IRC log of webapps on 2011-05-11

Timestamps are in UTC.

17:11:24 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #webapps
17:11:24 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/05/11-webapps-irc
17:11:26 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
17:11:26 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #webapps
17:11:28 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be DOM3
17:11:28 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see IA_WebApps(DOM3)2:00PM scheduled to start in 49 minutes
17:11:29 [trackbot]
Meeting: Web Applications Working Group Teleconference
17:11:29 [trackbot]
Date: 11 May 2011
17:11:45 [shepazu]
zakim, room for 3?
17:11:46 [Zakim]
ok, shepazu; conference Team_(webapps)17:11Z scheduled with code 26632 (CONF2) for 60 minutes until 1811Z
17:12:09 [Zakim]
Team_(webapps)17:11Z has now started
17:12:15 [Zakim]
+Doug_Schepers
17:12:16 [Zakim]
+[Microsoft]
17:12:17 [smaug]
let's see if the connection is good enough
17:12:37 [sicking]
sicking has joined #webapps
17:13:00 [Zakim]
+??P4
17:13:10 [smaug]
Zakim, ??P4 is Olli_Pettay
17:13:10 [Zakim]
+Olli_Pettay; got it
17:14:25 [jrossi]
scribenick: jrossi
17:14:29 [shepazu]
Topic: ISSUE-137
17:14:48 [jrossi]
smaug: it *may* fire for IME
17:15:02 [jrossi]
jrossi: yes, seems implementation specific. IE9 doesn't seem to fire at all.
17:15:15 [jrossi]
shepazu: let's add spec text stating that
17:17:05 [jrossi]
resolution: add text to keypress that states this event may not fire for IME input, depending on platform/implementation
17:17:08 [shepazu]
Topic: legacy key events
17:17:17 [shepazu]
http://dev.w3.org/2006/webapi/DOM-Level-3-Events/html/DOM3-Events.html#KeyboardEvent-supplemental-interface
17:18:08 [jrossi]
jrossi: yes, I'm fine with this with the new spec text
17:18:21 [jrossi]
shepazu: I also felt it OK to use WebIDL here since it's non-normative
17:18:23 [jrossi]
jrossi: agree
17:18:26 [jrossi]
smaug: yes, that's fine
17:18:30 [jrossi]
resultion: keep it as is
17:18:52 [jrossi]
Topic: ISSUE-142?
17:18:53 [shepazu]
Topic: ISSUE-142
17:18:57 [jrossi]
ISSUE-142?
17:18:57 [trackbot]
ISSUE-142 -- one keydown might fire multiple keypress/textInput events -- raised
17:18:57 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/track/issues/142
17:24:47 [jrossi]
shepazu: maybe test this with a macro
17:24:58 [jrossi]
jrossi: testing with CTRL+V, we get one textinput
17:25:13 [jrossi]
jrossi: are there dead keys that are macros of multiple characters?
17:25:23 [jrossi]
shepazu: don't see many results from a search for these
17:25:59 [jrossi]
shepazu: I think it should result in only a single textinput event
17:26:39 [jrossi]
jrossi: I'm fine with Hallvord's suggested spec text with the caveat that IE may be broken in some unknown cases. But we probably wouldn't value those scenarios highly and would treat them as bugs.
17:27:14 [jrossi]
smaug: I'm fine with this. We should ask him for clarification though.
17:27:29 [jrossi]
shepazu: I'll follow up with Hallvord to confirm.
17:28:10 [jrossi]
resolution: shepazu will discuss the effect of keypress for multiple characters, but won't change the spec pending some evidence from hallvord
17:28:51 [shepazu]
Topic: onclick after removing element from document during onmouseup
17:29:17 [shepazu]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-dom/2011JanMar/0052.html
17:30:12 [shepazu]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-dom/2011AprJun/thread.html#msg58
17:30:36 [jrossi]
issue-180?
