15:30:31 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #text
15:30:31 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/06/20-text-irc
15:30:48 <janina> zakim, this will be 2119
15:30:48 <Zakim> ok, janina; I see WAI_PF(Text)11:30AM scheduled to start now
15:30:58 <janina> agenda+ Action item check
15:30:58 <janina> agenda+ Any updates from on-list discussion of longdesc counter-proposal
15:30:58 <janina> agenda+ Status check on other text alternative re-open requests and change proposals: meta name=generator; role=presentation & alt;
15:30:58 <janina> agenda+ Other business?
15:35:27 <MichaelC> MichaelC has joined #text
15:35:33 <MichaelC> zakim, who's on the phone?
15:35:33 <Zakim> WAI_PF(Text)11:30AM has not yet started, MichaelC
15:35:34 <Zakim> On IRC I see MichaelC, RRSAgent, Zakim, janina
15:35:38 <MichaelC> zakim, this is 2119
15:35:38 <Zakim> ok, MichaelC; that matches WAI_PF(Text)11:30AM
15:35:41 <MichaelC> zakim, who's on the phone?
15:35:41 <Zakim> On the phone I see ??P9, John_Foliot, Michael_Cooper, ??P1
15:35:47 <MichaelC> zakim, ??P1 is Léonie_Watson
15:35:47 <Zakim> +Léonie_Watson; got it
15:35:52 <MichaelC> zakim, ??P9 is Janina_Sajka
15:35:52 <Zakim> +Janina_Sajka; got it
15:36:24 <Leonie> Leonie has joined #Text
15:40:01 <MichaelC> scribe: MichaelC
15:40:39 <MichaelC> zakim, next item
15:40:39 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Action item check" taken up [from janina]
15:41:35 <MichaelC> regrets: Laura_Carlson, Marco_Ranon
15:41:38 <MichaelC> agenda: http://fluidproject.org/about-us/contact-us/
15:41:41 <MichaelC> chair: Janina_Sajka
15:41:45 <MichaelC> rrsagent, make log public
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15:43:47 <janina> agenda+ Confirm actions, timelines, next meetings; identify next scribehttp://www.w3.org/2011/06/13-text-minutes.html#action06
15:44:17 <janina> http://www.w3.org/2011/06/13-text-minutes.html#action06
15:44:23 <richardschwerdtfe> richardschwerdtfe has joined #text
15:45:13 <MichaelC> actions from last week: http://www.w3.org/2011/06/13-text-minutes.html#ActionSummary
15:45:20 <janina> Status: Joshue O'Connor and Katie Haritos-Shea have taken up a Table Summary CP
15:45:43 <janina> http://www.w3.org/2011/06/13-text-minutes.html#action05
15:45:50 <MichaelC> [Done] ACTION: janina follow up with wendy or cynthia to see if willing to take on table summary
15:45:50 <Zakim> +Rich_Schwerdtfeger
15:46:01 <janina> Status: Done. A discussion has been ongoing on the HTML-WG list
15:46:18 <janina> We'll get to this shortly in this meeting.
15:46:23 <MichaelC> [Done] ACTION: janina will start the conversation thread with jason about the three concerns just above
15:46:38 <MichaelC> should be Jonas, not Jason
15:46:56 <janina> http://www.w3.org/2011/06/13-text-minutes.html#action02
15:47:17 <MichaelC> [Unknown] ACTION: jb ask Laura if int in helping review img element
15:47:21 <richardschwerdtfe> scribe: Rich
15:48:22 <richardschwerdtfe> janina: no status on this yet
15:48:35 <janina> Status: Unknown, don't know whether Judy followed up with Laura. We do need help on LC reviews.
15:49:04 <janina> http://www.w3.org/2011/06/13-text-minutes.html#action04
15:49:19 <richardschwerdtfe> janina: I believe this one is done
15:49:39 <janina> Status: Done. An email conversation has occured. At the moment no deadlines from HTML Chairs, but we're asked to get things in asap.
15:49:39 <MichaelC> scribeNick: richardschwerdtfe
15:51:36 <richardschwerdtfe> RESOLUTION: close this action as completed.
15:51:46 <janina> http://www.w3.org/2011/06/13-text-minutes.html#action01
15:52:01 <janina> Status: Unknown
15:52:38 <richardschwerdtfe> janina: this is on judy to contact andrew kirkpatrick to help with last call reviews on svg, img, and contenteditable for the spec. 
15:52:41 <Zakim> + +1.617.300.aaaa - is perhaps WGBH?
