IRC log of lld on 2011-06-09

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:53:05 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #lld
13:53:05 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/06/09-lld-irc
13:53:19 [tbaker]
rrsagent, bookmark
13:53:19 [RRSAgent]
See http://www.w3.org/2011/06/09-lld-irc#T13-53-19
13:53:31 [tbaker]
zakim, this will be lld
13:53:31 [Zakim]
ok, tbaker; I see INC_LLDXG()10:00AM scheduled to start in 7 minutes
13:53:39 [tbaker]
Meeting: LLD XG
13:53:43 [tbaker]
Chair: Tom
13:53:57 [tbaker]
rrsagent, please make record public
13:54:16 [emma]
emma has joined #lld
13:54:21 [tbaker]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2011Jun/0007.html
13:54:37 [tbaker]
Previous: http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/05/26-lld-minutes.html
13:55:31 [jeff_]
jeff_ has joined #lld
13:55:42 [tbaker]
Regrets: Kefo, Kim, Lars
13:56:03 [tbaker]
Regrets+ Peter, Jodi
13:58:35 [Zakim]
INC_LLDXG()10:00AM has now started
13:58:40 [antoine]
antoine has joined #lld
13:58:42 [Zakim]
+[LC]
13:58:48 [edsu]
zakim, [LC] is edsu
13:58:48 [Zakim]
+edsu; got it
13:59:00 [ww]
ww has joined #lld
13:59:12 [Zakim]
+ +1.614.764.aaaa
13:59:16 [Zakim]
+??P9
13:59:20 [jeff_]
zakim, aaaa is me
13:59:20 [Zakim]
+jeff_; got it
13:59:28 [Zakim]
+??P0
13:59:40 [tbaker]
zakim, ??p9 is tbaker
13:59:41 [Zakim]
+tbaker; got it
13:59:54 [tbaker]
zakim, ??P0 is kcoyle
13:59:56 [Zakim]
+kcoyle; got it
14:00:03 [tbaker]
zakim, who is on the call?
14:00:03 [Zakim]
On the phone I see edsu, jeff_, tbaker, kcoyle
14:00:34 [Zakim]
+??P16
14:00:42 [antoine]
zakim, ??P16 is me
14:00:42 [Zakim]
+antoine; got it
14:01:10 [Zakim]
+ +33.1.44.78.aabb
14:01:10 [GordonD]
GordonD has joined #lld
14:01:27 [tbaker]
zakim, aabb is emma
14:01:28 [Zakim]
+emma; got it
14:01:45 [emma_]
emma_ has joined #lld
14:02:48 [Zakim]
+??P22
14:03:16 [jeff_]
zakim, mute me
14:03:16 [Zakim]
jeff_ should now be muted
14:03:22 [Zakim]
+??P24
14:03:25 [Zakim]
+[LC]
14:03:28 [emma_]
rrsagent, minutes ?
14:03:28 [RRSAgent]
I'm logging. Sorry, nothing found for 'minutes '
14:03:30 [ww]
Zakim, ??P24 is me
14:03:30 [Zakim]
+ww; got it
14:03:40 [ww]
zakim, mute me please
14:03:40 [Zakim]
ww should now be muted
14:03:44 [tbaker]
zakim, who is on the call?
14:03:44 [Zakim]
On the phone I see edsu, jeff_ (muted), tbaker, kcoyle, antoine, emma, ??P22, ww (muted), [LC]
14:03:56 [emma_]
zakim, ?P22 is GordonD
14:03:56 [Zakim]
sorry, emma_, I do not recognize a party named '?P22'
14:04:03 [tbaker]
zakim, ??P22 is probably GordonD
14:04:03 [Zakim]
+GordonD?; got it
14:04:08 [emma_]
zakim, ??P22 is GordonD
14:04:08 [Zakim]
I already had ??P22 as GordonD?, emma_
14:04:17 [rayd_]
rayd_ has joined #lld
14:06:02 [tbaker]
Scribe: rayd_
14:06:07 [tbaker]
Scribenick: rayd_
14:06:23 [rayd_]
Topic: administrative
14:06:39 [rayd_]
no call last week, propose accept may 26 minutes
14:06:52 [rayd_]
minutes accepted
14:07:09 [rayd_]
report from summit
14:08:31 [rayd_]
(sorry i missed last minute or so phone trouble, ok now)
14:08:35 [tbaker]
Karen: LOD-LAM was barcamp-style. Rights. Technical issues.
