IRC log of rdf-wg on 2011-04-27

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:23:21 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #rdf-wg
14:23:21 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/04/27-rdf-wg-irc
14:23:23 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs world
14:23:23 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #rdf-wg
14:23:25 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be 73394
14:23:25 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFWG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 37 minutes
14:23:26 [trackbot]
Meeting: RDF Working Group Teleconference
14:23:26 [trackbot]
Date: 27 April 2011
14:23:32 [ivan]
Chair: Guus
14:39:26 [AndyS1]
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14:43:56 [danbri_]
danbri_ has joined #rdf-wg
14:44:41 [AZ]
AZ has joined #rdf-wg
14:49:57 [Scott]
Scott has joined #rdf-wg
14:50:23 [FabGandon]
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14:51:48 [OlivierCorby]
OlivierCorby has joined #rdf-wg
14:52:34 [AZ]
AZ has joined #rdf-wg
14:52:59 [dwood4]
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14:53:44 [Zakim]
SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has now started
14:53:51 [Zakim]
+ +1.760.705.aaaa - is perhaps Ronald
14:54:04 [AZ]
+1.760.705.aaaa, is me
14:54:27 [dwood4]
Mini regrets - I'm on another call and may be a few minutes late.
14:54:53 [Zakim]
+Scott
14:56:47 [pfps]
pfps has joined #rdf-wg
14:57:01 [Zakim]
+Jerome
14:57:19 [FabGandon]
Zakim, Jerome is me
14:57:19 [Zakim]
+FabGandon; got it
14:57:21 [AZ]
zkim, +1.760.705.aaaa is me
14:57:27 [AZ]
zakim, +1.760.705.aaaa is me
14:57:27 [Zakim]
sorry, AZ, I do not recognize a party named '+1.760.705.aaaa'
14:57:36 [Zakim]
+Peter_Patel-Schneider
14:57:49 [AZ]
zakim, 1.760.705.aaaa is me
14:57:49 [Zakim]
sorry, AZ, I do not recognize a party named '1.760.705.aaaa'
14:58:04 [AZ]
zakim, Ronald is me
14:58:04 [Zakim]
+AZ; got it
14:58:05 [danbri]
danbri has joined #rdf-wg
14:58:20 [Zakim]
+??P13
14:58:30 [Zakim]
+danbri
14:58:31 [mischat]
zakim, +P13 is me
14:58:31 [Zakim]
sorry, mischat, I do not recognize a party named '+P13'
14:58:35 [mbrunati]
mbrunati has joined #rdf-wg
14:58:44 [mischat]
zakim, ??P13 is me
14:58:44 [Zakim]
+mischat; got it
14:58:48 [mischat]
zakim, mute me
14:58:48 [Zakim]
mischat should now be muted
14:59:07 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
14:59:18 [webr3]
Zakim, i am IPcaller
14:59:18 [Zakim]
ok, webr3, I now associate you with [IPcaller]
14:59:43 [Zakim]
+OlivierCorby
14:59:51 [Guus]
richard: are you ready to scribe?
15:00:04 [gavinc]
gavinc has joined #rdf-wg
15:00:11 [ww]
ww has joined #rdf-wg
15:00:17 [ivan]
zakim, dial ivan-voip
15:00:17 [Zakim]
ok, ivan; the call is being made
15:00:18 [Zakim]
+Ivan
15:00:20 [AlexHall]
AlexHall has joined #rdf-wg
15:00:26 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller.a]
15:00:27 [tomayac]
tomayac has joined #rdf-wg
15:00:34 [Zakim]
+??P20
15:00:43 [mbrunati]
zakim, IPCaller.a is me
15:00:43 [Zakim]
+mbrunati; got it
15:00:46 [Zakim]
+gavinc
15:00:50 [cmatheus]
cmatheus has joined #rdf-wg
15:00:50 [NickH]
Zakim, ??P20 is BBC
15:00:50 [Zakim]
+BBC; got it
15:00:54 [zwu2]
zwu2 has joined #rdf-wg
15:01:07 [yvesr]
Zakim, BBC is NickH, yvesr
15:01:07 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'BBC is NickH, yvesr', yvesr
15:01:15 [Zakim]
+tomayac
15:01:18 [Guus]
zakim, who is here?
