14:45:15 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #prov
14:45:15 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/05/12-prov-irc
14:45:17 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
14:45:17 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #prov
14:45:19 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 
14:45:19 <Zakim> I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
14:45:20 <trackbot> Meeting: Provenance Working Group Teleconference
14:45:20 <trackbot> Date: 12 May 2011
14:45:41 <luc> Zakim, this will be PROV 
14:45:41 <Zakim> ok, luc; I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM scheduled to start in 15 minutes
14:46:17 <luc> Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2011.05.12
14:46:24 <luc> Chair: luc
14:46:38 <luc> rrsagent, make logs public 
14:47:25 <luc> Regrets: jornh
14:49:21 <pgroth> pgroth has joined #prov
14:50:16 <dgarijo> dgarijo has joined #prov
14:50:27 <luc> Scribe: dgarijo
14:50:45 <dgarijo> hi all
14:50:53 <luc> Hi daniel, everything is set up for you.
14:51:02 <dgarijo> thanks!
14:52:08 <VinhNguyen> VinhNguyen has joined #prov
14:52:49 <Zakim> SW_(PROV)11:00AM has now started
14:52:57 <Zakim> +??P20
14:53:11 <administrator> administrator has joined #prov
14:53:19 <Zakim> +VinhNguyen
14:53:20 <Zakim> +??P39
14:54:04 <simoninireland> simoninireland has joined #prov
14:54:17 <Zakim> +??P3
14:54:22 <pgroth> Zakim, +??P20 is pgroth
14:54:22 <Zakim> sorry, pgroth, I do not recognize a party named '+??P20'
14:54:33 <pgroth> Zakim, P20 is pgroth
14:54:33 <Zakim> sorry, pgroth, I do not recognize a party named 'P20'
14:54:35 <dgarijo> zakim, ??P3 is me
14:54:35 <Zakim> +dgarijo; got it
14:54:44 <pgroth> Zakim, ??P20 is me
14:54:44 <Zakim> +pgroth; got it
14:54:58 <pgroth> Zakim, mute me
14:54:58 <Zakim> pgroth should now be muted
14:55:10 <pgroth> Zakim, umute me
14:55:10 <Zakim> I don't understand 'umute me', pgroth
14:55:17 <pgroth> Zakim, unmute me
14:55:17 <Zakim> pgroth should no longer be muted
14:55:28 <GK> GK has joined #prov
14:55:39 <luc> I am struggling to get through. Anybody got problem?
14:55:47 <dgarijo> not at all
14:55:57 <dgarijo> i dialed through skype
14:56:00 <GK> I'm hearing things, not sure anyone hears me.
14:56:15 <GK> zakim, help
14:56:15 <Zakim> Please refer to http://www.w3.org/2001/12/zakim-irc-bot for more detailed help.
14:56:18 <Zakim> Some of the commands I know are:
14:56:19 <Zakim>  xxx is yyy       - establish yyy as the name of unknown party xxx
14:56:21 <dgarijo> zakim, who is making noise
14:56:22 <Zakim>                     if yyy is 'me' or 'I', your nick is substituted
14:56:24 <Zakim>  xxx may be yyy   - establish yyy as possibly the name of unknown party xxx
14:56:27 <Zakim>  I am xxx         - establish your nick as the name of unknown party xxx
14:56:30 <Zakim>  xxx holds yyy [, zzz ...] - establish xxx as a group name and yyy, etc. as participants within that group
14:56:30 <luc> got in
14:56:32 <Zakim>  xxx also holds yyy - add yyy to the list of participants in group xxx
14:56:34 <Zakim>  who's here?      - lists the participants on the phone
14:56:36 <Zakim>  who's muted?     - lists the participants who are muted
14:56:39 <Zakim>  mute xxx         - mutes party xxx (like pressing 61#)
14:56:42 <Zakim>  unmute xxx       - reverses the effect of "mute" and of 61#
14:56:44 <Zakim>  is xxx here?     - reports whether a party named like xxx is present
14:56:47 <Zakim>  list conferences - reports the active conferences
14:56:49 <Zakim>  this is xxx      - associates this channel with conference xxx
14:56:51 <Zakim>  excuse us        - disconnects from the irc channel
14:56:53 <Zakim> I last learned something new on $Date: 2010/03/15 18:49:04 $
14:56:53 <luc> who's here
14:56:54 <Zakim> +luc
14:56:54 <Zakim> I don't understand 'who is making noise', dgarijo
14:56:56 <Zakim> +??P18
14:57:43 <lebo-rpi> lebo-rpi has joined #prov
14:57:54 <luc> zakim, who is here?
