W3C

- DRAFT -

LLD XG

26 May 2011

Agenda

See also: IRC log

Attendees

Present
antoine, TomB, +1.330.672.aaaa, emma, michaelp, jeff_, marcia, kcoyle, edsu, rsinger, Monica
Regrets
uldis, daniel, joachim, peter, william, Ray, Kevin, Kim, Jodi, Kai, Gordon
Chair
Emma
Scribe
Marcia

Contents


<jodi> can't make it today but will keep half an eye on IRC

<emma> Previous: 2011-05-19 http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/05/19-lld-minutes.html

<kcoyle> no, not me. i haven't dialed in yet

<tbaker> me rssagent, please draft minutes

<kcoyle> that's me

<emma> Scribe: Marcia

<emma> scribenick: marcia

http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/RunningAgenda

ADMIN

<kcoyle> sounds fine

PROPOSED: To accept http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/05/19-lld-minutes.html

Emma: any objection to the minutes of last telecon?

RESOLUTION: approved minutes from last call

Emma: check the future schedule of agenda
... we have asked for extension
... until the end of August
... have not heard feedback
... we will have a telecom every two weeks in the Summer
... no telecom next week
... many will be at LOD-LAM next week
... LOD-LAM summit ... who is going to the summit

tom: 10 members of the LLD XG will be there.
... no formal presentations
... may be a good opportunity to disseminate the main ideas we have in the report, disscuss the idea of follow on W3C community
... suggest to coordinate among ourselves to prepare each session of the report
... 2-3 slides
... combine into one presentation. each will have that on our laptop, ready to present some ideas
... if the idea is relevant with the break up groups, we can present

<emma> 0m/e @Monica keep insisting on Nice, I made it finally

tom: presentation the main point, help to see the big picture of the report, find the gaps in the report
... important to get feedback
... suggest the 10 of us to prepare to cover each section of the report, coordinate among ourselves.
... attend: Tom, Antoine, Karen, Jodi, Marcia, Asaf Bartov, Kevin Ford, Uldis Bojars, Jonathan …

emma: Tom to send email to

<scribe> ACTION: Tom to send email to the participants and create a final version of the presentation [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/05/26-lld-minutes.html#action01]

FINAL REPORT - DRAFT

<emma> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2011May/0055.html

<scribe> ACTION: Digikim to update the transcluded version of the report by Wed Apr 13 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/04/07-lld-minutes.html#action06]

Emma: action is done

<scribe> DONE

<emma> --DONE

<emma> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2011May/0051.html

<scribe> ACTION: Antoine and Emmanuelle to talk about strategies for getting comments at next call [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/05/19-lld-minutes.html#action15]

Antoine:suggestion came about using a system that allows to comment on each paragraphs

scribe: found a system used by JIST
... JISC

<scribe> -- CONTINUES action

Kcoyle: asking about time period of review

Emma: we need to get more people in the review process
... in the group there were people involved in the edited writing.
... may need to extend to beyond the group members
... by the end of AUgust, try to get the comments
... try to identify one or two reviewers to particular section, invite them, like a peer-review process
... suggestion on how to proceed
... extend to mid-August

Karen: thinking of more general community feedback
... what the library community think og this
... people will feel that they are involved
... reading report as the general content
... send to a number of lists and events to get people know
... tell people to propose to the list

<edsu> +1 # karen's suggestion to get the full report out in front of a lot of people as a draft

Karen: need to make sure they feel they are heard

Emma: need to implment a tool to be able to comment on the wiki

Karen: many people do not have account on wiki may not to bother to do that

<edsu> kcoyle: just as an aside, this #wwic (why wasn't i consulted) is a nice essay about the importance of this :) http://www.ftrain.com/wwic.html

Karen: maybe should be on the email
... send a call, telling people to put the words in the subject line

<tbaker> +1 to handling comments on email, encouraging specific subject lines

Antoine: wonder if Karen see the system I mentioned.
... it was easy to enter
... writing next to the paragraph

<edsu> antoine: which one did you find?

*ed: http://digress.it/

Karen: something like that will be good, but maybe a bit more work

<emma> JISC using the system : http://rdtfmetadata.jiscpress.org/

Antoine: we can see other people's comments

Karen: Jodi replied that there are tool that help to do the reviews.

<jodi> besides digress.it, there is commentpress

<jodi> http://commentpress.com

<jodi> probably others, too

<jodi> right, http://rdtfmetadata.jiscpress.org/ is using http://digress.it

Karen: those are word-press based ones

Emma: comments on different sections -- move on

<jodi> one concern raised (by Antoine?) was they encourage paragraph-level review, over gestalt/overall review

<jodi> antoine: sorry, I'm travelling the next 3 weeks, I can't do that.

