13:59:18 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #rdfa
13:59:18 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/06/09-rdfa-irc
13:59:20 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
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13:59:22 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 7332
13:59:22 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFa()10:00AM scheduled to start in 1 minute
13:59:23 <trackbot> Meeting: RDF Web Applications Working Group Teleconference
13:59:23 <trackbot> Date: 09 June 2011
14:00:22 <MacTed> MacTed has joined #rdfa
14:00:29 <Zakim> SW_RDFa()10:00AM has now started
14:00:30 <Zakim> + +44.123.456.aaaa
14:00:32 <Zakim> + +1.612.217.aabb
14:00:36 <Zakim> - +1.612.217.aabb
14:00:38 <Zakim> + +1.612.217.aabb
14:00:39 <Benjamin> zakim, I am aaaa
14:00:39 <Zakim> +Benjamin; got it
14:00:40 <ShaneM> zakim, aabb is ShaneM
14:00:40 <Zakim> +ShaneM; got it
14:00:59 <Zakim> + +1.781.273.aacc
14:01:03 <MacTed> Zakim, code?
14:01:03 <Zakim> the conference code is 7332 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), MacTed
14:01:06 <Zakim> +??P17
14:01:12 <manu> zakim, I am ??P17
14:01:12 <Zakim> +manu; got it
14:01:21 <MacTed> Zakim, aacc is OpenLink_Software
14:01:21 <Zakim> +OpenLink_Software; got it
14:01:25 <MacTed> Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me
14:01:25 <Zakim> +MacTed; got it
14:01:27 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me
14:01:27 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted
14:01:40 <manu> zakim, who is on the call?
14:01:40 <Zakim> On the phone I see Benjamin, ShaneM, MacTed (muted), manu
14:02:15 <manu> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdfa-wg/2011Jun/0010.html
14:02:25 <manu> Chair: manu
14:02:28 <manu> Scribe: Benjamin
14:02:34 <manu> scribenick: Benjamin
14:06:21 <manu> Regrets: Ivan
14:06:30 <Steven> zakim, dial steven-617
14:06:30 <Zakim> ok, Steven; the call is being made
14:06:32 <Zakim> +Steven
14:06:34 <Benjamin> Topic: schema.org announcement findings/effects
14:06:44 <Steven> Sorry for being late
14:06:50 <MacTed> Zakim, unmute me
14:06:50 <Zakim> MacTed should no longer be muted
14:07:14 <Benjamin> manu: anything new about schema.org?
14:07:14 <manu> http://schema.org/
14:08:06 <manu> http://schema.org/docs/schemas.html
14:08:10 <Benjamin> manu: google microsoft and yahoo have launched schema.org. It is a combination of syntax describtion (microdata) and vocabularies search engines would be interested in.
14:09:22 <Benjamin> manu: they intend to create a shared markup and data vocabulary and make publishers easy to decide whhich vocabulary to use. They thing mircodata is the best balance 
14:10:08 <Benjamin> manu: people were asking, why is Googling forcing this choice of use of vocabulary and markup.
14:10:51 <Benjamin> ... Google sais to provide legacy support for RDFa, but for latest features Microdata is necessary
14:11:14 <Benjamin> Steven: Other WorkingGroups and even TimBl is obset about this.
14:11:55 <ShaneM> q+ to be devils advocate
14:12:19 <manu> ack ShaneM
14:12:22 <Zakim> ShaneM, you wanted to be devils advocate
14:12:30 <Benjamin> ShaneM: There is a lot of vobabulary that already exists. If they map schema.org to it, that's fine
14:13:25 <manu> q+ to elaborate
14:14:25 <Benjamin> Shane: Google should use foaf for example.
14:15:46 <Benjamin> manu: Three search engines agree on supporting a single vocabulary in a specific markup. This is a  great use case for them.
14:16:05 <ShaneM> q+ I forgot be be devils advocate
14:16:14 <ShaneM> q+ to say I forgot to be devils advocate
14:17:02 <Benjamin> manu: RDFa content besides microdata is not valid, hence this anouncement will affect that RDFa providers such as Drupal will exchange markup generation form RDFa to microdata.