14:09:21 [rayd_]
antoine: exchanging pointers to tools, great stuff, many more people than expected
14:10:09 [rayd_]
presented stuff from our group, lots of interest, noted about future work,
14:10:27 [rayd_]
talk about extending from incubator to wg, not much reaction to that
14:10:41 [rayd_]
tom
14:11:05 [rayd_]
participated in discussions on vacabularies, approches to preservation of rdf vocabs
14:11:56 [rayd_]
alignments, have alingment issues buble up; need for networking among vocab maintainers, best practices
14:12:31 [rayd_]
open source tools for producing vocabularies; very good discussion. Expecting a repor t in next couple months.
14:13:11 [rayd_]
too short. alot of people coming from different perspectives, brainsttorming
14:13:15 [edsu]
+q
14:13:27 [rayd_]
topic: final report
14:13:58 [rayd_]
tom: charter has been extended till sept. Emanuelle will talk about strategy, next call
14:14:57 [emma_]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2011Jun/0002.html
14:15:23 [rayd_]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2011Jun/0002.html ?
14:16:04 [rayd_]
recruiting reviewers from the group
14:16:28 [rayd_]
sent around notes to people who can't attend calls regularly and gotten good response
14:16:42 [antoine]
q+
14:16:55 [rayd_]
we'll be seeing reviews next week or two
14:17:51 [rayd_]
benefits, recommendations, issues key three sections, go out for comments from general public
14:18:03 [rayd_]
then have survey sections reviewed by this group
14:18:26 [rayd_]
need to recruit four reviewers from this call
14:18:54 [rayd_]
two report sections, 3-4 pages each; vocab data sets, technologies.
14:19:26 [tbaker]
ack edsu
14:19:29 [rayd_]
ed
14:20:09 [rayd_]
curious about whether conference was one-time or ongoing
14:20:37 [tbaker]
ack antoine
14:20:39 [rayd_]
no concrete plans for followup meeting
14:21:09 [rayd_]
antoine
14:21:21 [rayd_]
there were some informal proposals for followup.
14:21:32 [rayd_]
antoine - organization of reviews
14:22:03 [rayd_]
review to try to include as much as possible those who haven't been involved in writing process
14:22:18 [antoine]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2011May/0051.html
14:23:08 [emma_]
q+
14:23:09 [kcoyle]
q+
14:23:17 [tbaker]
ack emma
14:23:28 [rayd_]
continue the action for one week and if nothing happens drop it (what action?)
14:23:50 [rayd_]
emanuelle - shouldn't invest too much effort in this.
14:23:55 [tbaker]
ACTION: Antoine and Emmanuelle to talk about strategies for getting comments at next call [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/05/19-lld-minutes.html#action15]
14:23:58 [tbaker]
--continues
14:24:02 [tbaker]
ack kcoyle
14:24:42 [rayd_]
karen - idea of having a place where people can comment, that was for public review
14:25:08 [rayd_]
need to announce a public review period. broader than review of individual sections. need stragegy
14:25:35 [rayd_]
tom - proposing release individual sections june 10, 17 24
14:26:04 [rayd_]
e.g. comments june 10-july 10
14:26:49 [rayd_]
tom propose posting on those three separate weeks. no special call for review of survey oriented sections.
14:27:35 [rayd_]
start review period tomorrow to july 10, will give us july 10 to early aug then move text
14:27:51 [rayd_]
..... from wiki to html using publ rules. don't leave to last minute
14:28:23 [rayd_]
tight schedule
14:28:56 [rayd_]
karen - just posting on our mailing list wont reach community. lots of important people not on our list
14:29:01 [antoine]
+1
14:29:09 [rayd_]
...... how to do PR on this
14:29:28 [ww]
+1 (and suggest send out to many different relevant lists)
14:29:59 [rayd_]
tom - agree to general framework incl schedule and then come up with a PR plan
14:30:09 [rayd_]
PR
14:31:29 [rayd_]
antoine - more thanpr, need to explicitly solicit comments
14:31:49 [kcoyle]
if they aren't on lld list, they will need another email address to send to
14:32:04 [tbaker]
Antoine: Emma has dug up list we used for soliciting use cases - list of mailing lists.
