IRC log of lld on 2011-05-05

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:45:34 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #lld
13:45:34 [RRSAgent]
logging to
13:45:40 [antoine]
rrsagent, bookmark
13:45:40 [RRSAgent]
13:45:46 [antoine]
zakim, this will be lld
13:45:46 [Zakim]
ok, antoine; I see INC_LLDXG()10:00AM scheduled to start in 15 minutes
13:45:52 [antoine]
Meeting: LLD XG
13:45:58 [antoine]
Chair: Antoine
13:46:44 [antoine]
13:46:59 [antoine]
13:47:40 [antoine]
Regrets: Ray, Ross, Joachim, Marcia
13:47:48 [antoine]
rrsagent, please make record public
13:47:59 [antoine]
rrsagent, please draft minutes
13:47:59 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate antoine
13:52:13 [antoine]
Regrets+ Lars
13:54:23 [fsasaki]
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13:54:53 [AlexanderH]
AlexanderH has joined #lld
13:55:54 [Zakim]
INC_LLDXG()10:00AM has now started
13:56:01 [Zakim]
13:56:12 [antoine]
zakim, ??P2 is me
13:56:12 [Zakim]
+antoine; got it
13:57:00 [kcoyle]
kcoyle has joined #lld
13:57:09 [jeff_]
jeff_ has joined #lld
13:57:17 [emma]
emma has joined #lld
13:57:47 [Zakim]
13:57:48 [uldis]
uldis has joined #lld
13:57:53 [uldis]
13:58:04 [Zakim]
13:58:06 [antoine]
zakim, ??P4 is kcoyle
13:58:06 [Zakim]
+kcoyle; got it
13:58:11 [michaelp]
michaelp has joined #lld
13:58:11 [edsu]
zakim, LC is edsu
13:58:11 [Zakim]
+edsu; got it
13:58:23 [pmurray]
pmurray has joined #lld
13:58:41 [Zakim]
13:58:46 [antoine]
Scribe: Ed
13:58:49 [Zakim]
+ +
13:58:54 [Zakim]
+ +1.614.764.aabb
13:58:54 [TomB]
TomB has joined #lld
13:58:57 [emma]
zakim, aaaa is me
13:58:57 [Zakim]
+emma; got it
13:58:59 [antoine]
Scribenick: edsu
13:59:11 [antoine]
zakim, ??P6 is AlexanderH
13:59:15 [Zakim]
+AlexanderH; got it
13:59:37 [pmurray]
Unexpected regrets for today. Last minute family doctor's appt.
13:59:38 [Zakim]
13:59:41 [uldis]
zakim, ??P11 is me
13:59:41 [Zakim]
+uldis; got it
13:59:49 [GordonD]
GordonD has joined #lld
13:59:53 [Zakim]
13:59:55 [antoine]
Regrets+ Peter
14:00:05 [antoine]
zakim, michaelp.a is jeff_
14:00:05 [Zakim]
+jeff_; got it
14:00:13 [antoine]
zakim, who is here?
