15:50:41 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #htmlspeech
15:50:41 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/04/21-htmlspeech-irc
15:50:46 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #htmlspeech
15:50:54 <burn> trackbot, start telcon
15:50:56 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
15:50:58 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 
15:50:59 <Zakim> I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
15:50:59 <trackbot> Meeting: HTML Speech Incubator Group Teleconference
15:50:59 <trackbot> Date: 21 April 2011
15:51:01 <burn> zakim, this will be htmlspeech
15:51:01 <Zakim> ok, burn; I see INC_(HTMLSPEECH)12:00PM scheduled to start in 9 minutes
15:51:12 <burn> Chair:  Dan Burnett
15:54:28 <Zakim> INC_(HTMLSPEECH)12:00PM has now started
15:54:35 <Zakim> +Dan_Burnett
15:54:43 <burn> zakim, I am Dan_Burnett
15:54:44 <Zakim> ok, burn, I now associate you with Dan_Burnett
15:55:26 <Zakim> +Michael_Bodell
15:56:14 <Michael_Bodell> Michael_Bodell has joined #htmlspeech
15:56:29 <burn> zakim, nick Michael_Bodell is Michael_Bodell
15:56:29 <Zakim> ok, burn, I now associate Michael_Bodell with Michael_Bodell
15:56:48 <Zakim> +??P32
15:57:02 <smaug_> Zakim, ??P32 is Olli_Pettay
15:57:02 <Zakim> +Olli_Pettay; got it
15:58:12 <smaug_> Zakim, nick smaug_ is Olli_Pettay
15:58:16 <Zakim> ok, smaug_, I now associate you with Olli_Pettay
15:58:42 <Zakim> +Milan_Young
15:59:16 <Milan_Young> Milan_Young has joined #htmlspeech
15:59:39 <burn> zakim, nick Milan_Young is Milan_Young
15:59:39 <Zakim> ok, burn, I now associate Milan_Young with Milan_Young
16:00:29 <Zakim> + +1.818.237.aaaa
16:00:49 <burn> zakim, aaaa is Patrick_Ehlen
16:00:49 <Zakim> +Patrick_Ehlen; got it
16:01:01 <Zakim> +Charles_Hemphill
16:01:10 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
16:01:33 <burn> zakim, [Microsoft] is Robert_Brown
16:01:33 <Zakim> +Robert_Brown; got it
16:01:33 <smaug_> there is some echo
16:01:58 <ddahl> ddahl has joined #htmlspeech
16:02:05 <Zakim> + +1.760.705.aabb - is perhaps AZ?
16:02:11 <Zakim> + +1.425.580.aacc
16:02:16 <Robert> Robert has joined #htmlspeech
16:02:30 <Zakim> +Debbie_Dahl
16:02:31 <burn> zakim, aacc is Dan_Druta
16:02:31 <Zakim> +Dan_Druta; got it
16:02:50 <burn> zakim, aabb is Bjorn_Bringert
16:02:50 <Zakim> sorry, burn, I do not recognize a party named 'aabb'
16:03:12 <burn> zakim, AZ? is Bjorn_Bringert
16:03:12 <Zakim> +Bjorn_Bringert; got it
16:04:12 <burn> Agenda:  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-htmlspeech/2011Apr/0031.html 
16:04:24 <burn> Scribe:  Dan Druta
16:06:22 <Robert> microphone problems...
16:06:29 <smaug_> :)
16:06:29 <Robert> I'm goign to call in again... :/
16:06:42 <Robert> mea culpa :$
16:06:46 <Zakim> -Robert_Brown
16:07:28 <Zakim> + +1.425.421.aadd
16:07:47 <burn> zakim, aadd is Robert_Brown
16:07:47 <Zakim> +Robert_Brown; got it
16:08:17 <ehlen> ehlen has joined #htmlspeech
16:08:19 <Zakim> -Robert_Brown
16:08:44 <ddahl> zakim, who is here?