15:01:18 [Zakim]
On the phone I see AZ, Scott, FabGandon, Peter_Patel-Schneider, mischat (muted), danbri, [IPcaller], OlivierCorby, Ivan, mbrunati, BBC, gavinc, tomayac
15:01:19 [Zakim]
+AlexHall
15:01:23 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller.a]
15:01:25 [yvesr]
Zakim, BBC is made up of yvesr, NickH
15:01:25 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'BBC is made up of yvesr, NickH', yvesr
15:01:32 [AndyS]
zakim, IPcaller.a is me
15:01:34 [Zakim]
+AndyS; got it
15:01:39 [OlivierCorby]
pass code 73394 is rejected by phone number 04 26 46 79 03, had to call UK number
15:01:40 [Zakim]
+??P2
15:01:44 [Zakim]
+zwu2
15:01:45 [ww]
zakim, ??P2 is me
15:01:52 [zwu2]
zakim, mute me
15:01:54 [yvesr]
Zakim, BBC has yvesr, NickH
15:01:58 [Zakim]
+ww; got it
15:01:59 [ww]
zakim, mute me
15:02:02 [Zakim]
zwu2 should now be muted
15:02:04 [Zakim]
+yvesr, NickH; got it
15:02:10 [Zakim]
ww should now be muted
15:02:12 [danbri_]
danbri_ has joined #rdf-wg
15:02:24 [Zakim]
+David_Wood
15:02:33 [ivan]
zakim, mute me
15:02:36 [Zakim]
Ivan should now be muted
15:02:51 [Zakim]
+Sandro
15:03:31 [AZ]
AZ has joined #rdf-wg
15:03:37 [AndyS]
me was alt last week
15:03:45 [AndyS]
Sure -
15:03:52 [AndyS]
scribe: AndyS
15:04:21 [AndyS]
topic: admin
15:04:22 [Zakim]
-AZ
15:04:29 [SteveH_]
SteveH_ has joined #rdf-wg
15:04:42 [pfps]
Minutes F2F look fine now.
15:04:48 [Zakim]
+ +1.760.705.aabb - is perhaps AZ
15:04:54 [AndyS]
Minutes of F2F:
15:04:55 [AndyS]
http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/meeting/2011-04-13
15:04:58 [AndyS]
http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/meeting/2011-04-14
15:05:00 [AxelPolleres]
AxelPolleres has joined #rdf-wg
15:05:15 [ivan]
second
15:05:16 [AndyS]
Proposed to accept ...
15:05:24 [mischat]
+1 to accept
15:05:25 [Zakim]
+??P40
15:05:27 [yvesr]
+1
15:05:29 [mbrunati]
+1
15:05:30 [tomayac]
+1
15:05:31 [dwood4]
+1
15:05:36 [AndyS]
RESOLVED to accept the minutes of the F2F (both days)
15:05:47 [Zakim]
+AxelPolleres
15:05:58 [dwood4]
Zakim, who is talking?
15:05:59 [pfps]
Minutes last week look fine also.
15:06:06 [dwood4]
seconded
15:06:07 [AZ]
+1
15:06:08 [Zakim]
+??P46
15:06:09 [AndyS]
Minutes of last telecon: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/meeting/2011-04-20
15:06:10 [Zakim]
dwood4, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: AZ (28%), danbri (24%), gavinc (9%)
15:06:27 [gavinc]
zakim, mute me
15:06:27 [Zakim]
gavinc should now be muted
15:06:30 [AndyS]
RESOLVED to accept the minutes of TC 2011-04-20
15:06:35 [Zakim]
+??P9
15:06:40 [SteveH_]
Zakim, ??P9 is me
15:06:40 [Zakim]
+SteveH_; got it
15:06:47 [AZ]
zakim, mute me
15:06:47 [Zakim]
AZ should now be muted
15:06:49 [AndyS]
subtopic: Actions mgt
15:07:30 [sandro]
close action-27
15:07:30 [trackbot]
ACTION-27 Make sure the resolution to issue-12 gets into semantics document closed
15:07:37 [sandro]
action-28?
15:07:37 [trackbot]
ACTION-28 -- Steve Harris to make sure issue-12 resolution gets to SPARQL -- due 2011-04-20 -- CLOSED
15:07:37 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/28
15:07:47 [sandro]
action-30?
