16:40:43 RRSAgent has joined #ua 16:40:43 logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/05/19-ua-irc 16:40:45 RRSAgent, make logs public 16:40:47 Zakim, this will be WAI_UAWG 16:40:47 ok, trackbot; I see WAI_UAWG()1:00PM scheduled to start in 20 minutes 16:40:48 Meeting: User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference 16:40:48 Date: 19 May 2011 16:40:52 chair: JimAllan 16:42:21 regrets: Jan 16:42:39 agenda+ 2.7.1 (former 4.7.7) Discover navigation and activation keystrokes from Simon Harper - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2011AprJun/0033.html 16:42:54 zakim, agenda 16:42:54 I don't understand 'agenda', JAllan 16:42:58 zakim, agenda? 16:42:58 I see 5 items remaining on the agenda: 16:43:00 1. Review Survey (link to come) [from jeanne] 16:43:02 2. EIR for GL 2.9 Provide control of content that may reduce [from jeanne] 16:43:05 3. EIR GL 1.9 (2-11) Provide an effective focus [from jeanne] 16:43:06 4. Action Item Review [from jeanne] 16:43:07 5. 2.7.1 (former 4.7.7) Discover navigation and activation keystrokes from Simon Harper - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2011AprJun/0033.html [from JAllan] 16:43:33 zakim, close item 1 16:43:33 agendum 1, Review Survey (link to come), closed 16:43:34 I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is 16:43:35 2. EIR for GL 2.9 Provide control of content that may reduce [from jeanne] 16:43:40 zakim close item 2 16:43:50 zakim, close item 2 16:43:50 agendum 2, EIR for GL 2.9 Provide control of content that may reduce, closed 16:43:52 I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is 16:43:53 3. EIR GL 1.9 (2-11) Provide an effective focus [from jeanne] 16:43:56 zakim, close item 3 16:43:56 agendum 3, EIR GL 1.9 (2-11) Provide an effective focus, closed 16:43:57 I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is 16:43:59 4. Action Item Review [from jeanne] 16:44:02 zakim, close item 4 16:44:02 agendum 4, Action Item Review, closed 16:44:03 I see 1 item remaining on the agenda: 16:44:04 5. 2.7.1 (former 4.7.7) Discover navigation and activation keystrokes from Simon Harper - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2011AprJun/0033.html [from JAllan] 16:44:34 agenda+ review 1.2.3 Repair Missing Associations: from Simon Harper - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2011AprJun/0032.html 16:52:43 kford has joined #ua 16:53:02 zakim, agenda? 16:53:02 I see 2 items remaining on the agenda: 16:53:04 5. 2.7.1 (former 4.7.7) Discover navigation and activation keystrokes from Simon Harper - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2011AprJun/0033.html [from JAllan] 16:53:08 6. review 1.2.3 Repair Missing Associations: from Simon Harper - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2011AprJun/0032.html [from JAllan] 16:56:44 trackbot, start meeting 16:56:46 RRSAgent, make logs public 16:56:48 Zakim, this will be WAI_UAWG 16:56:48 ok, trackbot; I see WAI_UAWG()1:00PM scheduled to start in 4 minutes 16:56:49 Meeting: User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference 16:56:49 Date: 19 May 2011 16:57:01 zakim, agenda? 16:57:01 I see 2 items remaining on the agenda: 16:57:03 5. 2.7.1 (former 4.7.7) Discover navigation and activation keystrokes from Simon Harper - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2011AprJun/0033.html [from JAllan] 16:57:07 6. review 1.2.3 Repair Missing Associations: from Simon Harper - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2011AprJun/0032.html [from JAllan] 16:57:21 jeanne has joined #ua 16:59:31 WAI_UAWG()1:00PM has now started 16:59:38 +JAllan 17:00:23 sharper has joined #ua 17:01:18 Greg has joined #ua 17:02:04 regrets+MarkH 17:02:17 +Greg 17:02:23 +[Microsoft] 17:02:24 zakim, time? 17:02:24 I don't understand your question, JAllan. 17:02:33 zakim, microsoft is kford 17:02:33 +kford; got it 17:03:11 +Jeanne 17:06:07 http://accessibilitycampseattle.org/blog/ 17:06:58 http://accessibilitycampseattle.org/blog/ 17:08:21 +KimPatch 17:08:42 zakim, code? 17:08:42 the conference code is 82941 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), sharper 17:10:02 Agenda+Continue work on IER items needing content 17:10:04 Agenda+Review proposals/comments sent to list. Currently: 17:10:05 2.7.1 (former 4.7.7) Discover navigation and activation keystrokes from Simon Harper - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2011AprJun/0033.html 17:10:07 1.2.3 Repair Missing Associations: from Simon Harper - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2011AprJun/0032.html 17:10:09 Agenda+Action Item Review 17:12:07 +??P6 17:12:23 zakim, ??P6 is sharper 17:12:23 +sharper; got it 17:22:48 speech input blog. http://blogs.sitepoint.com/html5-speech-input-fields/ 17:22:56 http://www.google.com/search?hl=&q=html5+speech+input+api&sourceid=navclient-ff&rlz=1B3GGLL_en___US426&ie=UTF-8&aq=1&oq=html+5+speech 17:25:50 KimPatch has joined #ua 17:26:20 all, discussion of events, rants, and a11y in html-next 17:28:15 Scribe: kford 17:28:37 rrsagent, make minutes 17:28:37 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/05/19-ua-minutes.html kford 17:29:38 zakim, agenda? 