"LIBRARY LINKED DATA": SCOPE OF THIS REPORT

<antoine> @jodi: me too, I understand :-)

<scribe> ACTION: everyone to read http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Benefits#.22Library_Linked_Data.22:_Scope_of_this_report [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/05/26-lld-minutes.html#action04]

<jodi> antoine: however, my impression is that it's just a wordpress plugin, so anybody reasonably comfortable with that would probably be able to admin

<emma> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2011May/0048.html

Emma: Jodi initiated the discussion

<jodi> antoine: the harder questions are sociotechnical -- where do you put it (so that it's public in the long-term, doesn't disappear)

Emma: asking for comments

<jodi> antoine: would be bad to mint lots of non-cool URIs! :)

Tom: reading through dataset examples ... they can also be digital resource

<kcoyle> actually, 'sound recordings' in library records can be digital

Tom: so edited the description of them

<edsu> Tom++ # you added mp3 i guess?

<antoine> jodi: I could ask Europena, maybe...

<kcoyle> it's just that's only obvious to librarians/catalogers :-)

<scribe> -- CONT

<jodi> antoine: that would be great :)

<scribe> -- continues

<edsu> kcoyle: books can be electronic too :)

<scribe> ACTION: Tom to ask Hideaki or Dickson to review http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Benefits [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/05/26-lld-minutes.html#action05]

Tom: Time is too short for then to review it. I did my review and posted the results before this call.
... invite to take a look at the section that made changes

Emma: some feedback, on broadern the general benefits of LD

Tom: oriented to URIs, emphasize on resources are made more accessible
... Karen's points on what organizations gain from LD. Mostly done.

Karen: not missing, but need more emphasize. People may never heard about 'URI'... Maybe says "using LD technologies, you can get these, these...

'URI' may confuse people

scribe: emphasis should be reversed
... changing the wording
... open with what you get, not how you get it.
... not the process

Jeff: maybe emphasize linking

<rsinger> +1 linking

<rsinger> and also identifiers

<rsinger> other than uris

Ed: agree with Karen.
... target to managers, 'URI' might be confusing.
... later in the report to talk about how to link, not at the beginning

<kcoyle> yes, talk about identifiers, not URIs

<edsu> +1

Tom: URI is pretty central. The concept of globally unique identifiers is central, important for understanding other benefits
... change the wording

Karen: good idea to talk about identifiers
... a little bit cross to what LD is

michael: need to be careful.
... the way of transforming those unique identifiers to the URIs still need work
... careful about the wording

Emma: maybe need other suggestions

Ed: suggest Karen to draft, change the background.

<rsinger> sam here

<rsinger> er

<rsinger> sa,e

<rsinger> gah

<antoine> :-)

Karen: will take a stand on that

Ed: position them in the way you talked about them is good

*is this an action, Emma?

<edsu> kcoyle++ # thanks!

<scribe> ACTION: Karen to edit the Benefits section [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/05/26-lld-minutes.html#action06]

<michaelp> Example for a UUID URI: urn:uuid:7673868d-231e-490d-9c4f-19288e7e668d

<scribe> ACTION: Ed to review http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Draft_Vocabularies_Datasets_Section [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/05/26-lld-minutes.html#action07]

Ed: need to spend more time
... In general, they are very good
... vocabularies and the links with the cases are useful
... the overview are in both document
... the one that goes on to the report has the 'observations' which are very good
... will email more
... one question is about the distinguishing between value vocabularies and datasets

http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Draft_Vocabularies_Datasets_Section

scribe: is it OK to think both
... ?
... summary of importance of linking. Very nice.
... how the linking is happening in the domain
... maybe give example of some project
... framework to help people to link things
... highlight some those projects.

<antoine> SILK (from LOD2)

scribe: will send email about them

<antoine> thanks, ed!

