IRC log of ua on 2011-05-12

Timestamps are in UTC.

16:59:37 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #ua
16:59:37 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/05/12-ua-irc
16:59:39 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
16:59:39 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #ua
16:59:41 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be WAI_UAWG
16:59:41 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot, I see WAI_UAWG()1:00PM already started
16:59:42 [trackbot]
Meeting: User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference
16:59:42 [trackbot]
Date: 12 May 2011
17:00:04 [jeanne]
chair: Jim_Allan
17:00:39 [Jan]
Jan has joined #ua
17:00:58 [Jan]
zakim, code?
17:00:58 [Zakim]
the conference code is 82941 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), Jan
17:01:01 [KimPatch]
KimPatch has joined #ua
17:01:07 [Zakim]
+Greg
17:02:07 [Zakim]
+Jeanne
17:02:51 [Zakim]
+??P0
17:03:10 [Jan]
zakim, ??P0 is really Jan?
17:03:10 [Zakim]
+Jan?; got it
17:03:21 [Jan]
zakim, Jan? is really Jan
17:03:21 [Zakim]
+Jan; got it
17:05:01 [Zakim]
+KimPatch
17:05:49 [sharper]
zakim, code?
17:05:49 [Zakim]
the conference code is 82941 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), sharper
17:07:26 [Zakim]
+??P18
17:07:31 [sharper]
zakim, ??P18 is sharper
17:07:31 [Zakim]
+sharper; got it
17:09:16 [Kelly]
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17:09:34 [Kelly]
I think I am here
17:10:46 [jeanne]
Agenda+ Review Survey (link to come)
17:10:56 [jeanne]
Agenda+ EIR for GL 2.9 Provide control of content that may reduce
17:10:56 [jeanne]
accessibility [mostly media]
17:10:56 [jeanne]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2011/ED-IMPLEMENTING-UAAG20-20110406/#gl-control-inaccessible-content
17:11:02 [jeanne]
Agenda+ EIR GL 1.9 (2-11) Provide an effective focus
17:11:02 [jeanne]
mechanism.http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2011/ED-IMPLEMENTING-UAAG20-20110406/#gl-focus-mechanism
17:11:07 [jeanne]
Agenda+Action Item Review
17:12:17 [jeanne]
1.2.3 Repair Missing Associations
17:12:17 [jeanne]
1.9.2-1.9.11 - focus
17:12:17 [jeanne]
1.11.2. Link info
17:12:17 [jeanne]
2.7.1Discover navigation and activation keystrokes
17:12:17 [jeanne]
2.7.2 Access Relationships
17:12:17 [jeanne]
2.7.4 Direct navigation
17:12:19 [jeanne]
2.7.6 direct Activation
17:12:21 [jeanne]
2.7.7 Configure Set of Important Elements
17:12:23 [jeanne]
2.8.1-2 Toolbar configuration
17:12:25 [jeanne]
2.9.1- 2.9.12 Content control
17:14:02 [jeanne]
zakim, take up item 2
17:14:02 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "EIR for GL 2.9 Provide control of content that may reduce" taken up [from jeanne]
17:14:40 [jeanne]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/work/wiki/Guideline_2.9
17:17:12 [Greg]
On last week's call we approved the version in the wiki and created an action item (550) to update the document.
17:18:52 [Greg]
2.9.1 (former 4.9.1) Background Image Toggle: The user has the global option to hide/show background images. (Level A)
17:19:57 [kford]
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17:21:59 [Greg]
Users can have difficulty reading text or recognizing images that are shown against a non-plain background. Background images can also be distracting.
17:24:29 [Greg]
Users can have difficulty reading text or recognizing images that are shown against variable backgrounds. Background images can also be distracting, especially to people with some cognitive impairments.
17:25:22 [Greg]
Users can have difficulty reading text or recognizing images that are shown against variable backgrounds. Background images can also be distracting, especially to some people with cognitive impairments.
17:27:25 [Zakim]
-Jan
17:28:02 [kford]
Possible Example, may be to fluffy.
17:28:14 [kford]
John finds multiple images behind the text he is reading distracting. He navigates to his favorite news site where he finds today's weather displayed over a picture of a sunny sky with fluffy clouds. He activates a button on a toolbar named "Hide Background" and now can easily determine he's in for a day filled with sunshine.
17:28:16 [Greg]
A related resource: 1.1.1 Configure Default Rendering allows the user to hide foreground images by replacing them with alternative content, but 2.9.1 extends this to background images in languages such as HTML that do not support alternative content for background images.
17:31:20 [jeanne]
Example: Sasha requires high contrast to be able to discriminate the shape of letters. She always sets a preference in her browser to turn off background images, so that she can see the text clearly without the variations in the background.
