13:56:40 RRSAgent has joined #sparql 13:56:40 logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/05/03-sparql-irc 13:56:44 Zakim has joined #sparql 13:56:54 Zakim, this will be SPARQL 13:56:54 ok, AxelPolleres; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 4 minutes 13:57:17 agenda: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Agenda-2011-05-03 13:57:34 any regrets? 13:57:46 chair: Axel Polleres 13:58:20 SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has now started 13:58:28 +??P5 13:58:30 bglimm has joined #sparql 13:58:37 +AxelPolleres 13:58:51 +[IPcaller] 13:58:58 +??P7 13:59:01 Zakim, ??P5 is me 13:59:02 +NickH; got it 13:59:03 zakim, IPCaller is me 13:59:03 +AndyS; got it 13:59:11 zakim, ??P7 is me 13:59:11 +cbuilara; got it 13:59:18 + +44.186.528.aaaa 13:59:21 +kasei 13:59:22 The early bird gets the UK phone line 13:59:32 Zakim, +44.186.528.aaaa is me 13:59:32 +bglimm; got it 13:59:39 +pgearon 13:59:52 bglimm, did you see my proposed service description changes for the entailment properties? 14:00:16 Greg, no, I didn't see it 14:00:21 Did you email? 14:00:24 in email last night 14:00:37 Hm, I checked today, but mst have overlooked it 14:00:40 Will have a look now 14:01:10 MattPerry has joined #sparql 14:01:29 AxelPolleres, SteveH and I discussed Dave Beckett's comments and do not believe that there are any substantive changes that arise from them 14:01:48 Zakim, who is on the phone? 14:01:49 + +1.617.553.aabb 14:01:51 On the phone I see NickH, AxelPolleres, AndyS, cbuilara, bglimm, kasei, pgearon, +1.617.553.aabb 14:01:56 zakim, LeeF is aabb 14:01:59 sorry, LeeF, I do not recognize a party named 'LeeF' 14:02:02 zakim, aabb is LeeF 14:02:03 +LeeF; got it 14:02:09 + +1.603.897.aacc 14:02:23 zakim, aacc is me 14:02:23 +MattPerry; got it 14:02:53 +[Sophia] 14:03:15 alex_ has joined #sparql 14:03:32 Greg, I think what you propose in the mail is good 14:03:36 Zakim, mute me 14:03:36 bglimm should now be muted 14:03:50 bglimm, ok, good. I think that was the last remaining issue. 14:03:59 Zakim, who is talking? 14:04:10 kasei, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: LeeF (46%), AxelPolleres (25%), AndyS (3%) 14:04:26 + +3539149aadd 14:04:26 +sandro 14:04:39 Zakim, +3539149aadd is me 14:04:39 +alexpassant; got it 14:04:43 +??P29 14:04:43 Zakim, mute LeeF 14:04:45 LeeF should now be muted 14:04:45 scribe: Alex Passant 14:04:55 Zakim, ??P29 is me 14:04:55 +SteveH; got it 14:05:24 topic: admin 14:05:28 PROPOSED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2011-04-0 14:05:28 AxelPolleres: approve the minutes from last time 14:05:29 +??P32 14:05:35 PROPOSED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2011-04-26 14:05:43 Zakim, ??P32 is me 14:05:43 +SteveH; got it 14:05:46 -SteveH 14:06:08 RESOLVED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2011-04-26 14:06:29 ... next meeting - next week 14:06:48 topic: Last call publications of documents 14:06:53 http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/To_Last_Call 14:07:09 ... points to check for every documents, in the agenda 14:07:11 ... start with query 14:07:16 ... are editors ok for LC ? 14:07:40 AndyS: yes, need to check the aggregate example with SteveH 14:07:54 ... ready in terms of content 14:08:13 SteveH: pubchecker 14:08:20 best effort is good enough for me! 14:08:25 i'm happy to wrestle with the rest of it 14:08:28 ... except some wording, similar to other WD 14:08:31 ack me 14:08:31 I added 14:08:37 This document is a Last Call Working Draft. 14:08:37 Publication as a Last Call Working Draft indicates that the SPARQL Working Group believes it has 14:08:37 addressed all substantive issues and that the document is stable. The Working Group expects to advance this specification to Recommendation Status. 14:08:38 Comments on this document should be sent to public-rdf-dawg-comments@w3.org, a mailing list with 14:08:38 a public archive. Comments on this working draft are due on or before 14:08:38 29 July 2011. 