14:00:13 [Zakim]
On the phone I see antoine, kcoyle, edsu, AlexanderH, emma, michaelp, uldis, jeff_
14:00:15 [Zakim]
14:00:59 [Zakim]
14:01:06 [Zakim]
+Tom_Baker (was ??P19)
14:01:26 [Zakim]
14:01:32 [jeff_]
zakim, mute me
14:01:32 [Zakim]
jeff_ should now be muted
14:01:43 [antoine]
zakim, ??P24 is GordonD
14:01:44 [Zakim]
+GordonD; got it
14:02:04 [antoine]
rrsagent, please draft minutes
14:02:04 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate antoine
14:02:28 [dvilasuero]
dvilasuero has joined #lld
14:02:39 [edsu]
Topic: Admin
14:02:53 [jodi]
jodi has joined #LLD
14:03:19 [edsu]
RESOLVED To accept
14:03:26 [Zakim]
+ +1.763.463.aacc
14:03:31 [edsu]
14:03:37 [antoine]
zakim, aacc is jodi
14:03:37 [Zakim]
+jodi; got it
14:03:37 [jodi]
zakim, aacc is Jodi
14:03:38 [Zakim]
sorry, jodi, I do not recognize a party named 'aacc'
14:03:46 [monica]
monica has joined #lld
14:03:53 [Zakim]
+ +44.194.346.aadd
14:04:30 [edsu]
antoine: we have a few reasons for wanting a charter extension
14:04:53 [kefo]
kefo has joined #lld
14:04:57 [Zakim]
14:04:58 [kefo]
zakim, LC is me
14:04:58 [Zakim]
+kefo; got it
14:05:01 [edsu]
... we believe some more time would get us some time for a wider set of readers outside of this group, on the public discussion list and the lod-lam summit
14:05:07 [monica]
zakim aadd is monica
14:05:18 [kefo]
zakim, mute me plaese
14:05:18 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'mute me plaese', kefo
14:05:21 [kefo]
zakim, mute me
14:05:21 [Zakim]
kefo should now be muted
14:05:54 [edsu]
... we also will have harry halpin talking about w3c community groups next week, and would like some more time to think about and discuss this and other options
14:06:04 [edsu]
... is everyone ok with that, any objections?
14:06:28 [edsu]
14:06:33 [jodi]
14:06:37 [GordonD]
+1 for charter extension
14:06:41 [uldis]
14:06:43 [emma]
q+ to ask about telecons
14:06:51 [michaelp]
+1 for extension
14:06:58 [antoine]
zakim, ack emma
14:06:58 [Zakim]
emma, you wanted to ask about telecons
14:07:00 [dvilasuero]
+1 for charter extension (having problems with my ip caller)
14:07:00 [Zakim]
I see no one on the speaker queue
14:07:01 [TomB]
+1 for extension
14:07:10 [edsu]
emma: are we going to maintain the weekly teleconferences during the summer?
14:07:29 [TomB]
+1 one call every two weeks
14:07:34 [edsu]
antoine: perhaps one call every two weeks would be more than enough
14:07:49 [GordonD]
+1 for call every two weeks
14:07:55 [edsu]
... we don't need to meet every week for the continuation of the work
14:08:01 [edsu]
emma: i agree, that would be good
14:08:32 [edsu]
antoine: if we don't get any serious objection on the list in the next 2 or 3 days, i think tom, emma and myself will ask for the extension
14:08:47 [dvilasuero]
+1 for bi-weekly calls
14:08:57 [edsu]
... the current teleconf schedule ends in may, we will be working on that
14:09:04 [edsu]
Topic: Final Report Draft
14:09:11 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate emma
14:09:17 [emma]
zakim, please mute me
14:09:17 [Zakim]
emma should now be muted
14:09:39 [edsu]
antoine: the benefits section, a little report?
14:09:48 [emma]
zakim, unmute me
14:09:48 [Zakim]
emma should no longer be muted
14:10:10 [antoine]
ed: no progress since last call
14:10:19 [antoine]
... Tom has put content
14:10:29 [kcoyle]
14:10:34 [antoine]
... it's largely there
14:10:58 [emma]
14:11:01 [edsu]
antoine: feel free to send an email to get some reviewers
14:11:09 [antoine]
zakim, ack kcoyle
14:11:09 [Zakim]
I see no one on the speaker queue
14:11:15 [edsu]
kcoyle: we discussed the benefits at one of the recommendation calls
14:11:26 [TomB]
q+ to point out that the Scope section has been penciled in but needs to be written
14:11:35 [edsu]
... the globally unique identifiers needs to be more specific for libraries
14:11:37 [TomB]
14:11:48 [edsu]
... not general benefits
14:12:25 [emma]
I can give it a try maybe
14:12:31 [jodi]
Thanks Emma!
14:12:47 [antoine]
kcoyle: we need someone from the benefits section to help us
14:13:04 [jodi]
q+ "benefits *to* libraries"
14:13:13 [jodi]
14:13:24 [antoine]
zakim, q?