17:32:40 [jeanne]
action: JS to update document to include IER for 2.9.1 from the wiki.
17:32:40 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-553 - Update document to include IER for 2.9.1 from the wiki. [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2011-05-19].
17:33:00 [Greg]
2.9.2 (former 4.9.2) Time-Based Media Load-Only: The user can load time-based media content @@ Editors' Note: DEFINE@@ such that the first frame is displayed (if video), but the content is not played until explicit user request. (Level A)
17:37:33 [Greg]
Users should be in control of side-effects of navigation, including loading of new pages.This allows users to avoid distraction caused by animations, and also allows deaf users to avoid disturbing people around them by sound playing without their knowledge of permission.
17:37:34 [JAllan]
JAllan has joined #ua
17:38:21 [Zakim]
+JAllan
17:40:14 [Greg]
..., and prevents audio from automatically playing and interfering with the user's ability to hear their screen reader.
17:40:54 [jeanne]
Users should control whether media plays automatically particularly audio tracks that can interfere with assistive technology, be a distraction to other users in the vicinity, or start flashing content that would be harmful to a user with photoepilepsy.
17:42:56 [jeanne]
Users should be in control of whether media plays automatically, it can interfere with assistive technology, be a distraction to other users in the vicinity, or start flashing content that would be harmful to a user with photoepilepsy.
17:43:18 [jeanne]
Users should be in control of whether media plays automatically, it can interfere with assistive technology, be a distraction to themselves or to other users in the vicinity, or start flashing content that would be harmful to a user with photoepilepsy.
17:45:22 [Zakim]
-JAllan
17:46:31 [Greg]
Users should be in control of whether media plays automatically, it can interfere with assistive technology, be a distraction to themselves or to other users in the vicinity, or start content that would be harmful to users with seizure disorders.
17:46:34 [KimPatch]
Jamie has epilepsy that's triggered by certain types of audio. She needs to be able to avoid audio that plays automatically when she visits a web page.
17:46:43 [Zakim]
+JAllan
17:47:33 [Greg]
Related Resource: Guideline 2.4 Help users avoid flashing that could cause seizures.
17:48:53 [kford]
Jill browses the web using a screen reader that requires her to listen to the text of web pages. She navigates to her favorite shopping site and is greeted with trumpets blaring and an announcer shouting "Sale, sale, sale!" The audio is so loud that she can no longer hear the web page content. Jill closes her browser and changes a setting titled Play Audio on Request to yes and visits her shopping site again. This time she can read the content and when she is rea
17:50:09 [KimPatch]
Jamie has epilepsy that's triggered by certain types of audio. She needs to be able to avoid audio that plays automatically when she visits a web page so she can be sure to avoid triggering her epilepsy.
17:50:28 [kford]
Last sentence that was clipped:
17:50:32 [kford]
This time she can read the content and when she is ready plays the audio and smiles, thinking of the deal's she is about to find.
17:50:37 [JAllan]
ill browses the web using a screen reader to listen
17:51:44 [jeanne]
Jill browses browses the web using a screen reader to listen to the text of web pages.
17:52:02 [kford]
Jill browses the web using a screen reader to listen to the text of web pages. She navigates to her favorite shopping site and is greeted with trumpets blaring and an announcer shouting "Sale, sale, sale!" The audio is so loud that she can no longer hear the web page content. Jill closes her browser and changes a setting titled Play Audio on Request to yes and visits her shopping site again. This time she can read the content and when she is ready plays the audio
17:55:11 [KimPatch]
Kendra has photoepilepsy. She sets browser so that content does not play automatically so she can avoid flashing content that could trigger her photo epilepsy.
17:57:19 [jeanne]
action: JS to add IER for 2.9.2 to document from wiki.
17:57:20 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-554 - Add IER for 2.9.2 to document from wiki. [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2011-05-19].
17:57:25 [JAllan]
Musicogenic epilepsy is a rare entity among the large category of reflex epilepsies. Pure cases with no associated spontaneous seizures are exceptional. Our observation confirmed the implication of the right temporal lobe in this epilepsy.
17:57:57 [KimPatch]
Jamie has epilepsy that's triggered by certain types of audio. She sets her browser so that content does not play automatically so she can be sure to avoid triggering her epilepsy when she visits a web page.
17:59:40 [KimPatch]
Jamie has epilepsy that's triggered by certain types of audio. She sets browser so that content does not play automatically so she can avoid audio that could trigger her epilepsy.