14:08:48 To make the pub rule checker happy 14:09:03 LeeF: if pubrules is happy, I'm happy 14:09:10 SteveH: changes between the previous WD and the current oen 14:09:18 ... havent done anything about that now 14:09:38 pub rul cchecker want the keyword "Last Call Working Draft" and an end date for a review period 14:09:40 sandro: would do a diff rather than CVS 14:10:20 AxelPolleres: ask editors to do the changes section 14:10:25 ... we can leave it out if not here 14:10:46 ... happy to leave it out it no time 14:11:02 ... would like to drop the CVS log 14:11:57 +1 for dropping the logs 14:12:08 I created pub rule checking 14:12:10 doc 14:12:23 http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Pub-Process 14:12:24 ... birte done a summary of pubrules 14:12:31 Zakim, unmute me 14:12:31 bglimm should no longer be muted 14:12:46 chimezie has joined #sparql 14:13:21 ... any critical comments about Query ? 14:13:29 ... only one I'm worried about is Dave Beckett comment 14:13:49 + +1.216.368.aaee 14:14:03 SteveH: nothing that cause any publication problem 14:14:03 Zakim, +1.216.368.aaee is me 14:14:03 +chimezie; got it 14:14:09 Zakim, mute me 14:14:09 chimezie should now be muted 14:14:19 SteveH: response has been updated 14:14:44 Zakim, mute me 14:14:44 bglimm should now be muted 14:15:19 Zakim, unmute me 14:15:19 bglimm should no longer be muted 14:15:35 Zakim, mute me 14:15:35 bglimm should now be muted 14:15:47 q+ to discuss dates 14:16:21 LeeF: date to end the LC 14:16:30 ... need some time to let people look at it 14:16:33 ... min 6 weeks 14:16:40 ... then running into the summer 14:16:45 ... people slowing down 14:16:50 29 July 14:17:06 Zakim, unmute me 14:17:06 bglimm should no longer be muted 14:17:19 Zakim, mute me 14:17:19 bglimm should now be muted 14:17:32 ... third week of june for the minimum 14:17:45 ... gives a slim change to publish other documents as LC and get them at the same time 14:17:51 PROPOSED: publish SPARQL1.1 Query as Last call working draft with publication date May 12 and comments period until July 29 14:17:56 ... include that date as part of the resolution 14:18:25 Do our reviewers support publishing as is? 14:18:47 +1 to pgearon's comment 14:18:56 pgearon: oportunity to get feedback at semtech 14:19:28 Seconded 14:19:30 PROPOSED: publish SPARQL1.1 Query as Last call working draft with publication date May 12 and comments period until July 29 14:19:34 +1 to publishing query LC 14:19:37 +1 14:19:38 +1 (W3C) 14:19:38 +1 14:19:38 +1 14:19:40 +1 14:19:42 +1 14:19:45 +1 (ASF) 14:19:46 +1 (Oracle) 14:19:49 +1 (IE) 14:19:51 +1 (RPI) 14:20:03 +1 14:20:32 zakim, who is on the phone? 14:20:32 On the phone I see NickH, AxelPolleres, AndyS, cbuilara, bglimm (muted), kasei, pgearon, LeeF, MattPerry, [Sophia], alexpassant, sandro, SteveH.a, chimezie (muted) 14:20:44 NickH? 14:20:49 +1 (BBC) 14:20:50 i have 14:20:57 thanks! 14:21:28 RESOLVED: publish SPARQL1.1 Query as Last call working draft with publication date May 12 and comments period until July 29 14:21:36 ...with no objections or abstentions 14:21:50 AxelPolleres: next document: Update 14:22:48 it's a capitalisation issue 14:22:55 q? 14:22:58 "This", not "this" 14:22:58 generated HTML for Update is: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/update-1.1/Overview.html 14:22:59 ack 14:23:02 ack me 14:23:02 LeeF, you wanted to discuss dates 14:23:24 SteveH, where? 14:23:35 LeeF, in the title "Status of This Document" 14:23:41 our XSLT produces "this" 14:23:50 wow 14:23:51 I fixed it in the query-1.1 one 14:23:53 how dumb 14:23:54 :-) 14:24:22 well, someone had to draw a line somwhere :) 14:24:33 AxelPolleres: dont see intractions between USING and USING NAME 14:24:42 ... just a macro for graphs around unnamed patterns 14:24:52 s/NAME/NAMED 14:25:44 ... ok with the current wording ? 