20:01:48 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #webfonts
20:01:48 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/04/27-webfonts-irc
20:01:50 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
20:01:50 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #webfonts
20:01:52 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 3668
20:01:52 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see IA_Fonts()4:00PM scheduled to start now
20:01:53 <trackbot> Meeting: WebFonts Working Group Teleconference
20:01:53 <trackbot> Date: 27 April 2011
20:03:08 <cslye> cslye has joined #webfonts
20:04:52 <jfkthame_afk> jfkthame_afk has joined #webfonts
20:05:27 <ChrisL> zakim, who is noisy?
20:05:27 <Zakim> sorry, ChrisL, I don't know what conference this is
20:05:34 <ChrisL> zakim, this is font
20:05:34 <Zakim> ok, ChrisL; that matches IA_Fonts()4:00PM
20:05:38 <ChrisL> zakim, who is noisy?
20:05:52 <Zakim> ChrisL, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: +1.781.970.aaaa (46%)
20:06:07 <ChrisL> zakim, mute aaaa
20:06:07 <Zakim> +1.781.970.aaaa should now be muted
20:06:15 <Zakim> + +44.845.397.aacc
20:06:40 <ChrisL> whoever was calling fro US or Canada area code 781 had a very noisy line and has been muted
20:06:50 <Vlad> aaaa is Vlad, I am in the office but it is noisy here
20:06:58 <ChrisL> zakim, unmute aaaa
20:06:58 <Zakim> +1.781.970.aaaa should no longer be muted
20:07:07 <ChrisL> zakim, aaaa is Vlad
20:07:08 <Zakim> +Vlad; got it
20:08:11 <ChrisL> zakim, who is here?
20:08:11 <Zakim> On the phone I see Vlad, [Microsoft], +1.408.536.aabb, ChrisL, +44.845.397.aacc
20:08:14 <Zakim> On IRC I see jfkthame, cslye, Zakim, RRSAgent, sergeym, Vlad, ChrisL, jdaggett, trackbot
20:08:19 <ChrisL> ScribeNick: ChrisL
20:08:26 <ChrisL> Topic: at-risk wording
20:08:33 <jfkthame> zakim, aacc is jfkthame
20:08:33 <Zakim> +jfkthame; got it
20:08:52 <cslye> zakim, cslye is aabb
20:08:52 <Zakim> sorry, cslye, I do not recognize a party named 'cslye'
20:09:02 <cslye> zakim, aabb is cslye
20:09:02 <Zakim> +cslye; got it
20:09:11 <ChrisL> Vlad: action was closed, original wording was added to spec
20:10:10 <ChrisL> Vlad: Chris and I had discussions with Maciej and Dave from Apple
20:10:36 <ChrisL> ... productive call,  primary objection was that SOR was specific to WOFF
20:10:53 <ChrisL> ... we al agreed better in CSS3 fonts, via css@font-face
20:11:03 <ChrisL> ... Maciej says this is easier to implement
20:11:31 <ChrisL> ... and that if this is *normative* in CSS3 Font then it resolves his objection
20:11:45 <ChrisL> ... so as long as CSS WG agrees we are good
20:12:13 <ChrisL> ... so we need an email from WebFonts WG to CSS WG asking for this
20:12:19 <ChrisL> zakim, who is here?
20:12:19 <Zakim> On the phone I see Vlad, [Microsoft], cslye, ChrisL, jfkthame
20:12:20 <Zakim> On IRC I see jfkthame, cslye, Zakim, RRSAgent, sergeym, Vlad, ChrisL, jdaggett, trackbot
20:13:03 <ChrisL> ChrisL: and stage 2 is to get editing help from Apple to work on from-Origin )CORER) spec
20:13:17 <ChrisL> jdaggett, can you get onto the phone?
20:13:45 <ChrisL> Vlad: so then we can reference CSS3 Fonts module and remove the requirement from WOFF
20:14:00 <ChrisL> s/)C/(C/
20:15:31 <ChrisL> action: jfkthame to add updated at-risk wording to spec
20:15:32 <trackbot> Created ACTION-87 - Add updated at-risk wording to spec [on Jonathan Kew - due 2011-05-04].
20:15:54 <cslye> Would someone mind posting a link to the latest draft spec?