14:57:54 <Zakim> On the phone I see pgroth, VinhNguyen, ??P39, dgarijo, luc, ??P18
14:57:55 <jun> jun has joined #prov
14:57:56 <Zakim> On IRC I see lebo-rpi, GK, simoninireland, administrator, VinhNguyen, dgarijo, pgroth, Zakim, RRSAgent, luc, sandro, trackbot
14:59:08 <GK> zakim, i am ??p39
14:59:08 <Zakim> +GK; got it
14:59:24 <olaf> olaf has joined #prov
14:59:32 <Zakim> +??P21
14:59:33 <dcorsar> dcorsar has joined #prov
14:59:35 <GK> zakim, who is making noise
14:59:35 <Zakim> I don't understand 'who is making noise', GK
14:59:36 <DavidSchaengold> DavidSchaengold has joined #prov
14:59:43 <Zakim> + +1.518.276.aaaa
14:59:43 <dgarijo> wooow!
14:59:57 <Zakim> +??P41
15:00:03 <Christine> Christine has joined #prov
15:00:17 <kai> kai has joined #prov
15:00:19 <Zakim> +Jeff_Pan
15:00:21 <sandro> zakim, call Thomas-781
15:00:21 <Zakim> ok, sandro; the call is being made
15:00:22 <Zakim> +Thomas
15:00:23 <Zakim> +olaf
15:00:33 <Zakim> + +44.191.245.aabb
15:00:36 <Satya> Satya has joined #prov
15:00:51 <Zakim> +??P43
15:00:54 <sandro> zakim, Thomas-781 is temporarily Sandro
15:00:54 <Zakim> sorry, sandro, I do not recognize a party named 'Thomas-781'
15:00:55 <frew> frew has joined #prov
15:01:01 <sandro> zakim, Thomas is temporarily Sandro
15:01:01 <Zakim> +Sandro; got it
15:01:04 <kai> zakim, ??P43 is me
15:01:04 <Zakim> +kai; got it
15:01:05 <GK> zakim, who is talking
15:01:05 <Zakim> I don't understand 'who is talking', GK
15:01:11 <Zakim> + +1.646.389.aacc
15:01:21 <GK> zakim, who is talking?
15:01:28 <Zakim> +??P46
15:01:29 <paolo_> paolo_ has joined #prov
15:01:31 <Zakim> GK, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: pgroth (21%), GK (10%)
15:01:36 <Zakim> +??P45
15:01:53 <jun> zakim, ?P45 is jun
15:01:53 <Zakim> sorry, jun, I do not recognize a party named '?P45'
15:01:56 <Zakim> + +329331aadd
15:02:02 <khalidbelhajjame> khalidbelhajjame has joined #prov
15:02:05 <jun> zakim, ??P45 is jun
15:02:07 <Zakim> +jun; got it
15:02:10 <Zakim> +SatyaSahoo
15:02:13 <GK> zakim, i am ?p20
15:02:13 <Zakim> sorry, GK, I do not see a party named '?p20'
15:02:16 <paolo_> zakim, who is on the phone?
15:02:16 <Zakim> On the phone I see pgroth, VinhNguyen, GK, dgarijo, luc, ??P18, ??P21, +1.518.276.aaaa, ??P41, Jeff_Pan, olaf, Sandro, +44.191.245.aabb, kai, +1.646.389.aacc, ??P46, jun,
15:02:19 <Zakim> ... +329331aadd, SatyaSahoo
15:02:22 <Zakim> + +30281039aaee
15:02:23 <smiles> smiles has joined #prov
15:02:32 <SamCoppens> SamCoppens has joined #prov
15:02:33 <pgroth> Zakim, GK is me
15:02:35 <Zakim> +pgroth; got it
15:02:41 <Zakim> - +44.191.245.aabb
15:02:43 <pgroth> zakim, who is on the phone?