15:07:47 [trackbot]
ACTION-30 -- Guus Schreiber to put issue-34 on agenda for next time, proposed resolution "No" -- due 2011-04-20 -- PENDINGREVIEW
15:07:47 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/30
15:07:52 [sandro]
close action-30
15:07:52 [trackbot]
ACTION-30 Put issue-34 on agenda for next time, proposed resolution "No" closed
15:08:02 [sandro]
action-36?
15:08:02 [trackbot]
ACTION-36 -- Guus Schreiber to ask Pat to be an editor of RDF Semantics -- due 2011-04-21 -- PENDINGREVIEW
15:08:02 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/36
15:08:15 [sandro]
close action-36
15:08:15 [trackbot]
ACTION-36 Ask Pat to be an editor of RDF Semantics closed
15:08:36 [Zakim]
+LeeF
15:08:44 [sandro]
action-25?
15:08:44 [trackbot]
ACTION-25 -- Richard Cyganiak to write up the different options re ISSUE-15 -- due 2011-04-13 -- OPEN
15:08:44 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/25
15:08:47 [AndyS]
Open issues progress ...
15:08:58 [Zakim]
+Kingsley_Idehen
15:09:06 [MacTed]
Zakim, Kingsley_Idehen is OpenLink_Software
15:09:08 [Zakim]
+OpenLink_Software; got it
15:09:13 [MacTed]
Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me
15:09:13 [Zakim]
+MacTed; got it
15:09:15 [MacTed]
Zakim, mute me
15:09:15 [Zakim]
MacTed should now be muted
15:09:19 [sandro]
action-26?
15:09:19 [trackbot]
ACTION-26 -- Patrick Hayes to write an description of action-21 -- due 2011-04-13 -- OPEN
15:09:19 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/26
15:09:28 [sandro]
action-32?
15:09:28 [trackbot]
ACTION-32 -- Sandro Hawke to make public-rdf-json@w3.org -- due 2011-04-20 -- OPEN
15:09:28 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/32
15:09:33 [sandro]
close action-32
15:09:33 [trackbot]
ACTION-32 Make public-rdf-json@w3.org closed
15:09:55 [sandro]
action-33?
15:09:55 [trackbot]
ACTION-33 -- Dan Brickley to danbri, you wanted to note a bug in RDFS spec; it references Primer example 16 -- an example that doesn't even use rdf:value. -- due 2011-08-21 -- OPEN
15:09:55 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/33
15:10:27 [AndyS]
Danbri suggests setting up a test area
15:10:37 [danbri_]
ok queued for later re editorial work: cvs/svn or (tada!) mercurial
15:10:47 [sandro]
action-39?
15:10:47 [trackbot]
ACTION-39 -- Sandro Hawke to look at respec's handling of references -- due 2011-04-21 -- OPEN
15:10:47 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/39
15:11:26 [AndyS]
Mailing list is http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-linked-json/
15:12:14 [AndyS]
Sandro: need experts on respec
15:12:50 [AndyS]
Guus: volunteers to investigate choices -- respec, wiki text
15:13:02 [gavinc]
Sure why not
15:13:07 [AndyS]
dwood4: Opportunity !
15:13:11 [ww]
i'll help too
15:13:17 [pchampin]
I'd like to help as well
15:13:32 [AZ]
AZ has joined #rdf-wg
15:14:05 [AndyS]
sandro: unfamiliar with respec. OWL2 used wiki mechanism
15:14:20 [AndyS]
... can help with wiki, have not used respec
15:14:23 [pchampin]
It has been used by the media-annotation WG as well
15:14:28 [pchampin]
it = respect
15:14:36 [pchampin]
I can ask them about it as well
15:14:40 [sandro]
s/respect/respec/
15:14:41 [ivan]
zakim, unmute me
15:14:41 [Zakim]
Ivan should no longer be muted
15:15:17 [gavinc]
http://dev.w3.org/2009/dap/ReSpec.js/documentation.html ?
