13:59:10 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #html-xml
13:59:10 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/06/28-html-xml-irc
13:59:16 <Norm> zakim, list conferences
13:59:16 <Zakim> I see Team_(wf)13:01Z, SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM, Team_(mediaann)07:00Z, UW_WebTVIG(Home Net)10:00AM active
13:59:18 <Zakim> also scheduled at this time are T&S_XMLSEC()10:00AM, VB_VBWG()10:00AM, Team_(RevCadence)9:00AM, XML_(TAG TF)10:00AM, WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)9:00AM, TAG_(AWWSW)9:00AM, IA_Team()10:00AM,
13:59:20 <Zakim> ... Team_(MEET)10:00AM, INC_SSN()9:00AM, MWI_BPWG()9:30AM
13:59:32 <Norm> zakim, this will be xml_(tag tf)
13:59:32 <Zakim> ok, Norm; I see XML_(TAG TF)10:00AM scheduled to start in 1 minute
14:00:18 <Zakim> XML_(TAG TF)10:00AM has now started
14:00:25 <Zakim> +John_Cowan
14:00:29 <jcowan> jcowan has joined #html-xml
14:00:53 <Norm> zakim, what's the passcode?
14:00:53 <Zakim> the conference code is 9483 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), Norm
14:01:13 <Zakim> +Norm
14:01:20 <Norm> zakim, who's here?
14:01:20 <Zakim> On the phone I see John_Cowan, Norm
14:01:21 <Zakim> On IRC I see jcowan, RRSAgent, Zakim, Norm, anne, hober, hsivonen
14:01:27 <Norm> Meeting: HTML/XML Task Force
14:01:27 <Norm> Date: 28 June 2011
14:01:27 <Norm> Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2010/html-xml/2011/06/28-agenda
14:01:27 <Norm> Meeting: 9
14:01:27 <Norm> Chair: Norm
14:01:27 <Norm> Scribe: Norm
14:01:29 <Norm> ScribeNick: Norm
14:01:33 <Norm> Regrets: Noah
14:02:03 <hsivonen> Norm, it's not the announced time yet!
14:02:09 <hsivonen> oh well, I'll call in now
14:02:22 <Norm> Oh, crap. Did I forget to adjust for DST in the agenda.
14:02:24 <Norm> fsck me
14:02:32 <hsivonen> yeah, DST for the lose
14:03:35 <Norm> damn it. hey, the agenda still says EST, so... :-P
14:03:40 <Zakim> +??P29
14:03:57 <jcowan> Zakim: P29 is hsivonen
14:04:23 <Norm> anne, are you watching IRC?
14:04:37 <Zakim> +Mike_Champion
14:04:58 <Zakim> + +1.858.246.aaaa
14:05:00 <anne> oops, I can dial in now
14:06:32 <Norm> thanks, anne. I borked the time
14:07:22 <Norm> it's 9483
14:07:31 <jcowan> poor Norm
14:07:43 <Norm> oh dear lord
14:07:47 <Zakim> +??P36
14:08:14 <Norm> zakim, ??p36 is anne
14:08:14 <Zakim> +anne; got it
14:08:30 <Norm> zakim, who's here?
14:08:30 <Zakim> On the phone I see John_Cowan, Norm, ??P29, Mike_Champion, +1.858.246.aaaa, anne
14:08:32 <Zakim> On IRC I see jcowan, RRSAgent, Zakim, Norm, anne, hober, hsivonen
14:09:01 <Norm> zakim, ??p29 is Bob_Leif
14:09:01 <Zakim> +Bob_Leif; got it
14:09:36 <Norm> Present: John, Norm, Mike, Anne, Bob, Henri
14:09:39 <Norm> Regrets: Noah
14:10:12 <Norm> Norm apologizes for the long delay
14:10:22 <Norm> Topic: Accept this agenda?
14:10:22 <Norm> -> http://www.w3.org/2010/html-xml/2011/06/28-agenda
14:10:26 <Norm> Accepted.
14:10:39 <Zakim> -anne
14:11:02 <Zakim> +??P36
14:11:13 <anne> Zakim, ??P36 is me
14:11:13 <Zakim> +anne; got it
14:11:16 <Norm> Topic: Accept minutes from the previous meeting?
14:11:16 <Norm> -> http://www.w3.org/2010/html-xml/2011/03/08-minutes
14:11:36 <Norm> Accepted.
14:12:18 <Norm> Topic: Next meeting
14:12:40 <Norm> Topic: Next meeting: 12 July 2011 (in two weeks)
14:12:42 <Norm> Accepted.
14:12:56 <Norm> Topic: Review of comments
14:13:07 <Norm> -> http://www.w3.org/2010/html-xml/2011/06/comments/
14:13:37 <Norm> Norm: I closed comment 001 as it wasn't really a comment.
14:13:58 <Norm> Topic: Comment 002 from David Carlisle
14:14:24 <Norm> Norm: I think these are all editorial and am happy to accept them. Any disagreement?
