15:27:54 RRSAgent has joined #text 15:27:54 logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/04/25-text-irc 15:28:38 Stevef has joined #text 15:29:40 agenda reference http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2011Apr/0262.html 15:30:07 agenda? 15:30:10 scribe: gregory_rosmaita 15:30:10 agenda+ Action item review 15:30:10 http://www.w3.org/2011/04/18-text-minutes.html#ActionSummary ; 15:30:10 (please associate new actions with "text" product in tracker 15:30:10 http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/open ) 15:30:11 agenda+ Additional accessibility feature decisions/rejections: 15:30:11 LynnH has joined #text 15:30:14 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2011Apr/0453.html ; 15:30:15 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2011Apr/0452.html ; 15:30:18 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2011Apr/0451.html 15:30:19 agenda+ Updated discussion on edited requirements: questions, 15:30:22 timeline to comment 15:30:23 http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Verbose_desc_reqs#Requirements 15:30:25 agenda+ Draft clarification on title/alt (Rich/Judy drafting, will 15:30:27 send); discussion of approach (outline; detail; request): questions, 15:30:30 timeline to comment, support? 15:30:31 agenda+ Update on formal objection on normative accessibility 15:30:33 guidance on alt 15:30:35 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2011Apr/0175.html 15:30:37 ; options, questions, timeline to comment, text sub-group?, next steps 15:30:39 agenda+ Continue planning clarification mails on rejected 15:30:41 accessibility features: outlining key response points; drafting 15:30:43 details; who; when; escalation path 15:30:45 agenda+ Other business? Additional thoughts on organizing our work? 15:30:47 agenda+ Recap of action items and timelines 15:30:49 agenda+ Confirm scribe for 29 April: Rich Schwerdtfeger?; identify 15:30:51 scribe 2 weeks out; adjourn. 15:31:25 zakim, code? 15:31:25 sorry, judy, I don't know what conference this is 15:31:29 gfreed has joined #text 15:31:36 zakim, this is WAI_PFWG(text) 15:31:36 sorry, judy, I do not see a conference named 'WAI_PFWG(text)' in progress or scheduled at this time 15:31:48 regrets: laura_carlson 15:31:52 scribe: gregory_rosmaita 15:31:55 richardschwerdtfe has joined #text 15:31:55 scribenick: oedipus 15:32:11 zakim, this is WAI_PF(Text) 15:32:11 ok, judy; that matches WAI_PF(Text)11:30AM 15:32:16 zakim, code? 15:32:16 the conference code is 2119 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), judy 15:32:21 +Rich 15:32:23 chair: judy_brewer 15:32:27 meeting: HTML-A11Y Text Alternatives Sub-Group Teleconference 15:32:33 +Gregory_Rosmaita 15:32:42 zakim, who is on the phone? 15:32:42 On the phone I see John_Foliot, ??P3, ??P4, [IPcaller], +44.208.517.aaaa, WGBH?, Rich, Gregory_Rosmaita 15:32:52 Lynn has joined #text 15:33:04 +Judy 15:33:09 present+ Steve_Faulkner,John_Foliot 15:33:24 zakim, WGBH? has Geoff_Freed 15:33:24 +Geoff_Freed; got it 15:33:30 zakim, who is on the phone? 15:33:30 On the phone I see John_Foliot, ??P3, ??P4, [IPcaller], +44.208.517.aaaa, WGBH?, Rich, Gregory_Rosmaita, Judy 15:33:33 WGBH has Geoff_Freed 15:34:23 present+ Lynn_Haldworth 15:34:31 TOPIC: Action Item Review 15:34:38 http://www.w3.org/2011/04/18-text-minutes.html#ActionSummary 15:34:44 http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/open 15:34:53 JF has joined #text 15:35:01 zakim, ??P3 is janina 15:35:01 +janina; got it 15:35:09 JB: text product to associate action items to 15:35:22 present+ Marco_Rannon 15:35:30 present- Marco_Rannon 15:35:36 present+ Marco_Ranon 15:36:02 next agendum 15:36:09 close agendum 15:36:12 open agendum 2 15:36:20 JB: 3 that fall into this category 15:36:50 JB: reviewing in detail 15:36:55 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2011Apr/0453.html ; 15:36:55 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2011Apr/0452.html ; 15:36:55 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2011Apr/0451.html 15:37:23 JB: 3 new ones - at least 2 fall under this subgroup's purview; third might as well 15:37:31 JB: one has to do with validation of @alt 15:37:37 JB: another normative guidance for @alt 15:39:03 JB: validation of @alt -- Rich and i began to mock-up a draft of something to review in response -- consult http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2011Apr/0451.html 