13:53:05 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #lld
13:53:05 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/06/09-lld-irc
13:53:19 <tbaker> rrsagent, bookmark
13:53:19 <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2011/06/09-lld-irc#T13-53-19
13:53:31 <tbaker> zakim, this will be lld
13:53:31 <Zakim> ok, tbaker; I see INC_LLDXG()10:00AM scheduled to start in 7 minutes
13:53:39 <tbaker> Meeting: LLD XG
13:53:43 <tbaker> Chair: Tom
13:53:57 <tbaker> rrsagent, please make record public
13:54:16 <emma> emma has joined #lld
13:54:21 <tbaker> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2011Jun/0007.html
13:54:37 <tbaker> Previous: http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/05/26-lld-minutes.html
13:55:31 <jeff_> jeff_ has joined #lld
13:55:42 <tbaker> Regrets: Kefo, Kim, Lars
13:56:03 <tbaker> Regrets+ Peter, Jodi
13:58:35 <Zakim> INC_LLDXG()10:00AM has now started
13:58:40 <antoine> antoine has joined #lld
13:58:42 <Zakim> +[LC]
13:58:48 <edsu> zakim, [LC] is edsu
13:58:48 <Zakim> +edsu; got it
13:59:00 <ww> ww has joined #lld
13:59:12 <Zakim> + +1.614.764.aaaa
13:59:16 <Zakim> +??P9
13:59:20 <jeff_> zakim, aaaa is me
13:59:20 <Zakim> +jeff_; got it
13:59:28 <Zakim> +??P0
13:59:40 <tbaker> zakim, ??p9 is tbaker
13:59:41 <Zakim> +tbaker; got it
13:59:54 <tbaker> zakim, ??P0 is kcoyle
13:59:56 <Zakim> +kcoyle; got it
14:00:03 <tbaker> zakim, who is on the call?
14:00:03 <Zakim> On the phone I see edsu, jeff_, tbaker, kcoyle
14:00:34 <Zakim> +??P16
14:00:42 <antoine> zakim, ??P16 is me
14:00:42 <Zakim> +antoine; got it
14:01:10 <Zakim> + +33.1.44.78.aabb
14:01:10 <GordonD> GordonD has joined #lld
14:01:27 <tbaker> zakim, aabb is emma
14:01:28 <Zakim> +emma; got it
14:01:45 <emma_> emma_ has joined #lld
14:02:48 <Zakim> +??P22
14:03:16 <jeff_> zakim, mute me
14:03:16 <Zakim> jeff_ should now be muted
14:03:22 <Zakim> +??P24
14:03:25 <Zakim> +[LC]
14:03:28 <emma_> rrsagent, minutes ?
14:03:28 <RRSAgent> I'm logging.  Sorry, nothing found for 'minutes '
14:03:30 <ww> Zakim, ??P24 is me
14:03:30 <Zakim> +ww; got it
14:03:40 <ww> zakim, mute me please
14:03:40 <Zakim> ww should now be muted
14:03:44 <tbaker> zakim, who is on the call?
14:03:44 <Zakim> On the phone I see edsu, jeff_ (muted), tbaker, kcoyle, antoine, emma, ??P22, ww (muted), [LC]
14:03:56 <emma_> zakim, ?P22 is GordonD
14:03:56 <Zakim> sorry, emma_, I do not recognize a party named '?P22'
14:04:03 <tbaker> zakim, ??P22 is probably GordonD
14:04:03 <Zakim> +GordonD?; got it
14:04:08 <emma_> zakim, ??P22 is GordonD
14:04:08 <Zakim> I already had ??P22 as GordonD?, emma_
14:04:17 <rayd_> rayd_ has joined #lld
14:06:02 <tbaker> Scribe: rayd_
14:06:07 <tbaker> Scribenick: rayd_
14:06:23 <rayd_> Topic: administrative
14:06:39 <rayd_> no call last week, propose accept may 26 minutes
14:06:52 <rayd_> minutes accepted
14:07:09 <rayd_> report from summit
14:08:31 <rayd_> (sorry i missed last minute or so phone trouble, ok now)
14:08:35 <tbaker> Karen: LOD-LAM was barcamp-style.  Rights. Technical issues.
