IRC log of xproc on 2011-05-05

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:55:37 [RRSAgent]
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logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/05/05-xproc-irc
13:55:42 [Norm]
zakim, this will be xproc
13:55:42 [Zakim]
ok, Norm; I see XML_PMWG()10:00AM scheduled to start in 5 minutes
13:55:47 [Norm]
Meeting: XML Processing Model WG
13:55:47 [Norm]
Date: 5 May 2011
13:55:47 [Norm]
Agenda: http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2011/05/05-agenda
13:55:47 [Norm]
Meeting: 193
13:55:47 [Norm]
Chair: Norm
13:55:48 [Norm]
Scribe: Norm
13:55:50 [Norm]
ScribeNick: Norm
13:56:19 [Norm]
Norm has changed the topic to: XProc WG meets 5 May 2011: http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2011/05/05-agenda (Norm)
13:57:41 [Zakim]
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+??P3
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13:58:19 [Norm]
zakim, what's the passcode?
13:58:19 [Zakim]
the conference code is 97762 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), Norm
13:58:19 [MoZ]
Zakim, code?
13:58:21 [Zakim]
the conference code is 97762 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), MoZ
13:58:24 [Zakim]
-??P3
13:58:25 [Zakim]
XML_PMWG()10:00AM has ended
13:58:25 [Zakim]
Attendees were
13:58:33 [Zakim]
XML_PMWG()10:00AM has now started
13:58:37 [Norm]
zakim, this is xproc
13:58:37 [Zakim]
Norm, this was already XML_PMWG()10:00AM
13:58:38 [Zakim]
ok, Norm; that matches XML_PMWG()10:00AM
13:58:40 [Zakim]
+Norm
13:59:04 [Norm]
Regrets: Paul, Vojtech
13:59:11 [Zakim]
+??P10
13:59:20 [Norm]
zakim, ??P10 is jfuller
13:59:28 [Zakim]
+jfuller; got it
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14:01:11 [Zakim]
+Alex_Milows
14:01:13 [Norm]
Ugh.
14:03:43 [ht]
zakim, code?
14:03:44 [Zakim]
the conference code is 97762 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), ht
14:04:07 [ht]
hmmm
14:04:36 [Zakim]
+??P35
14:04:42 [ht]
zakim, ? is me
14:04:42 [Zakim]
+ht; got it
14:04:54 [Norm]
Present: Norm, Jim, Henry, Alex
14:05:24 [Norm]
Present: Norm, Jim, Henry, Alex, Mohamed (via IRC)
14:05:35 [Norm]
Topic: Accept this agenda?
14:05:35 [Norm]
-> http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2011/05/05-agenda.html
14:05:40 [Norm]
Accepted.
14:05:45 [Norm]
Topic: Accept minutes from the previous meeting?
14:05:45 [Norm]
-> http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2011/04/21-minutes.html
14:05:53 [Norm]
Accepted.
14:06:05 [Norm]
Topic: Next meeting: telcon, 26 May 2011?
14:06:18 [Zakim]
+Murray_Maloney
14:06:24 [Norm]
Norm proposes to cancel 12 and 19 May
14:06:44 [Norm]
Present: Norm, Jim, Henry, Alex, Murray, Mohamed (via IRC)
14:07:03 [Norm]
Topic: Processor profiles discussion
14:08:48 [Norm]
Norm: I haven't got anything new, but given that I'm canceling two week's meetings I thought we should have a meeting.
14:10:15 [Norm]
Murray: I'd like to observe a logical inconsistency that keeps happening. Some time ago, XML was developed. Lots of folks are using angle bracket stuff that isn't really XML and calling it XML.
14:10:41 [Norm]
...You could fork on the standalone attribute. It seems to me that since this is the XML Processing Model WG, we should have a profile that does XML.
14:12:23 [Norm]
Some discussion of what exactly is out there (HTML excepted) that's called XML that isn't well formed.
14:13:44 [ht]
q+ to come back to standalone
14:13:57 [Norm]
Norm: Ok, then I think a profile that does DTD validation would satisfy you, yes?