15:39:06 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2011Apr/0451.html 15:39:34 JB: 6-part decision -- 6 sub-items on whether HTML5 validates with or without presence of @alt, @title, FIGCAPTION, etc. 15:40:09 JB: response missing info on how @alt works as opposed to @title (@alt has default place in visual rendering; @title does not and is transitory 15:40:36 JB: advice on Alt Text Techs -- WAI CG has interest in responding to this 15:40:48 http://www.w3.org/WAI/CG/ 15:41:23 ISSUE-31 / ISSUE-80 requirements survey: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2011Apr/0453.html 15:41:41 JB: what text to use for IMG element definition 15:41:47 GJR: this is our 1 win 15:41:50 q+ 15:42:56 GJR: changed precisely in way submitted to HTML WG 15:42:59 ack oe 15:43:06 JB: further action needed? 15:43:10 +1 15:43:15 +1 15:43:17 SF: nothing further 15:43:19 plus 1 15:43:21 +1 15:43:36 JB: other items fall in scope of this group? 15:43:38 SF: yes 15:43:39 GJR: yes 15:43:41 JF: yes 15:43:45 yes 15:43:47 JB: any objections? 15:43:49 zakim, who's here? 15:43:49 On the phone I see John_Foliot, janina, ??P4, [IPcaller], +44.208.517.aaaa, WGBH?, Rich, Gregory_Rosmaita, Judy 15:43:51 WGBH has Geoff_Freed 15:43:52 On IRC I see JF, Lynn, richardschwerdtfe, gfreed, Stevef, RRSAgent, Zakim, janina, MRanon, judy, oedipus 15:44:15 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/04/25-text-minutes.html oedipus 15:44:58 rrsagent, make logs public 15:45:09 -[IPcaller] 15:45:28 +??P6 15:45:34 zakim, ??P4 is Steve_Faulkner 15:45:34 +Steve_Faulkner; got it 15:45:46 zakim, ??P6 is me 15:45:46 +MRanon; got it 15:45:58 zakim, Steve_Faulkner is Stevef 15:45:58 +Stevef; got it 15:46:06 zakim, aaaa is Lynn_Holdsworth 15:46:06 +Lynn_Holdsworth; got it 15:46:10 agendum 3 15:46:15 take up agendum 3 15:46:24 JB: quick check for now 15:46:44 http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Verbose_desc_reqs#Requirements 15:46:47 JB: discussed last week whether having agreed-upon set of reqs from us would be helpful 15:47:01 JB: 9 items currently 15:47:11 JB: Rich only person to provide comments since last week 15:47:36 JB: anyone else have chance to review Verbose Desc Reqs this week and thoughts upon them? 15:47:56 JB: thanks to RichS for comments -- GJR integrated some and documented others 15:48:12 http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Talk:Verbose_desc_reqs 15:48:35 JF: will look at it today 15:48:53 s/today/this week/ 15:49:02 JB: any comments? 15:49:16 JF: clarification -- further feedback, straight up review -- specific deliverable? 15:49:59 JB: specific requirements may help form consensus on this TF for clarification -- haven't walked through too many clarifications as consensus activity, some of these may map against arguements/lack-of-agreement 15:50:30 JB: hoping to come up with good consensus capture of overall principles and figure out points-of-discussoin -- like to address this week on list and next week at call 15:50:48 JB: like to spend more time talking about clarification emails today 15:51:02 JB: will review requirements 15:51:05 JS: will review 15:51:23 reviewers: JF, JS, JB (already reviewed RS, GJR) 15:51:39 JF: request if comment use the [text] subject line tag 15:51:48 GF: will review, too 15:52:03 zakim, open agendum 4 15:52:03 agendum 4. "Draft clarification on title/alt (Rich/Judy drafting, will" taken up [from judy] 15:52:37 JB: @alt validation -- sent email to RS this morning -- can you clean-up and bounce-to-list? 15:52:43 RS: send note to list? 15:53:10 JB: suggested that add edits i made, strip out what indicated, and post to list -- can do myself 15:53:13 RS: please do JB 15:53:30 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/04/25-text-minutes.html oedipus 15:54:38 s/@alt validation/@alt and @title validation/ 15:55:16 JB: posting now 15:55:39 JB: Rich and i looked at the chairs' decision on validation of @alt which has 6-sub-positions in it 15:56:44 JB: noted that there appear to be some things that chairs' didn't understand as reflected in decision; collection of decisions of considerable concern; took premise that while a FO may need to be forwarded, wanted to reply to decision specifically 15:57:12 JB: 1 approach: respond to everything incorrect in decision, or highlight most important mistakes/errors 15:57:32 JB: RS found that 4 