15:52:44 <janina> http://www.w3.org/2011/06/13-text-minutes.html#action07
15:53:52 <richardschwerdtfe> Rich: changing this would require ARIA to go back to last call
15:54:36 <richardschwerdtfe> janina: in the UAIG, where we had alt="foo" and role-"presentation" we had a situation where it is NOT an error
15:54:55 <JF> JF has joined #text
15:55:05 <richardschwerdtfe> Rich: the example had to do with entering data in a filed with aria-required
15:55:35 <janina> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2011Jun/0139.html
15:55:36 <richardschwerdtfe> janina: I will find the example
15:56:33 <richardschwerdtfe> janina: we close this defect and we no longer have a bug on role="presentation" and alt="foo"
15:57:15 <richardschwerdtfe> http://www.w3.org/2011/06/14-pf-minutes.html#item12
15:57:23 <richardschwerdtfe> see the example by James Nurthen
15:58:01 <richardschwerdtfe> janina: we discussed this in the User Agent Implementation Guide for ARia
15:58:12 <richardschwerdtfe> <img alt="required" role="presentation"><input aria-required="true">
15:59:29 <richardschwerdtfe> jf: I still see a conflict
15:59:46 <MichaelC> rrsagent, make minutes
15:59:46 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/06/20-text-minutes.html MichaelC
16:00:06 <richardschwerdtfe> jf: this is an example where it is critical
16:00:46 <jfoliot> jfoliot has joined #text
16:02:04 <richardschwerdtfe> rich: aria-required states to the at that it is required
16:04:39 <richardschwerdtfe> rich: role="presentation" trumps alt in ARIA spec. 
16:05:22 <richardschwerdtfe> jf: I want a warning
16:05:32 <richardschwerdtfe> janina: even though we showed a valid use case
16:07:11 <richardschwerdtfe> jf: If we have alt="foo" and role="presentation" it is a warning. Do we do it in the accessibility test tools or in the HTML validation? 
16:09:03 <richardschwerdtfe> rich: I think this would be better placed in a web accessibility test tool vs. html validation. 
16:09:09 <richardschwerdtfe> jf: I agree
16:09:15 <richardschwerdtfe> Leonie: I agree
16:09:38 <richardschwerdtfe> Rich: How do we get this addressed in WCAG?
16:09:48 <richardschwerdtfe> JF: good question. This may be a PF issue
16:10:15 <richardschwerdtfe> janina: we need a technique
16:10:44 <richardschwerdtfe> Rich: I am supportive of checking this in a test tool
16:12:10 <richardschwerdtfe> Rich: Michael you want an action to take this back to WCAG 2? 
16:12:26 <richardschwerdtfe> Michael: we need an action for someone to create a technique?
16:13:17 <richardschwerdtfe> Action: jfoliot to create a technique for the WCAG 2 working group
16:14:30 <richardschwerdtfe> janina: the group should create a list of techniques that need to be created but not actually create them
16:15:09 <richardschwerdtfe> michael: If you want to pull John into the working group that does this that is fine but from a WCAG working group perspective they do not care
16:15:17 <richardschwerdtfe> jf: I will write this up in an email
16:15:50 <janina> http://www.w3.org/2011/06/13-text-minutes.html#action03
16:16:00 <richardschwerdtfe> rich: I have not done this yet
16:16:12 <richardschwerdtfe> rich: will do so however
16:16:39 <janina> zakim, next item
16:16:39 <Zakim> I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, janina
16:16:45 <janina> q?
16:16:51 <janina> ack ja
16:16:52 <richardschwerdtfe>  q?
16:16:54 <janina> q?
16:16:57 <janina> zakim, next item
16:16:57 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Any updates from on-list discussion of longdesc counter-proposal" taken up [from janina]
16:17:41 <richardschwerdtfe> janina: per my action item last week I did post to the HTML list. We will be look at the aria-based proposal using ARIA for this 
16:17:53 <richardschwerdtfe> janina: this was from Jonas
16:18:28 <richardschwerdtfe> janina: the proposal is that we leave "it" in and make it conforming?
16:18:45 <richardschwerdtfe> janina: are they adopting the proposal from Laura?
16:19:39 <richardschwerdtfe> janina: having all this work gone into enhancing longdesc people may not be willing to drop those changes in support of something that was available but obsolete
16:20:08 <richardschwerdtfe> jf: these are not just enhancements but they are identifications of deficiencies
16:20:29 <richardschwerdtfe> jf: these are things the browser could and should expose to non-impaired users
16:21:06 <richardschwerdtfe> jf: from an authoring perspective nothing has changed. we are specifying what user agents should be doing
16:21:30 <richardschwerdtfe> jf: I don't think that their is an appetite for obsolete but conforming
16:21:44 <richardschwerdtfe> s/their/there/
16:22:02 <richardschwerdtfe> janina: I am not sure what the it is ...