14:14:00 [Norm]
Murray: I think so.
14:14:29 [Norm]
Henry: We talked about DTD validation several months ago and decided against it. I'm not immediately persuaded to go that way now.
14:15:00 [Norm]
...There was some sentiment that we shouldn't be encouraging DTDs.
14:15:56 [Norm]
Murray: But we're the XML Processing Model WG. We should either go back and say that XML should change or we should support validation. All I'm saying is that as we traveld own this road, we keep dropping things. There are probably lots of reasons to do that, but it just occurs to me that this is XML processing and one of the things you can do is validation.
14:17:25 [Norm]
Norm: I suppose having a profile that does validation is a logical profile.
14:18:10 [Norm]
Henry: I think there's a sort of cross product. I'm not sure that validation could be added to several of these profiles.
14:18:47 [Norm]
...The profiles as they stand are necessarily nested within each other. If we define a further one, which is one of them plus validation, the question arises what about adding it to the others.
14:19:35 [Norm]
Norm: Henry, if you're willing to look at the spec costs, that would be good.
14:19:55 [Norm]
...It probably only makes sense to add validation to the profile that reads the external subset.
14:20:09 [Norm]
Henry: Why? There are documents that carry their DTDs in their internal subset.
14:20:17 [Norm]
Norm: Hmm. Yeah.
14:20:25 [Norm]
Murray asks about profiles that have optional steps.
14:20:36 [Norm]
Henry: We don't really have those, that would have a high cost.
14:20:51 [Norm]
Alex: If you're using DTDs, you're in a particular world. I don't think we can necessarily satisfy everyone out there.
14:20:58 [jfuller]
is http://www.w3.org/TR/xml-proc-profiles/ latest draft ?
14:21:16 [Norm]
yes
14:21:39 [Norm]
Alex: Maybe we could try to satisfy just a subset of that world: DTDs without namespaces, for example.
14:22:04 [Norm]
ACTION: Henry to review the spec to see what the cost would be of adding validation.
14:23:58 [Norm]
Norm mentions that XInclude is no longer in the profiles per the 21 April discussion.
14:24:33 [Norm]
Murray: Hey, I need XInclude for GRRDL.
14:25:24 [Norm]
Murray: I wonder whether the name of the profile could be more descriptive of what it includes. So "browser's in 2011", "xml valid", etc.
14:26:21 [Norm]
Norm: Yeah, Recommended was probably a mistake.
14:26:39 [Norm]
Alex: I agree. I think we really should have a profile that's intended for web browsers.
14:27:08 [Norm]
...that has the word "Browser" in the title.
14:28:36 [Norm]
Some discussion of XML in browsers...
14:37:31 [Norm]
Some discussion of whether there should be a profile for what each of the browsers do.
14:38:53 [Norm]
Murray: Possibly in non-normative appendixes.
14:39:04 [Norm]
Murray: I'd like a chance to think about this offline.
14:39:53 [Norm]
Norm: Let's take this up again at the next meeting.
14:40:00 [Norm]
Murray: And getting XInclude back.
14:42:27 [Norm]
Henry: We also need to reply to comments.
14:43:13 [Norm]
Murray: We have WG meetings in Toronto preceding Balisage. Would anyone like to have a f2f in between?
14:43:17 [Norm]
Henry: Not sure I could go.
14:44:31 [Norm]
Topic: Any other business?
14:44:38 [Norm]
None heard.
14:44:41 [Norm]
Adjourned
14:44:44 [Zakim]
-Murray_Maloney
14:44:46 [Zakim]
-Norm
14:44:46 [Zakim]
-jfuller
14:44:47 [Norm]
rrsagent, set logs world-visible
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-Alex_Milows
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-ht
14:44:50 [Norm]
rrsagent, draft minutes
14:44:50 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/05/05-xproc-minutes.html Norm
14:44:51 [Zakim]
XML_PMWG()10:00AM has ended
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Attendees were Norm, jfuller, Alex_Milows, ht, Murray_Maloney
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