17:29:38 I see 5 items remaining on the agenda: 17:29:39 5. 2.7.1 (former 4.7.7) Discover navigation and activation keystrokes from Simon Harper - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2011AprJun/0033.html [from JAllan] 17:29:44 6. review 1.2.3 Repair Missing Associations: from Simon Harper - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2011AprJun/0032.html [from JAllan] 17:29:47 7. Continue work on IER items needing content [from kford] 17:29:49 8. Review proposals/comments sent to list. Currently: [from kford] 17:29:51 9. Action Item Review [from kford] 17:30:45 Present+Simon, Kim, Jim, Greg, Kelly, Jeanne 17:31:10 zakim, agenda? 17:31:10 I see 5 items remaining on the agenda: 17:31:12 5. 2.7.1 (former 4.7.7) Discover navigation and activation keystrokes from Simon Harper - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2011AprJun/0033.html [from JAllan] 17:31:17 6. review 1.2.3 Repair Missing Associations: from Simon Harper - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2011AprJun/0032.html [from JAllan] 17:31:20 7. Continue work on IER items needing content [from kford] 17:31:22 8. Review proposals/comments sent to list. Currently: [from kford] 17:31:23 9. Action Item Review [from kford] 17:31:52 zakim, take up item 5 17:31:52 agendum 5. "2.7.1 (former 4.7.7) Discover navigation and activation keystrokes from Simon Harper - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2011AprJun/0033.html" taken up 17:31:55 ... [from JAllan] 17:32:38 http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/work/wiki/Keyboard,_Focus,_and_Navigation_Restructuring 17:33:23 GL: I am going to give an overview of the issue that Simon is talking about. 17:33:43 2.7.1 has some overlaps with 2.1.6 and 2.1.7 but there are also key differences: 17:33:44 a) 2.7.1 described by Simon as mouseless browsing, but it's not... 17:33:46 b) 2.7.1 talks about programmatic access 17:33:48 c) 2.7.1 gives both UI and content Level A (vs. different on 2.1.6/7) 17:34:05 2.7.1 (former 4.7.7) Discover navigation and activation keystrokes: Direct navigation and activation keystrokes are discoverable both programmatically and via perceivable labels. (Level A) 17:34:06 2.1.6 (former 4.1.6) Present Direct Commands in Rendered Content: The user can have any recognized direct commands (e.g. accesskey) in rendered content be presented with their associated elements (e.g. "[Ctrl+t]" displayed after a link whose accesskey value is "t", or an audio browser reading the value or label of a form control followed by "accesskey control plus t"). (Level A) 17:34:08 2.1.7 (former 4.1.7) Present Direct Commands in User Interface: The user has the option to have any direct commands (e.g. keyboard shortcuts) in the user agent user interface be presented with their associated user interface controls (e.g. "Ctrl+S" displayed on the "Save" menu item and toolbar button). (Level AA) 17:36:04 In Kim's and my proposal we moved everything relating to direct navigation and activation into a new guideline, which we numbered 2.3: 17:36:06 Guideline 2.3: Provide direct navigation and activation [includes former 2.1.6, 2.1.7, 2.1.11] 17:36:08 * 2.3.1 Direct Navigation to Important Elements [former 2.7.4, before that 4.7.2, name change] (Level A) 17:36:09 * 2.3.2 Direct Activation [former 2.7.6, before that 4.7.5] (Level AA) 17:36:11 * 2.3.3 Present Direct Commands in Rendered Content [former 2.1.6, before that 4.1.6, also 2.7.1] (Level A) 17:36:13 * 2.3.4 Present Direct Commands in User Interface [former 2.1.7, before that 4.1.7, also 2.7.1] (Level AA) 17:36:14 * 2.3.3 User Override of Accesskeys [former 2.1.11, before that 4.1.11] 17:38:54 http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/work/wiki/Keyboard,_Focus,_and_Navigation_Restructuring 17:40:38 Group talking abot sorting out various proposals on these topics. 17:40:42 simons original proposal in the wiki - http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/work/wiki/Guideline_2.7#Proposed_2.7.1_Discover_navigation_and_activation_keystrokes: 17:41:07 s/abot/about 17:44:14 JA: I'm hearing that you want 2.7.1 to go away bgecause it is in 2.3.3 and 2.3.4. 17:45:14 JA: Do the new 2.3.3 and 2.3.4 cover the mouseless browsing example. 17:45:28 GL: It would be these in conjunction with 2.3.1. 17:45:49 KP: We did change the title but at the time we were doing this, we did think this would cover this. 17:46:06 KP: That is mouseless browsing would be covered by 2.3.1. 17:47:40 JA: Are there objections to removing 2.7.1 and just living with 2.3.1, 2.3.3 and 2.3.4. 17:48:33 +1 17:48:39 +1 17:49:39 Group consensus seems to be that eliminating 2.7.1 is the way to go. 17:50:48 JS: When moving things around in the wiki, please us numbers like A, B and such rather than numbers so I know things are being inserted. 