15:15:42 [mischat]
http://dev.w3.org/2009/dap/ReSpec.js/documentation.html
15:15:52 [mischat]
http://berjon.com/slides/20091104-respec/_respec.html <-- some slides
15:15:57 [AndyS]
ivan: respec: javascript based. Edit HTML doc, with scripts, format for W3C e.g. status, boilerplate,
15:16:10 [AndyS]
... javascript to modify benehaviour
15:16:25 [AndyS]
... generates pure HTML5 (pub form has no scripts)
15:16:49 [AndyS]
... references: one big javascript file for refs for all W3C docs.
15:16:59 [pfps]
a big problem with the Wiki solution was performing edits while off line - is this also a problem with respec?
15:17:08 [AndyS]
... possible to have WG level DB for refs/drafts
15:18:18 [AndyS]
... missing - cross link to anchors in drafts. javascript coding needed to automate.
15:18:34 [AndyS]
... +ve: HTML - edit in HTML
15:18:45 [AndyS]
... browser with javascript
15:19:25 [AndyS]
... offline - edit locally works - scripts local
15:19:38 [AndyS]
sandro: how can I experiment with it?
15:19:48 [AndyS]
ivan: it's own doc is an example
15:20:14 [AZ]
AZ has joined #rdf-wg
15:20:15 [AndyS]
ivan: it's not an editor - its format support.
15:20:25 [Guus]
q?
15:20:28 [AndyS]
Guus: thanks for explaination
15:20:29 [ww]
i was actually looking for something like that earlier today
15:20:44 [AndyS]
sandro: Conversion tools?
15:20:59 [AndyS]
ivan: no. Need section element of HTML5 and so get TOC
15:21:11 [gavinc]
uses the outline HTML5 method as well
15:21:17 [pfps]
I think that we should be OK wrt <section> as respec maps <hn> appropriately.
15:21:43 [AndyS]
One time pain to convert
15:21:44 [pchampin]
and converting html4 to html5 seems easier than html4 to wiki...
15:22:02 [AndyS]
action-40?
15:22:02 [trackbot]
ACTION-40 -- Mischa Tuffield to look into soton video conf facilities -- due 2011-04-27 -- OPEN
15:22:02 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/40
15:22:03 [mischat]
yup, southampton are in theory happy
15:22:07 [mischat]
it is up to us
15:22:17 [sandro]
close action-40
15:22:17 [trackbot]
ACTION-40 Look into soton video conf facilities closed
15:22:26 [AndyS]
topic: F2F2
15:23:59 [AndyS]
Guus: Not much change from last week in poll results
15:24:10 [ivan]
q+
15:24:23 [AndyS]
... there 4 F2F for the WG
15:24:41 [AndyS]
... split to be fair to all
15:25:02 [AndyS]
... west, east, EU, ?
15:25:12 [AndyS]
... Ivan can make west coast dates only
15:25:40 [AndyS]
ivan: sandro can make the East coast dates
15:26:06 [AndyS]
... linked to RDB2RDF , RDF web apps
15:26:16 [AndyS]
... RDB2RDF - TPAC ??
15:26:31 [AndyS]
... RDF web apps - many invited experts so cost issus
15:27:02 [AndyS]
Guus: if video link, east coast location is better
15:27:12 [sandro]
q+
15:27:12 [zwu2]
can we change the date for the East coast?
15:27:43 [mischat]
I like the idea of east coast + video link
15:27:57 [mischat]
southampton can host it
15:28:01 [AndyS]
... weak case for TPAC currently, go East Coast, aim to go West coast for future US F2F
15:28:23 [yvesr]
mischat, +1
15:28:25 [gavinc]
mmm, it's 1 person, not 2 or 3
15:28:29 [AZ]
AZ has joined #rdf-wg
15:28:37 [webr3]
mischat, +1 here too
15:29:12 [zwu2]
can we swap East coast date with West coast date?
15:29:19 [zwu2]
yes
15:29:21 [mischat]
zakim, who is making noise ?
15:29:32 [Zakim]
mischat, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: danbri (96%), Sandro (4%)
15:29:34 [sandro]
No, zwu2
15:29:41 [zwu2]
yes
15:29:52 [zwu2]
Oracle has a conference that week
15:30:09 [gavinc]
Boston prefered to Murray Hill as well
15:30:10 [AndyS]
Results are at http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/46168/RDFWGFTF2/results
15:30:59 [AndyS]
Ivan: budget issues - EU link would help
15:32:12 [NickH]
UK satellite would work well for me and yvesr
15:33:00 [pchampin]
it would be easier for me as well
15:33:35 [AndyS]
(much discussion about alternative date possibilities)
15:34:35 [sandro]
Proposed: F2F2 US/East Oct 11-12
15:34:53 [zwu2]
Oct 11-12 is fine for me
15:34:58 [pfps]
That week (Canadian Thanksgiving) is not ideal for me.