14:13:24 [Zakim]
I see TomB, "benefits, *to*, libraries" on the speaker queue
14:13:25 [edsu]
kcoyle: needs to be specific to those institutions
14:13:33 [emma]
q+ jodi
14:13:38 [jodi]
thanks emma!
14:13:42 [jodi]
q- "benefits"
14:13:42 [emma]
q- "benefits"
14:14:04 [emma]
q- *to*
14:14:11 [emma]
q- libraries"
14:14:18 [edsu]
14:14:19 [antoine]
edsu: ross come with a paragraph
14:14:19 [emma]
q- "benefits
14:14:30 [antoine]
kcoyle: that's what I'm looking for
14:15:03 [antoine]
edsu: there's a bit in the benefits for researchers, patrons etc.
14:15:13 [antoine]
... that talks about the benefits of making data more available
14:15:19 [antoine]
.. is that it?
14:15:39 [antoine]
kcoyle: we want to emphasize the benefits for libraries
14:15:42 [TomB]
14:15:43 [TomB]
Tom: The Issues/Recommendations group thinks this section may be too general and that points in this section could be reworded to emphasize the benefits for Libraries and Library Data: greater visibility for library data, and re-use of library data. The more data is re-used, the more value it has. And libraries able to provide services - e.g., researchers add citations into their papers...
14:15:45 [TomB]
...directly from library. Libraries need to be more visible in order to justify.
14:15:46 [TomB]
14:15:59 [antoine]
zakim, ack TomB
14:15:59 [Zakim]
TomB, you wanted to point out that the Scope section has been penciled in but needs to be written
14:16:02 [Zakim]
I see jodi on the speaker queue
14:17:18 [dvilasuero]
dvilasuero has joined #lld
14:17:36 [kcoyle]
def. of lib (DRAFT) Library in this report refers to an agent which administers a collection of information resources curated for a designated community and provides services around those resources. Collections may be public or private, large or small, and are not limited to any particular types of resources. Collection and preservation of resources are key functions of libraries that are...
14:17:37 [kcoyle]
...not shared widely in the information space and therefore are given particular attention.
14:18:44 [antoine]
edsu: there is sentence on the scope in the benefits: works, persons, concepts
14:18:53 [antoine]
... can't it answer what is library LD?
14:20:21 [emma]
TomB: it's more about the motivations of libraries as intitutions
14:20:28 [jodi]
q- jodi
14:20:33 [Zakim]
14:20:53 [edsu]
TomB: greater visibility, more reused the more valuable, etc
14:21:04 [edsu]
... libraries increasing their relevance
14:21:04 [jodi]
Tom made my point: focusing on the *why* for libraries -- the benefits from the perspective of a library organization
14:21:15 [emma]
TomB: better services for data, facilitating reuse of data, increasing visibility & relevance, that sort of things
14:21:41 [edsu]
... pitching things so that decision makers will understand it
14:21:46 [emma]
kcoyle: target library managers
14:22:08 [jodi]
hopefully we'll get a library director or two to read this section during our review period to get some feedback
14:22:54 [edsu]
antoine: maybe the owners of the document can use these comments to revise the document for next week
14:23:00 [emma]
ok for me
14:23:17 [emma]
good idea, Jodi, +1 !
