15:51:23 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #htmlspeech
15:51:23 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/04/28-htmlspeech-irc
15:51:32 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #htmlspeech
15:51:39 <burn> trackbot, start telcon
15:51:41 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
15:51:43 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 
15:51:43 <Zakim> I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
15:51:44 <trackbot> Meeting: HTML Speech Incubator Group Teleconference
15:51:44 <trackbot> Date: 28 April 2011
15:51:45 <burn> zakim, this will be htmlspeech
15:51:45 <Zakim> ok, burn; I see INC_(HTMLSPEECH)12:00PM scheduled to start in 9 minutes
15:51:58 <Zakim> INC_(HTMLSPEECH)12:00PM has now started
15:52:00 <Zakim> +Michael_Bodell
15:52:01 <burn> Chair:  Dan Burnett
15:52:15 <burn> Agenda:  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-htmlspeech/2011Apr/0059.html
15:53:19 <burn> zakim, code?
15:53:19 <Zakim> the conference code is 48657 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), burn
15:53:35 <Zakim> +[Voxeo]
15:53:49 <burn> zakim, [Voxeo] is Dan_Burnett
15:53:49 <Zakim> +Dan_Burnett; got it
15:53:55 <burn> zakim, I am Dan_Burnett
15:53:55 <Zakim> ok, burn, I now associate you with Dan_Burnett
15:57:26 <Zakim> +??P31
15:57:26 <Zakim> -??P31
15:57:26 <Zakim> +??P31
15:57:46 <smaug_> Zakim, ??P31 is Olli_Pettay
15:57:46 <Zakim> +Olli_Pettay; got it
15:57:51 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
15:58:05 <burn> zakim, [Microsoft] is Robert_Brown
15:58:05 <Zakim> +Robert_Brown; got it
15:58:15 <smaug_> Zakim, nick smaug_ is Olli_Pettay
15:58:15 <Zakim> ok, smaug_, I now associate you with Olli_Pettay
15:58:29 <Robert> Robert has joined #htmlspeech
15:58:36 <burn> zakim, nick Robert is Robert_Brown
15:58:36 <Zakim> ok, burn, I now associate Robert with Robert_Brown
15:59:41 <Zakim> +Charles_Hemphill
15:59:41 <ddahl> ddahl has joined #htmlspeech
15:59:45 <Zakim> +Milan_Young
15:59:57 <Zakim> + +1.760.705.aaaa - is perhaps AZ
16:00:22 <Zakim> +Debbie_Dahl
16:00:29 <burn> zakim, aaaa is Bjorn_Bringert
16:00:29 <Zakim> sorry, burn, I do not recognize a party named 'aaaa'
16:00:40 <Milan> Milan has joined #htmlspeech
16:00:40 <burn> zakim, nick ddahl is Debbie_Dahl
16:00:40 <Zakim> ok, burn, I now associate ddahl with Debbie_Dahl
16:00:54 <burn> Scribe:  Robert Brown
16:01:01 <burn> ScribeNick:  Robert
16:01:13 <Charles_Hemphill> Charles_Hemphill has joined #htmlspeech
16:03:20 <burn> Agenda:  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-htmlspeech/2011Apr/0059.html
16:03:46 <Robert> topic: F2F logistics
16:04:02 <Robert> Bjorn: nothing new logistically
16:04:12 <Robert> Burn: will send revised schedule
16:04:25 <Robert> topic: updated report draft
16:04:58 <Raj> Raj has joined #htmlspeech
16:05:04 <burn> final report draft:  http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/htmlspeech/live/NOTE-htmlspeech-20110426.html
16:05:40 <Robert> burn: no new comments
16:05:49 <bringert> zakim, +1.760.705.aaaa is Bjorn_Bringert
16:05:54 <Robert> topic: new design decisions
16:06:17 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #htmlspeech
16:06:25 <bringert> zakim, +1.760.705.aaaa is Bjorn_Bringert
16:06:25 <Zakim> sorry, bringert, I do not recognize a party named '+1.760.705.aaaa'
16:06:52 <burn> zakim, who's on the phone?