15:35:08 [AndyS]
9 days before ISWC
15:36:45 [gavinc]
Canadian Thanksgiving
15:37:03 [sandro]
new poll - oct 4-5 vs oct 12-13,
15:37:11 [AndyS]
Guus: new poll: two choices: in oct, East Coast
15:37:22 [AndyS]
video conf facilities?
15:37:35 [mischat]
i wonder if a video link up is going to be on the table
15:37:38 [mischat]
?
15:37:48 [gavinc]
Cambridge has lots of hotels.
15:39:03 [AndyS]
Do we know the numbers at each end roughly?
15:39:29 [AndyS]
pfps: Our best room holds 110 - too big for practical purposes?
15:39:46 [AndyS]
sandro: who would go where?
15:39:54 [AndyS]
Guus: will add to poll
15:39:59 [sandro]
guus, ask another question about who would be where, if we do a video link.
15:40:37 [sandro]
action: guus to set up poll about which site you'd use if we have a video link, pref murray hill vs cambridge/mit, and oct 4-5 vs oct-12-13.
15:40:38 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-41 - Set up poll about which site you'd use if we have a video link, pref murray hill vs cambridge/mit, and oct 4-5 vs oct-12-13. [on Guus Schreiber - due 2011-05-04].
15:41:10 [AndyS]
Topic: list discussion
15:41:33 [AndyS]
Guus: pls us WG list for WG work mainly - general discussions to general lists
15:42:23 [AndyS]
topic: Reconcile various forms of string literals
15:42:27 [AndyS]
Issue-12?
15:42:27 [trackbot]
ISSUE-12 -- Reconcile various forms of string literals (time permitting) -- open
15:42:27 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/12
15:43:09 [AndyS]
ivan: I raised the issue to make sure it got done.
15:43:10 [AZ]
AZ has joined #rdf-wg
15:43:22 [AndyS]
... pfps suggests this is a non-issue
15:44:13 [AndyS]
pfps: It it not a non-issue - semantics says xsd:string are same as plain literals no lang tag
15:44:28 [pfps]
s/it it/it is/
15:44:32 [AZ]
+q
15:44:33 [Zakim]
-OlivierCorby
15:44:48 [AZ]
zakim, unmute
15:44:48 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'unmute', AZ
15:44:51 [AndyS]
ivan: F2F1 was that simple literals preferred
15:44:53 [Danbri]
Danbri has joined #rdf-wg
15:44:56 [AndyS]
... some push back
15:45:05 [mischat]
zakime, unmute AZ
15:45:06 [AZ]
zakim, unmute me
15:45:06 [Zakim]
AZ should no longer be muted
15:45:52 [AndyS]
... status is that F2F resolution has some -1's
15:45:57 [AndyS]
Guus: where are we?
15:46:48 [AndyS]
AZ: my prob with resolution is "archaic" means "do not use" but I want to use in rdfs:range.
15:47:04 [AZ]
"Recommend that publishers use plain literals instead of xs:string typed literals and tell systems to silently convert xs:string literals to plain literals without language tag."
15:47:10 [AndyS]
... I think that archaic suggest don't do that.
15:47:18 [AndyS]
... (suggests text)
15:47:32 [LeeF]
q+
15:47:35 [sandro]
Yes, agreed -- the intention was this -- it wasn't about disallowing xs:string as a range constraint
15:47:37 [sandro]
q-
15:47:41 [ivan]
ack ivan
15:47:53 [ivan]
ack AZ
15:48:23 [AndyS]
LeeF: Want range thing and SPARQL datatype is already xsd:string
15:48:28 [ivan]
q+
15:48:32 [ivan]
ack LeeF
15:48:37 [AndyS]
... goal of align is desirable
15:48:46 [sandro]
lee: I want the sparql DATATYPE function to return xs:string on these things, but it might already be.