14:23:19 [antoine]
zakim, ??P1 is dilasuero
14:23:19 [Zakim]
+dilasuero; got it
14:23:27 [dvilasuero]
zakim, unmute me
14:23:27 [Zakim]
sorry, dvilasuero, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
14:23:41 [dvilasuero]
zakim, ??P1 is dvilasuero
14:23:41 [Zakim]
I already had ??P1 as dilasuero, dvilasuero
14:23:42 [emma]
zakim, dilasuero is really dvilasuero
14:23:42 [Zakim]
+dvilasuero; got it
14:23:51 [dvilasuero]
zakim, unmute me
14:23:51 [Zakim]
dvilasuero was not muted, dvilasuero
14:23:56 [edsu]
antoine: next we are to talk about problems and limitations
14:23:58 [jodi]
zakim, unmute dilasuero
14:23:58 [Zakim]
sorry, jodi, I do not know which phone connection belongs to dilasuero
14:23:59 [dvilasuero]
zakim, mute me
14:24:00 [Zakim]
dvilasuero should now be muted
14:24:08 [edsu]
ACTION: Gordon and Karen to consider relation between problems and limitation section and the library resource wiki page. [recorded in]
14:24:08 [jeff_]
zakim, unmute me
14:24:08 [Zakim]
jeff_ should no longer be muted
14:24:12 [edsu]
14:24:34 [edsu]
antoine: next, we'll talk about relevant technologies
14:24:42 [kefo]
zakim, unmute me
14:24:42 [Zakim]
kefo should no longer be muted
14:24:55 [edsu]
... also kevin had something to say about library linked data web services
14:25:09 [antoine]
14:25:32 [kefo]
14:25:45 [edsu]
kefo: joachim contacted me, and we were thinking of trimming our section and integrating it into the relevant technologies
14:25:55 [edsu]
... if someone wants to do that it would be fine by me
14:26:33 [edsu]
antoine: thanks kevin, i think that's a good idea
14:26:37 [edsu]
... jeff is that ok?
14:26:41 [edsu]
jeff_: yes, sounds great
14:27:18 [edsu]
antoine: i think is ready to be reviewed
14:27:40 [edsu]
... pretty close to claim victory on it, once kevin's stuff is added
14:27:57 [jeff_]
zakim, mute me
14:27:57 [Zakim]
jeff_ should now be muted
14:27:59 [edsu]
... jeff you could send an email to the group list asking for reviewers
14:28:41 [kefo]
zakim, mute me
14:28:41 [Zakim]
kefo should now be muted
14:29:13 [edsu]
antoine: there hasn't been any progress since the last teleconference on the vocabularies and datasets section
14:29:34 [dvilasuero]
zakim, unmute me
14:29:34 [Zakim]
dvilasuero should no longer be muted
14:29:38 [edsu]
... daniel do you have an update on the use case deliverable?
14:30:13 [edsu]
dvilasuero: i have about 1/2 of the report finished, and plan to update on the wiki and will send an email to the group
14:30:41 [edsu]
... i could use some help with some of the use cases, some of them could use some refinement, is it ok to email the owners?
14:30:44 [edsu]
antoine: yes
14:31:05 [edsu]
... you should be able to get the help from cluster owners
14:31:38 [edsu]
Topic: Recommendations
14:31:50 [edsu]
14:31:51 [dvilasuero]
zakim, mute me
14:31:51 [Zakim]
dvilasuero should now be muted
14:32:18 [edsu]
antoine: first of all, congratulations on doing what you have done so far on the public list!
14:32:23 [edsu]
14:33:05 [antoine]
rrsagent, please draft minutes
14:33:05 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate antoine
14:33:13 [kcoyle]
14:33:20 [edsu]
kcoyle: based on comments we re-organized it around actions
14:33:45 [edsu]
... we did this mainly on the talk page:
14:34:16 [edsu]
... we start out w/ an assess action, what datasets one might choose to convert first, or use first in a linked data type environment
14:35:00 [edsu]
... which is followed by planning, different paths one can take, having a discussion about data & rights
14:35:21 [edsu]
... the names of these things can change as much as you like
14:35:42 [edsu]
... then we have facilitate, to get across the idea of innovation, literacy, education
14:36:44 [edsu]
... then design, where we do modeling ; prepare, for best practices ; collaborate for getting involved in the community ; and finally curate
14:37:03 [edsu]
... helps get a better vision in terms of recommendations
14:37:28 [edsu]
... if there are actions that aren't in here, we'll need to add them in ... did we get everything that people care about?
14:37:35 [emma]
14:37:39 [emma]
ack me
14:38:40 [edsu]
emma: i'm wondering if this new organization of recommendations has the same purpose as the previous one ; is the purpose different?
