13:54:46 RRSAgent has joined #lld 13:54:46 logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/05/26-lld-irc 13:55:00 jodi has joined #LLD 13:55:00 zakim, this will be LLD 13:55:00 ok, emma; I see INC_LLDXG()10:00AM scheduled to start in 5 minutes 13:55:14 Meeting: LLD XG 13:55:18 can't make it today but will keep half an eye on IRC 13:55:22 rrsagent, bookmark 13:55:22 See http://www.w3.org/2011/05/26-lld-irc#T13-55-22 13:55:32 rrsagent, please make record public 13:55:38 Chair: Emma 13:55:43 marcia has joined #lld 13:56:03 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2011May/0061.html 13:56:09 antoine has joined #lld 13:56:26 tbaker has joined #lld 13:56:40 Previous: 2011-05-19 http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/05/19-lld-minutes.html 13:56:45 INC_LLDXG()10:00AM has now started 13:56:52 +??P1 13:57:16 +??P2 13:57:17 zakim, ??P1 is me 13:57:17 +antoine; got it 13:57:28 Regrets: uldis, daniel, joachim, peter, william 13:57:48 jeff_ has joined #lld 13:57:50 zakim, ??P2 is TomB 13:57:50 +TomB; got it 13:58:06 zakim, who is on the call? 13:58:06 On the phone I see antoine, TomB 13:58:29 michaelp has joined #lld 13:58:31 kcoyle has joined #lld 13:58:51 + +1.330.672.aaaa 13:58:56 +emma 13:58:58 +jeff_ 13:59:01 zakim, aaaa is kcoyle 13:59:01 +kcoyle; got it 13:59:14 zakim, jeff_ is michaelp 13:59:14 +michaelp; got it 13:59:20 no, not me. i haven't dialed in yet 13:59:23 +michaelp.a 13:59:35 zakim, michaelp.a is me 13:59:35 +jeff_; got it 13:59:48 me rssagent, please draft minutes 13:59:50 zakim, kcoyle is really marcia 13:59:50 +marcia; got it 13:59:56 zakim, who is here? 13:59:56 On the phone I see antoine, TomB, marcia, michaelp, emma, jeff_ 14:00:04 +??P18 14:00:05 that's me 14:00:06 zakim, mute me 14:00:06 jeff_ should now be muted 14:00:13 Scribe: Marcia 14:00:18 scribenick: marcia 14:00:23 zakim, ??p18 is really kcoyle 14:00:23 +kcoyle; got it 14:01:55 ed_ has joined #lld 14:02:24 rrsagent, please draft minutes 14:02:24 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/05/26-lld-minutes.html emma 14:02:52 rrsagent, please make record public 14:03:41 http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/RunningAgenda 14:03:47 Topic: ADMIN 14:04:02 sounds fine 14:04:17 PROPOSED: To accept http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/05/19-lld-minutes.html 14:04:27 Emma: any objection to the minutes of last telecon? 14:04:37 RESOLUTION: approved minutes from last call 14:05:04 Emma: check the future schedule of agenda 14:05:17 ... we have asked for extension 14:05:30 ... until the end of August 14:05:33 +[LC] 14:05:40 ... have not heard feedback 14:05:47 monica has joined #lld 14:06:02 Zakim, LC is edsu 14:06:02 +edsu; got it 14:06:28 ... we will have a telecom every two weeks in the Summer 14:06:30 Regrets+ Ray, Kevin 14:06:55 ... no telecom next week 14:06:56 +rsinger 14:07:00 Regrets+ Kim 14:07:07 ... many will be at LOD-LAM next week 14:07:15 rsinger has joined #lld 14:07:28 Regrets+ Jodi 14:07:33 ... LOD-LAM summit ... who is going to the summit 14:08:01 tom: 10 members of the LLD XG will be there. 14:08:30 ... no formal presentations 14:09:11 ... may be a good opportunity to disseminate the main ideas we have in the report, disscuss the idea of follow on W3C community 14:09:31 ... suggest to coordinate among ourselves to prepare each session of the report 14:09:36 ... 2-3 slides 14:10:05 ... combine into one presentation. each will have that on our laptop, ready to present some ideas 14:10:30 ... if the idea is relevant with the break up groups, we can present 14:10:52 0m/e @Monica keep insisting on Nice, I made it finally 14:10:58 ... presentation the main point, help to see the big picture of the report, find the gaps in the report 14:11:08 ... important to get feedback 14:11:37 ... suggest the 10 of us to prepare to cover each section of the report, coordinate among ourselves. 