07:33:05 RRSAgent has joined #webtv 07:33:05 logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/05/24-webtv-irc 07:34:31 francois are you online? 07:34:52 actions? 07:34:58 issues? 07:36:19 rrsagent, bye 07:36:32 rrsagent, please leave 07:36:37 rrsagent, leave 07:36:57 rrsagent, part 07:37:29 Hi giuseppe, playing with RRSAgent? ;) 07:37:35 RRSAgent, make logs public 07:37:38 RRSAgent, bye 07:37:38 I see no action items 13:54:59 RRSAgent has joined #webtv 13:54:59 logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/05/24-webtv-irc 13:55:01 RRSAgent, make logs world 13:55:03 Zakim, this will be 13:55:03 I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot 13:55:04 Meeting: Web and TV Interest Group Teleconference 13:55:04 Date: 24 May 2011 13:55:19 zakim, what conferences? 13:55:19 I see Team_(wf)13:00Z, Team_(RevCadence)9:00AM, WAI_EOWG(EOWG)4:00AM active 13:55:21 also scheduled at this time are UW_WebTVIG(Home Net)10:00AM, XML_(TAG TF)10:00AM, Team_(gandk)13:21Z, SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM, INC_SSN()9:00AM, Team_(recruit)14:00Z, MWI_BPWG()9:30AM, 13:55:23 ... VB_VBWG()10:00AM, TAG_(AWWSW)9:00AM, T&S_XMLSEC()10:00AM, WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)9:00AM, Team_(MEET)10:00AM, IA_Team()10:00AM 13:55:34 zakim, this will be UW_WebTVIG 13:55:34 ok, francois; I see UW_WebTVIG(Home Net)10:00AM scheduled to start in 5 minutes 13:58:06 zakim, call kazuyuki-617 13:58:07 ok, kaz; the call is being made 13:58:10 UW_WebTVIG(Home Net)10:00AM has now started 13:58:12 +Kazuyuki 13:59:52 zakim, code? 13:59:52 the conference code is 93288 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), francois 13:59:55 +MarkVickers 14:00:07 zakim, who is here? 14:00:09 +francois 14:00:16 + +46.1.07.13.aaaa 14:00:23 aizu has joined #webtv 14:00:29 On the phone I see Kazuyuki, MarkVickers, francois, +46.1.07.13.aaaa 14:00:32 zakim, aaaa is JanLindquist 14:00:49 On IRC I see RRSAgent, MattH, kaz, francois, giuseppep, Zakim, trackbot 14:00:59 zakim, mute me 14:01:00 +JanLindquist; got it 14:01:13 Regrets: JeanClaude 14:01:33 francois should now be muted 14:01:50 +??P25 14:01:54 donghyun_kang has joined #webtv 14:02:09 zakim, ??P25 is DongHyun_Kang 14:02:10 igarashi has joined #webtv 14:02:12 +DongHyun 14:02:19 +??P6 14:02:24 zakim, who is here? 14:02:26 +DongHyun_Kang; got it 14:02:28 -DongHyun_Kang 14:02:38 On the phone I see Kazuyuki, MarkVickers, francois (muted), JanLindquist, DongHyun, ??P6 14:02:42 -??P6 14:02:44 +csderstr 14:02:51 On IRC I see igarashi, donghyun_kang, aizu, RRSAgent, MattH, kaz, francois, giuseppep, Zakim, trackbot 14:03:12 + +82.10.26.09.aabb 14:03:32 zakim, where is +82? 14:03:49 +??P28 14:03:59 country code 82 is South Korea 14:04:01 -??P28 14:04:12 Zakim, P28 is me 14:04:19 +??P31 14:04:35 zakim, PP31 is Matt_Hammond 14:04:43 zakim, ??P31 is Matt_Hammond 14:04:43 sorry, aizu, I do not recognize a party named 'P28' 14:04:50 +??P29 14:04:57 zakim, ??P28 is aizu 14:05:02 sorry, kaz, I do not recognize a party named 'PP31' 14:05:08 +Matt_Hammond; got it 14:05:28 I already had ??P28 as Karen_Myers, francois 14:05:47 +??P34 14:06:06 Clarke has joined #webtv 14:06:20 agenda: http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/HNTF/Agenda_Telco_24th_May_2011 14:06:44 zakim, take up victim 14:06:47 I don't understand 'take up victim', kaz 14:06:50 zakim, pick up victim 14:06:50 I don't understand 'pick up victim', kaz 14:06:54 + +81.90.146.3.aacc 14:07:10 -Matt_Hammond 14:07:11 zakim, aacc is