13:58:44 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #rdfa
13:58:44 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/05/05-rdfa-irc
13:58:46 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
13:58:46 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #rdfa
13:58:48 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 7332
13:58:48 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFa()10:00AM scheduled to start in 2 minutes
13:58:49 <trackbot> Meeting: RDF Web Applications Working Group Teleconference
13:58:49 <trackbot> Date: 05 May 2011
13:58:56 <manu> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdfa-wg/2011May/0028.html
13:58:59 <manu> Chair: Manu
13:59:57 <Zakim> SW_RDFa()10:00AM has now started
14:00:04 <Zakim> + +1.612.217.aaaa
14:00:10 <ShaneM> zakim, I am aaaa
14:00:10 <Zakim> +ShaneM; got it
14:00:23 <Zakim> +??P16
14:00:26 <manu> zakim, I am ??P16
14:00:26 <Zakim> +manu; got it
14:00:50 <Benjamin> Benjamin has joined #rdfa
14:01:06 <Zakim> + +3539149aabb
14:01:20 <Knud> zakim, I am +aabb
14:01:20 <Zakim> sorry, Knud, I do not see a party named '+aabb'
14:01:24 <MacTed> Zakim, code?
14:01:24 <Zakim> the conference code is 7332 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), MacTed
14:01:30 <Zakim> +??P25
14:01:41 <Knud> zakim, I am aabb
14:01:41 <Zakim> +Knud; got it
14:01:42 <Zakim> +Kingsley_Idehen
14:01:49 <MacTed> Zakim, Kingsley_Idehen is OpenLink_Software
14:01:50 <Zakim> +OpenLink_Software; got it
14:01:56 <MacTed> Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me
14:01:56 <Zakim> +MacTed; got it
14:01:56 <Benjamin> zakim, i am +??P25
14:01:56 <Zakim> sorry, Benjamin, I do not see a party named '+??P25'
14:01:59 <MacTed> :-)
14:02:16 <MacTed> Zakim, who's here?
14:02:16 <Zakim> On the phone I see ShaneM, manu, Knud, ??P25, MacTed
14:02:17 <Zakim> On IRC I see Benjamin, Zakim, RRSAgent, Knud, ShaneM, MacTed, danbri, manu, ivan, webr3, manu1, trackbot
14:02:20 <Knud> zakim, mute me
14:02:20 <Zakim> Knud should now be muted
14:02:22 <MacTed> Zakim, who's noisy?
14:02:23 <manu> zakim, who is making noise?
14:02:33 <Zakim> MacTed, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: ShaneM (14%), manu (22%), ??P25 (75%)
14:02:43 <Zakim> manu, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: manu (15%), MacTed (19%), ??P25 (48%)
14:02:47 <MacTed> Zakim, ??p25 is Benjamin
14:02:47 <Zakim> +Benjamin; got it
14:03:00 <Benjamin> zakim, mute me
14:03:00 <Zakim> Benjamin should now be muted
14:03:16 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me
14:03:18 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted
14:04:07 <manu> Scribe: Knud
14:04:21 <manu> scribenick: Knud
14:05:18 <Knud> Manu: paceworm developer sandbox going live
14:05:24 <manu> PaySwarm
14:05:27 <Knud> lol
14:05:39 <Zakim> +??P36
14:05:41 <ShaneM> (I heard paceworm too)
14:05:42 <Knud> r/paceworm/PaySwarm
14:05:53 <Knud> s/paceworm/PaySwarm
14:05:58 <webr3> zakim, i am ??p36
14:05:58 <Zakim> +webr3; got it
14:06:51 <manu> Topic: Publish the RDF Interfaces spec as a FPWD
14:06:57 <manu> http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/sources/rdf-interfaces/
14:07:04 <Knud> http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/sources/rdf-interfaces/
14:07:06 <webr3> -> http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/sources/rdf-interfaces/Overview-src.html
14:07:16 <Knud> Nathan giving update of latest changes
14:07:26 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip
14:07:26 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made
14:07:27 <Zakim> +Ivan
14:07:41 <Zakim> -Benjamin
14:07:44 <Knud> Nathan: small changes based on feedback
14:07:53 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip
14:07:53 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made
14:07:54 <Zakim> +Ivan.a
14:08:13 <Zakim> +??P43
14:08:23 <Benjamin> zakim, i am ??P43
14:08:23 <Zakim> +Benjamin; got it
14:08:30 <Zakim> -Ivan
14:08:35 <Benjamin> zakim, who is making noise?