14:11:59 -antoine 14:11:59 ... attend: Tom, Antoine, Karen, Jodi, Marcia, Asaf Bartov, Kevin Ford, Uldis Bojars, Jonathan … 14:12:32 +??P1 14:12:36 zakim, ??P1 is me 14:12:36 +antoine; got it 14:12:37 emma: Tom to send email to 14:12:53 zakim, who is here? 14:12:53 On the phone I see TomB, marcia, michaelp (muted), emma, jeff_ (muted), kcoyle, edsu, rsinger, antoine 14:13:05 ACTION: Tom to send email to the participants and create a final version of the presentation 14:13:28 q? 14:13:43 Topic: FINAL REPORT - DRAFT 14:13:59 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2011May/0055.html 14:14:15 ACTION: Digikim to update the transcluded version of the report by Wed Apr 13 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/04/07-lld-minutes.html#action06] 14:14:37 Emma: action is done 14:14:44 DONE 14:14:53 --DONE 14:14:55 danbri has joined #lld 14:15:22 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2011May/0051.html 14:15:24 ACTION: Antoine and Emmanuelle to talk about strategies for getting comments at next call [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/05/19-lld-minutes.html#action15] 14:16:06 Antoine:suggestion came about using a system that allows to comment on each paragraphs 14:16:38 ... found a system used by JIST 14:16:49 ... JISC 14:17:02 q+ 14:17:36 -- CONTINUES action 14:17:56 ack kc 14:18:16 Kcoyle: asking about time period of review 14:18:33 Emma: we need to get more people in the review process 14:18:53 ... in the group there were people involved in the edited writing. 14:19:07 ... may need to extend to beyond the group members 14:19:25 ... by the end of AUgust, try to get the comments 14:19:57 ... try to identify one or two reviewers to particular section, invite them, like a peer-review process 14:20:07 Regrets+ Kai, Gordon 14:20:19 ... suggestion on how to proceed 14:20:46 ... extend to mid-August 14:20:59 Karen: thinking of more general community feedback 14:21:14 ... what the library community think og this 14:21:40 ... people will feel that they are involved 14:21:57 ... reading report as the general content 14:21:57 Present+ Monica 14:22:17 ... send to a number of lists and events to get people know 14:22:28 ... tell people to propose to the list 14:22:29 +1 # karen's suggestion to get the full report out in front of a lot of people as a draft 14:22:39 ... need to make sure they feel they are heard 14:23:11 Emma: need to implment a tool to be able to comment on the wiki 14:23:20 q+ 14:23:27 Karen: many people do not have account on wiki may not to bother to do that 14:23:34 kcoyle: just as an aside, this #wwic (why wasn't i consulted) is a nice essay about the importance of this :) http://www.ftrain.com/wwic.html 14:23:51 ... maybe should be on the email 14:24:00 ack an 14:24:09 ... send a call, telling people to put the words in the subject line 14:24:12 +1 to handling comments on email, encouraging specific subject lines 14:24:30 Antoine: wonder if Karen see the system I mentioned. 14:24:46 ... it was easy to enter 14:24:57 ... writing next to the paragraph 14:24:59 antoine: which one did you find? 14:25:19 *ed: http://digress.it/ 14:25:57 Karen: something like that will be good, but maybe a bit more work 14:26:19 JISC using the system : http://rdtfmetadata.jiscpress.org/ 14:26:22 Antoine: we can see other people's comments 14:26:57 Karen: Jodi replied that there are tool that help to do the reviews. 14:27:17 besides digress.it, there is commentpress 14:27:27 http://commentpress.com 14:27:44 probably others, too 14:27:57 zakim, who is here? 14:27:57 On the phone I see TomB, marcia, michaelp (muted), emma, jeff_ (muted), kcoyle, edsu, rsinger, antoine 14:28:02 right, http://rdtfmetadata.jiscpress.org/ is using http://digress.it 14:28:02 Karen: those are word-press based ones 14:28:37 Emma: comments on different sections -- move on 14:28:38 one concern raised (by Antoine?) was they encourage paragraph-level review, over gestalt/overall review 14:28:49 antoine: sorry, I'm travelling the next 