of 6 sub-decisions problematic 15:57:55 JB: would like to know if attendees agree with conclusion, and that this email captures subgroup's understanding 15:58:51 JB: 4 items: 1) aria-labelledby does not make @alt conforming; 2) role="presentation" does not make missing @alt conforming; 3) missing @title ok if no @alt; 4) FIGCAPTION 15:58:53 +Q 15:59:11 JF: skipped over meta name="generator" 15:59:37 JF: if put meta name="generator" in HEAD would allow author to not add any @alt AND validate 16:00:02 JF: personal email exception -- i shape my email in accordance with the person to whom i am sending the emessage 16:00:52 JB: any disagreement that need consensus clarification on 1) aria-labelledby does not make @alt conforming; 2) role="presentation" does not make missing @alt conforming; 3) missing @title ok if no @alt; 4) FIGCAPTION, 5) meta name="generator" 16:00:58 SF: figcaption issue? 16:01:09 JB: 1st reaction, caption can't stand in for @alt 16:02:05 JB: looked at material on-line -- FIGCAPTION in publishing has specific purpose with nothing to do with @alt -- haven't had chance to check against HTML5 draft; mis-match of purpose in my opinion 16:02:08 q? 16:02:11 ack JF 16:02:40 JB: sceintific publication, have terse caption that encapsulates image context, but not sufficient as @alt 16:02:44 q+ 16:02:44 q? 16:02:57 +q 16:03:30 GF: agree with JB -- FIGCAPTION used for totally diff purpose than @alt -- not sure if strictly used as visible label, but conflating the 2 is a HUGE mistake 16:03:33 ack stev 16:04:11 SF: allowing use of FIGCAPTION not to replace @alt -- 16:04:46 SF: @title becomes caption below image -- if person can't provide @alt, if do provide CAPTION for it, will be conforming, but not neccessarily accessible 16:04:50 q+ 16:04:55 SF: cases where users can't or will not provide @alt 16:04:58 ack JF 16:05:22 q? 16:05:24 JF: this is a problem, but this is the least of the issues facing us 16:05:28 q+ 16:05:49 JF: if i post pic of cat on flickr and use caption "the neighborhood cat" --- need to investigate positive implications 16:06:01 q+ 16:06:05 JF: is caption appropriate @alt text? better than 73525.jpg 16:06:14 ack judy 16:06:47 JB: like to review with Geoff -- FIGCAPTION use generally and specifically -- may be substantially different 16:06:57 JB: like some examples 16:07:37 q? 16:07:39 JB: goal of what is conforming is something that is accessible -- whatever we agree to in TF, has to be something specific 16:07:48 GF: will work with Judy on this 16:07:58 action: judy , geoff to look into figcaption & alt decision 16:08:14 q+ to say Flicker's inadequate ml shouldn't define good enough alt 16:08:18 JB: anyone have questions about other items RS and i identified? 16:08:42 JS: a bit confused -- don't want to set policy on bad UI design (flickr case) 16:08:50 JS: concern about conflating caption and @alt 16:09:17 JS: caption like a comment on IMG; @alt is description of IMG 16:09:19 q? 16:09:22 q? 16:09:25 ack rich 16:09:57 RS: aria-labelledby conforming -- rationale -- if author uses aria-labelledby to point to visual image, when turn image off, will have label present with image, so operates same as @alt 16:10:30 RS: use @alt or @aria-labelleby -- with labelledby saying this belongs to this particular image -- label probably centered in area reserved for image 16:10:37 RS: similar to figcaption 16:10:46 RS: showing label associated with image 16:11:27 SF: issues with labelledby is there is no need for text to be physically associated with image -- can be anywhere on page -- when image disappears, could be problematic -- FIGCAPTION has to be inside figure next to image 16:11:28 +1 to Stevef 16:12:15 SF: with labelledby need text alternative, can't be caption because of way mapped in a11y APIs -- no way to say this is not a text equivalent but a caption -- FIGCAPTION has semantic meaning; can't mistake caption for @alt 16:12:19 q+ 16:12:23 RS: view CAPTION as label 16:12:28 JF: more direct association 16:12:51 ack S 16:13:07 JF: looking at web page with list of speakers at conference -- have phone numbers -- if images turned off, have big blank square and loss of binding 16:13:10 ack J 16:13:10 janina, you wanted to say Flicker's inadequate ml shouldn't define good enough alt 16:14:29 MR: people use text with images using HTML4 -- use text as label for image, but not programmtically associated -- with