16:22:38 <richardschwerdtfe> jf: what do we benefit by making it conforming but obsolete
16:22:52 <richardschwerdtfe> rich: obsolete states that there is a better replacement
16:22:56 <richardschwerdtfe> jf: yes
16:23:14 <richardschwerdtfe> jf: we need the ability of the end user to consume or not consume
16:23:48 <richardschwerdtfe> jf: image maps, once you hit a region, you get the alt text
16:24:07 <richardschwerdtfe> jf: there is not place in HTML that addresses the user's being able to consume or not consume
16:24:25 <richardschwerdtfe> jf: ... the corporate logo
16:25:23 <richardschwerdtfe> jf: I don't see it would garner more support now since we have garnered interest in supporting longdesc
16:26:50 <richardschwerdtfe> janina: there is not steam behind Jonas proposal
16:27:43 <richardschwerdtfe> rich: we fixed the issues they were concerned about and now they still don't want it
16:29:02 <richardschwerdtfe> rich: put the proposal in and let them take their shot
16:35:35 <richardschwerdtfe> janina: we rconfirm our support of the change proposal on longdesc
16:36:19 <richardschwerdtfe> rich: when will the call for alternate proposals appear?
16:36:39 <richardschwerdtfe> janina: already done. the deadline is Saturday June 5
16:38:23 <richardschwerdtfe> janina: we will be pushing the chairs to move on this sooner rather than later
16:40:06 <janina> zakim, next item
16:40:06 <Zakim> agendum 3. "Status check on other text alternative re-open requests and change proposals: meta name=generator; role=presentation & alt;" taken up [from janina]
16:41:21 <richardschwerdtfe> jf: I had the Social Security CIO listing meeting at Stanford recently
16:41:46 <richardschwerdtfe> jf: meta generator: I will get with Steve this week
16:41:59 <richardschwerdtfe> jf: it is taking Leif's proposal to make sure it is cohesive
16:44:31 <richardschwerdtfe> topic: figcaption
16:44:45 <richardschwerdtfe> janina: the validator could help us test for links
16:44:59 <jfoliot> s/links/length
16:45:01 <richardschwerdtfe> janina: mike smith was amenable to that
16:45:08 <richardschwerdtfe>  thx
16:45:26 <richardschwerdtfe> janina: I will double check
16:45:38 <richardschwerdtfe> janina: we are making progress and can discuss on Thursday
16:46:01 <richardschwerdtfe> janina: any more on the alt decision
16:46:03 <richardschwerdtfe> jf: no
16:46:16 <richardschwerdtfe> jf: we are close to stopping the Monday calls
16:46:21 <richardschwerdtfe> janina: good
16:46:22 <janina> zakim, next item
16:46:22 <Zakim> agendum 4. "Other business?" taken up [from janina]
16:47:04 <richardschwerdtfe> janina: what would be helpful in filing a bug would be to supply emails with sets of examples showing examples - such as for figcaption
16:47:28 <richardschwerdtfe> janina: Jeff, judy said that you and she were looking at that
16:48:16 <richardschwerdtfe> janina: can we put together 6 examples of figcaption that are acceptable and that are not
16:48:23 <richardschwerdtfe> Jeff: sure
16:48:35 <richardschwerdtfe> Jeff: I will talk to Judy about this
16:49:25 <richardschwerdtfe> janina: Jeff, are you available on Wednesday for the media topic on the user experience when you come across 4-5 videos on the screeen and you have descriptions for each. 
16:49:33 <richardschwerdtfe> jeff: at 5:30 to 7?
16:49:44 <richardschwerdtfe> jf: we can put you at the top of the agenda
16:49:50 <richardschwerdtfe> Jeff: let me look into that tonight
16:50:10 <richardschwerdtfe> RRSAgent, make log public
16:50:16 <richardschwerdtfe> RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:50:16 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/06/20-text-minutes.html richardschwerdtfe
16:50:51 <richardschwerdtfe> meeting: HTML A11y Text subteam
16:50:59 <richardschwerdtfe> RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:50:59 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/06/20-text-minutes.html richardschwerdtfe
16:51:05 <Zakim> -Léonie_Watson
16:51:34 <Zakim> -WGBH?
16:51:35 <Zakim> -John_Foliot
16:52:27 <Zakim> -Michael_Cooper
16:52:29 <Zakim> -Janina_Sajka
17:02:36 <Zakim> -Rich_Schwerdtfeger
17:02:38 <Zakim> WAI_PF(Text)11:30AM has ended
17:02:40 <Zakim> Attendees were John_Foliot, Michael_Cooper, Léonie_Watson, Janina_Sajka, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, +1.617.300.aaaa
17:34:08 <MichaelC> MichaelC has joined #text