17:30:36 [trackbot]
ISSUE-180 -- onclick after removing element from document during onmouseup -- raised
17:30:36 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/track/issues/180
17:31:52 [shepazu]
https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=60600
17:33:43 [jrossi]
jrossi: IE9 matches Gecko in that we don't fire click events or perform the activation when the element is removed from the document during mouseup
17:34:02 [jrossi]
jrossi: I don't believe it's desirable (or potentially safe) to activate links which have been removed from the document
17:34:05 [jrossi]
smaug: yes, I agree
17:36:59 [jrossi]
http://dev.w3.org/2006/webapi/DOM-Level-3-Events/html/DOM3-Events.html#events-mouseevent-event-order
17:37:14 [jrossi]
smaug: it should probably go in 5.2.3.2 Mouse Event Order
17:37:19 [jrossi]
jrossi: agrees
17:39:21 [jrossi]
<a href="http://www.google.com" id="test">test</a>
17:39:21 [jrossi]
<script>
17:39:21 [jrossi]
var elem = document.getElementById("test");
17:39:21 [jrossi]
elem.addEventListener("mousedown", function(e) {
17:39:21 [jrossi]
alert('mousedown');
17:39:22 [jrossi]
elem.parentNode.removeChild(elem);
17:39:24 [jrossi]
}, false);
17:39:26 [jrossi]
elem.addEventListener("mouseup",function(e){ alert('mouseup');},false);
17:39:28 [jrossi]
elem.addEventListener("click",function(e){ alert('click');},false);
17:39:30 [jrossi]
</script>
17:39:50 [jrossi]
jrossi: this doesn't apply specifically to click, if you remove the element at any point in the sequence then the rest of the sequence is aborted
17:40:16 [shepazu]
"If an element is removed from the DOM between mousedown and mouseup, no events will be dispatched for mouseup, click, or subsequent activation events."
17:45:03 [shepazu]
"A mouseup event may still be dispatched on a different element, depending upon the speed of a 'click' event in the environment."
17:45:56 [shepazu]
"If an element is removed from the DOM between mousedown and mouseup, no events will be dispatched for mouseup, click, or subsequent activation events for that element. A mouseup event will still be dispatched on a different element."
17:47:29 [jrossi]
"If an element is removed from the DOM during the dispatch of mousedown and mouseup, no events will be dispatched for mouseup, click, or subsequent activation events for that element. A mouseup event will still be dispatched on a different element."
17:47:36 [jrossi]
"If an element is removed from the DOM between mousedown or mouseup, no events will be dispatched for mouseup, click, or subsequent activation events for that element. A mouseup event will still be dispatched on a different element."
17:48:02 [jrossi]
"If an element is removed from the DOM dispatch mousedown or mouseup, no events will be dispatched for mouseup, click, or subsequent activation events for that element. A mouseup event will still be dispatched on a different element."
17:48:32 [shepazu]
"If an element is removed from the DOM during the dispatch of a mousedown event, no events for that element will be dispatched for mouseup, click, or subsequent activation events. A mouseup event will still be dispatched on a different element."
17:50:05 [jrossi]
"If an element is removed from the DOM during the mouse events sequence, the remaining events of the sequence will not be fired at that element."
17:50:38 [jrossi]
resolution: add something to the effect of what jrossi typed
17:51:08 [smaug]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-dom/2011AprJun/0025.html
17:53:59 [shepazu]
topic: WebApps-ISSUE-178?
17:54:07 [shepazu]
WebApps-ISSUE-178?
17:54:09 [jrossi]
issue-178?
17:54:09 [trackbot]
ISSUE-178 -- Implementations and DOM Core allow empty string and null event types -- pending review
17:54:09 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/track/issues/178
17:56:03 [jrossi]
jrossi: my recent change removed the requirement that initializing an event with a type of empty string or null should throw an exception
17:56:13 [jrossi]
jrossi: no implementation did that, and there's not really a great reason to
17:56:21 [smaug]
WDC http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/domcore/raw-file/tip/Overview.html#dom-eventtarget-dispatchevent
17:56:31 [jrossi]
jrossi: jonas proposed that empty string not be allowed and instead be the indicator that an event object has yet to be initialized
17:57:42 [jrossi]
jrossi: I replied saying that I didn't think there was any reason type was the correct place to expose such an API. And at any rate, my change lays the ground work for another spec (such as DOM Core) to spec how such an API (to detect whether an object has been initialized) would work.