14:08:46 <Zakim> Benjamin, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: manu (28%), webr3 (20%), Benjamin (89%)
14:08:48 <Benjamin> zakim, mute me
14:08:49 <Zakim> Benjamin should now be muted
14:09:20 <Knud> Nathan: is "property" a keyword in python?
14:09:29 <Knud> Ivan: no, it's not, no problem to use it
14:09:56 <manu> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/4621718/python-how-to-unshadow-the-keyword-property
14:09:57 <Knud> Nathan: property currently changed to "predicate"
14:10:34 <Knud> ivan: can't see property keyword in official documentation of python
14:10:57 <Knud> : maybe python 3...
14:11:38 <ivan> http://docs.python.org/release/3.1.3/reference/lexical_analysis.html
14:11:45 <Knud> manu: anyway, we can publish now and change it later, if we have to
14:11:47 <webr3> -> 2.7 http://docs.python.org/reference/lexical_analysis.html#keywords
14:12:27 <webr3> what would we prefer? .property or .predicate
14:12:47 <Knud> ivan: if 2.7 doesn't have property keyword, then 2.4 doesn't either
14:13:08 <manu> http://kbyanc.blogspot.com/2007/06/python-property-attribute-tricks.html
14:13:17 <Knud> manu: "property" if a built-in function
14:13:23 <Knud> s/if/is
14:13:51 <Knud> manu: do we want to keep the spec for this?
14:14:13 <Knud> s/keep/change
14:15:06 <Knud> manu: in past discussions, we noted that some people have a problem with the term "predicate"
14:15:42 <webr3> i can't see anybody who's going to be using or implementing this API having a problem with 'predicate' (personally)
14:16:22 <Knud> ivan: predicate or property won't make a big difference for RDF community
14:16:37 <MacTed> Zakim, unmute me
14:16:37 <Zakim> MacTed should no longer be muted
14:16:52 <webr3> property = rdf predicates and html rels - joined
14:17:43 <Knud> ivan: "property" for an RDFa person might have a restricted meaning, because of we have @property and @rel
14:18:59 <Knud> ted: "attribute" might be universally understood
14:19:03 <webr3> +1 predicate
14:19:53 <Knud> Manu: any concerns for publishing the spec as FPWD?
14:20:23 <Knud> Ivan: no - whatever we handle today, we handle today. The rest can be in the next version of the spec
14:21:03 <webr3> RDFNode.value (sorry only be a second)
14:21:47 <Knud> Ivan: RDFNode.value naming is still under debate
14:22:37 <Knud> Ivan: name, lexicalValue, … are possibilities, but we didn't really like any of them 
14:23:22 <Knud> Manu: maybe use lexicalValue temporarily, see if community is happy with it?
14:24:12 <Knud> Ted: still missing an explicit warning that this whole spec might still change a lot
14:24:25 <Knud> : even though it is already labelled "working draft"
14:25:43 <Knud> ivan: however, the overall structure is pretty stable
14:26:02 <Zakim> -ShaneM
14:26:02 <Knud> manu: were triplesets taken out entirely?
14:26:07 <Knud> nathan: yes, they were
14:27:38 <Zakim> +McCarron
14:27:41 <Knud> ivan: there could be text saying that "RDF WG is working on graph naming - this might find its way into this spec also"
14:28:36 <manu> PROPOSAL: Publish the RDF Interfaces as a FPWD, including changes discussed today, with a target publication date of May 10th 2011.