16:08:44 <Zakim> On the phone I see Dan_Burnett, Michael_Bodell, Olli_Pettay, Milan_Young, Patrick_Ehlen, Charles_Hemphill, Bjorn_Bringert, Dan_Druta, Debbie_Dahl
16:08:46 <Zakim> On IRC I see ehlen, ddahl, Milan_Young, Michael_Bodell, Zakim, RRSAgent, burn, bringert, smaug_, trackbot
16:09:07 <burn> zakim, nick ehlen is Patrick_Ehlen
16:09:07 <Zakim> ok, burn, I now associate ehlen with Patrick_Ehlen
16:09:58 <burn> zakim, nick bringert is Bjorn_Bringert
16:09:58 <Zakim> ok, burn, I now associate bringert with Bjorn_Bringert
16:10:35 <Charles> Charles has joined #htmlspeech
16:10:53 <burn> zakim, nick Charles is Charles_Hemphill
16:10:53 <Zakim> ok, burn, I now associate Charles with Charles_Hemphill
16:11:14 <burn> zakim, who is here?
16:11:15 <Zakim> On the phone I see Dan_Burnett, Michael_Bodell, Olli_Pettay, Milan_Young, Patrick_Ehlen, Charles_Hemphill, Bjorn_Bringert, Dan_Druta, Debbie_Dahl
16:11:17 <Zakim> On IRC I see Charles, ehlen, ddahl, Milan_Young, Michael_Bodell, Zakim, RRSAgent, burn, bringert, smaug_, trackbot
16:13:29 <burn> Scribe:  Oll_Pettay
16:13:36 <burn> ScribeNick:  smaug_
16:13:45 <burn> Scribe:  Olli_Pettay
16:13:55 <burn> Agenda:  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-htmlspeech/2011Apr/0031.html 
16:14:10 <smaug_> Topic: f2f Logistics
16:14:13 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
16:14:32 <burn> zakim, [Microsoft] is Robert_Brown
16:14:32 <Zakim> +Robert_Brown; got it
16:14:38 <smaug_> bringert: everyone should have got email about the hotel booking
16:15:00 <smaug_> bringert: if you have not got the email, let me know
16:15:07 <Robert> Robert has joined #htmlspeech
16:15:52 <smaug_> topic: updated "Final report" document
16:15:59 <smaug_> Topic: updated "Final report" document
16:16:06 <burn> document is at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-htmlspeech/2011Apr/att-0028/HTMLSpeech.html
16:17:11 <smaug_> burn: are there any concerns how I worded section 3.3?
16:17:36 <smaug_> Topic: Determine if we already have other agreed-upon design decisions.
16:18:26 <smaug_> bringert: it seems that SGRS should be the only mandated grammar format
16:18:54 <smaug_> Robert: XML format of SGRS
16:20:07 <ddahl> s/SGRS/SRGS
16:20:15 <smaug_> oops
16:20:19 <smaug_> thanks ddahl 
16:20:46 <Milan_Young> Dan: clairified that "mandate" means something that will be required of all (conforming)  implementations.  Implementations can always go further.
16:22:01 <smaug_> bringert: are there any other formats than SSML for TTS which should be supported?
16:22:09 <smaug_> bringert: like plain text?
16:22:27 <smaug_> burn: yes, I'd like to support UTF-8 text
16:22:53 <smaug_> burn: i18n group may have opinion on that
16:24:05 <smaug_> bringert: I propose  SRGS 1.0 and SSML 1.1
16:27:07 <smaug_> burn: I think this is fine for now
16:28:01 <smaug_> burn: we need to require SRGS 1.0
16:28:16 <Milan_Young> Milan: require SISR 1.0
16:28:41 <burn> group:  general agreement 
16:29:42 <smaug_> bringert: a topic we may not agree is the fallback
16:30:44 <smaug_> bringert: whether we require everything to be supported consistently  and how to handle not supported features
16:33:15 <smaug_> bringert: I'd like to make sure the focus is on to let web developers to do new things
16:33:34 <ddahl> +1 to reversing the order of the paragraphs in the context section
16:34:39 <smaug_> burn: any other comments about Dan's overview paragraph?