20:15:57 <ChrisL> topic: Last Call comments
20:16:05 <ChrisL> Vlad: saw some recent comments
20:16:13 <ChrisL> http://dev.w3.org/webfonts/WOFF/DoC/issues-lc-2010.html
20:16:55 <ChrisL> Vlad: time to wait for a response
20:18:07 <ChrisL> cslye: will send in responses for issues 3 to 8 asap
20:19:55 <ChrisL> http://dev.w3.org/webfonts/WOFF/DoC/issues-lc-2010.html#issue-34
20:20:22 <ChrisL> action jfkthame to add wording on last call issue 34
20:20:22 <trackbot> Created ACTION-88 - Add wording on last call issue 34 [on Jonathan Kew - due 2011-05-04].
20:21:58 <ChrisL> ChrisL: should add example with license URI and no text inline to spec?
20:22:10 <ChrisL> Vlad: ok, add it
20:22:16 <ChrisL> ... but spec seems clear
20:22:46 <ChrisL> (noisy line issues)
20:24:52 <ChrisL> jfkthame and ChrisL willhave an editing telcon to resolve remaining spec edits
20:25:34 <Vlad> Link for action 87: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webfonts-wg/2011Mar/0002.html
20:26:48 <ChrisL> http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-fonts/#font-face-loading
20:27:15 <ChrisL> jfkthame: its in the editors draft section 4.8
20:27:32 <jfkthame> http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-fonts/Overview.html#same-origin-restriction
20:27:48 <ChrisL> CSS Fonts Module Level 3
20:27:48 <ChrisL> Editor's Draft 25 March 2011
20:28:34 <ChrisL> CSS Fonts Module Level 3
20:28:34 <ChrisL> Editor's Draft 7 April 2011
20:29:07 <ChrisL> ChrisL: ok that is wierd
20:29:21 <ChrisL> jfkthame:section 4.8 is clear so the editor agrees
20:29:36 <ChrisL> ... so we need the reaction of the CSS WG, editor agrees already
20:31:13 <ChrisL> Vlad: good, but that does not action: Chris to send email to CSS WG asking for SOR to be mandatory as it is in editors draft
20:31:22 <ChrisL> Topic: action items
20:31:36 <ChrisL> Vlad: what is the timescale for spec editing efforts
20:32:11 <ChrisL> jfkthame: swamped recently but if talk with Chris next week then we can get the other edits done quickly, next week or so
20:32:44 <ChrisL> Vlad: so in 2 weeks we will have all remaining answers, if they respond, and also the spec edits done
20:34:04 <ChrisL> ChrisL (explains transition call procedure)
20:35:16 <ChrisL> ChrisL: there is a period of required notice for a transition call
20:35:27 <ChrisL> Vlad: out on 11 May
20:35:34 <ChrisL> cslye; so am I
20:36:01 <ChrisL> Topic: actions
20:36:05 <ChrisL> action-80?
20:36:05 <trackbot> ACTION-80 -- Chris Lilley to respond on Use of attributes for human readable text -- due 2011-03-23 -- OPEN
20:36:05 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Fonts/WG/track/actions/80
20:36:17 <ChrisL> close action-80
20:36:17 <trackbot> ACTION-80 Respond on Use of attributes for human readable text closed
20:37:14 <ChrisL> action-57?
20:37:14 <trackbot> ACTION-57 -- Jonathan Kew to respons on issue-14 -- due 2011-01-26 -- OPEN
20:37:14 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Fonts/WG/track/actions/57
20:37:37 <ChrisL> commentor accepted
20:38:02 <ChrisL> close action-57
20:38:02 <trackbot> ACTION-57 Respons on issue-14 closed
20:38:09 <ChrisL> http://dev.w3.org/webfonts/WOFF/DoC/issues-lc-2010.html#issue-14
20:40:24 <ChrisL> action-79?
20:40:25 <trackbot> ACTION-79 -- Chris Lilley to respond on issue-25 -- due 2011-03-23 -- OPEN
20:40:25 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Fonts/WG/track/actions/79
20:40:30 <ChrisL> done just before call
20:40:35 <ChrisL> close action-79
20:40:35 <trackbot> ACTION-79 Respond on issue-25 closed
20:42:50 <ChrisL> ChrisL: neeed to update DoC on issues 25 and 26
20:42:57 <ChrisL> ... sent just before call
20:43:09 <ChrisL> action-85?