14:26:41 kasei: I'm happy with the changes 14:27:09 there's the "do we need USING DEFAULT -- PROPOSED: move that to "Postponed Issues"" 14:27:36 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2011Jan/0000.html 14:28:13 draft rtesponse here... http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/CommentResponse:HK-2 14:29:15 http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/CommentResponse:MS-1 14:30:43 AxelPolleres: commentfrom MS, critical for LC ? 14:30:52 alexpassant: no, no crotical 14:31:01 s/crotical/critical 14:31:20 http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/CommentResponse:ST-1 14:31:28 pgearon, let's get this wording straightened out, and then I'll fix the status stuff in the generated HTML 14:31:43 http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/CommentResponse:RN-1 14:31:50 LeeF: ok 14:32:30 AxelPolleres: need to be sure that the comments are not critical 14:32:56 ACTION: Axel to confirm with Paul and Alex that open comments don't contain LC critical parts that are still open 14:32:56 Created ACTION-453 - Confirm with Paul and Alex that open comments don't contain LC critical parts that are still open [on Axel Polleres - due 2011-05-10]. 14:33:40 q+ to ask about links of federated query and json 14:34:07 Zakim, unmute me 14:34:07 bglimm should no longer be muted 14:34:25 http://www.w3.org/TR/sparql11-federation/ 14:34:32 http://www.w3.org/TR/sparql11-federated-query/ 14:34:33 bglimm: some broken links to other documents 14:34:42 http://www.w3.org/TR/sparql11-results-json/ 14:35:37 ... 404 links 14:35:41 ... which one to chose for JSON 14:36:24 I suggest removing reference to JSON document and adding it back in at some point in the future 14:37:11 AxelPolleres: let the JSON doc aside for the moment 14:37:20 We can keep it in unlinked also, I don't really care. 14:37:32 AndyS: lets make it unlinked 14:38:32 Zakim, mute me 14:38:32 bglimm should now be muted 14:38:42 Zakim, who is talking? 14:38:44 AxelPolleres: update wording of the WITH, one more person to review 14:38:53 NickH, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: AxelPolleres (86%) 14:39:20 ACTION: Andy to approve rewording for WITH in update if any 14:39:20 Created ACTION-454 - Approve rewording for WITH in update if any [on Andy Seaborne - due 2011-05-10]. 14:39:48 ... sorting that with paul after the call 14:39:54 ... go ahead with proposal to LC 14:40:50 PROPOSED: publish SPARQL1.1 Update as Last call working draft with publication date May 12 and comments period until July 29 modulo completion of ACTION-454 and ACTION-453 14:41:13 I'm OK with that 14:41:57 +1 (Garlik) 14:42:02 +1 (RPI) 14:42:03 +1 (W3C) 14:42:04 +1 (ASF) 14:42:05 +1 (Cambridge Semanics) 14:42:06 +1 (IE) 14:42:06 +1 (The University of Oxford) 14:42:08 +1 (INRIA) 14:42:11 +1 14:42:11 +1 (Oracle) 14:42:11 +1 (UPM) 14:42:18 +1 (DERI) 14:42:48 Zakim, who is on the phone? 14:42:48 On the phone I see NickH, AxelPolleres, AndyS, cbuilara, bglimm (muted), kasei, pgearon, LeeF, MattPerry, [Sophia], alexpassant, sandro, SteveH.a, chimezie (muted) 14:42:51 +1 (BBC) 14:43:26 RESOLVED: publish SPARQL1.1 Update as Last call working draft with publication date May 12 and comments period until July 29 modulo completion of ACTION-454 and ACTION-453 14:43:43 ... with no objections and no abstentions 14:44:04 AxelPolleres: next, SD 14:44:11 ... ready ? 14:44:44 kasei: request to add use of entailement in the examples 14:44:53 ... so that SD can describe entailement 14:45:08 ... and samepl SD shown in Turtle, in addition to RDF/XML 14:45:18 Yes 14:46:08 alex_ has joined #sparql 14:46:20 ACTION: greg to add use of entailement in the examples and sample SD shown in Turtle 14:46:21 Created ACTION-455 - Add use of entailement in the examples and sample SD shown in Turtle [on Gregory Williams - due 2011-05-10]. 14:46:44 ACTION: Birte to approve completion of ATION-455 14:46:44 Created ACTION-456 - Approve completion of ATION-455 [on Birte Glimm - due 2011-05-10]. 14:47:38 kasei: no major issues in open comments. 