17:51:47 Resolved: 2.7.1 to be dropped in favor of 2.3.1, 2.3.3 and 2.3.4 17:52:39 Action: JS to update document appropriately to eliminate 2.7.1. 17:52:40 Created ACTION-557 - Update document appropriately to eliminate 2.7.1. [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2011-05-26]. 17:55:46 http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/work/wiki/Keyboard,_Focus,_and_Navigation_Restructuring#Related_Resources_for_Success_Criterion_2.1.6_.28former_4.1.6.29: 18:01:45 JA asking gfroup about this text. 18:01:51 Group is good with it. 18:05:01 zakim, close item 5 18:05:01 agendum 5, 2.7.1 (former 4.7.7) Discover navigation and activation keystrokes from Simon Harper - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2011AprJun/0033.html, closed 18:05:04 I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is 18:05:06 6. review 1.2.3 Repair Missing Associations: from Simon Harper - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2011AprJun/0032.html [from JAllan] 18:05:48 action: Jeanne to Jeanne with Greg and Kim work together to renumber the document. Jeanne to add the approved text for 2.2.3 to the new 2.2.3 SC. (Save existing text to be renumbered) 18:05:48 Created ACTION-558 - Jeanne with Greg and Kim work together to renumber the document. Jeanne to add the approved text for 2.2.3 to the new 2.2.3 SC. (Save existing text to be renumbered) [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2011-05-26]. 18:07:01 JA giving overview of group on American Publishers association and an accessibility effort. 18:07:24 JA: Group going to be reviewing ATAG and UAAG. 18:10:17 GL: RElated to all these off topic discussions we've talked about a central place for known browser bugs. 18:12:24 something similar to www.quirksmode.org/css/quirksmode.html 18:15:09 http://www.w3.org/wiki/Testing/Requirements 18:15:19 -kford 18:17:30 scribe: jallan 18:17:48 sh: IBM Raven, 18:18:01 http://www.alphaworks.ibm.com/tech/raven 18:19:29 list of UA issues that impact a11y: inpage links, tooltips, longdesc, accesskeys, generated content 18:20:38 W3 has a working group on JavaScript API, which is a huge a11y issue 18:21:02 action jallan to create a wiki page for list of UA issues that impact a11y: inpage links, tooltips, longdesc, accesskeys, generated content 18:21:02 Created ACTION-559 - Create a wiki page for list of UA issues that impact a11y: inpage links, tooltips, longdesc, accesskeys, generated content [on Jim Allan - due 2011-05-26]. 18:21:34 zakim, open item 6 18:21:34 agendum 6. "review 1.2.3 Repair Missing Associations: from Simon Harper - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2011AprJun/0032.html" taken up [from JAllan] 18:21:47 http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/work/wiki/Guideline_1.2 18:23:18 http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/work/wiki/Guideline_2.7#Proposed_2.7.2_Access_Relationships 18:23:28 http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/work/wiki/Guideline_1.11 18:23:55 2.7.2 (former 4.7.3) Access Relationships: The user can access explicitly-defined relationships based on the user's position in content (e.g., show form control's label, show label's form control, show a cell's table headers). (Level A) 18:24:23 1.2.3 Repair Missing Associations: The user can specify whether or not the user agent should attempt to predict associations from author-specified presentation attributes (i.e. position and appearance). (Level AAA) 18:25:16 sh: I did IER for 1.2.3. reviewed UAAG2 and found 2.7.2. 18:26:39 ... proposing remove 2.7.2 and replace with 1.2.3 18:27:20 http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2011/ED-IMPLEMENTING-UAAG20-20110428/ 18:27:42 KP: these seem different. 18:29:48 sh: prefers 'associations' to 'relationships' 18:29:53 gl: +1 18:30:06 kp: need to be explicit. 18:31:24 kford_ has joined #ua 18:37:17 rrsagent, make minutes 18:37:17 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/05/19-ua-minutes.html JAllan 18:37:46 -KimPatch 18:37:57 -JAllan 18:37:59 -sharper 18:37:59 -Greg 18:38:19 -Jeanne 18:38:20 WAI_UAWG()1:00PM has ended 18:38:22 Attendees were JAllan, Greg, kford, Jeanne, KimPatch, sharper 18:38:32 zakim, please part 18:38:32 Zakim has left #ua 18:38:40 rrsagent, make minutes 18:38:40 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/05/19-ua-minutes.html JAllan 18:39:25 rrsagent, please part 18:39:25 I see 2 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2011/05/19-ua-actions.rdf : 18:39:25 ACTION: JS to update document appropriately to eliminate 2.7.1. [1] 18:39:25 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/05/19-ua-irc#T17-52-39 18:39:25 ACTION: Jeanne to Jeanne with Greg and Kim work together to renumber the document. Jeanne to add the approved text for 2.2.3 to the new 2.2.3 SC. (Save existing text to be renumbered) [2] 18:39:25 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/05/19-ua-irc#T18-05-48