14:39:05 [antoine]
14:39:33 [edsu]
... maybe you could indicate who typically cares about these actions, for people to understand easier
14:40:12 [edsu]
kcoyle: we're still trying to come up with a way to think about this to make sure we have everything in it, but the final version will indicate who the stakeholders are
14:40:37 [antoine]
14:40:41 [edsu]
... we need to think about who we are addressing at various points in the report
14:40:43 [emma]
zakim, mute me
14:40:43 [Zakim]
emma should now be muted
14:40:47 [antoine]
zakim, ack me
14:40:47 [Zakim]
I see no one on the speaker queue
14:42:07 [edsu]
antoine: i think this problem of targeting the specific audience would be more relevant for your section ... i think i like it, but it seems like a business plan, if there was a way to flag the specific actions as for particular people
14:42:29 [edsu]
kcoyle: what we had before, our high levels weren't very evocative
14:42:54 [edsu]
... maybe with this new division we can see if it helps us identify the stakeholders
14:43:06 [edsu]
... what stakeholders do we want to be addressing here?
14:43:10 [edsu]
... i think we want management
14:43:21 [emma]
14:43:29 [emma]
standard creators
14:43:38 [emma]
14:43:42 [edsu]
antoine: also catalogers
14:44:04 [emma]
14:44:07 [edsu]
kcoyle: we want to include everybody, but if we have to divide up the page by stakeholders, we need some number of stakeholders
14:44:41 [emma]
14:45:02 [emma]
+1 Antoine : for each recommendation, give an idea of who we're adressing
14:45:02 [edsu]
kcoyle: maybe for each action we could say who we are addressing
14:45:11 [edsu]
... even if it is only for us
14:45:21 [TomB]
+1 to address each recommendation to a specific target audience(s)
14:45:36 [edsu]
... there will be activities that need to be addressed by more than one stakeholder
14:46:01 [edsu]
... we haven't used this to redesign the whole page yet, we were waiting for this discussion
14:46:20 [edsu]
antoine: maybe we can see the discussion
14:46:22 [edsu]
14:46:28 [antoine]
zakim, ack edsu
14:46:28 [Zakim]
I see no one on the speaker queue
14:46:32 [emma]
+1 for redesigning
14:46:40 [antoine]
edsu: I like the focus on actions
14:46:57 [antoine]
... providing more on who to take the action is useful
14:47:16 [antoine]
... but as such it's good for the management level
14:47:28 [TomB]
Ed: likes it alot. Likes focus on action. Agree with Antoine, Emma - who we want to take the action. Alot of these seem business-y - good for mgt people, but speaking as a developer, if I could point to this "want to collaborate more" - would be useful.
14:47:43 [GordonD]
stakeholder category "cataloguer" is better expressed as "data manager" (for archives, museums, etc.)
14:47:47 [TomB]
...sometimes people are left wondering what they can do to help.
14:48:13 [jodi]
+1 for moral support
14:48:17 [TomB]
Karen: Part about "collaborating" - "moral support" for people who want to work in this area.
14:48:32 [edsu]
antoine: anyone have any more comments?
14:48:55 [emma]
14:49:24 [GordonD]
stakeholder categories might be: service managers (senior management); data managers; technical developers; standards developers; educators
14:50:05 [edsu]
kcoyle: we need to look through this to make sure there isn't anything that's like a bomb
14:50:16 [antoine]
zakim, ack emma
14:50:16 [Zakim]
unmuting emma
14:50:16 [emma]
ack me
14:50:18 [Zakim]
I see no one on the speaker queue
14:50:26 [jodi]
+1 to asking reviewers about unintended misreadings that are possible
14:50:49 [edsu]
emma: i think it's great to discuss the recommendations one by one on the list, i think we should go on with it
14:51:09 [emma]
zakim, mute me
14:51:09 [Zakim]
emma should now be muted
14:51:10 [edsu]
kcoyle: i've been trying to do them in logical chunks, and continue to try to do that
14:52:05 [edsu]
antoine: i had a question about vocabulary alignment, is there something there in the recommendations?