15:02:46 <Zakim> On the phone I see pgroth, VinhNguyen, pgroth.a, dgarijo, luc, ??P18, ??P21, +1.518.276.aaaa, ??P41, Jeff_Pan, olaf, Sandro, kai, +1.646.389.aacc, ??P46, jun, +329331aadd,
15:02:50 <Zakim> ... SatyaSahoo, +30281039aaee
15:02:54 <pgroth> Zakim, GK is pgroth
15:03:05 <Zakim> sorry, pgroth, I do not recognize a party named 'GK'
15:03:10 <Zakim> +??P22
15:03:23 <pgroth> Zakim, pgroth is GK
15:03:24 <Zakim> + +44.191.245.aaff
15:03:24 <Zakim> +GK; got it
15:03:26 <SamCoppens> zakim, +329331aadd is SamCoppens
15:03:26 <Zakim> +SamCoppens; got it
15:03:29 <khalidbelhajjame> zakim, ??P22 is really me
15:03:31 <Zakim> +khalidbelhajjame; got it
15:03:33 <Zakim> +??P27
15:03:52 <DavidSchaengold> zakim, +1.646.389.aacc is DavidSchaengold
15:03:52 <Zakim> +DavidSchaengold; got it
15:03:53 <Zakim> +paulo
15:03:56 <paolo_> zakim, +44.191.245.aaff is me
15:03:56 <Zakim> +paolo_; got it
15:04:06 <paulo> paulo has joined #prov
15:04:16 <Zakim> +??P1
15:04:20 <CarlOGC> CarlOGC has joined #prov
15:04:29 <smiles> zakim, ??P1 is me
15:04:30 <dgarijo> Luc: Agenda http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2011.05.05
15:04:35 <Zakim> +smiles; got it
15:04:53 <iker> iker has joined #prov
15:05:13 <luc>    http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/meeting/2011-05-05
15:05:30 <Satya> +1
15:05:31 <pgroth> +1
15:05:34 <jun> +1
15:05:34 <paolo_> +1
15:05:36 <iker> +1
15:05:37 <dgarijo> Luc: support to the minutes of the last call
15:05:38 <lebo-rpi> +1
15:05:38 <dcorsar> +1
15:05:39 <dgarijo> +1
15:05:41 <kai> +1
15:05:42 <SamCoppens> +1
15:05:44 <olaf> +1
15:05:44 <khalidbelhajjame> +1
15:05:46 <smiles> +1
15:05:48 <frew> +1
15:05:48 <DavidSchaengold> +1
15:05:51 <GK> +1
15:05:56 <simoninireland> I sent my apologies -- don't know if you want to record that. Otherwise +1
15:06:00 <CarlOGC> +1
15:06:35 <dgarijo> the agenda http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2011.05.12
15:06:51 <pgroth> minutes were accepted
15:06:52 <dgarijo> Luc: no actions on the last call
15:07:01 <dgarijo> ... updates on memebership
15:08:14 <dgarijo> Satya: problems with logging on the wiki page to post updates to the provenance example
15:08:43 <dgarijo> Luc: volunteers for scribbing
15:08:47 <pgroth> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Scribes
15:08:55 <zednik> zednik has joined #prov
15:09:17 <dgarijo> ... everyone should update their nicknames
15:09:17 <VinhNguyen> +1
15:09:29 <dgarijo> ... to facilitate the work on the wiki /telecons
15:09:32 <Lena> Lena has joined #prov
15:09:32 <luc>  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-prov-wg/2011May/0012.html
15:10:02 <dgarijo> ... Topic: Provenance concepts and Paul example
15:10:17 <Zakim> +Lena
15:10:18 <dgarijo> ... discussion started by email during the week
15:10:35 <dgarijo> ... small subset of the group participating
15:10:38 <paolo_> Luc, I am not yet a member and I am not on the list...
15:10:51 <dgarijo> ...any feedback on the example from others?