<jeff_> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Draft_Vocabularies_Datasets_Section#An_inventory_of_existing_library_linked_data_resources

Jeff: about the definitions. Try to come up with the words

value vocabularies can be some kinds of datasets

Jeff: value vocabularies can be some kinds of datasets

Antoine: there are some datasets can be used as value vocabularies, e.g., Freebase
... will spend sometime again to write, help the understanding

Jeff: had a point about these could be thought of datasets

Ed: might be important to emphasize that things can be fuzzy

Emma: maybe find people to target to read and review the section

<kcoyle> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2011May/0053.html

<edsu> re: "These are classified into three main groups: metadata element sets, value vocabularies, and datasets." doesn't sound fuzzy to me

<scribe> ACTION: Karen to review http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Draft_Relevant_Technologies for next week [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/05/26-lld-minutes.html#action08]

Karen: should add some types of technologies that target to different users
... e.g., include technologies for metadata developers, not instance developers

<tbaker> Maybe add a reference to the tool Ed mentioned - "framework to help people link things"?

Jeff: some of the things Karen listed are similar to what listed in 'tools' section.

<tbaker> Ed, do you have a link for that?

<scribe> ACTION: Antoine to review http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Draft_issues_page for next week [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/05/26-lld-minutes.html#action09]

<antoine> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2011May/0072.html

Antoine: document is long. will send email later
... the 'problems' made clear

<kcoyle> :-)

Antoine: (some details)

<edsu> hope++

Karen: those of us who worked on the recommendations realized to go back to the issues

<tbaker> kcoyle, jodi - a good place to pick up on our next call (Draft_issues)

Emma: next time there are two reviews to discuss

<jodi> tbaker: sure. I'm booked out until LOD-LAM, though

Emma: close the actions that people already reported, re: reviews

<jodi> tbaker: don't feel the need to wait for me

<emma> Still to be discussed : Recommendation section and Use case report

<emma> ACTION: Ed to review http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Draft_Vocabularies_Datasets_Section next Tuesday for discussion on Thursday [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/05/19-lld-minutes.html#action08]

<emma> --done

<emma> ACTION: Karen to review http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Draft_Relevant_Technologies for next week [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/05/19-lld-minutes.html#action09] [DONE]

<emma> ACTION: Antoine to review http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Draft_issues_page for next week [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/05/19-lld-minutes.html#action11] [DONE]

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: Antoine and Emmanuelle to talk about strategies for getting comments at next call [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/05/19-lld-minutes.html#action15]
[NEW] ACTION: Antoine to review http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Draft_issues_page for next week [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/05/26-lld-minutes.html#action09]
[NEW] ACTION: Digikim to update the transcluded version of the report by Wed Apr 13 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/04/07-lld-minutes.html#action06]
[NEW] ACTION: Ed to review http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Draft_Vocabularies_Datasets_Section [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/05/26-lld-minutes.html#action07]
[NEW] ACTION: Ed to review http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Draft_Vocabularies_Datasets_Section next Tuesday for discussion on Thursday [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/05/19-lld-minutes.html#action08]
[NEW] ACTION: everyone to read http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Benefits#.22Library_Linked_Data.22:_Scope_of_this_report [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/05/26-lld-minutes.html#action04]
[NEW] ACTION: Karen to edit the Benefits section [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/05/26-lld-minutes.html#action06]
[NEW] ACTION: Karen to review http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Draft_Relevant_Technologies for next week [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/05/26-lld-minutes.html#action08]
[NEW] ACTION: Tom to ask Hideaki or Dickson to review http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Benefits [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/05/26-lld-minutes.html#action05]
[NEW] ACTION: Tom to send email to the participants and create a final version of the presentation [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/05/26-lld-minutes.html#action01]
 
[DONE] ACTION: Antoine to review http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Draft_issues_page for next week [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/05/19-lld-minutes.html#action11]
[DONE] ACTION: Karen to review http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Draft_Relevant_Technologies for next week [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/05/19-lld-minutes.html#action09]
 
[End of minutes]

Minutes formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl version 1.136 (CVS log)
$Date: 2011/05/26 15:04:48 $

Scribe.perl diagnostic output

[Delete this section before finalizing the minutes.]
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.136  of Date: 2011/05/12 12:01:43  
Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/

Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Succeeded: s/some parts may be fuzzy/might be important to emphasize that things can be fuzzy/
Found Scribe: Marcia
Found ScribeNick: marcia
Default Present: antoine, TomB, +1.330.672.aaaa, emma, michaelp, jeff_, marcia, kcoyle, edsu, rsinger
Present: antoine TomB +1.330.672.aaaa emma michaelp jeff_ marcia kcoyle edsu rsinger Monica
Regrets: uldis daniel joachim peter william Ray Kevin Kim Jodi Kai Gordon
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2011May/0061.html
Got date from IRC log name: 26 May 2011
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2011/05/26-lld-minutes.html
People with action items: antoine digikim ed emmanuelle everyone karen tom

[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]