14:14:27 <Norm> None heard:
14:14:44 <Norm> Topic: Comment 003 from Julian Reschke
14:15:27 <Norm> Norm: I'm of two minds on this one. I think of XML as having a DTD language and a set of vocabularies.
14:15:57 <Norm> Henri: I think Julian's point is well taken, I suggest we call it a framework.
14:17:09 <Norm> Norm: I'm happy to take that as editorial direction and make a stab at it.
14:17:15 <Norm> Norm: Any objections?
14:17:16 <Norm> None heard.
14:17:29 <Norm> Topic: Comment 004 from Noah Mendelsohn
14:17:35 <Norm> Norm: Isn't really acomment...
14:17:54 <Norm> Topic: Comment 005 from Robin Berjon
14:18:55 <Norm> -> http://www.w3.org/2010/html-xml/2011/06/comments/#C005
14:19:24 <Norm> Norm: The first two are editorial.
14:19:44 <Norm> Norm: Robin suggests we just say "polyglot has limited applicability"
14:20:03 <Norm> Henri: I think Robin's comments all make sense.
14:20:21 <Norm> ...I'd say that the the parser doesn't actually guarantee that the output is valid, only that it's well defined.
14:20:29 <Norm> John: Tagsoup is the same way.
14:22:08 <Norm> Norm: Ok, if there's general agreement about Robin's comments, I'll attempt to address them all.
14:22:22 <Norm> Norm: Any objections?
14:22:26 <Norm> None heard.
14:22:55 <Norm> Topic: Comment 006 from Henri Sivonen
14:23:44 <Norm> Henri: The first comment is about the fact that the draft is misleading. It doesn't "just work". It's way overoptimistic. There are issues with, for example, empty tags.
14:24:23 <Norm> Norm: Perhaps I overstated the case. I'll try to soften that statement. Or at least make it more accurate.
14:24:45 <Norm> Henri: I suggest just removing the paragraph.
14:25:02 <Norm> Norm; That looks reasonable to me.
14:25:18 <Norm> Henri: The substance of my next comment matches the substance of one of Robin's.
14:25:48 <Norm> Norm: Ok, I'll try to fix that as well.
14:26:51 <Norm> Henri: My next comment is about interfacing subsystems. Using the HTML parser when you have XHTML5 in a larger document is just weird. I would assume that you wouldn't clip anything out and hand it to an HTML5 parser. You'd pass the parsed object model around, not the text.
14:27:03 <Norm> ...I don't think the HTML5 parser needs to be involved in any way.
14:28:27 <Norm> Henri: And then there's something about MIME and such and I think that steps outside the scope of using an XML document as a container.
14:28:33 <Norm> ...It seems out-of-place.
14:29:02 <Norm> Norm: That was explicitly called out as one of the possible solutions when we were considering the use case.
14:29:16 <Norm> Henri: What the document says about the script tag is factually incorrect.
14:29:24 <Norm> ...what you get in the DOM is not escaped in any way.
14:29:53 <Norm> Norm: Yes, thats's a totally misleading statement. I'll fix that.
14:30:16 <Norm> Norm: Any other questions or comments about Henri's comments?
14:30:18 <Norm> None heard.
14:30:30 <Norm> Topic: Comment 007 from Kurt Cagle
14:31:11 <Norm> Norm: I think this is about the same paragraph Robin and Henri commented on.
14:31:48 <Norm> Norm: Does anyone have any suggestions for the illustration Kurt suggests?
14:32:01 <Norm> None heard.
14:32:12 <Yves> Yves has joined #html-xml
14:32:24 <Norm> Henri: I think there's a slippery slope towards rewriting the polyglot guide if we go that direction.
14:32:42 <Norm> ...I think we can provide some examples without trying to be exhaustive.
14:32:52 <Norm> Bob expresses a desire for some examples.
14:33:28 <Norm> Yeah, sorry Yves, I borked the agenda because of DST
14:33:44 <Norm> Topic: Comment 008 from Noah Mendelsohn
14:35:16 <Norm> Norm: I think Noah and John have both observed that making XML "more forgiving of errors" is a harder problem than the draft suggests.
14:35:26 <Zakim> -John_Cowan
14:35:44 <Norm> Norm: I'll try to improve that.
14:36:42 <Norm> Topic: Any other business?
14:37:36 <Norm> Adjourned.
14:37:47 <Zakim> -Mike_Champion
14:37:56 <Zakim> -Bob_Leif
14:37:57 <anne> anne has left #html-xml
14:37:58 <Zakim> - +1.858.246.aaaa
14:37:58 <Zakim> -Norm
14:38:05 <Zakim> -anne
14:38:06 <Zakim> XML_(TAG TF)10:00AM has ended
14:38:07 <Norm> rrsagent, set logs world-visible
14:38:08 <Zakim> Attendees were John_Cowan, Norm, Mike_Champion, +1.858.246.aaaa, anne, Bob_Leif
14:38:11 <Norm> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:38:11 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/06/28-html-xml-minutes.html Norm
14:38:11 <anne> anne has joined #html-xml
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