2 comments from Rob Vesse, mostly editorial 14:47:54 Zakim: scribe is alex_ 14:48:32 AxelPolleres: all comments addressed from reviewers 14:48:36 +1 14:49:10 PROPOSED: publish SPARQL1.1 Service Description as Last call working draft with publication date May 12 and comments period until July 29 modulo completion of ACTION-456 14:49:36 +1 (The University of Oxford) 14:49:38 +1 (RPI) 14:49:39 +1 (Cambridge Semantics) 14:49:39 +1 (INRIA) 14:49:40 +1 (ASF) 14:49:40 +1 (UPM) 14:49:42 +1 (Oracle) 14:49:44 +1 (BBC) 14:49:45 +1 (DERI) 14:49:48 +1 (Revelytix) 14:49:50 +0 (W3C) 14:50:05 +1 (IE) 14:50:35 (Nothing big -- I'm just not a fan of this whole design.... Certainly not opposed, just not a fan.) 14:51:22 RESOLVED: publish SPARQL1.1 Update as Last call working draft with publication date May 12 and comments period until July 29 modulo completion of ACTION-454, no objections, one abstention 14:51:30 sandro, not a fan of the SD thing in general? or something specific about this specific design? 14:51:51 RESOLVED: publish SPARQL1.1 Service Description as Last call working draft with publication date May 12 and comments period until July 29 modulo completion of ACTION-456, no objections, one abstention 14:52:28 ACTION: axel to fix resolution in the notes to remove wrongly copied duplicate resolution concerning Update 14:52:28 Created ACTION-457 - Fix resolution in the notes to remove wrongly copied duplicate resolution concerning Update [on Axel Polleres - due 2011-05-10]. 14:52:54 Zakim, unmute me 14:52:54 bglimm should no longer be muted 14:53:18 topic: entailment 14:53:49 kasei, I think SD is being used to solve problems (like selecting entailment) that would be better done in other ways. 14:55:10 q? 14:55:19 ack bglimm 14:55:19 bglimm, you wanted to ask about links of federated query and json 14:55:54 PROPOSED: publish SPARQL1.1 Entailment Regimes as Last call working draft with publication date May 12 and comments period until July 29 14:56:14 +1 (ASF) 14:56:15 +1 (The University of Oxford) 14:56:15 +1 (Cambridge Semantics) 14:56:16 +1 (IE) 14:56:17 +1 (UPM) 14:56:18 +1 (INRIA) 14:56:18 +1 (Oracle) 14:56:18 +1 (RPI) 14:56:19 +1 (DERI) 14:56:25 +1 (Garlik) 14:56:27 +1 (Revelytix) 14:57:00 +1 (W3C) --- assuming RIF-in-RDF stuff in this is fixed, as per email between me and Axel 14:57:00 +1 (BBC) 14:57:45 So we have to update the entailment doc with a new RIF-in-RDF URL? 14:57:46 ACTION: sandro to fix RIF-in RDF note, publish it, and fix reference in the entailemt doc 14:57:46 Created ACTION-458 - Fix RIF-in RDF note, publish it, and fix reference in the entailemt doc [on Sandro Hawke - due 2011-05-10]. 14:58:33 This includes fixing a couple minor errors in the example. 14:58:56 PROPOSED: publish SPARQL1.1 Entailment Regimes as Last call working draft with publication date May 12 and comments period until July 29 modulo completion of ACTION-458 14:59:07 +1 (W3C) 14:59:07 +1 (RPI) 14:59:09 +1 (BBC) 14:59:10 +1 (Revelytix) 14:59:11 +1 (Cambridge Semantics) 14:59:12 +1 (ASF) 14:59:12 +1 (Oracle) 14:59:13 +1 (UPM) 14:59:14 +1 (Garlik) 14:59:15 +1 (INRIA) 14:59:17 +1 (IE) 14:59:20 +1 (The University of Oxford) 14:59:51 +1 (DERI) 14:59:57 RESOLVED: publish SPARQL1.1 Entailment Regimes as Last call working draft with publication date May 12 and comments period until July 29 modulo completion of ACTION-458 15:00:41 graph store protocol 15:00:54 Zakim, unmute me 15:00:54 chimezie should no longer be muted 15:01:37 Zakim, mute me 15:01:37 q+ 15:01:39 bglimm should now be muted 15:02:18 +1 15:02:33 can stay 15:02:39 can't stay 15:02:49 can someone take the scribe role? 15:03:14 http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/CommentResponse:KK-6 15:03:21 RESOLVED: Extend the meeting to discuss other two documents 15:04:55 -alexpassant 15:04:59 PROPOSED: publish SPARQL 1.1 Graph Store HTTP Protocol as Last call working draft with publication date May 12 and comments period until July 29 15:05:13 +1 (The University of Oxford) 15:05:16 +1 (BBC) 15:05:18 +1 (IE) 15:05:18 +1 (Oracle) 15:05:20 +1 (UPM) 15:05:21 +1 (RPI) 15:05:21 +1 (ASF) 15:05:22 +1 (Cambridge Semantics) 15:05:23 +1 (Garlik) 15:05:24 +1 (DERI) 15:05:25 +1 (INRIA) 15:05:30 +1 (W3C) 15:05:30 +1 (Revelytix) 15:05:57 zakim, who is on the phone? 