16:37:12 RRSAgent has joined #ua 16:37:12 logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/05/26-ua-irc 16:37:14 RRSAgent, make logs public 16:37:14 Zakim has joined #ua 16:37:16 Zakim, this will be WAI_UAWG 16:37:16 ok, trackbot; I see WAI_UAWG()1:00PM scheduled to start in 23 minutes 16:37:17 Meeting: User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference 16:37:17 Date: 26 May 2011 16:37:29 Chair: JimAllan, KellyFord 16:58:46 Greg has joined #ua 17:00:08 kford has joined #ua 17:00:37 zakim, code 17:00:37 I don't understand 'code', kford 17:00:53 WAI_UAWG()1:00PM has now started 17:01:02 +JAllan 17:01:06 zakim, code? 17:01:06 the conference code is 82941 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), kford 17:01:37 Agenda+Comments to 5.3 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2011AprJun/0039.html 17:01:51 Agenda+Accessibility Issues wiki -http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/work/wiki/User_Agent_issues_effecting_A11y 17:02:04 Agenda+Continue work on IER items needing content numbering issues, and recent actions for inclusion in the document should be committed to the document by this call. will update the list and tackle open items. 17:02:13 Jan has joined #ua 17:02:19 zakim, code? 17:02:19 the conference code is 82941 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), Jan 17:02:22 sharper has joined #ua 17:02:35 zakim, code? 17:02:35 the conference code is 82941 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), sharper 17:02:35 \ 17:02:51 +Greg 17:03:05 +[Microsoft] 17:03:14 zakim, microsoft is kford 17:03:14 +kford; got it 17:03:15 +Jeanne 17:03:22 jeanne has joined #ua 17:03:29 +??P7 17:03:39 zakim, ??P7 is really Jan 17:03:39 +Jan; got it 17:04:32 +??P16 17:04:38 zakim, ??P16 is sharper 17:04:38 +sharper; got it 17:08:58 +Mark_Hakkinen 17:11:07 +KimPatch 17:12:07 KimPatch has joined #ua 17:13:33 zakim, who is here? 17:13:33 On the phone I see JAllan, Greg, kford, Jeanne, Jan, sharper, Mark_Hakkinen, KimPatch 17:13:36 On IRC I see KimPatch, jeanne, sharper, Jan, kford, Greg, Zakim, RRSAgent, JAllan, trackbot 17:13:47 zakim, agenda 17:13:47 I don't understand 'agenda', JAllan 17:13:54 zakim, agenda? 17:13:54 I see 3 items remaining on the agenda: 17:13:55 1. Comments to 5.3 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2011AprJun/0039.html [from JAllan] 17:13:58 2. Accessibility Issues wiki -http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/work/wiki/User_Agent_issues_effecting_A11y [from JAllan] 17:14:02 3. Continue work on IER items needing content numbering issues, and recent actions for inclusion in the document should be committed to the document by this call. will update the 17:14:04 ... list and tackle open items. [from JAllan] 17:15:00 agenda+ EIR 2.9.6 on wiki http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/work/wiki/Guideline_2.9#2.9.6_Stop.2FPause.2FResume_Time-Based_Media 17:15:48 MH: FF beta has native support for SMIL3 17:16:19 ... anyone have experience or more knowledge of same? 17:16:56 ... SMIL is on FF5. Largest uptake of SMIL is on mobile devices 17:22:44 mh: longdesc, aria. what are the UA responsibilities. The UA should be processing the information directly and not rely on AT handling the control and rendering of the information. 17:23:24 mh: if we support keyboard navigation by structure (headings, lists), should also navigate by aria-roles 17:24:51 ... UAs should reveal aria roles and properties and be actionable natively 17:25:34 developers should be using getElementby should include name, role, etc. 17:26:31 gl: 2.5.2 keyboard navigation needs to be beefed up to include aria 17:27:08 issue: ensure aria role, state, etc should be in the glossary. 17:27:08 Created ISSUE-86 - Ensure aria role, state, etc should be in the glossary. ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/issues/86/edit . 17:28:09 gl: in document when we say role should add (e.g. aria-role) to make it explicit 17:29:05 action: Editors to review Issue-86 and look for places where ARIA roles should be included - including glossary. 17:29:05 Sorry, couldn't find user - Editors 17:29:28 action: Jeanne to have Editors review Issue-86 and look for places where ARIA roles should be included - including glossary. 17:29:28 Created ACTION-560 - Have Editors review Issue-86 and look for places where ARIA roles should be included - including glossary. [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2011-06-02]. 