15:49:10 [Guus]
ack ivan
15:49:37 [pfps]
rdf:PlainLiteral is bigger than xsd:string
15:49:42 [AndyS]
ivan: rdf:PlainLiteral usable?
15:49:53 [AndyS]
sandro: No - includes language tage
15:50:06 [AZ]
"Recommend that publishers use plain literals instead of xs:string typed literals and tell systems to silently convert xs:string literals to plain literals without language tag."
15:50:13 [LeeF]
http://www.w3.org/TR/rdf-sparql-query/#func-datatype -- it is the case that datatype("foo") = xsd:string
15:50:27 [yvesr]
AZ, +1
15:50:34 [LeeF]
q+
15:50:47 [ivan]
ack LeeF
15:50:53 [AndyS]
Guus: please propose on the list
15:51:08 [AndyS]
LeeF: need to check experts in CSI
15:51:19 [pchampin]
q+ to ask ask a clarification
15:51:25 [AndyS]
Guus: One week on the list, bring to WG next week.
15:51:51 [AndyS]
action: AZ Propose text for resolution on archaic xsd:strings
15:51:51 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-42 - Propose text for resolution on archaic xsd:strings [on Antoine Zimmermann - due 2011-05-04].
15:52:12 [pchampin]
q-
15:52:13 [AZ]
zakim, mute me
15:52:13 [Zakim]
AZ should now be muted
15:52:19 [webr3]
issue-34?
15:52:19 [trackbot]
ISSUE-34 -- Do we need to add syntactic sugar to turtle, beyond what's in the Submission (such as inverse paths and =)? -- open
15:52:19 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/34
15:52:30 [AndyS]
topic: syntactic sugar to turtle
15:52:52 [sandro]
q?
15:53:25 [Danbri]
Q+ to ask if sparql 1.1 paths are useful assertionally?
15:53:36 [AndyS]
Guus: Please phrase as proposal then bring to TC next week
15:53:47 [Guus]
ack danbri
15:53:47 [Zakim]
Danbri, you wanted to ask if sparql 1.1 paths are useful assertionally?
15:53:51 [AndyS]
danbri: SPARQL paths?
15:54:04 [cygri]
cygri has joined #rdf-wg
15:54:05 [AndyS]
q+
15:54:07 [yvesr]
Danbri, I mentioned that at the f2f, consensus was to not do it i think
15:54:12 [SteveH]
propose: "to not add any features to Turtle over what is in the submission"
15:54:26 [yvesr]
Danbri, although i see the point and why it could be useful
15:54:34 [AndyS]
steveH: paths only in SPARQL where clause
15:54:45 [Guus]
ack AndyS
15:54:58 [yvesr]
yep
15:55:05 [pchampin]
and what about '*' paths :-/
15:55:06 [Zakim]
-AxelPolleres
15:55:08 [ivan]
q+
15:55:17 [ivan]
q-
15:55:17 [mischat]
AndyS: if you wanted to add the paths to turtle, there would be issues re: bnodes
15:55:18 [AndyS]
AndyS: need to decide what intermediate nodes are
15:55:22 [AndyS]
q-
15:55:24 [cygri_]
cygri_ has joined #rdf-wg
15:55:32 [AndyS]
Guus: any more input?
15:55:37 [ivan]
second it
15:55:55 [mischat]
any objections to the proposal
15:56:00 [mischat]
?