14:52:21 [edsu]
... some guidance on helping align library data with outside data sets
14:53:17 [GordonD]
Section 1.3.5
14:53:18 [edsu]
... we have aligning library data with externally produced data
14:53:36 [edsu]
... but that was the idea that we didn't want libraries creating yet another silo
14:55:04 [edsu]
kcoyle: in terms of alignment between libraries, i think we to describe that carefully, that it doesn't take the place of aligning with outside institutions
14:55:33 [edsu]
... in the discussion about URIs, people seemed to be agreeing but saying the opposite thing
14:55:54 [edsu]
... when we say the word "resources" they'll think about the metadata for the stuff they own
14:56:28 [jeff_]
14:56:29 [edsu]
... if you say libraries have to create uris for resoruces, we have this big gap, since we have shared authority files ... but we have all the bibliographic data, which we don't have identifiers for
14:56:47 [edsu]
... there seems to be a different situation between the authority files and the bibliographic data
14:57:09 [edsu]
antoine: the recommendation would still promote the coining uris at whatever level is appropriate
14:57:53 [jeff_]
zakim, unmute me
14:57:53 [Zakim]
jeff_ should no longer be muted
14:58:00 [antoine]
zakim, ack jeff_
14:58:00 [Zakim]
I see no one on the speaker queue
14:58:26 [jeff_]
zakim, mute me
14:58:26 [Zakim]
jeff_ should now be muted
14:58:29 [edsu]
jeff_: i assume that all of these things have internal identifiers, you can take those identifiers and slap http on the front of them, those are the things that deserve to be http identifiers
14:58:47 [jeff_]
14:59:22 [edsu]
kcoyle: we can recommend people to use the internal identifiers when creeating URIs
14:59:28 [Zakim]
14:59:52 [edsu]
kcoyle: my fear is that if we have two different things to say about these things
15:00:18 [jodi]
15:00:18 [Zakim]
15:00:21 [Zakim]
15:00:22 [kefo]
15:00:22 [jodi]
jodi has left #LLD
15:00:22 [dvilasuero]
15:00:23 [edsu]
antoine: meeting adjourned
15:00:25 [Zakim]
15:00:27 [Zakim]
15:00:29 [Zakim]
15:00:30 [jeff_]
jeff_ has left #lld
15:00:31 [Zakim]
15:00:32 [michaelp]
michaelp has left #lld
15:00:33 [antoine]
zakim, please list attendees
15:00:38 [emma]
I have to go, bye
15:00:40 [Zakim]
15:00:41 [Zakim]
15:00:51 [Zakim]
As of this point the attendees have been antoine, kcoyle, edsu, +, emma, AlexanderH, michaelp, uldis, jeff_, [IPcaller], Felix, Tom_Baker, GordonD, +1.763.463.aacc,
15:00:57 [Zakim]
... jodi, +44.194.346.aadd, kefo, dvilasuero
15:00:59 [Zakim]
15:01:05 [Zakim]
- +44.194.346.aadd
15:01:08 [antoine]
rrsagent, please draft minutes
15:01:08 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate antoine
15:01:10 [Zakim]
15:01:52 [antoine]
ACTION: Gordon and Karen to consider relation between problems and limitation section and the library resource wiki page. [recorded in]
15:01:55 [antoine]
15:01:58 [uldis]
uldis has left #lld
15:02:04 [antoine]
rrsagent, please draft minutes
15:02:04 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate antoine
15:04:02 [monica]
zakim, aadd is me
15:04:02 [Zakim]
sorry, monica, I do not recognize a party named 'aadd'
15:04:46 [Zakim]
15:04:55 [Zakim]
15:04:59 [antoine]
zakim, bye
15:04:59 [Zakim]
leaving. As of this point the attendees were antoine, kcoyle, edsu, +, emma, AlexanderH, michaelp, uldis, jeff_, [IPcaller], Felix, Tom_Baker, GordonD,
15:05:00 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #lld
15:05:05 [antoine]
rrsagent, bye
15:05:05 [RRSAgent]
I see 2 open action items saved in :
15:05:05 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Gordon and Karen to consider relation between problems and limitation section and the library resource wiki page. [recorded in] [1]
15:05:05 [RRSAgent]
recorded in
15:05:05 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Gordon and Karen to consider relation between problems and limitation section and the library resource wiki page. [recorded in] [2]
15:05:05 [RRSAgent]
recorded in