17:29:53 action: MarkH to review document for need to add explicit aria information 17:29:53 Sorry, couldn't find user - MarkH 17:30:02 action: Mark to review document for need to add explicit aria information 17:30:02 Created ACTION-561 - Review document for need to add explicit aria information [on Markku Hakkinen - due 2011-06-02]. 17:30:44 zakim, agenda? 17:30:44 I see 4 items remaining on the agenda: 17:30:45 1. Comments to 5.3 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2011AprJun/0039.html [from JAllan] 17:30:45 zakim, agenda? 17:30:47 2. Accessibility Issues wiki -http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/work/wiki/User_Agent_issues_effecting_A11y [from JAllan] 17:30:51 3. Continue work on IER items needing content numbering issues, and recent actions for inclusion in the document should be committed to the document by this call. will update the 17:30:57 ... list and tackle open items. [from JAllan] 17:30:58 4. EIR 2.9.6 on wiki http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/work/wiki/Guideline_2.9#2.9.6_Stop.2FPause.2FResume_Time-Based_Media [from JAllan] 17:31:02 I see 4 items remaining on the agenda: 17:31:04 1. Comments to 5.3 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2011AprJun/0039.html [from JAllan] 17:31:07 2. Accessibility Issues wiki -http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/work/wiki/User_Agent_issues_effecting_A11y [from JAllan] 17:31:10 3. Continue work on IER items needing content numbering issues, and recent actions for inclusion in the document should be committed to the document by this call. will update the 17:31:17 ... list and tackle open items. [from JAllan] 17:31:18 4. EIR 2.9.6 on wiki http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/work/wiki/Guideline_2.9#2.9.6_Stop.2FPause.2FResume_Time-Based_Media [from JAllan] 17:31:37 Topic: HTML 5 comments 17:31:59 js: discussion about whether we as a group want to comment on HTML 5 and logistics 17:32:12 ... comments due first week of august 17:34:03 js: accessibility work discounted quickly in the past, how will the comments be treated: answer the same comments that do not bring new use cases will be ignored 17:34:39 js: We have to be very use case oriented. This is the current need and this is how big the need is. 17:36:03 kf: more than a year ago we filed all those bugs, raised issues. are there major concerns that we want to champion from UAAG perspective without doing a new review? 17:36:15 js: there are keyboard issues 17:36:51 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/ 17:37:14 js: They've broken the thousand page document into 8 documents. We are probably interested the most in the directions for the browser 17:38:38 http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/ 17:40:46 wai-aria is included in link above 17:41:10 gl: does somebody have the big list of issues for HTML 5 accessibility community? 17:41:19 http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Work_Topics 17:42:57 js: drag-and-drop, focus were ours -- other people are working on them. Shortcut keys -- it does look like people are working on that. 17:43:22 js: developer stuff was taken out into the markup language document 17:43:28 http://dev.w3.org/html5/markup/ 17:43:46 kford has joined #ua 17:44:42 js: our stuff stayed in the main document, content developers stuff split out 17:45:25 gl: sections that say this is how user agent should handle and present based on this markup -- do they have a general caveat -- is okay for the user to be able to override the default behaviors in their personal preference settings? 17:46:04 ja: no -- sometimes they get into a little bit of user interaction but not as far as setting preferences for what the user agent user is or does or anything like that 17:46:46 gl: the spec tag says it should always be bold so therefore we can't let the user say it shouldn't be bold 17:47:06 kf: is there someone in our group who has followed this closely enough to say this is what we should review and we can figure out how to divide up 17:47:24 js: I'll do some of it 17:47:59 kf: Kelly, Jim and Jeanne will review and bring back to the group 17:49:20 ss: is there any way we can point to the issues we have already raised without spending a lot more time 17:50:54 action: Jallan to work with Jeanne and Kelly to review html5 for what/s needed for review by the group 17:50:54 Created ACTION-562 - Work with Jeanne and Kelly to review html5 for what/s needed for review by the group [on Jim Allan - due 2011-06-02]. 