14:09:21 <rayd_> antoine: exchanging pointers to tools, great stuff, many more people than expected
14:10:09 <rayd_> presented stuff from our group, lots of interest, noted about future work, 
14:10:27 <rayd_> talk about extending from incubator to wg, not much reaction to that
14:10:41 <rayd_> tom
14:11:05 <rayd_> participated in discussions on vacabularies, approches to preservation of rdf vocabs
14:11:56 <rayd_> alignments, have alingment issues buble up; need for networking among vocab maintainers, best practices
14:12:31 <rayd_> open source tools for producing vocabularies; very good discussion. Expecting a repor t in next couple months.
14:13:11 <rayd_> too short.  alot of people coming from different perspectives, brainsttorming
14:13:15 <edsu> +q
14:13:27 <rayd_> topic: final report
14:13:58 <rayd_> tom: charter has been extended till sept. Emanuelle will talk about strategy, next call
14:14:57 <emma_> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2011Jun/0002.html
14:15:23 <rayd_> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2011Jun/0002.html  ?
14:16:04 <rayd_> recruiting reviewers from the group
14:16:28 <rayd_> sent around notes to people who can't attend calls regularly and gotten good response
14:16:42 <antoine> q+
14:16:55 <rayd_> we'll be seeing reviews next week or two
14:17:51 <rayd_> benefits, recommendations, issues key three sections, go out for comments from general public
14:18:03 <rayd_> then have survey sections reviewed by this group
14:18:26 <rayd_> need to recruit four reviewers from this call
14:18:54 <rayd_> two report sections, 3-4 pages each; vocab data sets, technologies.
14:19:26 <tbaker> ack edsu
14:19:29 <rayd_> ed
14:20:09 <rayd_> curious about whether conference was one-time or ongoing
14:20:37 <tbaker> ack antoine
14:20:39 <rayd_> no concrete plans for followup meeting
14:21:09 <rayd_> antoine
14:21:21 <rayd_> there were some informal proposals for followup.
14:21:32 <rayd_> antoine - organization of reviews
14:22:03 <rayd_> review to try to include as much as possible those who haven't been involved in writing process
14:22:18 <antoine> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2011May/0051.html
14:23:08 <emma_> q+
14:23:09 <kcoyle> q+
14:23:17 <tbaker> ack emma
14:23:28 <rayd_> continue the action for one week and if nothing happens drop it (what action?)
14:23:50 <rayd_> emanuelle - shouldn't invest too much effort in this.
14:23:55 <tbaker> ACTION: Antoine and Emmanuelle to talk about strategies for getting comments at next call [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/05/19-lld-minutes.html#action15]
14:23:58 <tbaker> --continues
14:24:02 <tbaker> ack kcoyle
14:24:42 <rayd_> karen - idea of having a place where people can comment, that was for public review
14:25:08 <rayd_> need to announce a public review period. broader than review of individual sections. need stragegy 
14:25:35 <rayd_> tom - proposing release individual sections june 10, 17 24
14:26:04 <rayd_> e.g.  comments june 10-july 10
14:26:49 <rayd_> tom propose posting on those three separate weeks.  no special call for review of survey oriented sections.
14:27:35 <rayd_> start review period tomorrow to july 10, will give us july 10 to early aug then move text
14:27:51 <rayd_> ..... from wiki to html using publ rules. don't leave to last minute
14:28:23 <rayd_> tight schedule
14:28:56 <rayd_> karen - just posting on our mailing list wont reach community. lots of important people not on our list
14:29:01 <antoine> +1
14:29:09 <rayd_> ...... how to do PR on this
14:29:28 <ww> +1 (and suggest send out to many different relevant lists)
14:29:59 <rayd_> tom - agree to general framework incl schedule and then come up with a PR plan
14:30:09 <rayd_> PR
14:31:29 <rayd_> antoine - more thanpr, need to explicitly solicit comments
14:31:49 <kcoyle> if they aren't on lld list, they will need another email address to send to
14:32:04 <tbaker> Antoine: Emma has dug up list we used for soliciting use cases - list of mailing lists.