15:11:00 <pgroth> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ProvenanceExample
15:11:10 <Satya> q+
15:11:17 <luc> ack Satya
15:11:24 <dgarijo> ... before to moving to more complicate discussions, we should agree on whether is a good example or not
15:11:46 <paulo> q+
15:11:53 <luc> ack paulo
15:12:28 <luc> zakim, who is making noise?
15:12:39 <Zakim> luc, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: paulo (63%), luc (19%), GK (29%), VinhNguyen (4%)
15:13:05 <dgarijo> Paulo: could we remove the previous one to avoid confusion?
15:13:16 <dgarijo> Paulo: (the previuous example)
15:13:18 <GK> I think the example is fine as a starting point for discussion, I expect it won't represent the totality of requirements.  AM worried about getting bogged down in tech details before user requirements have been elicited.
15:14:09 <dgarijo> Luc: happy to remove it. However the previous example is mentioned in the minutes that we have just aproved
15:14:17 <GK> Cool URIs... better to add a health warning?
15:15:00 <Zakim> +[ISI]
15:15:06 <dgarijo> Paulo: Had comments about the previous example, but now is happier with the new one.
15:15:20 <dgarijo> Paulo: should I post the old comments?
15:16:05 <dgarijo> Luc: The current example is being edited with the discussions, it is a live document.
15:16:23 <luc> q+
15:16:28 <luc> ack luc
15:16:30 <luc> q?
15:16:34 <GK> q+, to suggest not removing previous example but adding and note to old example
15:16:47 <GK> q+ to suggest not removing previous example but adding and note to old example
15:17:15 <dgarijo> Luc: We agreed in the las telecon that we would use an example  that would be technology agnostic
15:17:20 <dgarijo> Paulo: agrees
15:17:30 <smiles> +1 it seems to me an appropriate example which matches vision outlined in the wg charter
15:17:34 <Satya> +1
15:17:35 <SamCoppens> +1
15:17:36 <frew> +1
15:17:38 <DavidSchaengold> +1
15:17:38 <olaf> +1
15:17:39 <simoninireland> +1
15:17:39 <luc> PROPROSED: accept data journalism example for discussion
15:17:42 <khalidbelhajjame> +1
15:17:43 <lebo-rpi> +1
15:17:43 <frew> q+
15:17:44 <dcorsar> +1
15:17:44 <dgarijo> Luc: proposes the journalist example as main starting point for discussions
15:17:44 <jun> +1
15:17:46 <dgarijo> +1
15:17:47 <kai> +1
15:17:49 <zednik> +1
15:17:53 <GK> +1 accept data journo example for discussion
15:17:59 <paulo> +1 (for .../ProvenanceExample)
15:18:01 <paolo_> +1
15:18:02 <pgroth> Zakim, who is on the phone?
15:18:02 <Zakim> On the phone I see GK, VinhNguyen, pgroth.a, dgarijo, luc, ??P18, ??P21, +1.518.276.aaaa, ??P41, Jeff_Pan, olaf, Sandro, kai, DavidSchaengold, ??P46, jun, SamCoppens, SatyaSahoo,
15:18:06 <Zakim> ... +30281039aaee, khalidbelhajjame, paolo_, ??P27, paulo, smiles, Lena, [ISI]
15:18:24 <luc> ACCEPTED: accept data journalism example for discussion
15:18:33 <YolandaGil> YolandaGil has joined #prov
15:19:14 <dgarijo> Luc: F2F meeting (we will be back to the example later, to discuss changes)
15:19:22 <luc> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/F2F1
15:19:46 <dgarijo> ... from logistic point of view, the wikipage describes the event. Suggestions?
15:20:11 <luc> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-prov-wg/2011May/0017.html
15:20:16 <dgarijo> ... please update the page saying if you'll be able to attend
15:20:33 <dgarijo> ... what are we planning to achieve in the meeting?
15:21:26 <dgarijo> ... sent an email with a number of issues. Can we achieve them?
15:21:27 <luc> q?
15:21:32 <dgarijo> ... are they realistic?
15:21:56 <luc> ack pgroth.a
15:21:56 <Zakim> pgroth.a, you wanted to suggest not removing previous example but adding and note to old example
15:22:10 <luc> q?