15:56:10 [Zakim]
-BBC
15:56:21 [AndyS]
RESOLVED "to not add any features to Turtle over what is in the submission"
15:56:37 [Danbri]
I would be interested to hear more re paths, but maybe off wg list for now
15:56:54 [sandro]
RESOLVED: Close issue-12 without adding any features (syntactic sugar) to Turtle over what is in the submission
15:57:15 [AndyS]
topic: Turtle and SPARQL-WG LC timing
15:57:17 [Zakim]
+mhausenblas
15:57:27 [cygri_]
zakim, mhausenblas is me
15:57:27 [Zakim]
+cygri_; got it
15:57:46 [AndyS]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2011Apr/0470.html
15:57:59 [Zakim]
-[IPcaller]
15:58:14 [AndyS]
LeeF: SPARQL-WG has decided to make 18. change inc fix tests
15:58:46 [AndyS]
... so now is the Turtle features going to change (see email for diffs)
15:59:17 [AndyS]
See: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Diff_SPARQL_Turtle
15:59:45 [AndyS]
sandro: could put "at risk" so end of LC is latest to resolve
16:00:08 [ivan]
q+
16:00:10 [AndyS]
LeeF: OK but not favorite - many items - confusing
16:01:07 [Zakim]
+??P49
16:01:16 [yvesr]
Zakim, ??P49 is BBC
16:01:21 [Zakim]
+BBC; got it
16:01:27 [NickH]
Zakim, BBC has yvesr, NickH
16:01:34 [Zakim]
+yvesr, NickH; got it
16:01:34 [AZ]
AZ has joined #rdf-wg
16:01:43 [sandro]
AndyS: Of the difference on the wiki page I did, probably the biggest is freestanding bnode property lists
16:01:45 [mischat]
Guus: what are the main issues this wg will have in terms of syncing with turtle
16:01:56 [ivan]
q?
16:02:11 [mischat]
http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Diff_SPARQL_Turtle#bNode_property_lists
16:02:11 [sandro]
sandro: how to move forward on this, Andy?
16:02:38 [sandro]
AndyS: Two options -- publish turtle exactly matching sparql, or adopt principle of aligning them
16:03:12 [gavinc]
Prefer the 2nd to the first?
16:03:16 [sandro]
STRAWPOLL: We agree in principle to align TURTLE and SPARQL
16:03:17 [zwu2]
+1 to consistency
16:03:23 [AndyS]
+1
16:03:26 [sandro]
guus: no one speaking against it
16:03:26 [dwood4]
+1
16:03:32 [sandro]
+1
16:03:32 [yvesr]
+1
16:03:33 [LeeF]
+1
16:03:34 [NickH]
+1
16:03:37 [ivan]
+1
16:03:38 [pchampin]
+1
16:03:39 [Danbri]
If we do leave wiggle room between the specs, we can also include notes on the subtle differences in our spec
16:03:39 [gavinc]
+1
16:03:41 [mbrunati]
+1
16:03:49 [Danbri]
+1
16:03:50 [cygri]
+1 to consistency, but still requires case-by-case consideration
16:03:50 [AZ]
+1
16:04:14 [FabGandon]
+1
16:04:18 [SteveH]
+1
16:04:20 [sandro]
AndyS: I'm not sure of the state of current implementations on these corner cases.
16:04:29 [LeeF]
I'd like that the default state be "align Turtle to SPARQL", and that there have to be a strong technical compelling case in order to go in the other direction
16:04:56 [sandro]
AndyS: I'd be happy to remove free-standing lists from SPARQL
16:05:36 [sandro]
guus: So, there might be some detailed features at risk, but they are pretty well aligned so far
16:05:52 [sandro]
guus: So, do you want us to put these on a priority list?
16:06:02 [sandro]
AndyS: I'd rather NOT go through them feature-by-feature.
16:06:26 [AndyS]
+1 to LeeF "compelling" case needed
16:06:48 [dwood4]
+1 to needing a compelling case to diviate
16:06:58 [Zakim]
-Peter_Patel-Schneider
16:06:59 [sandro]
sandro: Is the proposal that SPARQL last call (next week) is last call for any changes to TURTLE???
16:07:14 [Danbri]
Zakim, who is on the call
16:07:14 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'who is on the call', Danbri
16:07:20 [Zakim]
+Peter_Patel-Schneider
16:07:40 [sandro]
AndyS: That would be nice, but that's not it.
16:07:55 [sandro]
guus: The spirit is to align them
16:08:34 [sandro]
ivan: I understand the freestanding list, the bnode brackets, I have no problem deciding now that TURTLE should adopt those and move on. I fail to grasp the backslash-u issue.
16:08:39 [AZ]
AZ has joined #rdf-wg
16:08:47 [mischat]
http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Diff_SPARQL_Turtle#Escape_Processing
16:09:43 [sandro]
AndyS: SPARQL and TURTLE have an escape mechanism that works slightly differently, in addition Eric is proposing adding them to prefix names.
16:09:45 [cygri]
q+
16:09:52 [ivan]
q-
16:10:36 [sandro]
guus: Is this the only item where you (Andy) and Eric disagree? If so, it seems like a good thing to mark At Risk.