17:50:55 yes I did 17:51:20 zakim, agenda? 17:51:20 I see 4 items remaining on the agenda: 17:51:21 1. Comments to 5.3 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2011AprJun/0039.html [from JAllan] 17:51:24 2. Accessibility Issues wiki -http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/work/wiki/User_Agent_issues_effecting_A11y [from JAllan] 17:51:28 3. Continue work on IER items needing content numbering issues, and recent actions for inclusion in the document should be committed to the document by this call. will update the 17:51:32 ... list and tackle open items. [from JAllan] 17:51:34 4. EIR 2.9.6 on wiki http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/work/wiki/Guideline_2.9#2.9.6_Stop.2FPause.2FResume_Time-Based_Media [from JAllan] 17:52:53 ja: American Publishers Association has accessibility working group and their chair said yes we will review and send out to group, and they sent comments to the list 17:53:24 ja: we need to respond to those -- should look at and get our thoughts together as a group 17:56:01 ja: interesting, 535 that you could turn accessibility checking on or off 17:57:03 ja: these are all additions -- I'll take a look and get back to the group 17:57:33 action: Jallan to propose response to comments received to the group 17:57:33 Created ACTION-563 - Propose response to comments received to the group [on Jim Allan - due 2011-06-02]. 17:59:02 gl: some are new, but 531 just a slight change of wording 17:59:08 http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2011/ED-UAAG20-20110519/#sc-531 18:00:44 js: I'll turn this into a survey next week. These are mostly proposals 18:00:59 action: jeanne to make a survey of Suzanne's proposals (include existing text) 18:00:59 Created ACTION-564 - Make a survey of Suzanne's proposals (include existing text) [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2011-06-02]. 18:01:25 zakim, close item 1 18:01:25 agendum 1, Comments to 5.3 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2011AprJun/0039.html, closed 18:01:28 I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is 18:01:30 2. Accessibility Issues wiki -http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/work/wiki/User_Agent_issues_effecting_A11y [from JAllan] 18:01:52 zakim, open next 18:01:52 agendum 2. "Accessibility Issues wiki -http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/work/wiki/User_Agent_issues_effecting_A11y" taken up [from JAllan] 18:02:37 ja: comments on the wiki. Accessibility page -- Charles added comments about Opera among other things 18:03:46 ja: tools/Internet options/advanced and in the accessibility section there is a checkbox that says enable carry browsing for new windows and tabs, and if that is turned on, skip to content links work. But this is not on by default. 18:04:14 caret browsing 18:06:31 gl: keeping track of accessibility bugs: ideally we should have a Web database where you can generate reports on various fields 18:08:12 gl: caret browsing I only turn it on when I need to because it makes scrolling more difficult. I wish there was both -- an ability to move the keyboard to the content focus but also be able to scroll the window 18:09:27 kf: you're right, if you turned caret browsing on it works great 18:10:27 ja: Charles added the plug-in trap that IE has always been able to do and it's been a bug since Firefox 1 and they still can't figure out how to get a cursor into and back out of an object 18:11:15 ja: essentially in Firefox it doesn't see objects, it just tabs over them so if you have a flash movie player unless they have a bunch JavaScript enabling control it's not part of the DOM or anything else -- it's nothing as far as the keyboard is concerned 18:11:56 gl: when people to add an entry to this wiki page be sure to remember to but which version of which browser you've tested on 18:12:55 zakim, open item 4 18:12:55 agendum 4. "EIR 2.9.6 on wiki http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/work/wiki/Guideline_2.9#2.9.6_Stop.2FPause.2FResume_Time-Based_Media" taken up [from JAllan] 18:18:31 -Jeanne 18:18:53 +Jeanne 18:19:09 Idea for second sentence of intent: "Users of screen readers can experience difficulty when audio within time-based media interferes with the speech produced by the screen reader." 