16:06:53 <Zakim> sorry, burn, I don't know what conference this is
16:06:54 <Zakim> On IRC I see Raj, Charles_Hemphill, Milan, ddahl, Robert, RRSAgent, burn, bringert, smaug_, trackbot
16:07:40 <burn> zakim, this is htmlspeech
16:07:40 <Zakim> ok, burn; that matches INC_(HTMLSPEECH)12:00PM
16:07:59 <burn> zakim, who's on the phone?
16:07:59 <Zakim> On the phone I see Michae, Dan_Burnett, Olli_Pettay, Robert_Brown, Charles_Hemphill, Milan_Young, AZ, Debbie_Dahl, +1.818.237.aaaa
16:08:13 <burn> zakim, AZ is now Bjorn_Bringert
16:08:13 <Zakim> I don't understand 'AZ is now Bjorn_Bringert', burn
16:08:59 <burn> zakim, AZ is Bjorn_Bringert
16:08:59 <Zakim> +Bjorn_Bringert; got it
16:09:27 <Zakim> +Michael_Johnston
16:09:42 <Robert> Bjorn: previously only looked at intersection of proposals, is there anything that's in two proposals but not the third.  e.g. continuous recognition
16:10:09 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
16:10:52 <burn> zakim, [IPCaller] is Raj_Tumuluri
16:10:52 <Zakim> +Raj_Tumuluri; got it
16:10:55 <Robert> Milan: any requirement that we support this?
16:11:01 <burn> Regrets:  Dan Druta
16:11:16 <burn> zakim, aaaa is Patrick_Ehlen
16:11:16 <Zakim> +Patrick_Ehlen; got it
16:11:37 <burn> zakim, who's on the phone?
16:11:37 <Zakim> On the phone I see Michae, Dan_Burnett, Olli_Pettay, Robert_Brown, Charles_Hemphill, Milan_Young, Bjorn_Bringert, Debbie_Dahl, Patrick_Ehlen, Michael_Johnston, Raj_Tumuluri
16:11:51 <burn> zakim, Michae is Michael_Bodell
16:11:51 <Zakim> +Michael_Bodell; got it
16:12:28 <Michael_> Michael_ has joined #htmlspeech
16:12:35 <Robert> burn: will add continuous recognition to the list of topics to discuss
16:13:33 <burn> zakim, who's noisy?
16:13:33 <Zakim> I am sorry, burn; I don't have the necessary resources to track talkers right now
16:13:40 <Robert> Bjorn: only removed it from Google proposal because difficult to do , and may want to do it in a later version
16:14:51 <Robert> Michael: recapped two scenarios stated by Bjorn: 1) continuous speech; 2) open mic
16:15:56 <Robert> Bjorn: proposed that we all agree this is a requirement
16:16:32 <Robert> Milan: we were vague about what the interim events requirement meant, whether it included results
16:17:18 <bringert> burn: satish is trying to join, but zakim says the conference code isn't valid
16:17:31 <Robert> Burn: [after discussion] proposes Michael adds this as a new requirement (or requirements) to the report
16:17:32 <burn> zakim, code?
16:17:32 <Zakim> the conference code is 48657 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), burn
16:17:56 <Robert> Michael: sure, but will also check to see whether we just need to clarify an existing requirement
16:18:17 <satish> satish has joined #htmlspeech
16:18:41 <Robert> Bjorn: this is also a design topic
16:20:01 <ehlen> ehlen has joined #htmlspeech
16:20:12 <satish> burn: will do
16:20:48 <Robert> Bjorn: Robert is there anything else in the Microsoft proposal that should be considered as a design decision?
16:21:00 <Robert> Robert: nothing apparent, will review again in coming week
16:21:22 <Robert> Bjorn: should we start work on a joint proposal then?