14:28:51 <manu> PROPOSAL: Publish the RDF Interfaces as a FPWD, including changes discussed today, with a short-name of rdf-interfaces, with a target publication date of May 10th 2011.
14:28:54 <ivan> +1
14:28:57 <webr3> +1
14:28:58 <manu> +1
14:28:58 <Benjamin> +1
14:29:00 <Knud> +1
14:29:10 <manu> Shane: +1
14:29:13 <Knud> Shane: +1
14:29:28 <MacTed> +1
14:29:41 <manu> RESOLVED: Publish the RDF Interfaces as a FPWD, including changes discussed today, with a short-name of rdf-interfaces, with a target publication date of May 10th 2011.
14:30:15 <manu> Topic: Scheduling RDFa Core and XHTML+RDFa Candidate Recommendation
14:30:56 <webr3> q+ to say oops, may be a problem with lexicalValue
14:31:02 <ivan> q+
14:31:07 <Knud> manu: 2nd last call exited without any major criticism
14:31:09 <manu> ack webr3
14:31:09 <Zakim> webr3, you wanted to say oops, may be a problem with lexicalValue
14:32:02 <Knud> nathan: "lexicalValue" not good choice for b-nodes
14:33:01 <Knud> nathan: how about keeping "value" and "valueOf", as it is now?
14:33:08 <Knud> ivan: no, that's too misleading
14:34:28 <Knud> (lots of ideas being thrown around)
14:34:34 <Knud> manu: nominalValue?
14:34:42 <Knud> ivan: hm, not bad
14:35:53 <Knud> ivan: maybe put an issue in the document to indicate that this term might change
14:36:23 <Zakim> -McCarron
14:36:38 <manu> ISSUE: Figure out a word to use when referring to the 'value' of a RDFNode
14:36:38 <trackbot> Created ISSUE-95 - Figure out a word to use when referring to the 'value' of a RDFNode ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/issues/95/edit .
14:36:45 <Zakim> +McCarron
14:37:13 <ivan> q+
14:37:25 <manu> ack ivan
14:37:34 <Knud> Topic: Scheduling RDFa Core and XHTML+RDFa Candidate Recommendation
14:37:54 <Knud> manu: any preference as to the order of publishing these and the RDF API
14:38:31 <ShaneM> ShaneM has joined #rdfa
14:38:56 <Benjamin> http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/sources/rdf-api/
14:39:08 <Knud> ivan: we should be careful about this. We should publish all parts of the API (RDF API, RDFa API, RDF Interfaces) together.
14:39:34 <Benjamin> zakim, unmute me
14:39:34 <Zakim> Benjamin should no longer be muted
14:39:58 <Knud> Benjamin: document cleaned
14:41:24 <Knud> : some things still need to be done
14:41:51 <webr3> I can do fpwd for interfaces any-time, I've just made all the changes bar adding a note about graph identifiers - can help benjamin w/ rdf-api from tomorrow if that helps
14:41:51 <Knud> Manu: I think we should really reserve two weeks for this
14:43:16 <Benjamin> zakim, mute me
14:43:16 <Zakim> Benjamin should now be muted
14:44:17 <Knud> Ivan: why not publish as FPWD as soon as possible, with the caveat that some issues might still need to be resolved afterwards
14:44:33 <Knud> manu: let's see where we stand in a week
14:45:34 <Knud> manu: some issues need to be handled still for RDFa Core Candidate Rec
14:45:43 <ShaneM> 'the w3c tax'
14:46:32 <Knud> Manu: IRI vs URI, CURIE/URI value space collision, fragment id comment from TAG
14:46:56 <webr3> iirc - both of those have equiv issues open on the RDF WG too
14:48:01 <Knud> ivan: CURIE/URI value space collision problem seems to be the one that really needs work
14:50:41 <Knud> manu: benjamin and nathan and ivan will work on RDF API FPWD for next week or the week after
14:52:01 <Knud> shane: can we have optional test cases for @role?