Tatsuya_Igarashi 14:07:22 +Tatsuya_Igarashi; got it 14:07:46 zakim, who is here? 14:07:46 On the phone I see Kazuyuki, MarkVickers, francois (muted), JanLindquist, DongHyun, csderstr, +82.10.26.09.aabb, ??P29, ??P34, Tatsuya_Igarashi 14:07:49 On IRC I see Clarke, igarashi, donghyun_kang, aizu, RRSAgent, MattH, kaz, francois, giuseppep, Zakim, trackbot 14:08:00 +??P31 14:08:03 zakim, csdeerstr is actually Giuseppe 14:08:03 I don't understand 'csdeerstr is actually Giuseppe', kaz 14:08:15 zakim, csdeerstr is Giuseppe 14:08:15 sorry, kaz, I do not recognize a party named 'csdeerstr' 14:08:21 zakim, csderstr is Giuseppe 14:08:21 +Giuseppe; got it 14:08:21 Zakim, ??P31 is me 14:08:22 +aizu; got it 14:08:29 zakim, who is here? 14:08:29 On the phone I see Kazuyuki, MarkVickers, francois (muted), JanLindquist, DongHyun, Giuseppe, +82.10.26.09.aabb, ??P29, ??P34, Tatsuya_Igarashi, aizu 14:08:32 On IRC I see Clarke, igarashi, donghyun_kang, aizu, RRSAgent, MattH, kaz, francois, giuseppep, Zakim, trackbot 14:09:20 scribe: Kaz 14:09:25 scribenick: kaz 14:09:42 http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/HNTF/Agenda_Telco_24th_May_2011 14:09:49 a12u has joined #webtv 14:09:52 topic: requirements document 14:09:55 zakim, ??P29 is perhaps Clarke 14:09:55 +Clarke?; got it 14:10:21 -aizu 14:10:26 giuseppep: how to structure? 14:10:40 ... one proposal is from Jan 14:10:52 +??P31 14:11:12 Zakim, ??P31 is me 14:11:12 +aizu; got it 14:11:16 dcorvoysier has joined #webtv 14:11:17 ... Jean-Claude provided high-level ones 14:11:33 ... while Russel gave rather specific ones 14:11:43 igarashi: agree with Jan 14:12:19 -MarkVickers 14:12:25 ... details and high-level topics should be discussed separately 14:12:43 giugeppep: tx 14:12:46 q+ 14:12:54 zakim, who is speaking? 14:13:05 kaz, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Clarke? (67%) 14:13:31 Matt: use cases I proposed is application level 14:13:41 zakim, Clarke? is MattH 14:13:41 +MattH; got it 14:13:57 zakim, ??P34 is probably Clarke 14:13:57 +Clarke?; got it 14:14:14 zakim, who is speaking? 14:14:25 kaz, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: 10 (14%), Giuseppe (66%), MattH (53%) 14:15:13 rberkoff has joined #webtv 14:15:20 q? 14:15:20 q+ 14:15:29 ack me 14:15:33 ack 14:15:44 q? 14:15:53 q+ 14:16:03 fd: adding actual scenario would be useful 14:16:06 JanL has joined #webtv 14:16:15 cant dial-in??? 14:16:22 giuseppep: would be useful to better understanding 14:16:30 no conf code was posted? 14:16:32 zakim, mute me 14:16:32 francois should now be muted 14:16:35 zakim, code? 14:16:35 the conference code is 93288 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), kaz 14:16:39 zakim, code? 14:16:39 the conference code is 93288 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), giuseppep 14:17:05 +Bjorn_Bringert 14:17:12 giuseppep: let's continue 14:17:18 zakim, Bjorn is Russel 14:17:18 +Russel; got it 14:17:22 zakim, Bjorn_Bringert is really rberkoff 14:17:22 sorry, francois, I do not recognize a party named 'Bjorn_Bringert' 14:17:32 giuseppe: (to Russel) 14:17:43 +cmarc 14:17:54 ... we'll separate the use case document into two parts, generic part and specific part 14:18:30 topic: definition section 14:18:46 mav has joined #webtv 14:18:50 giuseppep: people have different image for some terms 14:19:08 zakim, cmarc is dcorvoysier 14:19:08 +dcorvoysier; got it 14:20:04 q+ 14:20:04 ... is our description generic enough? 14:20:18 ... opinion? 