14:32:37 [rayd_]
what email to send comments to? Antoine: public list
14:32:56 [rayd_]
actions
14:33:19 [antoine]
q+
14:33:37 [rayd_]
1. on three chairs come up with a draft announcement by Monday. msg to community inviting comments
14:34:21 [rayd_]
(and can email chairs directly but that could be difficult to manage)
14:34:57 [rayd_]
antoine - range of the review period. july 10 may be too early
14:36:04 [rayd_]
emanuelle - should we first finish internal review before public
14:36:34 [ww]
q+
14:36:56 [tbaker]
ack antoine
14:37:11 [rayd_]
i.e. review from members will change content so we should not have public reviewing before we edit the content based on member review
14:37:30 [rayd_]
antoine - can't wait
14:38:12 [rayd_]
can't ask for public review with period of 2 weeks
14:38:55 [rayd_]
antoine - review period until july 20
14:40:04 [rayd_]
need to send email before next call; draft note to community about comment period, perhaps discuss on next call
14:40:40 [tbaker]
ack ACTION: Co-chairs to draft message to the community about review between 16 June and 20 July - post before next call, on 16 June
14:40:41 [rayd_]
review period begins June 16
14:40:51 [tbaker]
ACTION: Co-chairs to draft message to the community about review between 16 June and 20 July - post before next call, on 16 June
14:40:59 [antoine]
q?
14:41:02 [ww]
zakim, unmute me
14:41:02 [Zakim]
ww should no longer be muted
14:41:05 [tbaker]
ack ww
14:42:12 [antoine]
rrsagent, please draft minutes
14:42:12 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/06/09-lld-minutes.html antoine
14:42:14 [rayd_]
william - schema.org, rdfa. should we note that we have taken note
14:43:11 [antoine]
Regrets+ Michael
14:43:32 [rayd_]
somewhere in the report schema.org to be acknowledged
14:43:52 [jeff_]
I can help
14:43:55 [rayd_]
william to write something up
14:43:56 [antoine]
a thread has been started: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-lld/2011Jun/0004.html
14:44:06 [edsu]
+1 for mentioning microdata and schema.org
14:44:40 [ww]
zakim, mute me
14:44:40 [Zakim]
ww should now be muted
14:44:43 [jeff_]
I'm here
14:44:47 [rayd_]
microdata or rdfa?
14:45:39 [tbaker]
ACTION: Jeff and William to propose text on microdata and schema.org - where in the report it should be discussed
14:46:27 [edsu]
+1 for evolving it
14:46:35 [rayd_]
should wiki text remain frozen during comment period
14:46:36 [GordonD]
+1 allow wiki text to evolve (nothing stands still)
14:46:43 [antoine]
+. we just need to mention that in the call for review
14:46:54 [edsu]
antoine: good idea
14:47:12 [kcoyle]
maybe we should just avoid major revisions, but allow clarification of text
14:47:20 [antoine]
+1
14:48:01 [rayd_]
agree with methodology of releasing sections on three separate dates? (tom)
14:48:27 [kcoyle]
q+
14:48:45 [tbaker]
ack kcoyle
14:49:06 [rayd_]
people will be more inclined to comment if we break it into peices because the whole thing is overwhelmingly long
14:49:31 [rayd_]
karen - however we urge people to also look at the whole, to see if something is missing
14:50:49 [rayd_]
similar note to that effect in each of the three threads
14:51:10 [rayd_]
and a reminder as well in the wiki
14:51:18 [antoine]
kcoyle++
14:52:08 [rayd_]
benefits - karen
14:52:18 [tbaker]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2011Jun/0002.html
14:55:06 [antoine]
q+
14:55:19 [rayd_]
karen - for other lists, maybe one section per list. how do we handle that. tricky.
