14:59:09 RRSAgent has joined #webevents 14:59:09 logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/05/24-webevents-irc 14:59:16 Cathy has joined #webevents 14:59:19 RRSAgent, make log public 14:59:30 ScribeNick: ArtB 14:59:30 Scribe: Art 14:59:30 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webevents/2011AprJun/0112.html 14:59:30 Date: 24 May 2011 14:59:30 Chair: Art 14:59:31 Meeting: Web Events WG Voice Conference 14:59:55 Present+ Cathy_Chan 15:00:02 +Cathy_Chan 15:01:45 +Doug_Schepers 15:02:16 Present: Art_Barstow, Cathy_Chan, Doug_Schepers 15:02:24 +Matt_Brubeck 15:02:44 Present+ Matt_Brubeck 15:03:13 + +1.781.534.aabb 15:03:27 zakim, aabb is Laszlo_Gombos 15:03:27 +Laszlo_Gombos; got it 15:03:35 Present+ Laszlo_Gombos 15:03:47 Topic: Tweak Agenda 15:03:53 AB: I submitted a Draft Agenda yesterday ( http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webevents/2011AprJun/0112.html ). Any change requests? 15:04:13 Topic: Announcements 15:04:19 AB: any short announcements? 15:04:56 Topic: Issue-6 (Open) Touch targets in frames 15:05:07 AB: Issue-6 is the Open state ( http://www.w3.org/2010/webevents/track/issues/6 ). I has two open actions ( http://www.w3.org/2010/webevents/track/actions/24 ) for Doug and ( http://www.w3.org/2010/webevents/track/actions/48 ) for Matt. 15:05:29 MB: I still need to address my action 15:05:37 ... as discussed previously 15:05:45 smaug has joined #webevents 15:06:02 AB: can you give us a rough ETA Matt? 15:06:14 MB: yes, I'll try to get proposals out by Friday 15:06:18 AB: ok, that's good 15:06:19 is there a conf call? 15:06:28 I'm in HTML Speech f2f 15:06:34 so can't attend, sorry 15:06:37 DS: I haven't had time for my action 15:06:49 ... will try to get to it this week 15:07:00 smaug: Looks like we don't have much new business since the last call, anyway. 15:07:08 + +1.415.812.aacc 15:07:13 ... I have some other obligations that will make it difficult for me to address my actions 15:07:34 zakim, aacc is Josh_Soref 15:07:34 +Josh_Soref; got it 15:07:41 Present+ Josh_Soref 15:08:07 timeless has joined #webevents 15:08:21 AB: if anyone can help Doug with Doug's actions, that would be great! 15:15:28 Topic: Issue-3 (Raised) Click event target after DOM mutation during touchstart 15:15:33 AB: Issue-3 is Raised state ( http://www.w3.org/2010/webevents/track/issues/3 ). Doug has an open action ( http://www.w3.org/2010/webevents/track/actions/23 ) for this issue. 15:16:01 DS: I still need to address this action 15:16:09 MB: we discussed this during May 10 call 15:16:28 http://www.w3.org/2011/05/10-webevents-minutes.html#item05 15:16:30 ... people should read those minutes, especially if they want to help Doug with his actions 15:16:39 Topic: Issue-16 (Raised) Should the spec be silent or prescriptive re Object Identity 15:16:44 AB: Issue-16 is Raised ( http://www.w3.org/2010/webevents/track/issues/16 ). Laszlo has an open action ( http://www.w3.org/2010/webevents/track/actions/46 ) for this issue. 15:17:22 LG: no progress yet on this 15:17:27 ... need some more context 15:18:05 MB: subsequent touch events contain objects that refer to the same touch point 15:18:13 ... or the touch points are in diff lists 15:18:26 ... Impl wise, it would be possible to reuse same objects b/w events 15:18:34 ... or to always use distinct objects 15:18:43 ... This impl detail can leak out to content 15:19:03 ... Thus for interop reasons, we may want to specify if objects should be reused or not 15:19:15 LG: I was wondering about existing impls? 15:19:22 ... e.g. the pros and cons here 15:19:38 MB: PPK did some research for Webkit browsers 15:19:46 ... there is a link to that blog in the Issue 15:20:01 ... and he notes the behaviour may change in Webkit 15:20:17 LG: ok, I can make it clear what Webkit is going to do in the future 15:20:45 ... Some of the initial iPhone and Android impls have not been merged to the WK trunk 15:21:05 ... so there could be some differences between the WK trunk and what has been implemented 15:21:45 ... I assume existing impls will have a significant weight in our decision 15:22:06 AB: I think historically, we have emphasized existing impls 15:22:23 Topic: Issue-17 (Raised) Page X and Y parameters to createTouch 15:22:29 AB: Issue-17 is Raised ( http://www.w3.org/2010/webevents/track/issues/17 ). Matt has an open action ( http://www.w3.org/2010/webevents/track/actions/50 ) for this issue. 