14:20:26 fd: application is a good term 14:20:41 ... another for home network would be service 14:20:58 -aizu 14:21:33 s/fd:/Clarke:/ 14:22:53 giuseppep: HTML5 type of definition of "document" might be confusing 14:23:08 ... we could use "web application" as a term 14:23:24 ... we need to clarify what "application" means 14:23:30 q? 14:23:43 clarke: can try 14:23:46 ack rberkoff 14:23:49 ack fran 14:24:15 fd: we prefer to use "application" 14:24:16 +??P28 14:24:21 ... rather than "document" 14:24:30 Zakim, ??P28 is me 14:24:30 +aizu; got it 14:25:16 ... I personally prefer "web application" 14:26:32 ... if we use the same definition (as HTML5), it would be easy to map our use cases to HTML5 14:26:39 zakim, mute me 14:26:39 francois should now be muted 14:26:49 giuseppep: would suggest your definition to the ML and share your ideas with everybody 14:26:51 q? 14:27:03 [ +1 w/ giuseppep ] 14:27:12 http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/track/products/2 14:27:28 i/http:/topic: open actions/ 14:27:39 http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/HNTF/Home_Network_TF_Discussions/ServiceMigration 14:27:43 issue-7? 14:27:43 ISSUE-7 -- Use case: Service Migration -- open 14:27:43 http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/track/issues/7 14:28:21 mav_ has joined #webtv 14:28:27 igarashi has joined #webtv 14:28:35 giuseppep: Jean-Claude's use case 14:28:46 q? 14:29:12 q+ 14:29:27 giuseppep: "document" could describe application 14:29:32 + +358.405.74aadd 14:29:39 s/application/"application"/ 14:30:06 http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/HNTF/Home_Network_TF_Discussions/DocumentMigration 14:30:33 i/http:/giuseppep: this originally included two pieces, and another part is issue-15/ 14:30:41 q+ 14:30:55 issue-15? 14:30:55 ISSUE-15 -- Document Migration -- raised 14:30:55 http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/track/issues/15 14:31:36 q+ 14:32:56 kaz: regarding issue-7, the description is confusing 14:33:07 ... "music" is rather capability/feature 14:33:24 q+ 14:33:28 ... "device" should be Audio, TV, music player, computer, etc. 14:33:39 giuseppep: agree the description is confusing 14:33:40 ack k 14:33:42 ack j 14:33:44 q+ 14:33:59 jan: two questions 14:34:12 ... 1 is example implementations 14:34:33 ... 2 is that this is similar to multi-screen use case 14:35:02 giuseppep: that's something "document migration" use case would capture 14:35:10 q? 14:35:14 ack r 14:35:23 russel: same concern as Kaz 14:35:32 q+ 14:36:08 ... device capability like camera, etc. is captured by this "service migration"? 14:36:19 ... how is application captured? 14:36:45 giuseppep: "how" is not yet discussed 14:37:02 russell: services use documents 14:37:09 s/russel:/russell:/ 14:38:11 giuseppep: if your application use audio on some device which doesn't have audio capability, it doesn't work 14:38:16 q? 14:38:25 ... I proposed to JCD to rephrase the description 14:38:43 MattH: concrete scenario would be useful to me 14:38:51 The way it is described, the web page itself seems to be transferred from one device to the other ... 14:39:07 [ yeah... ] 14:39:25 q+ 14:39:55 q- 14:40:04 q? 14:40:08 giuseppep: talking with radio could be one use case scenario 14:40:21 q? 14:40:24 ack matth 14:40:25 [ The definition of "application state" looks very application specific and difficult to generalize. ] 14:40:26 ack iga 14:41:01 igarashi: relationship between 7 and 15 14:41:04 ... now got it 14:42:01 ... second question is that this is not migration, but just using multiple devices 14:42:50 giuseppep: "widget running on some device and an application on another device" might be what JCD is thinking 14:43:03 Migration seems to be service delivery with "multiple devices" with state 14:43:10 ... how do you move state from device to device? 