18:00:04 [Greg]
2.9.3 (former 4.9.3) Execution Placeholder: The user can render a placeholder instead of executable content that would normally be contained within an on-screen area (e.g., Applet, Flash), until explicit user request to execute. (Level A)
18:00:45 [JAllan]
Mark, is working on his 2.9.6, 2.9.7, 2.9.8 will be putting them in the wiki by next weeks meeting
18:01:36 [Greg]
Closely related is 2.9.4 (former 4.9.4) Execution Toggle: The user can turn on/off the execution of executable content that would not normally be contained within a particular area (e.g., Javascript). (Level A)
18:05:30 [Greg]
2.9.2 should be limited to "recognized" time-based media.
18:07:41 [Greg]
2.9.2 would change to read "2.9.2 Time-Based Media Load-Only: The user can load *recognized* time-based media content such that *a placeholder* is displayed but the content is not played until explicit user request. (Level A)
18:08:48 [Greg]
How about changing the title from "Time-Based Media Load-Only" to "Placeholders for Time-Based Media" or the like?
18:09:34 [Greg]
Jeanne and Kelly want to keep the old title but use the new text.
18:10:20 [jeanne]
action: JS to update document with revised 2.9.2 text from wiki.
18:10:20 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-555 - Update document with revised 2.9.2 text from wiki. [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2011-05-19].
18:10:53 [Greg]
It seems to me that 2.9.2 and 2.9.3 should use parallel construction, but it's not a major problem.
18:12:13 [Greg]
Discussion of whether 2.9.3 is needed. Jeanne suggests it's just a subset of 2.9.2.
18:13:09 [Greg]
Greg said that 2.9.3 would apply to a Flash object that serves as a button, which would not be considered time-based media. Jeanne asks is there an accessibility need for blocking such objects, which are not time-based.
18:13:53 [Greg]
Kelly says that if there's a plug-in without accessibility support, the user would want to block it from running, for reasons different from the time-based media issue.
18:15:52 [Greg]
Decided that the title of 2.9, Provide control content that may reduce accessibility, is broad enough to include blocking applets/objects that are inaccessible for reasons other than being time-based media.
18:17:09 [Greg]
Is 2.9.3 just a specific case of the other SC that says the user can choose to have alternative content rendered in place of the default content?
18:18:36 [Greg]
Kelly says that IE9 has an example of this in a few feature called "ActiveX Filtering", where you can disable ActiveX by default, but enable it for specific pages.
18:19:16 [Greg]
In those cases fallback content is rendered in place of the ActiveX object.
18:20:27 [Zakim]
-JAllan
18:20:40 [Greg]
Jim feels a placeholder is needed, but Kelly feels that an indicator would be enough.
18:21:56 [Zakim]
+JAllan
18:22:20 [Greg]
Kelly suggests that displaying fallback content that the author provided for use when the applet/technology is not supported would be just as good or better than a browser-supplied placeholder.
18:24:02 [Greg]
There are cases where each behavior is more functional.
18:25:31 [Greg]
For example, the Flashblock add-in for Firefox replaces each Flash object with a placeholder which lets the user tell where they are, and use them as a control to active them on a case-by-case basis. If they were instead replaced by their fallback content, the user would not have an easy way to activate the specific instances, and may not even be able to tell that there are inactive objects...
18:25:32 [Greg]
...present.
18:25:51 [jeanne]
rrsagent, make minutes
18:25:51 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/05/12-ua-minutes.html jeanne
18:26:10 [jeanne]
rrsagent, make logs public
18:27:05 [jeanne]
present+ Greg, Jim, Jeanne, Kelly, Kim, Simon
18:27:14 [jeanne]
regrets+ Mark
18:27:32 [jeanne]
rrsagent, make minutes
18:27:32 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/05/12-ua-minutes.html jeanne
18:27:35 [Zakim]
-sharper
18:27:37 [Zakim]
-KimPatch
18:27:38 [Zakim]
-[Microsoft]
18:28:27 [JAllan]
action: simon to do IER 1.2.3 and 2.7.1
18:28:27 [trackbot]
Sorry, amibiguous username (more than one match) - simon
18:28:27 [trackbot]
Try using a different identifier, such as family name or username (eg. sharper, spieters)
18:28:38 [JAllan]
action: sharper to do IER 1.2.3 and 2.7.1
18:28:38 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-556 - Do IER 1.2.3 and 2.7.1 [on Simon Harper - due 2011-05-19].
18:28:54 [jeanne]
rrsagent, make minutes
18:28:54 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/05/12-ua-minutes.html jeanne
18:29:59 [Zakim]
-Greg
18:30:01 [Zakim]
-JAllan
18:30:06 [Zakim]
-Jeanne
18:30:07 [Zakim]
WAI_UAWG()1:00PM has ended
18:30:09 [Zakim]
Attendees were [Microsoft], Greg, Jeanne, Jan, KimPatch, sharper, JAllan