15:22:18 <luc> ack frew
15:22:40 <JimMyers> JimMyers has joined #prov
15:22:42 <dgarijo> frew: any of the documents discussed should be linked to the main wiki page
15:22:52 <pgroth> q+
15:22:54 <luc> q?
15:22:54 <dgarijo> Luc: I agree
15:22:57 <martin> i have a question
15:23:26 <dgarijo> martin: should we include in the example some empirical data capture?
15:23:45 <luc> q?
15:23:51 <pgroth> we will come back to the example in a bit
15:24:01 <dgarijo> martin: would be good to include some data that come to an observation
15:24:21 <dgarijo> martin: also the material circumpstances of the photo capture
15:24:34 <smiles> q+
15:24:39 <dgarijo> Luc: we'll be back to the example in a bit, first the f2f objectives
15:24:48 <dgarijo> martin: ok
15:25:01 <luc> q?
15:25:19 <pgroth> ack
15:25:24 <pgroth> ack pgroth
15:25:33 <luc> ACTION to pgroth: add links to example 
15:25:33 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - to
15:25:52 <dgarijo> smiles: don't really understand the objectives on task force 4?
15:25:58 <pgroth> ACTION pgroth: add links to example
15:25:58 <trackbot> Created ACTION-3 - Add links to example [on Paul Groth - due 2011-05-19].
15:26:10 <GK> q+ TO SAY I DON'T SEE GOALS ON THE F2F PAGE
15:26:22 <pgroth> Zakim, pgroth.a is GK
15:26:22 <Zakim> +GK; got it
15:26:29 <pgroth> q?
15:26:39 <luc> q?
15:26:44 <luc> ack smiles
15:26:52 <dgarijo> Luc: implement examples for the specification. Identify people, apps and the use of provenance
15:26:56 <luc> ack pgroth.a
15:26:56 <Zakim> pgroth.a, you wanted to SAY I DON'T SEE GOALS ON THE F2F PAGE
15:26:57 <pgroth> q?
15:27:10 <luc> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-prov-wg/2011May/0017.html
15:27:12 <dgarijo> GK: can't see the goals in the f2f page
15:27:28 <olaf> q+
15:28:17 <olaf> q-
15:28:18 <luc> q?
15:28:26 <paolo_> q+
15:28:36 <luc> q?
15:29:11 <dgarijo> GK: 3 first objectives look good, but aren't these early days for implementation?
15:29:35 <paulo> q+
15:29:46 <luc> q?
15:30:21 <luc> ack paolo_
15:30:43 <luc> q?
15:30:44 <paolo_> ack
15:31:09 <luc> q?
15:31:10 <GK> q+ to say I expect there will be additional scenarios in due course
15:31:29 <luc> q?
15:31:48 <dgarijo> paolo: new requiriments won't be handled by this example
15:31:56 <Zakim> + +1.518.633.aagg
15:32:03 <dgarijo> paolo:  are we developing new examples?
15:32:05 <luc> ack GK.a
15:32:05 <Zakim> GK.a, you wanted to say I expect there will be additional scenarios in due course
15:32:21 <Satya> I also agree with Paolo
15:32:29 <luc> q?
15:32:38 <dgarijo> GK: the new example is a starting point
15:32:54 <pgroth> we don't want to implement anything
15:32:57 <pgroth> amen to that!
15:33:24 <dgarijo> paulo: where are going to provide guidelines in terms of...
15:33:31 <GK> q+ to say yes to >1 implementation; getting beyond 1st rec stage will require 2 of each feature
15:33:42 <pgroth> q+
15:33:44 <luc> q?
15:33:59 <luc> ack GK.a
15:33:59 <Zakim> GK.a, you wanted to say yes to >1 implementation; getting beyond 1st rec stage will require 2 of each feature
15:34:07 <luc> ack paulo
15:34:11 <dgarijo> GK: we need more than 1 implementation
15:34:11 <luc> q?
15:34:20 <sandro> +1 GK
15:34:33 <paolo_> @GK: what is "interoperate" in this context?
15:34:46 <dgarijo> GK: the standard has to prove that is better that independent implementations
15:34:49 <luc> q?