15:05:57 On the phone I see NickH, AxelPolleres, AndyS, cbuilara, bglimm (muted), kasei, pgearon, LeeF, MattPerry, [Sophia], sandro, SteveH.a, chimezie 15:06:21 RESOLVED: publish SPARQL 1.1 Graph Store HTTP Protocol as Last call working draft with publication date May 12 and comments period until July 29, no objections, no abstentions 15:07:06 thanks to all of the editors for all of the hard work getting this far! 15:07:26 and congratulations to the whole group for getting this far 15:07:41 adjourned 15:07:44 -[Sophia] 15:07:47 -chimezie 15:07:48 later 15:07:50 -SteveH.a 15:07:53 well done everyone! 15:07:53 -bglimm 15:07:55 bye 15:07:56 -cbuilara 15:08:00 -kasei 15:08:02 -MattPerry 15:08:06 -NickH 15:09:39 ACTION: Axel to send request for publication as soon as "modulo" actions are completed (and poke responsibles to complete before 6th) 15:09:39 Created ACTION-459 - Send request for publication as soon as "modulo" actions are completed (and poke responsibles to complete before 6th) [on Axel Polleres - due 2011-05-10]. 15:12:15 -LeeF 15:12:16 -sandro 15:12:17 -AxelPolleres 15:12:35 AxelPolleres, LeeF --- great job you guys.... and everyone :-) 15:13:29 rrsagent, make records public 15:13:47 SteveH has joined #sparql 15:13:58 THanks to everyone! and let's take that spin to also finish the other docs in the coming weeks! ;-) 15:14:22 preferred turtle media type these days is text/turtle? 15:15:48 -AndyS 15:16:00 kasei, yes - registered by W3C in March. 15:16:19 thanks, AndyS 15:17:26 -pgearon 15:17:28 SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has ended 15:17:30 Attendees were AxelPolleres, NickH, AndyS, cbuilara, kasei, bglimm, pgearon, +1.617.553.aabb, LeeF, +1.603.897.aacc, MattPerry, [Sophia], sandro, alexpassant, SteveH, chimezie 15:17:48 Who will be at Semtech? 15:20:32 Not me, we have a paper on SPARQL OWL Direct Semantics Entailment at OWL ED (colocated with SemTec), but C&P is presenting it for us 15:21:09 I very much doubt I'll be there 15:21:10 I have travel approval for SemTech, but haven't actually booked tix yet. 15:21:24 So could me as 70% 15:25:36 I will be at Semtech! 15:26:14 let's put Semtech on the agenda for next week's meeting under Admin issues.. we probably have to discuss advertising in general 15:26:23 anybody have a minute to glance at SD updates? 15:26:45 need to run, sorry 15:27:06 I can soon, but am trying to sort through pubrules right now 15:29:20 LeeF has joined #sparql 15:29:49 AndyS has joined #sparql 15:35:53 sandro, sorry, didn't see your response re: SD earlier. not sure I understand about "selecting" entailment. 15:38:31 I want to be able to query the same data with and without RIF entailment. The way to do that with SPARQL 1.1 is a crazy hack involving SD. 15:44:09 i'm not sure how the SD would be involved in that. 15:44:43 alex has joined #sparql 15:48:33 what sort of "crazy hack" do you have in mind? 15:58:04 Sandro, I think we discussed this a couple of times and as there was no agreement as to how you can "select" entailments, it boiled down to SDs just describing what is on offer. As a user, you cannot change that. We would need more time for getting an agreement about how users can ask systems to do some kind of entailment, what happens if the system cannot do that for some reasone etc 15:58:45 I know, bglimm, and that's why I'm not objecting -- merely abstaining. 15:59:12 Ah, ok, that's the explanation for your abstain decision, fair point 16:01:32 i'm just curious what this "crazy hack" is. have we discussed this before? 16:01:47 definitely think selecting entailment is well outside the scope of the SD stuff. 16:04:29 the query language (or the SPARQL RDF protocol) is really the place for such a thing 16:18:35 alex_ has joined #sparql 16:28:12 LeeF has joined #sparql 17:07:15 chimezie has joined #sparql 17:28:39