3 weeks, I can't do that. 14:28:54 Topic: "LIBRARY LINKED DATA": SCOPE OF THIS REPORT 14:29:09 @jodi: me too, I understand :-) 14:29:11 ACTION: everyone to read http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Benefits#.22Library_Linked_Data.22:_Scope_of_this_report 14:29:20 q+ 14:29:23 antoine: however, my impression is that it's just a wordpress plugin, so anybody reasonably comfortable with that would probably be able to admin 14:29:29 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2011May/0048.html 14:29:33 Emma: Jodi initiated the discussion 14:29:46 antoine: the harder questions are sociotechnical -- where do you put it (so that it's public in the long-term, doesn't disappear) 14:29:46 ... asking for comments 14:29:57 antoine: would be bad to mint lots of non-cool URIs! :) 14:30:12 ack tb 14:30:34 Tom: reading through dataset examples ... they can also be digital resource 14:30:45 actually, 'sound recordings' in library records can be digital 14:30:49 ... so edited the description of them 14:30:58 Tom++ # you added mp3 i guess? 14:31:02 jodi: I could ask Europena, maybe... 14:31:20 it's just that's only obvious to librarians/catalogers :-) 14:31:26 -- CONT 14:31:26 antoine: that would be great :) 14:31:38 -- continues 14:31:43 kcoyle: books can be electronic too :) 14:31:53 ACTION: Tom to ask Hideaki or Dickson to review http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Benefits 14:32:42 Tom: Time is too short for then to review it. I did my review and posted the results before this call. 14:33:15 ... invite to take a look at the section that made changes 14:33:50 Emma: some feedback, on broadern the general benefits of LD 14:34:10 Tom: oriented to URIs, emphasize on resources are made more accessible 14:34:35 ... Karen's points on what organizations gain from LD. Mostly done. 14:35:31 Karen: not missing, but need more emphasize. People may never heard about 'URI'... Maybe says "using LD technologies, you can get these, these... 14:35:42 'URI' may confuse people 14:35:52 ... emphasis should be reversed 14:36:03 q+ emphasize linking rather than URIs? 14:36:05 ... changing the wording 14:36:14 q+ 14:36:16 ... open with what you get, not how you get it. 14:36:21 ... not the process 14:36:23 ack me 14:36:25 ack je 14:36:40 Jeff: maybe emphasize linking 14:36:40 +1 linking 14:36:40 zakim, mute me 14:36:40 jeff_ should now be muted 14:36:42 q+ 14:36:45 and also identifiers 14:36:49 ack ed 14:36:49 other than uris 14:36:55 Ed: agree with Karen. 14:37:18 ... target to managers, 'URI' might be confusing. 14:37:30 q+ 14:37:43 ... later in the report to talk about how to link, not at the beginning 14:37:45 ack tb 14:38:09 yes, talk about identifiers, not URIs 14:38:17 +1 14:38:25 q+ 14:38:55 Tom: URI is pretty central. The concept of globally unique identifiers is central, important for understanding other benefits 14:39:15 ... change the wording 14:39:17 ack kc 14:39:22 q+ about GUID vs. URIs 14:39:30 Karen: good idea to talk about identifiers 14:39:49 q+ 14:39:55 ... a little bit cross to what LD is 14:40:00 ack michaelp 14:40:32 michael: need to be careful. 14:41:14 ... the way of transforming those unique identifiers to the URIs still need work 14:41:43 ... careful about the wording 14:42:10 Emma: maybe need other suggestions 14:42:11 zakim, mute me 14:42:11 jeff_ was already muted, jeff_ 14:42:28 Ed: suggest Karen to draft, change the background. 14:42:30 sam here 14:42:32 er 14:42:33 sa,e 14:42:36 gah 14:42:51 :-) 14:42:53 Karen: will take a stand on that 14:43:21 Ed: position them in the way you talked about them is good 14:43:37 *is this an action, Emma? 14:44:01 kcoyle++ # thanks! 