16:22:03 <Robert> Burn: proposes that we now go to the list of issues to discuss and discuss them
16:22:50 <Robert> Bjorn: more items for discussion from Microsoft proposal
16:22:55 <burn> zakim, bringert is Bjorn_Bringert
16:22:55 <Zakim> sorry, burn, I do not recognize a party named 'bringert'
16:23:08 <burn> zakim, nick bringert is Bjorn_Bringert
16:23:08 <Zakim> ok, burn, I now associate bringert with Bjorn_Bringert
16:23:21 <burn> zakim, nick burn is Daniel_Burnett
16:23:21 <Zakim> sorry, burn, I do not see a party named 'Daniel_Burnett'
16:23:33 <burn> zakim, nick Charles_Hemphill is Charles_Hemphill
16:23:33 <Zakim> ok, burn, I now associate Charles_Hemphill with Charles_Hemphill
16:23:41 <Robert> ... MS proposal supports multiple grammars, but Google & Mozilla only supports one
16:23:47 <burn> zakim, nick ddahl is Debbie_Dahl
16:23:47 <Zakim> ok, burn, I now associate ddahl with Debbie_Dahl
16:24:04 <burn> zakim, nick ehlen is Patrick_Ehlen
16:24:04 <Zakim> ok, burn, I now associate ehlen with Patrick_Ehlen
16:24:05 <Robert> Olli: Mozilla proposal allows multiple parallel recognitions, each with its own grammar
16:24:32 <burn> zakim, nick Charles_Hemphill is Charles_Hemphill
16:24:32 <Zakim> ok, burn, I now associate Charles_Hemphill with Charles_Hemphill
16:25:07 <Robert> MichaelJohnston: can't reference an SLM from SRGS, so multiple grammars are required
16:25:27 <Robert> Bjorn: proposes topic: Should we support multiple simultaneous grammars?
16:25:32 <burn> zakim, nick Milan is Milan_Young
16:25:32 <Zakim> ok, burn, I now associate Milan with Milan_Young
16:25:40 <burn> zakim, nick Raj is Raj_Tumuluri
16:25:40 <Zakim> ok, burn, I now associate Raj with Raj_Tumuluri
16:25:47 <Robert> ... proposes topic: which timeout parameters should we have?
16:25:48 <burn> zakim, nick Robert is Robert_Brown
16:25:49 <Zakim> ok, burn, I now associate Robert with Robert_Brown
16:26:05 <burn> zakim, nick smaug_ is Olli_Pettay
16:26:07 <Zakim> ok, burn, I now associate smaug_ with Olli_Pettay
16:26:10 <smaug_> yeah, Mozilla proposal should have some timouts
16:26:13 <smaug_> timeouts
16:26:49 <Robert> Bjorn: emulating speech input is a requirement, but it's only present in the Microsoft proposal
16:27:48 <Robert> Michael: proposes topic: some way for the application to provide feedback information to the recognizer
16:29:07 <Robert> Bjorn: does anybody disagree that this is a requirement we agree on?
16:29:43 <Robert> Burn: proposes requirement: "it must be possible for the application author to provide feedback on the recognition result"
16:30:27 <Robert> Debbie: need to discuss the result format
16:31:42 <Robert> Michael: seems like general agreement on EMMA, with notion of other formats available
16:32:07 <Robert> Olli: EMMA as a DOM document? Or as a JSON object?
16:32:30 <Robert> MichaelJohnston: multimodal working group has been discussing JSON representations of EMMA
16:32:53 <Robert> ... there are some issues, such as losing element/attribute distinction
16:33:24 <Robert> ... straight translation to JSON is a little ugly
16:33:56 <Robert> Michael: existing proposals include simple representations as alternatives to EMMA
16:34:48 <Robert> MichaelJohnston: For more nuanced things, let's not reinvent solutions to the problems EMMA already solves
16:35:31 <Robert> Milan: would rather not have EMMA mean XML, since that implies the app needs a parser
16:35:58 <Robert> Debbie: sounds like we agree on EMMA, but need to discuss how its represented, simplified formats, etc
16:37:09 <Robert> Milan: a good idea to agree that an EMMA result available through a DOM object is a baseline agreement
16:37:52 <Robert> Bjorn: it's okay to provide the EMMA DOM, but we should also have the simple access mechanism that all three proposals have
16:38:08 <Robert> Burn: would rather have XML or JSON, but not the DOM
16:38:22 <Robert> Michael: if you have XML, you can feed it into the DOM
16:39:30 <Robert> Burn: it's a minor objection, if everybody else agrees on the DOM, I'm okay with that
16:39:40 <Robert> Bjorn: maybe just provide both
16:40:40 <Robert> MichaelJohnston: EMMA will also help with more sophisticated multimodal apps, for example using ink.  The DOM will be more convenient to work with.