18:20:30 discussion of play, pause, stop, resume 18:25:36 +Judy 18:25:55 judy has joined #ua 18:26:08 zakim, who's here? 18:26:08 On the phone I see JAllan, Greg, kford, Jan, sharper, Mark_Hakkinen, KimPatch, Jeanne, Judy 18:26:10 On IRC I see judy, kford, KimPatch, jeanne, sharper, Jan, Greg, Zakim, RRSAgent, JAllan, trackbot 18:31:34 Judy: I was concerned about what was happening with the accessibility input and whether the HTML group would be publishing a last call. I'm done a deep dive into problems lately. One thing that's important is that Html 5 does not imply that it is feature complete because it's not with regard to accessibility. we need feedback -- technically sound including use cases. All of that will be... 18:31:36 ...useful from this group particularly coordinating with accessibility task force. Keyboard access is one of the key concerns. Coordinated missing and use case will be useful. We will have the ability to see the progress that happens. There were a number of working group process coordination concerns. We got an agreement for an open door to raise new concerns as they come up. Some also going... 18:31:37 ...to be watching that very closely. I have reason to believe that there will be some improvements so that there is a more level playing field. 18:33:24 Judy: I'll try to make a point of asking every so often (to make sure accessibility concerns are being heard) 18:36:05 4. EIR 2.9.6 on wiki http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/work/wiki/Guideline_2.9#2.9.6_Stop.2FPause.2FResume_Time-Based_Media [from JAllan] 18:37:30 -Jeanne 18:40:21 Judy: it's necessary to common, people with disabilities need to be able to use the web of the future and HTML 5 is going to be a big piece of that. In terms of the practical aspect of getting one's comments heard well -- they do have a high bar for evidence, precision in what's submitted. It's going to have to be done well. Our input has to live up to the high bar. We have to coordinate for... 18:40:23 ...that. 18:41:19 -Judy 18:41:30 -sharper 18:41:33 -Jan 18:41:35 -Greg 18:41:43 -Mark_Hakkinen 18:42:26 -KimPatch 18:43:33 -kford 18:44:10 -JAllan 18:44:11 WAI_UAWG()1:00PM has ended 18:44:13 Attendees were JAllan, Greg, kford, Jeanne, Jan, sharper, Mark_Hakkinen, KimPatch, Judy 19:18:25 s/publishing a last call/publishing a last call with the current document/ 19:18:25 s/is that Html 5 does not imply /is that this HTML5 Last Call Working Draft does not imply / 19:18:25 s/Keyboard access /Access key / 19:18:25 s/Coordinated missing and use case will be useful/Coordinating with the HTML A11Y Task Force on missing features and additional use cases will be useful/ 19:18:25 s/it's necessary to common/it's necessary to comment/ 20:32:21 rrsagent, make minutes 20:32:21 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/05/26-ua-minutes.html JAllan 20:32:38 zalom, please part 20:32:49 zakim, please part 20:32:49 Zakim has left #ua 20:34:50 s/ss:/sh: 20:35:07 rrsagent, make minutes 20:35:07 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/05/26-ua-minutes.html JAllan 20:39:48 rrsagent, please part 20:39:48 I see 7 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2011/05/26-ua-actions.rdf : 20:39:48 ACTION: Editors to review Issue-86 and look for places where ARIA roles should be included - including glossary. [1] 20:39:48 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/05/26-ua-irc#T17-29-05 20:39:48 ACTION: Jeanne to have Editors review Issue-86 and look for places where ARIA roles should be included - including glossary. [2] 20:39:48 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/05/26-ua-irc#T17-29-28 20:39:48 ACTION: MarkH to review document for need to add explicit aria information [3] 20:39:48 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/05/26-ua-irc#T17-29-53 20:39:48 ACTION: Mark to review document for need to add explicit aria information [4] 20:39:48 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/05/26-ua-irc#T17-30-02 20:39:48 ACTION: Jallan to work with Jeanne and Kelly to review html5 for what/s needed for review by the group [5] 20:39:48 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/05/26-ua-irc#T17-50-54 20:39:48 ACTION: Jallan to propose response to comments received to the group [6] 20:39:48 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/05/26-ua-irc#T17-57-33 20:39:48 ACTION: jeanne to make a survey of Suzanne's proposals (include existing text) [7] 20:39:48 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/05/26-ua-irc#T18-00-59