HTML5 using CAPTION can be programmatically associated, but htere are cases where caption provides more info than contained in image 16:15:07 MR: authors can use labels in diff ways -- should provide authoring advice for labelledby and FIGCAPTION 16:15:16 MR: as we did for @alt 16:15:22 ack MR 16:15:31 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/04/25-text-minutes.html oedipus 16:15:39 JB: appreciate discussion -- 16:16:22 JB: wonder if people could take on individual sections to refine and post to list in next few days so can file comprehensive clarification email request by friday so can look at it at next monday's meeting and vote on consensu 16:16:56 +q 16:17:03 JB: level of detail -- would like to explore specific coordinated comprehensive clarification on each item and then sending them to HTML WG chairs with some urgency 16:17:37 JF: concerned about meta name="generator" -- currently discussion on list 16:18:05 JF: Leif raised some really good points and done very good research about auto-generated meta strings 16:18:52 JB: would like to proceed as quickly as possible -- terse response useful, may want to hold 1 or more aside to get full consensus -- idally would be good to pass along whole package at once 16:19:30 starter draft response (JB and RS) http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2011Apr/0287.html 16:19:49 JB: would generator change to decision or clarification presented 16:20:30 JF: if start multiple attacks on individual issues, may be subject to divide and conquer counter-strategy 16:20:45 JF: will chairs accept sub-decision comments individually? 16:21:20 JB: invite discussion --- suggest that we do as much work as possible, so reply to as much as can now, perhaps add comments later 16:21:36 JB: with meta name="generator" sounds like JF willing to help with drafting? 16:21:38 JF: yes 16:22:04 JB: Rich do you want to clarify the aria-labelledby sub-decision 16:22:29 RS: don't need to argue with decision -- don't care if made argument or not -- using aria-labelledby is not overwritten by @alt 16:22:36 JB: drop aria-labelledby? 16:22:41 [no objections] 16:22:49 RS: can still use, NOT a replacement for @alt 16:23:00 JB: support clarification as written? 16:23:47 JF: preence of role="presentation" should not make @alt non-conforming 16:23:58 RS: failure condition if have @alt and role="presentation" 16:24:09 JS: think they want alt="" for presentational images 16:24:12 RS: redundant 16:24:14 JS: agree 16:25:04 JF: authoring tools will always insert alt="something" -- if don't put in value, most will put in alt="" -- presentation role is additional info -- whay if add one remove other? 16:25:21 q? 16:25:22 RS: if marked role="presentation" no reason to add alt="" -- author designated as presentational 16:25:27 ack jf 16:25:57 JS: problem other way around -- encourage use of role="presentation" less ambiguous than alt="" 16:26:26 not a hill I'm willing to die on 16:26:29 q+ 16:26:39 RS: @alt with role="presenetation" eliminates need for alt="" and includes it in A11y API level -- want to keep presentation from a11y APIs -- stuck with @alt 16:26:44 ack stv 16:26:47 ack st 16:27:49 SF: agree with RS, but in HMTL5 says @alt="" is same as role="presentation" which means that any img with alt="" is equivalent to role="presentation" 16:27:54 RS: either or correct? 16:28:34 SF: prefer to use role="presentaion" because is clearer semantically -- counsel use both or one (role="presentation") 16:28:45 RS: role="presentation" does what we need 16:29:27 SF: role="presentation" is in a11y layer; alt="" will be represented differently in view where images disabled -- if role="presentation" won't treat same way -- need to treat null alt as role="presentation" 16:30:01 JB: could RS and SF take this discussion to email and report back to the group? 16:30:03 SF: yes 16:30:26 RS: will do my best 16:30:46 JB: rescanning 6 issues: aria-labelleby decision ok? 16:30:56 JB: role="presentation" needs more info from RS and SF 16:31:52 action: Rich and Steve to draft reply to role="presentation" sub-decision for discussion at next week's meeting 16:32:26 q+ 16:32:59 JB: please review contents of http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2011Apr/0287.html and let us know if section beginning "title"... 