17:57:54 [jrossi]
jrossi: but that it seems like feature creep to add that to D3E at this point
18:00:05 [jrossi]
smaug: it's not the cleanest way to expose such an API
18:00:58 [jrossi]
shepazu: not a very intuitive way of exposing it, seems like a hack
18:01:04 [jrossi]
jrossi: agree
18:02:07 [jrossi]
resolution: spec is fine as is
18:03:58 [jrossi]
action: shepazu to clean out "issues" marked up in spec text
18:03:59 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-624 - Clean out "issues" marked up in spec text [on Doug Schepers - due 2011-05-18].
18:04:16 [shepazu]
Topic: http://dev.w3.org/2006/webapi/DOM-Level-3-Events/html/DOM3-Events.html#event-type-DOMActivate
18:04:29 [shepazu]
Topic: strange DOMACtivate wording
18:04:30 [shepazu]
http://dev.w3.org/2006/webapi/DOM-Level-3-Events/html/DOM3-Events.html#event-type-DOMActivate
18:08:43 [shepazu]
http://www.w3.org/TR/DOM-Level-2-Events/events.html
18:12:23 [jrossi]
<a href="http://www.google.com" id="test">test</a>
18:12:23 [jrossi]
<script>
18:12:23 [jrossi]
var elem = document.getElementById("test");
18:12:23 [jrossi]
elem.addEventListener("DOMActivate", function(e) {
18:12:23 [jrossi]
console.log(e.detail);
18:12:23 [jrossi]
e.preventDefault();
18:12:25 [jrossi]
}, false);
18:12:27 [jrossi]
</script>
18:13:01 [jrossi]
jrossi: don't see a detail property in FF for DOMActivate anyway
18:19:00 [jrossi]
topic: Next Steps
18:19:14 [jrossi]
shepazu: I can close out these issues we discussed today
18:20:16 [jrossi]
jrossi: then will you send mail to Art and the WG list to ask for a CfC?
18:20:21 [jrossi]
shepazu: sure
18:20:34 [jrossi]
topic: DOM Core
18:22:17 [jrossi]
shepazu: are there any outstanding descrpancies between DOM Core and D3E?
18:22:22 [jrossi]
jrossi: not that I'm aware of
18:22:38 [jrossi]
jrossi: we covered those last week (and then rehashed one issue today)
18:22:48 [jrossi]
shepazu: smaug, you checked this?
18:23:43 [jrossi]
smaug: yes, we fixed these issues (dispatch through non DOM trees, emptystring/null event types, keeping EventException). I'm not aware of any others.
18:24:52 [jrossi]
shepazu: then I'll withdraw my objection to publication of DOM4 Core
18:25:47 [Zakim]
-[Microsoft]
18:25:48 [Zakim]
-Olli_Pettay
18:25:49 [Zakim]
-Doug_Schepers
18:25:49 [Zakim]
Team_(webapps)17:11Z has ended
18:25:50 [Zakim]
Attendees were Doug_Schepers, [Microsoft], Olli_Pettay
18:50:32 [shepazu]
trackbot, end telcon?
18:50:32 [trackbot]
Sorry, shepazu, I don't understand 'trackbot, end telcon?'. Please refer to http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc for help
18:50:39 [shepazu]
tracbot, end telcon
18:50:49 [shepazu]
trackbot, end telcon
18:50:49 [trackbot]
Zakim, list attendees
18:50:49 [Zakim]
sorry, trackbot, I don't know what conference this is
18:50:50 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, please draft minutes
18:50:50 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/05/11-webapps-minutes.html trackbot
18:50:51 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, bye
18:50:51 [RRSAgent]
I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2011/05/11-webapps-actions.rdf :
18:50:51 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: shepazu to clean out "issues" marked up in spec text [1]
18:50:51 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/05/11-webapps-irc#T18-03-58