14:44:07 ACTION: Karen to edit the Benefits section 14:44:10 Example for a UUID URI: urn:uuid:7673868d-231e-490d-9c4f-19288e7e668d 14:44:34 ACTION: Ed to review http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Draft_Vocabularies_Datasets_Section 14:44:43 Ed: need to spend more time 14:44:54 ... In general, they are very good 14:45:12 ... vocabularies and the links with the cases are useful 14:45:24 ... the overview are in both document 14:45:47 ... the one that goes on to the report has the 'observations' which are very good 14:45:52 ... will email more 14:46:14 ... one question is about the distinguishing between value vocabularies and datasets 14:46:45 http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Draft_Vocabularies_Datasets_Section 14:47:08 ... is it OK to think both 14:47:28 ... ? 14:47:51 q+ value vocabulary vs. dataset 14:47:59 ... summary of importance of linking. Very nice. 14:48:33 ... how the linking is happening in the domain 14:48:52 ... maybe give example of some project 14:49:09 ... framework to help people to link things 14:49:22 ... highlight some those projects. 14:49:40 SILK (from LOD2) 14:49:55 ... will send email about them 14:49:59 ack me 14:49:59 thanks, ed! 14:50:17 http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Draft_Vocabularies_Datasets_Section#An_inventory_of_existing_library_linked_data_resources 14:50:30 Jeff: about the definitions. Try to come up with the words 14:50:42 value vocabularies can be some kinds of datasets 14:51:01 Jeff: value vocabularies can be some kinds of datasets 14:51:20 Antoine: there are some datasets can be used as value vocabularies, e.g., Freebase 14:51:55 ... will spend sometime again to write, help the understanding 14:53:15 Jeff: had a point about these could be thought of datasets 14:54:02 Ed: some parts may be fuzzy 14:55:00 Emma: maybe find people to target to read and review the section 14:55:46 s/some parts may be fuzzy/might be important to emphasize that things can be fuzzy/ 14:56:03 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2011May/0053.html 14:56:04 re: "These are classified into three main groups: metadata element sets, value vocabularies, and datasets." doesn't sound fuzzy to me 14:56:22 ACTION: Karen to review http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Draft_Relevant_Technologies for next week 14:56:40 Karen: should add some types of technologies that target to different users 14:57:00 ... e.g., include technologies for metadata developers, not instance developers 14:57:20 Maybe add a reference to the tool Ed mentioned - "framework to help people link things"? 14:57:27 Jeff: some of the things Karen listed are similar to what listed in 'tools' section. 14:57:35 Ed, do you have a link for that? 14:58:04 ACTION: Antoine to review http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Draft_issues_page for next week 14:58:15 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2011May/0072.html 14:58:37 Antoine: document is long. will send email later 14:59:17 ... the 'problems' made clear 14:59:29 :-) 14:59:32 q+ 15:00:00 ... (some details) 15:00:24 hope++ 15:00:55 Karen: those of us who worked on the recommendations realized to go back to the issues 15:01:06 zakim, mute me 15:01:06 jeff_ should now be muted 15:01:28 kcoyle, jodi - a good place to pick up on our next call (Draft_issues) 15:01:29 Emma: next time there are two reviews to discuss 15:01:59 tbaker: sure. I'm booked out until LOD-LAM, though 15:02:08 ... close the actions that people already reported, re: reviews 15:02:08 tbaker: don't feel the need to wait for me 15:02:21 -jeff_ 15:02:28 jeff_ has left #lld 15:02:29 Still to be discussed : Recommendation section and Use case report 15:02:29 -kcoyle 15:02:48 michaelp has left #lld 15:02:49 -michaelp 15:02:51 -edsu 15:02:53 ACTION: Ed to review http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Draft_Vocabularies_Datasets_Section next Tuesday for discussion on Thursday [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/05/19-lld-minutes.html#action08] 15:02:54 -rsinger 15:02:55 --done 15:03:19 ACTION: Karen to review http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Draft_Relevant_Technologies for next week [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/05/19-lld-minutes.html#action09] 15:03:21 --done 15:03:35 ACTION: Antoine to review http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Draft_issues_page for next week [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/05/19-lld-minutes.html#action11] 15:03:37 --done 15:03:57 zakim, list attendees 15:04:23 zakim, list attendees 15:04:29 As of this point the attendees have been antoine, TomB, +1.330.672.aaaa, emma, michaelp, jeff_, marcia, kcoyle, edsu, rsinger 15:04:43 rrsagent, please draft minutes 15:04:43 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/05/26-lld-minutes.html emma 15:05:38 As of this point the attendees have been antoine, TomB, +1.330.672.aaaa, emma, michaelp, jeff_, marcia, kcoyle, edsu, rsinger 15:06:13 -antoine 15:07:15 zakim, bye 15:07:23 rrsagent, bye 15:07:23 I see 12 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2011/05/26-lld-actions.rdf : 15:07:23 ACTION: Tom to send email to the participants and create a final version of the presentation [1] 15:07:23 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/05/26-lld-irc#T14-13-05 15:07:23 ACTION: Digikim to update the transcluded version of the report by Wed Apr 13 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/04/07-lld-minutes.html#action06] [2] 15:07:23 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/05/26-lld-irc#T14-14-15 15:07:23 ACTION: Antoine and Emmanuelle to talk about strategies for getting comments at next call [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/05/19-lld-minutes.html#action15] [3] 15:07:23 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/05/26-lld-irc#T14-15-24 15:07:23 ACTION: everyone to read http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Benefits#.22Library_Linked_Data.22:_Scope_of_this_report [4] 15:07:23 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/05/26-lld-irc#T14-29-11 15:07:23 ACTION: Tom to ask Hideaki or Dickson to review http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Benefits [5] 15:07:23 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/05/26-lld-irc#T14-31-53 15:07:23 ACTION: Karen to edit the Benefits section [6] 15:07:23 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/05/26-lld-irc#T14-44-07 15:07:23 ACTION: Ed to review http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Draft_Vocabularies_Datasets_Section [7] 15:07:23 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/05/26-lld-irc#T14-44-34 15:07:23 ACTION: Karen to review http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Draft_Relevant_Technologies for next week [8] 15:07:23 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/05/26-lld-irc#T14-56-22 15:07:23 ACTION: Antoine to review http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Draft_issues_page for next week [9] 15:07:23 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/05/26-lld-irc#T14-58-04 15:07:23 ACTION: Ed to review http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Draft_Vocabularies_Datasets_Section next Tuesday for discussion on Thursday [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/05/19-lld-minutes.html#action08] [10] 15:07:23 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/05/26-lld-irc#T15-02-53 15:07:23 ACTION: Karen to review http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Draft_Relevant_Technologies for next week [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/05/19-lld-minutes.html#action09] [11] 15:07:23 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/05/26-lld-irc#T15-03-19 15:07:23 ACTION: Antoine to review http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Draft_issues_page for next week [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/05/19-lld-minutes.html#action11] [12] 15:07:23 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/05/26-lld-irc#T15-03-35 15:07:26 -marcia 15:07:28 -emma 15:07:34 -TomB 15:07:36 Zakim has left #lld