15:22:59 MB: this is ongoing and should have a proposal by Friday 15:23:24 Topic: Proposal to specify behavior for terminals without touch hardware 15:23:40 AB: this topic was started by Gregers Gram Rygg on 12-May-2011 ( http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webevents/2011AprJun/0098.html ). There were some follow-ups. 15:24:38 MB: a question is how can content do feature detection to determin if the UA is going to make use of touch events or not 15:24:45 s/determin/determine/ 15:24:59 ... there is concern we don't want content discriminating based on h/w or other factors 15:25:15 ... Think we can address some of this by UA capabilities 15:25:39 ... e.g. if a user with eye detection h/w could translate eye movements to touch events 15:26:06 ... But for UAs that don't implement any of this spec, is it useful for the content to detect this 15:27:15 MB: most people probably haven't thought about all of the UCs especially wrt accessibility 15:27:32 JS: need something like action events (not swipe) 15:27:46 ... I want to be able to register for zoom 15:28:04 ... The higher-level spec about user intentions is important 15:28:19 MB: we still have a feature detection issue for contents 15:28:54 q+ 15:29:09 JS: we may want to make it hard to use touch events 15:29:28 ... and get content devs to focus on High Level Intentional events 15:29:46 DS: I do not want to make it hard for anyone to do anything 15:30:07 ... We want it to be easy to do simple things 15:30:23 ... Apple's James Craig has done some work related to Intentional Events 15:30:42 ... I expect him to ping us when that doc is published (by WAI P&F WG) 15:30:55 ... I think people will implement that spec, at least eventually 15:31:04 ... and I agree some people will want to use that spec 15:31:16 MB: well, Touch Events will not go away 15:31:36 ... f.ex., there will not necessarily be a "paint" event 15:31:54 ... Some UCs will use Touch Events and other UCs will use Intentional Events 15:32:06 ... and feature detection is needed for Touch Events 15:32:24 DS: I don't think we will see the INDIE events implemented before mid-2012 15:32:43 ... but Touch Events as we have been spec'ing are already out there (implemented) 15:32:57 ... So devs will need to code for both types of events 15:33:31 ... If native impls don't support either of these specs, some script impls may help 15:33:49 ... e.g. add to JQuery 15:33:57 s/JQuery/jQuery/ 15:34:08 ... There will be a period of time where Touch Events is supported by Intentional Events are not 15:34:14 s/by/but/ 15:34:50 DS: there will be a market reality that these specs will be implemented in phases 15:35:56 AB: we don't have a draft of Intention Events so it causes a problem for use communicating what we intend to do 15:36:06 DS: I can ping James and the P&F WG 15:36:20 ... for starters, would like to have an idea of a starting point 15:36:42 ... but because of scheduling issues, I don't think that will happen for a couple of weeks 15:37:09 AB: is there an action for me here Doug? 15:37:24 ... or do you want to continue to be the lead? 15:37:34 DS: I'll start dialog now 15:38:14 ... and then I'll report back 15:38:28 AB: ok, that seems like a reasonable plan 15:39:43 RRSAgent, make minutes 15:39:43 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/05/24-webevents-minutes.html ArtB 15:40:24 Topic: AOB 15:40:54 AB: let's plan to have the next call in 2 weeks 15:41:07 ... June 7 15:42:13 AB: meeting adjourned 15:42:21 -Josh_Soref 15:42:23 -Art_Barstow 15:42:23 -Doug_Schepers 15:42:25 -Cathy_Chan 15:42:29 RRSAgent, make minutes 15:42:29 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/05/24-webevents-minutes.html ArtB 15:42:40 -Matt_Brubeck 15:43:45 -Laszlo_Gombos 15:43:47 RWC_WebEven()11:00AM has ended 15:43:48 Attendees were +1.781.993.aaaa, Art_Barstow, Cathy_Chan, Doug_Schepers, Matt_Brubeck, +1.781.534.aabb, Laszlo_Gombos, +1.415.812.aacc, Josh_Soref 15:45:21 zakim, bye 15:45:21 Zakim has left #webevents 15:47:33 RRSAgent, bye 15:47:33 I see no action items