16:41:17 <Robert> Burn: proposed agreement: "both DOM and XML text representations of EMMA must be provided"
16:41:25 <Robert> ... haven't necessarily agreed that that is all
16:43:17 <Robert> Bjorn: we already appear to agree, based on proposals: "recognition results must also be available in the javascript objects where the result is a list of recognition result items containing utterance, confidence and interpretation."
16:43:54 <Robert> Michael: may need to be tweaked to accommodate continuous recognition
16:44:40 <Robert> Burn: add "at least" to Bjorn's proposed requirement
16:45:24 <Robert> Burn: added a statement "note that this will need to be adjusted based on any decision regarding support for continuous recognition"
16:45:59 <Robert> Milan: would like to add a discussion topic around generic parameters to the recognition engine
16:47:19 <Robert> Burn: related to existing topic on the list, but will add
16:47:46 <Robert> Milan: also need to agree on standard parameters, such as speed-vs-accuracy
16:48:07 <Robert> Burn: will generalize the timeouts discussion to include other parameters
16:49:18 <Robert> MichaelJohnston: which parameters should be expressed in the javascript API, and what can go in the URI?  What sorts of conflicts could occur?
16:49:55 <Robert> Bjorn: URI parameters are engine specific
16:50:44 <Robert> MichaelJohnston: for example, if we agreed that the way standard parameters are communicated is via the URI, they could come from the URI, or from the Javascript
16:51:35 <Robert> Michael: need to discuss the API/protocol to the speech engine, and how standard parameters are conveyed
16:52:23 <Robert> Bjorn: we need to discuss the protocol, it's not in the list
16:53:11 <Robert> Burn: will add it to the list
16:54:11 <Robert> Milan: are the grammars referred to by HTTP URI?
16:54:56 <Robert> Burn: existing requirement says "uri" which was intended to represent URLs and URNs
16:55:16 <Robert> Milan: would like to mandate that HTTP was for sure supported.  there are lots of others that may work.
16:56:26 <Robert> Robert: should we have a standard set of built-in grammars/topics?
16:56:49 <Robert> Bjorn: in the Google proposal we had "builtin:" URIs
16:58:03 <Robert> Burn: "a standard set of common tasks/grammars should be supported.  details TBD"
16:58:24 <Robert> Burn: need a discussion topic about what these are
16:59:11 <Robert> Robert: what about inline grammars?
16:59:36 <Robert> Bjorn: data URIs would work for that, and perhaps we should agree about that
16:59:48 <Robert> Charles: would like to see inline grammars remain on the table
17:00:36 <Robert> Burn: will add a discussion about inline grammars
17:01:39 <Robert> Burn: we all agree on the functionality that inline grammars would give
17:02:02 <Robert> MichaelJohnston: one target user is "mom & pop developers" who would provide simple grammars
17:03:00 <Robert> Burn: discussion topic: "what is the mechanism for authors to directly include grammars within their HTML document?  Is this inline XML, data URI or something else?"
17:03:07 <Zakim> -Patrick_Ehlen
17:04:01 <Robert> Robert: use case: given that HTML5 supports local storage, the data from which a grammar is constructed may only be located on the local device
17:04:45 <Robert> Bjorn: proposes that we mandate data URIs, just for consistency with the rest of HTML
17:05:02 <Robert> Burn: no objections, so will record as an agreement
17:05:50 <Robert> Michael: need to discuss the ability to do re-recognition
17:06:00 <Robert> Burn: related to the topic of recognition from a file
17:06:13 <Robert> Bjorn: both are fine discussion topics
17:08:08 <Robert> Burn: [discussion about whether there's anything to discuss around endpointing], already implied in existing discussion topic
17:08:40 <Robert> Bjorn: context block?
17:09:24 <Robert> Burn: discussion topic: "do we need a recognition context block capability?" and if we end up deciding yes, we'll discuss the mechanism
17:09:40 <Robert> Milan: how do we specify a default recognizer?
