20:00:04 RRSAgent has joined #svg 20:00:04 logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/06/09-svg-irc 20:00:06 RRSAgent, make logs public 20:00:06 Zakim has joined #svg 20:00:08 Zakim, this will be GA_SVGWG 20:00:08 ok, trackbot, I see GA_SVGWG(SVG1)4:00PM already started 20:00:09 Meeting: SVG Working Group Teleconference 20:00:09 Date: 09 June 2011 20:00:09 + +1.206.675.aaaa 20:00:34 +??P5 20:00:37 Zakim, ??P5 is me 20:00:37 +heycam; got it 20:01:03 +Doug_Schepers 20:02:39 http://www.w3.org/News/2011#entry-9122 20:03:30 ChrisL has joined #svg 20:04:39 +ChrisL 20:08:13 Chair: Cameron 20:08:15 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2011AprJun/0137.html 20:08:34 ScribeNick: cabanier 20:10:37 CM: let's get started 20:10:37 topic: SVG 1.1 Second Edition 20:10:37 DS: did you catch the out of date recommendation? 20:10:49 s/recommendation/reference/ 20:10:57 CL: I did not. didn't think it was prudent to change 20:11:12 CL: can you still change? 20:11:20 DS: yes you can 20:11:35 can change in response to ac review comments 20:13:15 CM: I saw philippe mentioned our CSS2.0 reference, did you explain that to him? 20:13:16 CL: yes 20:14:24 CM: there are 4 weeks to comment and then will become recommended 20:15:20 there weren't too many people commenting. There is a culture where if people don't comment, they imply yes 20:15:34 don't panic if there are no comments but it would be better if people do 20:16:01 (that was doug schepers) 20:16:14 topic: Seattle F2F form 20:17:33 CM: form is supposed to be done at the end of the mont 20:17:52 CM: send a reminder to get topics for the venue 20:18:23 CM: one of the agenda items is the FX topics but we will wait until Vincent calls in 20:18:38 topic: CSS WG testing 20:18:40 http://www.w3.org/mid/4DDA7888.6030707@w3.org 20:20:07 public-test-infra@w3.org 20:20:43 DS: in the testing taskforce there is a consensus to use the stuff that Peter Linss has done for CSS 20:21:23 DS: he wrote a framework to aggregate the tests 20:22:19 the framework allows to run a subset of the tests. when running test you can run all tests or just a couple 20:23:15 DS: I want him to come talk to us because we feel strongly to have unified testing 20:23:28 CM: should one of us call in? 20:23:41 DS: I'll follow up with him 20:25:18 DS: he responded off-list that he wanted more information 20:26:22 action: shepazu to follow up with Peter Linss about testing 20:27:27 topic: Text layout 20:28:15 ds: we have to wait for Vincent to be here 20:28:37 CM: I made a recent proposal for positioning 20:28:58 CM: I didn't read Rik's email reply yet 20:29:11 RC: it seems that svg is trying to do two things at once 20:29:21 ... it's doing layout for you, but also wants to provide you with the ability to position glyphs yourself 20:29:26 ... it's a little bit the same thing with ligatures 20:29:38 ... it'll create ligatures for you, but then also wants to give you the ability with positioning not to create ligatures 20:29:42 ... so it seems a bit messy 20:29:56 ... I propose that maybe we should have a new type of text, more like pdf, specifying individual glyphs taht you want to use 20:29:59 ... so you can choose the ligatures 20:30:04 ... and you always specify glyph positions 20:30:14 ... and the existing will be automatically laid out text 20:30:17 sounds like a glyphlist rather than text - so would need an 'alt' for accessibility 20:30:20 ... and it can create ligatures on the fly for you 20:30:37 ... so people who want a simple interface can still have that, but people like us, who want more control over glyph selection and positioning can have that as well 20:31:48 q+ 20:32:17 CM: we may need to have glyph positioning 20:32:20 the interaction between altglyph and opentype layout tables is underspecified 20:32:21 s/positioning/indexing/ 20:32:47 CM: but we do have and 20:33:26 DS: do we have properties to control if ligatures are formed? 20:33:37 CSS3 has a way to disable discretionary ligatures 20:33:52 CM: true 20:34:15 CM: but, I don't think that turns of mandatory ones 20:34:18 DS: ok 20:34:50 CM: I'm not completely well versed in the area. 20:34:57 DS: seems like a pain 20:35:21 CL: I understand that the idea behind the 2 modes 20:36:09 CM: do we want 'abc' or indexes into the font file 20:36:16 CL: not sure 20:37:00 RC: going the PDF way might be very difficult 20:37:14 CM: not if just using glyph ids 20:37:18 RC: true 20:37:58 CM: SVG is not ideal for absolute position but there is a need for positioning on character based input. 20:38:12 CM: Rik do you have an opinion 20:38:32 RC: I was looking at it from absolute positioning 20:39:04 CM: we need to keep allowing positioning in the current SVG text 20:39:30 CM: and make it as accessible as possible 20:40:01 CL: one of the reasons that was added was for adding more complicated text on a path 20:40:26 RC: and every glyph could have its own matrix 20:40:37 CM: yes by specifiying a rotation 20:41:00 CM: maybe we should present this at the face-to-face 20:41:21 CM: I need to implement it anyway and I will start off with my proposal 20:41:33 CM: I will give more detail at the F2F 20:42:28 CM: for the use case of absolute positioning, we should try to support better and someone should start on a proposal 20:42:57 CM: rik, do you want to take this on? 20:43:22 RC: I will discuss with Vincent but Adobe's interested. 20:43:38 CM: using glyph indices is probably a good way 20:44:07 RC: using glyph indices requires you have the font 20:44:23 CM: I think that is reasonable. 20:44:51 CM: that the font is always there when you do absolute positioning 20:47:02 topic: FX taskforce 20:48:10 DS: want to discuss the CSS and SVG charters 20:48:24 CM: should we wait for vincent 20:48:50 DS: we'll talk about it via email 20:49:08 -ChrisL 20:49:09 -Doug_Schepers 20:49:31 RRSAgent make minutes 20:49:45 RSSAgent, make minutes 20:50:00 RRSAgent, make minutes 20:50:00 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/06/09-svg-minutes.html cabanier 20:50:57 http://www.w3.org/2011/06/09-svg-minutes.html,text 20:51:56 -heycam 20:52:31 - +1.206.675.aaaa 20:52:32 GA_SVGWG(SVG1)4:00PM has ended 20:52:33 Attendees were +1.206.675.aaaa, heycam, Doug_Schepers, ChrisL