20:43:09 <trackbot> ACTION-85 -- Chris Lilley to find out from mac users how to set binary in the commandline cvs -- due 2011-04-13 -- OPEN
20:43:09 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Fonts/WG/track/actions/85
20:43:22 <ChrisL> close action-85
20:43:23 <trackbot> ACTION-85 Find out from mac users how to set binary in the commandline cvs closed
20:43:38 <ChrisL> action-86?
20:43:38 <trackbot> ACTION-86 -- Vladimir Levantovsky to email the WebFonts WG with the proposed response to ISO -- due 2011-04-20 -- OPEN
20:43:38 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Fonts/WG/track/actions/86
20:43:46 <ChrisL> Vlad: adressed after last call
20:43:52 <ChrisL> close action-86
20:43:52 <trackbot> ACTION-86 Email the WebFonts WG with the proposed response to ISO closed
20:44:34 <ChrisL> Topic: media types
20:44:51 <ChrisL> Vlad: two proposals in ISO, bth require parameters
20:47:17 <ChrisL> ChrisL: IETF does not like media types that require sniffing of the content to add parameters. They like a simple one to one mapping from filename extension
20:47:47 <ChrisL> Vlad: proposal is to distinguish simple, opentype and graphite layout and ttf or cff outlines
20:48:22 <ChrisL> ... for MP4 it has five different medie types depending on payload
20:48:45 <ChrisL> cslye: are implementors likely to comment on what they prefer?
20:49:10 <ChrisL> Vlad: not sure what is the driving force. 
20:49:48 <ChrisL> cslye: where is this written up, so i can get internal review?
20:49:56 <ChrisL> Vlad: (checks)
20:50:56 <ChrisL> jfkthame: not much value in media type distinctions.more interested in @font-format hints
20:51:25 <ChrisL> Vlad: so you prefer a single media type?
20:51:58 <Vlad> Link to ISO amendment: http://mpeg.chiariglione.org/working_documents/mpeg-04/part22/off-amd.zip
20:52:07 <ChrisL> jfkthame: not much value from either different media types or frm parameters. a single media type is fine as it does not help make the decision to request the resource or not
20:52:19 <ChrisL> ... that decision depends on the @font-face rule
20:53:02 <ChrisL> Vlad: that is true for CSS renderers. but there are other uses of fonts, including remote font linking
20:53:23 <ChrisL> ChrisL: like mpeg-4 scene descriptions?
20:53:26 <ChrisL> Vlad: yes
20:54:10 <ChrisL> cslye: woff does have a limitation in how its intended to be deployed. does that provide enough control?
20:55:15 <ChrisL> Vlad:fonts can be used in other rich media and they need media types
20:56:30 <ChrisL> ChrisL: @font-face was originally going to use media types but that did not work out so we ended up with magic strings, unfortunately
20:58:25 <ChrisL> Vlad: can the mpeg4 precedent be used?
20:58:41 <ChrisL> ChrisL: depends also on serfver side or client-side labelling
20:58:55 <ChrisL> cslye:do the implementors want this or care about it?
20:59:02 <ChrisL> Vlad: in some cases, yes
20:59:26 <ChrisL> cslye: if they don't have to download and inspect it ...
20:59:42 <ChrisL> Vlad:most such implementations are mobile and constrained resource
21:01:04 <ChrisL> ChrisL: in that case I suggest a single sfnt media type with params for glyph type and layout table usage
21:01:14 <ChrisL> Vlad: thats what Dave Singer proposed also
21:01:15 <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
21:01:22 <ChrisL> adjourned
21:01:31 <ChrisL> zakim, list attendees
21:01:31 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been +1.781.970.aaaa, [Microsoft], +1.408.536.aabb, ChrisL, +44.845.397.aacc, Vlad, jfkthame, cslye
21:01:39 <ChrisL> rrsagent, make minutes
21:01:39 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/04/27-webfonts-minutes.html ChrisL
21:01:44 <Zakim> -cslye
21:01:45 <Zakim> -ChrisL
21:01:49 <Zakim> -Vlad
21:01:52 <cslye> cslye has left #webfonts
21:01:55 <Zakim> -jfkthame
21:01:56 <Zakim> IA_Fonts()4:00PM has ended
21:01:58 <Zakim> Attendees were +1.781.970.aaaa, [Microsoft], +1.408.536.aabb, ChrisL, +44.845.397.aacc, Vlad, jfkthame, cslye
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