14:57:14 [rayd_]
if discussion is generated on separate lists, some of that discussion will be lost. Need to get discussion focussed to publid lld list
14:57:57 [tbaker]
ack antoine
14:58:26 [rayd_]
antoine - just one post.
15:00:05 [GordonD]
Suggest whoever forwards review email to another list tries to feed-back local comments to public lld list
15:00:46 [rayd_]
will continue to recruit volunteers, next call
15:01:43 [Zakim]
-GordonD?
15:01:43 [GordonD]
I can review Relevant technologies - I've had nothing to do with this section so far, so can approach with some objectivity
15:01:58 [antoine]
GordonD++
15:02:01 [GordonD]
I just got cut-off from Skype, won't try to reconnect
15:02:09 [rayd_]
tom - particularly need reviewer for use case section
15:03:02 [kcoyle]
maybe jodi, she did a lot of work with use cases?
15:03:23 [antoine]
well she has already an action on that :-)
15:04:25 [tbaker]
ACTION: Gordon to review Relevant Technologies
15:04:29 [rayd_]
gordon to review relevant technologies
15:04:38 [Zakim]
-[LC]
15:04:40 [Zakim]
-kcoyle
15:04:40 [Zakim]
-jeff_
15:04:42 [Zakim]
-ww
15:04:46 [antoine]
rrsagent, please list attendees
15:04:46 [RRSAgent]
I'm logging. I don't understand 'please list attendees', antoine. Try /msg RRSAgent help
15:04:46 [edsu]
ww: relevant technologies seems like a good spot for microdata/schema.org discussion
15:04:48 [jeff_]
jeff_ has left #lld
15:04:53 [edsu]
oops, too late :)
15:04:53 [ww]
edsu: agreed
15:05:02 [edsu]
oh, there you are :)
15:05:04 [antoine]
zakim, please list attendees
15:05:04 [Zakim]
As of this point the attendees have been edsu, +1.614.764.aaaa, jeff_, tbaker, kcoyle, antoine, +33.1.44.78.aabb, emma, [LC], ww, GordonD?
15:05:08 [Zakim]
-edsu
15:05:36 [antoine]
rrsagent, please draft minutes
15:05:36 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/06/09-lld-minutes.html antoine
15:06:02 [antoine]
zakim, who is here?
15:06:02 [Zakim]
On the phone I see tbaker, antoine, emma
15:06:39 [antoine]
ww, are u still here?
15:06:51 [ww]
antoine: yes
15:07:06 [antoine]
@ww: are u happy with the answers to Ed?
15:07:29 [ww]
edsu: it also bears on the benefits though - it isn't as clear that rdfa is good for SEO...
15:07:44 [ww]
antoine: minute...
15:07:53 [antoine]
ww: ok :-)
15:07:58 [Zakim]
-tbaker
15:08:03 [Zakim]
-emma
15:08:03 [Zakim]
-antoine
15:08:04 [Zakim]
INC_LLDXG()10:00AM has ended
15:08:05 [Zakim]
Attendees were edsu, +1.614.764.aaaa, jeff_, tbaker, kcoyle, antoine, +33.1.44.78.aabb, emma, [LC], ww, GordonD?
15:08:12 [antoine]
zakim, bye
15:08:12 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #lld
15:08:16 [antoine]
rrsagent, bye
15:08:16 [RRSAgent]
I see 4 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2011/06/09-lld-actions.rdf :
15:08:16 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Antoine and Emmanuelle to talk about strategies for getting comments at next call [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/05/19-lld-minutes.html#action15] [1]
15:08:16 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/06/09-lld-irc#T14-23-55
15:08:16 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Co-chairs to draft message to the community about review between 16 June and 20 July - post before next call, on 16 June [2]
15:08:16 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/06/09-lld-irc#T14-40-51
15:08:16 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Jeff and William to propose text on microdata and schema.org - where in the report it should be discussed [3]
15:08:16 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/06/09-lld-irc#T14-45-39
15:08:16 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Gordon to review Relevant Technologies [4]
15:08:16 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/06/09-lld-irc#T15-04-25
15:08:18 [edsu]
ww: i dunno, they are still planning on supporting rdfa
15:08:43 [edsu]
ww: i don't think we should say anything at this point about what the big search engines will do in the future