16:11:16 [sandro]
AndyS: Are you talking about the difference in escape processing, or about eric's SPARQL feature request.
16:11:25 [Guus]
q?
16:11:28 [sandro]
q+
16:11:46 [Zakim]
-FabGandon
16:11:50 [sandro]
ivan: is it just these three things?
16:11:57 [ivan]
ack cygri
16:12:04 [sandro]
AndyS: I think so, no one else has brought anything else up
16:12:57 [sandro]
cygri: I have concerns about this unicode escape issue -- this needs more discussion. I think the current sparql approach isnt optimal for turtle. I don't have a strong opinion about whether this means SPARQL should change, or the two should deviate on this.
16:13:27 [sandro]
... I also agree all the other issues, TURTLE should follow SPARQL, except maybe on final-dot at end of document.
16:13:39 [Danbri]
Ivan/sandro, can you investigate shared filespace issue for the wg? Mercurial etc...? I'd like to close my rdfs issue... by opening an editors draft
16:13:47 [sandro]
cygri: So unicode escape is the one place there might still be a need for SPARQL to change.
16:14:06 [sandro]
Danbri, we can get mercurial space, yes.
16:14:22 [Danbri]
Please :)
16:14:26 [sandro]
guus: So, Lee, it sounds like you should mark the unicode stuff at risk.
16:14:42 [sandro]
q?
16:14:44 [sandro]
q-
16:14:48 [AndyS]
yvesr - currently yes
16:14:56 [AndyS]
yvesr - currently correct
16:15:00 [ivan]
q+
16:15:06 [SteveH]
there is a wiki page
16:15:09 [AZ]
AZ has joined #rdf-wg
16:15:12 [cygri]
http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Skolemization
16:15:32 [AndyS]
topic: skolemization meta-discussion
16:16:01 [AndyS]
Guus: next two weeks - be clear about options
16:16:07 [mischat]
http://www.w3.org/mid/0B4851C8-3017-4295-9F95-38347A4BF0D1@cyganiak.de
16:16:09 [AndyS]
... then we can get to resolution
16:16:15 [ivan]
zakim, drop me
16:16:15 [Zakim]
Ivan is being disconnected
16:16:15 [AndyS]
adjourned
16:16:16 [Zakim]
-Ivan
16:16:16 [Zakim]
-Peter_Patel-Schneider
16:16:17 [Zakim]
-AlexHall
16:16:17 [Zakim]
-cygri_
16:16:18 [Zakim]
-David_Wood
16:16:18 [Zakim]
-SteveH_
16:16:18 [zwu2]
bye
16:16:19 [Zakim]
-danbri
16:16:21 [Zakim]
-gavinc
16:16:21 [AlexHall]
AlexHall has left #rdf-wg
16:16:24 [Zakim]
-MacTed
16:16:24 [mbrunati]
bye
16:16:25 [Zakim]
-Sandro
16:16:27 [yvesr]
bye
16:16:28 [Zakim]
-ww
16:16:29 [Zakim]
-BBC
16:16:32 [Zakim]
-mischat
16:16:32 [LeeF]
thanks, Guus
16:16:34 [Zakim]
-zwu2
16:16:35 [Zakim]
-pchampin
16:16:37 [Zakim]
-Scott
16:16:39 [Zakim]
-LeeF
16:16:42 [Zakim]
-AndyS
16:16:43 [Zakim]
-mbrunati
16:16:45 [Zakim]
-AZ
16:18:22 [Zakim]
-??P46
16:20:01 [AndyS]
AndyS has joined #rdf-wg
16:24:07 [pchampin]
pchampin has left #rdf-wg
16:24:16 [Zakim]
-tomayac
16:24:17 [Zakim]
SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has ended
16:24:19 [Zakim]
Attendees were +1.760.705.aaaa, Scott, FabGandon, Peter_Patel-Schneider, AZ, danbri, mischat, [IPcaller], OlivierCorby, Ivan, mbrunati, gavinc, tomayac, AlexHall, AndyS, zwu2, ww,
16:24:22 [Zakim]
... yvesr, NickH, David_Wood, Sandro, +1.760.705.aabb, pchampin, AxelPolleres, SteveH_, LeeF, MacTed, cygri_
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