15:35:19 <dgarijo> sandro: agrees with GK. Really try to make sure is something that people can use
15:35:21 <luc> q?
15:35:27 <luc> ack pgroth
15:36:20 <dgarijo> GK: test cases can be very useful here
15:36:21 <luc> PROPOSED: to accept the objectives for F2F1 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-prov-wg/2011May/0017.html
15:36:34 <GK> +1
15:36:37 <dgarijo> +1
15:36:38 <smiles> +1
15:36:39 <paulo> q+
15:36:39 <dcorsar> +1
15:36:40 <olaf> +1
15:36:40 <jun> +1
15:36:40 <SamCoppens> +1
15:36:42 <khalidbelhajjame> +1
15:36:43 <simoninireland> +1
15:36:48 <DavidSchaengold> +1
15:36:49 <paolo_> +1
15:36:52 <martin> +1
15:37:01 <luc> zakim, who is here?
15:37:01 <Zakim> On the phone I see GK, VinhNguyen, GK.a, dgarijo, luc, ??P18, ??P21, +1.518.276.aaaa, ??P41, Jeff_Pan, olaf, Sandro, kai, DavidSchaengold, ??P46, jun, SamCoppens, SatyaSahoo,
15:37:04 <Zakim> ... +30281039aaee, khalidbelhajjame, paolo_, ??P27, paulo, smiles, Lena, [ISI], +1.518.633.aagg
15:37:06 <Zakim> On IRC I see JimMyers, YolandaGil, Lena, zednik, iker, CarlOGC, paulo, SamCoppens, smiles, khalidbelhajjame, paolo_, frew, Satya, kai, Christine, DavidSchaengold, dcorsar, olaf,
15:37:08 <Zakim> ... jun, lebo-rpi, GK, simoninireland, martin, VinhNguyen, dgarijo, pgroth, Zakim, RRSAgent, luc, sandro, trackbot
15:37:20 <kai> +1
15:37:21 <zednik> +1
15:37:22 <VinhNguyen> +1
15:37:27 <luc> q?
15:37:27 <frew> +1
15:37:44 <iker> +1
15:37:53 <dgarijo> paulo: i would like to see how much time are we going to dedicate for the tasks
15:38:11 <paolo_> I was assuming the task forces would report to the F2F for a plenary discussion?!
15:38:18 <dgarijo> ... in the f2f meeting
15:38:32 <dgarijo> Luc: it will be driven by the objectives
15:39:30 <dgarijo> Luc: I will set up an agenda to divide the time for each of the tf
15:39:33 <Satya> +1 (except not sure about the Implementation and Test Cases Task Force objectives)
15:40:10 <dgarijo> Luc: not intended to do the whole work in the f2f
15:40:21 <dgarijo> Luc: it will be the agreement in terminology
15:40:33 <GK> +1 to say I think that having common terminology is vital goal
15:40:36 <dgarijo> Luc: we have to do a lot of discussion in between
15:40:47 <dgarijo> paulo: supports the objectives
15:40:51 <paolo_> +1 to Luc: must of the work to be done before we get to the meeting
15:41:01 <paolo_> s/must/most
15:41:06 <luc> ACCEPTED: objectives for F2F1
15:41:49 <dgarijo> Luc: some of you have suggestions to improve the example
15:42:05 <dgarijo> Luc: useful to hear a short outline of them in the call
15:42:06 <luc> q?
15:42:13 <paulo> q+
15:42:32 <martin> q+
15:42:37 <luc> q?
15:43:14 <dgarijo> paulo: can not discuss properly because of the time of the mail discussions
15:43:26 <luc> q?
15:44:04 <dgarijo> Luc: discussion starts from the ending of the telecon
15:44:19 <dgarijo> Luc: we should not wait till last minute to raise discussions
15:44:47 <sandro> q+
15:44:51 <luc> q?
15:44:56 <smiles> Maybe it has been difficult this past week because of the invited experts only just being included
15:45:08 <luc> ack paulo
15:45:56 <luc> ack sandro
15:45:58 <luc> q?
15:45:59 <GK> If substantive discussions and key consensus forming takes place in email, rather than in telecon, then timezone matters less.