16:33:15 "Unlike alt="", role="presentation" has the added value of removing the image from the accessibility API object tree, effectively filtering out the image and improving assistive technology performance. Furthermore, a role of resentation is to state the intent of the author in a declarative fashion. For these reasons, role="presentation" should be considered a suitable alternative to... 16:33:17 ...requiring alt when it adds no meaningful information to an AT." 16:33:31 SF: agree with what is in email, have further comments and ideas 16:33:50 SF: will list what i perceive as problems, add to RS and JB's prose and repost to list 16:34:11 JB: propose your terse addition? link to more detailed explanations fine 16:34:21 SF: just add terse recommendation with links as needed 16:34:45 -Stevef 16:35:05 action: Steve - add terse statement about role="presentation" to RS and JB's prose and repost to list 16:35:44 JB: Geoff -- please respond to SteveF's posts from the past several days 16:35:47 GF: will do 16:36:04 JB: FIGCAPTION needs more investigation and a report back to group 16:36:05 +q 16:36:09 ack st 16:36:21 +q 16:36:40 JB: for FIGCAPTION, would like for us to consense a comprehensive reply to this by next monday's meeting or VERY early in week 16:37:33 JF: when look at 6, 2 critical ones are meta name="geneartor" and @title as replacement for @alt 16:37:47 JF: FIGCAPTION and labelledby worth looking at but not "dying" for 16:37:56 ack JF 16:38:10 JF: severity: @tltle and generator most severe 16:38:26 JB: looking at comprehensive clarification on what we do not agree with in decsions 16:39:06 JF: getting clarification back may be useful 16:39:25 JB: want to get comprehensive clarification request out as soon as possible 16:39:46 JF: suggesting that as move forward, some things more critical to others 16:40:14 GF: agree with JF -- @title in place of @alt is a SERIOUS problem 16:40:32 +1 t Geoff 16:40:46 s/early in the week/early in the week, and send these as clarification to the chairs; then see if reclarification is needed; and proceed with formal objections with expedited appeal as needed 16:40:51 GF: don't want to break implementations -- drove home to everyone to use @alt -- changing that to say @title is ok is going to mess up a lot of work already done-- not a good idea period 16:41:26 JB: draft email has very terse clarifications -- appears to me there are multiple misunderstandings in charis' decision 16:41:38 JB: may be important from POV of priciples 16:41:59 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2011Apr/0287.html 16:42:11 +q 16:42:54 GF: if not mistaken, most SRs come with there presets defaulting to @alt not @title 16:43:05 GF: SR users often don't personalize settings 16:43:11 JB: add as comment to section? 16:43:14 GF: ok 16:43:22 ack gf 16:43:28 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/04/25-text-minutes.html oedipus 16:44:14 JB: want to make 3 comments on other decisions -- location of @alt techniques (WAI CG responding to that -- may be able to review in detail next monday 16:44:25 zakim, take up agendum 5 16:44:25 agendum 5. "Update on formal objection on normative accessibility" taken up [from judy] 16:44:43 JB: any objections to waiting for WAI CG report/draft 16:44:53 JB: already a formal objection from SF on this 16:45:35 JB: clarification that may set basis for formal objection 16:45:51 zakim, take up agendum 6 16:45:51 agendum 6. "Continue planning clarification mails on rejected" taken up [from judy] 16:46:19 JB: scope includes rejections on @longdesc, @summary for TABLE, and @poster 16:47:01 JB: email discussion on each of these -- some very lengthy -- can we prepare parrallell clarification emails 16:47:32 JB: for @longdesc there is enough material to fill a book -- posibliity of starting more formal dialouge based on terse extraction from @longdesc materails 16:48:05 JB: poster issue may be easiest to tackle -- JF work with someone to turn into parrallell comment / basis for future formal objection 16:48:38 JF: filed FO on alt poster -- said technical stuff inconsistent, even though requested assistance on technical stuff 16:49:28 JB: would you work with someone (probably JB) to draft next-round clarification and re-draft reply with JB to prepare something for the group to review next monday 16:49:43 JF: sean hayes of MS has offered to help me with technical portion of FO 16:49:45 zakim, who's here? 16:49:45 On the phone I see John_Foliot, janina, Lynn_Holdsworth, WGBH?, Rich, Gregory_Rosmaita, Judy, MRanon 16:49:48 WGBH has Geoff_Freed 16:49:49 On IRC I see JF, Lynn, richardschwerdtfe, gfreed, RRSAgent, Zakim, janina, MRanon, judy, oedipus 16:50:05 geoff has to run. 16:50:11 JB: anyone who wants to write a sentence or 2 on alt poster? 