17:09:47 <Robert> Bjorn: don't specify it at all
17:10:25 <Robert> ... since it's the default
17:11:13 <Robert> Michael: need some canonical string to specify user agent default, so we could switch back to it (could be empty string)
17:12:08 <Robert> ... Whereas how we specify a local one may be similar to the way to specify the remote engine
17:12:39 <Robert> Bjorn: for local engines do we need to specify the engine or the criteria?
17:12:49 <Robert> Burn: SSML does it this way
17:13:09 <Robert> Bjorn: is there a use case for specifying criteria?
17:14:01 <Robert> Burn: in Tropo API, language specification can specify a specific engine
17:16:03 <Robert> Burn: this is a scoping issue.  e.g. in SSML a voice is used in the scope of the enclosing element
17:16:30 <Robert> ... in HTML could say that the scope is the input field, or the entire form
17:17:04 <Robert> Bjorn: in all the proposals, scoping is to a javascript object
17:18:22 <Robert> Bjorn: are there any other criteria for local recognizers than speed-vs-accuracy?
17:19:22 <Robert> Charles: different microphones will have different profiles
17:20:01 <Robert> Raj: how do we discover characteristics of installed engines
17:20:54 <Robert> Michael: selection = discovery?
17:21:08 <Robert> Burn: in SSML, some people wanted discovery
17:21:24 <Robert> Bjorn: use cases?
17:21:47 <Robert> Michael: selection of existing acoustic and language models
17:22:29 <Robert> Robert: there's a blurry line between what a recognizer is, and what a parameter is
17:23:26 <Robert> Michael: topic: "how to specify default recognition"
17:23:38 <Robert> Michael: topic: "how to specify local recognizers"
17:24:01 <Robert> Michael: topic: "do we need to specify engines by capability?"
17:25:26 <Robert> Raj: or "how do we specify the parameters to the local recognizer?"
17:26:08 <Robert> Burn: want to back up to "what is a recognizer, and what parameters does it need?"
17:26:56 <Robert> ... call something a recognizer, and call other things related to that a recognizer
17:27:43 <Robert> Bjorn: the API probably doesn't need to specify a recognizer.  speech and parameters go somewhere and results come back
17:29:35 <Robert> Burn: what is the boundary between selecting a recognizer and selecting the parameters of a recognizer
17:30:04 <Robert> Milan: we need to discuss audio streaming
17:30:22 <Robert> Burn: topic: "do we support audio streaming and how?"
17:30:30 <Milan> Milan: Let's discuss audio streaming
17:30:52 <Zakim> -Bjorn_Bringert
17:30:53 <Zakim> -Olli_Pettay
17:30:53 <Zakim> -Debbie_Dahl
17:30:54 <Zakim> -Milan_Young
17:31:02 <Zakim> -Michael_Bodell
17:31:03 <Zakim> -Raj_Tumuluri
17:31:03 <Zakim> -Michael_Johnston
17:31:08 <Zakim> -Charles_Hemphill
17:31:13 <burn> zakim, who's on the phone?
17:31:13 <Zakim> On the phone I see Dan_Burnett, Robert_Brown
17:31:14 <Zakim> -Robert_Brown
17:31:21 <Zakim> -Dan_Burnett
17:31:22 <Zakim> INC_(HTMLSPEECH)12:00PM has ended
17:31:24 <Zakim> Attendees were Dan_Burnett, Olli_Pettay, Robert_Brown, Charles_Hemphill, Milan_Young, Debbie_Dahl, +1.818.237.aaaa, Bjorn_Bringert, Michael_Johnston, Raj_Tumuluri, Patrick_Ehlen,
17:31:26 <Zakim> ... Michael_Bodell
17:31:34 <burn> rrsagent, draft minutes
17:31:34 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/04/28-htmlspeech-minutes.html burn
17:31:39 <burn> rrsagent, make minutes public
17:31:39 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'make minutes public', burn.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
17:31:48 <burn> rrsagent, make log public
18:45:26 <ddahl> ddahl has left #htmlspeech
19:34:55 <Zakim> Zakim has left #htmlspeech