14:52:06 <Knud> manu: yes, we can do that
14:52:32 <webr3> tc all - thanks :)
14:52:41 <Zakim> -webr3
14:52:43 <Knud> manu: you can commit test cases via github - maun and ivan are the contact points for access rights
14:53:22 <manu> Topic: CURIEorURI Value Space Collisions
14:53:27 <manu> http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/issues/90
14:53:53 <manu> Niklas Lindström: The Working Group should consider whether or not CURIEs should be further restricted in order to not conflict with future Internet protocol schemes.
14:54:00 <manu> For instance, not allowing CURIEs in that space to use anything after the prefix+':' other than say an isegment-nz-nc from RFC 3987, or something to that effect (like a "[A-Za-z0-9_-.]+" regexp).
14:54:23 <Knud> ivan: sounds like a very rare problem
14:55:24 <ivan> db:resource/RRR
14:56:43 <manu> anything that starts w/ // is a URL
14:56:54 <manu> foo:// 
14:57:20 <manu> fails for sip:msporny@digitalbazaar.com
14:58:32 <manu> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdfa-wg/2011Apr/0046.html
15:03:30 <Zakim> -Knud
15:04:36 <manu> ACTION: Respond to Niklas about ISSUE-90 - backwards compat issues, Shane's response and dbpedia example.
15:04:36 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - Respond
15:05:13 <MacTed> ACTION: manu to respond to Niklas about ISSUE-90 - backwards compat issues, Shane's response and dbpedia example.
15:05:13 <trackbot> Created ACTION-75 - Respond to Niklas about ISSUE-90 - backwards compat issues, Shane's response and dbpedia example. [on Manu Sporny - due 2011-05-12].
15:05:20 <MacTed> RRSAgent, forget action 1
15:05:20 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'forget action 1', MacTed.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
15:05:23 <Benjamin> bye
15:05:24 <Zakim> -Ivan.a
15:05:25 <Zakim> -manu
15:05:25 <Zakim> -McCarron
15:05:26 <MacTed> RRSAgent, drop action 1
15:05:35 <Zakim> -Benjamin
15:05:36 <Zakim> SW_RDFa()10:00AM has ended
15:05:38 <Zakim> Attendees were +1.612.217.aaaa, ShaneM, manu, +3539149aabb, Knud, MacTed, Benjamin, webr3, Ivan, Ivan.a, McCarron
15:05:44 <manu> ACTION: Manu to respond to Niklas about ISSUE-90 - backwards compat issues, Shane's response and dbpedia example.
15:05:44 <trackbot> Created ACTION-76 - Respond to Niklas about ISSUE-90 - backwards compat issues, Shane's response and dbpedia example. [on Manu Sporny - due 2011-05-12].
15:05:58 <MacTed> *heh*  now you have 2!  :-)
15:09:15 <MacTed> I am stealthy in plain sight.
15:09:32 <manu> an IRC ninja...
15:24:10 <ShaneM> ShaneM has left #rdfa
15:55:36 <ShaneM> ShaneM has joined #rdfa
15:56:31 <ShaneM> ShaneM has left #rdfa
16:46:17 <Zakim> Zakim has left #rdfa
16:46:24 <manu> rrsagent, bye
16:46:24 <RRSAgent> I see 2 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2011/05/05-rdfa-actions.rdf :
16:46:24 <RRSAgent> ACTION: manu to respond to Niklas about ISSUE-90 - backwards compat issues, Shane's response and dbpedia example. [2]
16:46:24 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/05/05-rdfa-irc#T15-05-13
16:46:24 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Manu to respond to Niklas about ISSUE-90 - backwards compat issues, Shane's response and dbpedia example. [3]
16:46:24 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/05/05-rdfa-irc#T15-05-44