14:43:32 q- 14:43:39 q+ to suggest "state transition from one device to another" 14:44:02 q? 14:44:05 With a video, for example, you could retain the playback position 14:44:11 q? 14:44:12 s/... how do you move state from device to device?// 14:44:19 i/Migration seems/... how do you move state from device to device?/ 14:44:29 q? 14:45:01 ISSUE-16? 14:45:01 ISSUE-16 -- Web and Device Interworking -- raised 14:45:01 http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/track/issues/16 14:45:18 igarashi has joined #webtv 14:46:08 jan: (explains the use case) 14:46:20 [[ 14:46:21 A personal device list available in the home is invoked on any web page and devices in the list can be used for consuming the contents on a web page, e.g. video clip on a page can be redirected to a TV or recorded on a network attached storage. 14:46:21 ]] 14:46:35 ack k 14:46:35 kaz, you wanted to suggest "state transition from one device to another" 14:46:48 q? 14:47:25 jan: you can see some example JavaScript scripts 14:47:43 ... comments welcome 14:47:46 q? 14:47:53 giuseppep: any comments? 14:48:09 -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-web-and-tv/2011May/0050.html Jan's message 14:48:22 giuseppep: people need some more time 14:48:39 ... my comments is that more examples are needed 14:49:00 jan: ok 14:49:12 q+ 14:49:12 s/comments is/comment is/ 14:49:15 ack me 14:49:15 q? 14:49:46 fd: difference between device and service? 14:50:04 giuseppep: some use case differentiate device and service 14:50:29 jan: different devices have different capability 14:50:36 -Tatsuya_Igarashi 14:50:45 q+ 14:50:56 fd: do you need list of devices? 14:51:01 q? 14:51:39 ... maybe we can say "this service and that service work on a device" 14:51:51 zakim, who is speaking? 14:52:01 kaz, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: 12 (39%), Giuseppe (8%) 14:52:29 that was clarke 14:52:44 clarke: don't think PCs care about "what capability is working on which device" but devices themselves do care 14:53:00 ... "service" is more appropriate to "devices" 14:53:36 [yes, we could use both "device" and "service" in the use cases] 14:53:52 ... not sure we have to have one specific word 14:53:53 +Tatsuya_Igarashi 14:54:05 -aizu 14:54:14 q+ 14:54:15 q+ 14:54:19 ... a "device" contains something 14:54:22 zakim, mute me 14:54:22 francois should now be muted 14:54:23 +q 14:54:37 +??P18 14:54:41 giuseppep: UPnP like definition? 14:54:53 Zakim, ??P18 is me 14:54:53 +aizu; got it 14:55:08 - +358.405.74aadd 14:55:13 q? 14:55:19 ... use cases from user perspective 14:55:26 ack clarke 14:55:29 + +358.405.74aaee 14:55:30 ack matth 14:56:20 MattH: user centric view vs. device centric view 14:56:26 q? 14:56:38 ack JanL 14:56:39 ack janl 14:57:06 jan: how can we use the terms with technical consistency 14:57:25 q? 14:57:37 giuseppep: I can provide some initial idea, and you can provide comments 14:57:40 ack iga 14:57:41 - +358.405.74aaee 14:57:54 igarashi: using "device" might be good 14:58:09 ... but how to handle "service" on the Internet? 14:58:10 + +358.405.74aaff 14:58:31 giuseppep: it's important to have terms list to share people's views 14:58:56 panze has joined #webtv 14:59:00 ... we'll use same terminology once we've got consensus 14:59:12 q? 14:59:59 ISSUE-17? 