14:32:37 <rayd_> what email to send comments to?  Antoine: public list
14:32:56 <rayd_> actions
14:33:19 <antoine> q+
14:33:37 <rayd_> 1. on three chairs come up with a draft announcement by Monday. msg to community inviting comments
14:34:21 <rayd_> (and can email chairs directly but that could be difficult to manage)
14:34:57 <rayd_> antoine - range of the review period. july 10 may be too early
14:36:04 <rayd_> emanuelle - should we first finish internal review before public
14:36:34 <ww> q+ 
14:36:56 <tbaker> ack antoine
14:37:11 <rayd_> i.e. review from members will change content so we should not have public reviewing before we edit the content based on member review
14:37:30 <rayd_> antoine - can't wait
14:38:12 <rayd_> can't ask for public review with period of 2 weeks
14:38:55 <rayd_> antoine - review period until july 20
14:40:04 <rayd_> need to send email before next call; draft note to community about comment period, perhaps discuss on next call
14:40:40 <tbaker> ack ACTION: Co-chairs to draft message to the community about review between 16 June and 20 July - post before next call, on 16 June
14:40:41 <rayd_> review period begins June 16
14:40:51 <tbaker> ACTION: Co-chairs to draft message to the community about review between 16 June and 20 July - post before next call, on 16 June
14:40:59 <antoine> q?
14:41:02 <ww> zakim, unmute me
14:41:02 <Zakim> ww should no longer be muted
14:41:05 <tbaker> ack ww
14:42:12 <antoine> rrsagent, please draft minutes
14:42:12 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/06/09-lld-minutes.html antoine
14:42:14 <rayd_> william - schema.org, rdfa.   should we note that we have taken note 
14:43:11 <antoine> Regrets+ Michael
14:43:32 <rayd_> somewhere in the report schema.org to be acknowledged
14:43:52 <jeff_> I can help
14:43:55 <rayd_> william to write something up
14:43:56 <antoine> a thread has been started: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-lld/2011Jun/0004.html
14:44:06 <edsu> +1 for mentioning microdata and schema.org 
14:44:40 <ww> zakim, mute me
14:44:40 <Zakim> ww should now be muted
14:44:43 <jeff_> I'm here
14:44:47 <rayd_>  microdata or rdfa?
14:45:39 <tbaker> ACTION: Jeff and William to propose text on microdata and schema.org - where in the report it should be discussed
14:46:27 <edsu> +1 for evolving it
14:46:35 <rayd_> should wiki text remain frozen during comment period
14:46:36 <GordonD> +1 allow wiki text to evolve (nothing stands still)
14:46:43 <antoine> +. we just need to mention that in the call for review
14:46:54 <edsu> antoine: good idea
14:47:12 <kcoyle> maybe we should just avoid major revisions, but allow clarification of text
14:47:20 <antoine> +1
14:48:01 <rayd_> agree with methodology of releasing sections on three separate dates? (tom)
14:48:27 <kcoyle> q+
14:48:45 <tbaker> ack kcoyle
14:49:06 <rayd_> people will be more inclined to comment if we break it into peices because the whole thing is overwhelmingly long
14:49:31 <rayd_> karen - however we urge people to also look at the whole, to see if something is missing
14:50:49 <rayd_> similar note to that effect in each of the three threads
14:51:10 <rayd_> and a reminder as well in the wiki
14:51:18 <antoine> kcoyle++
14:52:08 <rayd_> benefits - karen
14:52:18 <tbaker> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2011Jun/0002.html
14:55:06 <antoine> q+
14:55:19 <rayd_> karen  - for other lists, maybe one section per list. how do we handle that. tricky.