15:46:33 <dgarijo> Luc: the point on mail discussions is to achieve consensus
15:46:34 <luc> ack martin
15:46:54 <luc> q?
15:47:09 <dgarijo> martin: proposes to use provenance info from measurements observations
15:47:33 <lebo-rpi> q+
15:47:34 <dgarijo> martin: vital for scientists to understand the circumstances of the measure
15:47:54 <GK> q+ to say I like being able to deal with measurement provenance; not sure expanding the initial example is best way...
15:48:00 <dgarijo> ... the location of the picture on the example, by who
15:48:02 <luc> q?
15:48:08 <dgarijo> Luc: good extension
15:48:13 <simoninireland> q+
15:48:18 <dgarijo> Luc: plase mail  it to the mailing list
15:48:24 <pgroth> i think it's good
15:48:29 <luc> q?
15:48:38 <luc> ack lebo-rpi
15:49:00 <martin> q+
15:49:13 <Satya>  I agree with martin, we have a relevant paper for provenance of sensor readings: http://knoesis.wright.edu/library/download/SPOT-Provenance_Aware_LSD.pdf
15:49:16 <dgarijo> lebo-rpi: extension to what the newspaper was doing incorporating information from various sources.
15:49:34 <dgarijo> ... for example another charter 
15:49:44 <Satya> +1 for lebo
15:49:55 <Satya> q+
15:50:07 <dgarijo> ... having multiple sources in the same graph
15:50:13 <luc> q?
15:50:18 <pgroth> this could integrate well with martin's proposal 
15:50:21 <khalidbelhajjame> +q
15:50:23 <dgarijo> Luc: great, send a mil also
15:50:41 <pgroth> +q
15:50:41 <lebo-rpi> +1 on keeping this example simple
15:50:58 <luc> q?
15:50:59 <dgarijo> GK: not sure if this is the best way to handle the example. We should introduce more scenarios
15:51:08 <paolo_> +1 for multiple simple scenarios -- or at least make it modular
15:51:10 <luc> ack GK.a
15:51:10 <Zakim> GK.a, you wanted to say I like being able to deal with measurement provenance; not sure expanding the initial example is best way...
15:51:12 <kai> +1
15:51:19 <martin> q+
15:51:19 <pgroth> +1
15:51:23 <lebo-rpi> +1
15:51:34 <luc> q?
15:51:44 <dgarijo> zakim, whi is speaking?
15:51:44 <Zakim> sorry, dgarijo, I do not understand your question
15:51:52 <dgarijo> zakim, who is speaking?
15:51:54 <pgroth> so far this doesn't seem to bad...
15:52:04 <Zakim> dgarijo, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Jeff_Pan (9%)
15:52:14 <zednik> +1 for multiple focused scenarios
15:52:33 <pgroth> these extensions don't look to bad
15:52:41 <luc> q?
15:52:42 <GK> I'm happy with this
15:52:44 <martin> +1
15:52:57 <dgarijo> Luc: we will decide on the mailing list whether we should add new scenarios or simple extensions
15:52:58 <frew> rapid progress on n simple examples > slow progress on 1 complex example
15:53:05 <luc> ack simoninireland
15:53:10 <luc> q?
15:53:23 <luc> ack martin
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15:53:37 <dgarijo> martin: in geenral the provenance problem is a highly interconnected graph
15:53:48 <paulo> q+
15:53:50 <dgarijo> martin: multiple process/products
15:53:55 <luc> q?
15:54:07 <simoninireland> Sorry, I seem to have lost my sound input.....
15:54:11 <dgarijo> ... not sure if the multiplicity adds new concepts
15:54:11 <lebo-rpi> martin suggested having the newspaper add a photograph to bring out measurement provenance - would a reader poll/survey make sense?
15:54:15 <simoninireland> I'll end an email of my comment
15:54:22 <dgarijo> ... it might be an issue of cardinality
15:54:35 <luc> q?
15:54:40 <luc> ack satya
15:54:42 <dgarijo> Luc: that is a discussion for the future
15:54:59 <dgarijo> Satya: we don't need the scenario, but add provenance questions
15:55:15 <Zakim> -??P27
15:55:25 <dgarijo> ... would like to add a sentence to the end of the example
15:55:26 <luc> q?