14:19:26 <manu> ack manu
14:19:26 <Zakim> manu, you wanted to elaborate
14:19:30 <manu> ack shaneM
14:19:30 <Zakim> ShaneM, you wanted to say I forgot to be devils advocate
14:19:31 <MacTed> q+
14:20:53 <Benjamin> Shane: Is this anouncement really a bad thing for the Semantic Web? Wouldn't it not be better to support the Microdata Community in handling semantic data.
14:21:23 <manu> ack MacTed
14:21:41 <manu> (Notes that that is Shane's Devil's advocate position)
14:22:19 <manu> q+ to disagree about Drupal case
14:23:51 <manu> Ted: There are going to be many plugins that are going to support Microdata because of this - that's fine, it's not entirely a bad thing - but they're shooting themselves in the foot wrt the bigger picture.
14:23:55 <manu> ack manu
14:23:55 <Zakim> manu, you wanted to disagree about Drupal case
14:25:01 <Benjamin> manu: Drupal has to be responsive, so they will exchange RDFa with microdata
14:26:42 <Benjamin> ted: When the google bot hits your side, it identifies himself, so that the server can provide the data in a form the bot wants to see.
14:28:05 <Benjamin> manu: we should conclude that schema.org really affects us so that we should not ignore it.
14:30:28 <Benjamin> manu: schema.org sais a couple of things like: You can't use RDFa and Microdata on the same page. They commented it as mistake.
14:30:35 <Benjamin> manu: so here we are fine
14:31:19 <Benjamin> manu: Second: Why don't Search Engines just RDFa on schema.org. because the technology is already there.
14:31:35 <manu> http://schema.rdfs.org/
14:31:48 <Benjamin> ... hence, we could provide examples in RDFa and microdata.
14:32:25 <Benjamin> ... Michael hausenblas, Richard Cyganiak and folks from DERI already created a mapping from rdfs.org to schema.org
14:32:48 <Benjamin> ... so we can map it similar on e.g., rdfa.org
15:02:35 <Benjamin> manu: we put the candidate rec on hold for now and try Google to support RDFa 1.1
15:02:52 <Zakim> -ShaneM
15:02:54 <Zakim> -manu
15:02:55 <Zakim> -Steven
15:02:57 <Zakim> -MacTed
15:02:58 <Zakim> -Benjamin
15:02:58 <Zakim> SW_RDFa()10:00AM has ended
15:03:00 <Zakim> Attendees were +44.123.456.aaaa, +1.612.217.aabb, Benjamin, ShaneM, +1.781.273.aacc, manu, MacTed, Steven
15:48:59 <danbri> in an rdfa profile, could a local term map to *two* URIs? 
15:49:10 <danbri> eg. 'member' could expand to both foaf:member AND mo:member triples?
15:49:42 <danbri> (or is that putting too much smarts into the profile layer...? could just use rdfs/owl for that stuff)
15:58:48 <manu> too much smarts in profile layer would be required to do that
15:58:56 <manu> we're trying to keep this stuff as simple as we can.
16:01:40 <danbri> what about datatypes?
16:02:13 <danbri> writing <div> ... I am <span property="age" datatype="xsd:integer">39</span> ...</div> is pretty awful
16:02:35 <danbri> (which is why i don't set a formal range on foaf:age yet; we just use strings and document in prose that it's a number
16:02:44 <danbri> if the profile could add in the datatyping, that would be sweet
16:40:10 <ShaneM> thats actually really clever.
16:40:27 <ShaneM> if there were a way to do it.  it would SOLVE the URI as content thing too.   
16:41:09 <ShaneM> just define in the profile that there is a default datatype for values associated with a declared term?
16:41:19 <ShaneM> (overridable with @datatype of course)
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18:52:39 <manu> danbri, ShaneM: This is exactly what we do in JSON-LD, by the way: http://json-ld.org/spec/ED/20110507/#type-coercion
18:52:50 <manu> We call it Type Coercion
20:20:13 <danbri> yep, type coercion seems much same
20:20:34 <danbri> do the rdfa1.1 parsers out there (ivans?) handle profile?
20:21:14 <danbri> btw found this nice ancient doc - http://www.w3.org/Architecture/NOTE-link.html