14:59:59 ISSUE-17 -- Use Case: DLNA/UPnP Home Network Enabled User-Agent (Browser) -- raised 14:59:59 http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/track/issues/17 15:01:09 i/ISSUE-17?/UPnP Home Network UA/ 15:01:28 giuseppep: more generic use case description would be better 15:01:53 russell: reference to specific technology? 15:03:15 ... can remove DLNA/UPnP 15:03:49 -aizu 15:04:33 igarashi has joined #webtv 15:04:41 giuseppep: this will go back to the previous discussion 15:04:56 ... you need some generic framework to let devices interact with each other 15:05:46 russell: ok. will restructure the description 15:05:49 q+ 15:05:50 igarashi has joined #webtv 15:06:22 +q 15:06:36 giuseppep: we've decided we'll split the use case documents into generic part and specific part, so you can say "we'd support this specific service" 15:06:40 ack jan 15:06:59 jan: several possible scenarios 15:07:52 -dcorvoysier 15:08:02 giuseppep: we could include both (1) list of generic use cases and (2) list of specific use cases 15:08:15 ? 15:08:16 dcorvoysier has left #webtv 15:08:16 jan: will restructure my use case 15:08:17 q? 15:08:22 ack iga 15:08:50 i/jan: will/... you can generate another use case if you need/ 15:09:49 igarashi: use cases should be use specific 15:10:19 ... detailed procedure on each use case would be helpful for people to understand 15:11:08 +q to suggest we have optional "concrete scenario" which includes detailed procedure on each use case description 15:12:26 jan: if we adapt a specific use case, which includes user process steps, it would be fine 15:12:52 http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/HNTF 15:12:53 ... btw, could you please send the conf code publicly? 15:13:08 giuseppep: it's available on the Wiki page 15:13:17 http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/HNTF/Telco 15:13:25 jan: need info on IRC channel etc. as well 15:13:36 mav_ has joined #webtv 15:13:37 giuseppep: also available on the Wiki page 15:13:54 -Giuseppe 15:13:55 -Clarke? 15:13:55 [ adjourned ] 15:13:55 -Russel 15:13:56 -MattH 15:13:56 - +358.405.74aaff 15:13:57 -francois 15:13:58 -JanLindquist 15:13:59 - +82.10.26.09.aabb 15:14:01 -Tatsuya_Igarashi 15:14:04 -Kazuyuki 15:14:04 JanL? 15:16:41 Present: Kazuyuki, MarkVickers, francois, +46.1.07.13.aaaa, JanLindquist, DongHyun, DongHyun_Kang, +82.10.26.09.aabb, Matt_Hammond, +81.90.146.3.aacc, Tatsuya_Igarashi, Giuseppe, aizu, MattH, Clarke?, Bjorn_Bringert, Russel, dcorvoysier, +358.405.74aadd, Panu_Markkanen 15:16:52 rrsagent, make log public 15:17:02 rrsagent, draft minutes 15:17:02 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/05/24-webtv-minutes.html kaz 15:18:07 aizu has left #webtv 15:25:11 Present: Kazuyuki, Mark_Vickers, Francois, JanLindquist, DongHyun_Kang, +82.10.26.09.aabb, Matt_Hammond, Tatsuya_Igarashi, Giuseppe, Aizu, MattH, Clarke, Russel, David_Corvoysier, Panu_Markkanen 15:25:15 rrsagent, draft minutes 15:25:15 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/05/24-webtv-minutes.html kaz 15:25:26 Chair: Giuseppe 15:26:06 s/Web and TV Interest Group Teleconference/Home Networking Task Force Teleconference/ 15:26:09 rrsagent, draft minutes 15:26:09 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/05/24-webtv-minutes.html kaz 15:28:04 s/JanL?// 15:28:06 rrsagent, draft minutes 15:28:06 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/05/24-webtv-minutes.html kaz 15:37:10 rrsagent, bye 15:37:10 I see no action items