14:57:14 <rayd_> if discussion is generated on separate lists, some of that discussion will be lost.  Need to get discussion focussed to publid lld list
14:57:57 <tbaker> ack antoine
14:58:26 <rayd_> antoine - just one post.
15:00:05 <GordonD> Suggest whoever forwards review email to another list tries to feed-back local comments to public lld list
15:00:46 <rayd_> will continue to recruit volunteers, next call
15:01:43 <Zakim> -GordonD?
15:01:43 <GordonD> I can review Relevant technologies - I've had nothing to do with this section so far, so can approach with some objectivity
15:01:58 <antoine> GordonD++
15:02:01 <GordonD> I just got cut-off from Skype, won't try to reconnect
15:02:09 <rayd_> tom - particularly need reviewer for use case section
15:03:02 <kcoyle> maybe jodi, she did a lot of work with use cases?
15:03:23 <antoine> well she has already an action on that :-)
15:04:25 <tbaker> ACTION: Gordon to review Relevant Technologies
15:04:29 <rayd_> gordon to review relevant technologies
15:04:38 <Zakim> -[LC]
15:04:40 <Zakim> -kcoyle
15:04:40 <Zakim> -jeff_
15:04:42 <Zakim> -ww
15:04:46 <antoine> rrsagent, please list attendees
15:04:46 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'please list attendees', antoine.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
15:04:46 <edsu> ww: relevant technologies seems like a good spot for microdata/schema.org discussion
15:04:48 <jeff_> jeff_ has left #lld
15:04:53 <edsu> oops, too late :)
15:04:53 <ww> edsu: agreed
15:05:02 <edsu> oh, there you are :)
15:05:04 <antoine> zakim, please list attendees
15:05:04 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been edsu, +1.614.764.aaaa, jeff_, tbaker, kcoyle, antoine, +33.1.44.78.aabb, emma, [LC], ww, GordonD?
15:05:08 <Zakim> -edsu
15:05:36 <antoine> rrsagent, please draft minutes
15:05:36 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/06/09-lld-minutes.html antoine
15:06:02 <antoine> zakim, who is here?
15:06:02 <Zakim> On the phone I see tbaker, antoine, emma
15:06:39 <antoine> ww, are u still here?
15:06:51 <ww> antoine: yes
15:07:06 <antoine> @ww: are u happy with the answers to Ed?
15:07:29 <ww> edsu: it also bears on the benefits though - it isn't as clear that rdfa is good for SEO...
15:07:44 <ww> antoine: minute...
15:07:53 <antoine> ww: ok :-)
15:07:58 <Zakim> -tbaker
15:08:03 <Zakim> -emma
15:08:03 <Zakim> -antoine
15:08:04 <Zakim> INC_LLDXG()10:00AM has ended
15:08:05 <Zakim> Attendees were edsu, +1.614.764.aaaa, jeff_, tbaker, kcoyle, antoine, +33.1.44.78.aabb, emma, [LC], ww, GordonD?
15:08:12 <antoine> zakim, bye
15:08:12 <Zakim> Zakim has left #lld
15:08:16 <antoine> rrsagent, bye
15:08:16 <RRSAgent> I see 4 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2011/06/09-lld-actions.rdf :
15:08:16 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Antoine and Emmanuelle to talk about strategies for getting comments at next call [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/05/19-lld-minutes.html#action15] [1]
15:08:16 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/06/09-lld-irc#T14-23-55
15:08:16 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Co-chairs to draft message to the community about review between 16 June and 20 July - post before next call, on 16 June [2]
15:08:16 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/06/09-lld-irc#T14-40-51
15:08:16 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Jeff and William to propose text on microdata and schema.org - where in the report it should be discussed [3]
15:08:16 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/06/09-lld-irc#T14-45-39
15:08:16 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Gordon to review Relevant Technologies [4]
15:08:16 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/06/09-lld-irc#T15-04-25
15:08:18 <edsu> ww: i dunno, they are still planning on supporting rdfa
15:08:43 <edsu> ww: i don't think we should say anything at this point about what the big search engines will do in the future