16:50:15 -WGBH? 16:50:33 JB: can we have draft clarification email for monday for voting on monday by group 16:50:59 JB: assume that people have read pertinent emails 16:51:26 action: JohnF, judy, sean work on reclarification email on poster-alt (alt-poster) 16:51:38 JB: techincally "poster alt" but should be "alt poster" 16:51:50 JB: table sujmmary -- draft of clarification email? 16:51:56 GJR: have a CP for summary as element 16:52:27 JB: GJR can you draft email in format of email RS and JB circulated 16:52:33 GJR: yes, will ping if necessary 16:52:51 action: clarification email for @summary for HTML WG chairs 16:53:05 JB: @longdesc 16:54:07 JB: LauraC been in touch -- was going to try to attend last part of call -- may need to try to stablize discussion and get clarification of things at this time that could send from this subgroup to chairs, see what chairs reply and depending on circumstances draft an FO 16:54:43 JB: may make sense to work on other responses this week to get template and basis for future work 16:54:51 agenda? 16:55:43 zakim, take up agendum 8 16:55:43 agendum 8. "Recap of action items and timelines" taken up [from judy] 16:56:04 RS: Steve and i will look at section on role="presentation" and @alt 16:56:17 JB: Rich ok to scribe next week? 16:56:18 -Rich 16:56:19 RS: yes 16:57:11 JF: looking at meta generator to produce terse text; working with JB on alt poster 16:57:17 GJR: @summary for table 16:57:30 JB: scribe volunteer for 2 weeks from today? 16:57:40 richardschwerdtfe has left #text 16:57:46 MR: won't be on call next week (bank holiday in UK) 16:58:01 MR: won't be available for next 2 weeks 16:58:10 JB: meeting next monday, same time, same IRC channel 16:58:23 [ADJOURNED] 16:58:27 -MRanon 16:58:27 part #text 16:58:32 Lynn has left #text 16:58:35 -Judy 16:58:37 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/04/25-text-minutes.html oedipus 16:58:42 -Gregory_Rosmaita 16:58:43 -Lynn_Holdsworth 16:58:51 zakim, please part 16:58:51 leaving. As of this point the attendees were John_Foliot, [IPcaller], +44.208.517.aaaa, Eric_Carlson, +1.617.300.aabb, Rich, Gregory_Rosmaita, Judy, Geoff_Freed, janina, MRanon, 16:58:51 Zakim has left #text 16:58:54 ... Stevef, Lynn_Holdsworth 16:58:55 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/04/25-text-minutes.html oedipus 16:59:02 janina has left #text 17:00:09 present- +1.617.300.aabb, +44.208.517.aaaa, [IPcaller] 17:00:11 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/04/25-text-minutes.html oedipus 17:12:36 s/VERY early in week/early in the week, and send these as clarification to the chairs; then see if reclarification is needed; and proceed with formal objections with expedited appeal as needed/ 17:12:38 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/04/25-text-minutes.html oedipus 17:13:12 s/part #text// 17:13:13 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/04/25-text-minutes.html oedipus 17:13:49 present- MRanon 17:13:51 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/04/25-text-minutes.html oedipus 17:17:33 rrsagent, please part 17:17:33 I see 5 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2011/04/25-text-actions.rdf : 17:17:33 ACTION: judy , geoff to look into figcaption & alt decision [1] 17:17:33 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/04/25-text-irc#T16-07-58 17:17:33 ACTION: Rich and Steve to draft reply to role="presentation" sub-decision for discussion at next week's meeting [2] 17:17:33 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/04/25-text-irc#T16-31-52 17:17:33 ACTION: Steve - add terse statement about role="presentation" to RS and JB's prose and repost to list [3] 17:17:33 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/04/25-text-irc#T16-35-05 17:17:33 ACTION: JohnF, judy, sean work on reclarification email on poster-alt (alt-poster) [4] 17:17:33 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/04/25-text-irc#T16-51-26 17:17:33 ACTION: clarification email for @summary for HTML WG chairs [5] 17:17:33 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/04/25-text-irc#T16-52-51