15:55:49 <GK> +1
15:55:54 <martin> +1 multiplicity is relevant for querying
15:56:00 <luc> q?
15:56:06 <dgarijo> ... will mail the list for other points
15:56:09 <GK> (Need to have consumer for requirements/questions)
15:56:11 <luc> ack khalidbelhajjame
15:56:14 <luc> q?
15:56:52 <lebo-rpi> the "consumer" for my proposed two-source newspaper graph is the reader of the graph. They want to know that attribute X came from the government and attribute Y came from another company.
15:56:52 <dgarijo> khalid: the error detected by the blogger should be part of the provenance
15:56:59 <luc> q?
15:57:06 <dgarijo> I agree with khalid
15:57:22 <luc> q?
15:57:27 <luc> ack pgroth
15:58:01 <dgarijo> pgroth: all suggestions can be included in the example. We have enough to discuss the concepts
15:58:14 <luc> q?
15:58:22 <dgarijo> ... if we see that is not enough we can always go back and edit it
15:59:08 <dgarijo> Luc: the best thing would be to reply the messages in the archive
15:59:13 <luc> q?
15:59:24 <dgarijo> +q
16:00:53 <dgarijo> paulo: i would like to see what are the dimensions not considered right now
16:01:48 <olaf> I have to go - bye
16:01:52 <dgarijo> Luc: the motivation of the example was to discuss the concepts of the charter. We need to share some terminology
16:01:55 <luc> Charter concepts illustration: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-prov-wg/2011May/0018.html
16:01:56 <Zakim> -olaf
16:02:20 <dgarijo> Luc: illustration of the concepts
16:02:36 <dgarijo> luc: lets discuss these concepts by email
16:02:43 <Zakim> -SatyaSahoo
16:02:44 <Zakim> -[ISI]
16:02:45 <Zakim> -??P41
16:02:46 <Zakim> -Jeff_Pan
16:02:47 <Zakim> - +30281039aaee
16:02:47 <Zakim> - +1.518.276.aaaa
16:02:47 <Zakim> - +1.518.633.aagg
16:02:48 <Zakim> -DavidSchaengold
16:02:50 <Zakim> -VinhNguyen
16:02:52 <paolo_> paolo_ has left #prov
16:02:52 <Zakim> -paulo
16:02:54 <Zakim> -kai
16:02:57 <Zakim> -paolo_
16:02:58 <Zakim> -smiles
16:03:00 <Zakim> -??P21
16:03:02 <Zakim> -jun
16:03:05 <Zakim> -??P46
16:03:07 <Zakim> -SamCoppens
16:03:09 <Zakim> -khalidbelhajjame
16:03:13 <Zakim> -??P18
16:03:24 <luc> rrsagent, set log public
16:03:34 <GK> gk@ninebynine.org, gklyne@gmail.com
16:03:36 <Zakim> -dgarijo
16:03:41 <pgroth> pgroth has left #prov
16:03:44 <luc> rrsagent, draft minutes 
16:03:44 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/05/12-prov-minutes.html luc
16:03:46 <Zakim> -GK.a
16:03:52 <luc> trackbot, end telcon 
16:03:52 <trackbot> Sorry, luc, I don't understand 'trackbot, end telcon '. Please refer to http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc for help
16:03:59 <Zakim> -luc
16:04:40 <Zakim> -Lena
16:05:43 <Zakim> -Sandro
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16:35:01 <Zakim> disconnecting the lone participant, GK, in SW_(PROV)11:00AM
16:35:05 <Zakim> SW_(PROV)11:00AM has ended
16:35:07 <Zakim> Attendees were VinhNguyen, dgarijo, luc, +1.518.276.aaaa, Jeff_Pan, olaf, +44.191.245.aabb, Sandro, kai, jun, SatyaSahoo, +30281039aaee, GK, SamCoppens, khalidbelhajjame,
16:35:10 <Zakim> ... DavidSchaengold, paulo, paolo_, smiles, Lena, [ISI], +1.518.633.aagg
17:10:40 <CarlOGC> -CarlOGC
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