16:35:05 <smaug_> burn: we can continue on email list on that
16:35:47 <smaug_> bringert: one thing to think about; whether ASR and TTS APIs should be separate
16:36:38 <smaug_> Robert: we included them in the same spec.
16:37:07 <smaug_> Michael_Bodell: there may be similar parameters, and features like barge-in may require them to be coupled
16:38:03 <smaug_> bringert: does MS think that we need a separate methods for barge-in?
16:38:09 <smaug_> Robert: that is unclear
16:39:24 <smaug_> Michael_Bodell: we don't see any strong reasons for shared API, though not for non-shared API either
16:39:52 <smaug_> Robert: in our API for example error handling is shared
16:40:13 <smaug_> bringert: it might be good to have two simple APIs
16:40:40 <smaug_> Robert: there clearly will be two different objects for ASR/TTS
16:41:40 <smaug_> Robert: if we agree on loose coupling, that is probably ok
16:42:43 <smaug_> bringert: I think better to share as little as possible
16:45:06 <smaug_> bringert: could we agree that both ASR and TTS should be separately implementable?
16:45:17 <smaug_> ...and useable
16:46:20 <smaug_> ...it shouldn't be impossible to implement either one without the other one
16:50:23 <smaug_> bringert: another issue is that whether the details of the protocol between UA and engine should be visible ?
16:51:26 <smaug_> Milan_Young: in case like Sathish's proposal using websocket, webapp would see the protocol
16:51:44 <smaug_> bringert: but what about MS' or Mozilla's proposal
16:53:50 <smaug_> bringert: keeping the protocol details hidden allows UA/engines to use better protocols in the future
16:54:38 <smaug_> burn: there is clearly more to discuss on this 
16:55:48 <smaug_> burn:" how much of the detail of the protocol should be visible in the API or WebApp"
16:57:26 <smaug_> bringert: about consistent ux. there should be reasonable fallbacks
16:58:03 <smaug_> bringert: I think fallback applies only to default engine
16:58:50 <smaug_> Milan_Young: webapp developer should have consistent functionality
17:00:02 <smaug_> ddahl: they are two separate topics, consistent end user experience and consistent developer experience
17:01:10 <smaug_> Milan_Young: it would be nice to say that you have the same experience if you use the same engines across the browsers
17:01:26 <smaug_> bringert: might not be possible because of microphones etc
17:02:45 <smaug_> bringert: I'm talking about how we should design the API, not about Dan's summary
17:03:23 <ddahl> we should have the goal of making the end user experience as consistent as possible across browsers, but there are things that are out of our control, like recognizer accuracy.
17:03:40 <Milan_Young> Milan: Goals: 1) Consistent as possilbe user experience 2) Consistent programming model when using default engine 3) Identical experience when using same engine
17:05:02 <smaug_> bringert: I'd like to have a list where web apps could rely on certain things, expect like supported languages etc.
17:08:48 <smaug_> bringert: so we could guarantee that the fallback is similar
17:08:57 <smaug_> bringert: I'd like to list where the outcome can be different
17:09:58 <smaug_> ddahl: it would be good exercise to enumerate such features  
17:10:35 <smaug_> Milan_Young: there was a different approach
17:10:51 <smaug_> Milan_Young: small set of mandatory supported things
17:11:17 <smaug_> bringert: but this allows things outside the mandatory set
17:12:36 <smaug_> bringert: browsers have all sorts of extensions to standards (CSS, elements, etc)
17:13:35 <smaug_> bringert: so we agree that there should be small mandatory set, but not that one could use other features?
17:14:29 <Zakim> +Michael_Johnston
17:14:43 <burn> Regrets:  Raj Tumuluri
17:15:53 <burn> for the minutes:  disagreement on the mechanism for using capabilities outside of mandated interoperable set
17:16:24 <burn> ... and on where (default engine, remote engine, or both) you can
17:18:17 <Milan_Young> Milan: custom grammars would be prefixed with an x for example
17:19:06 <smaug_> bringert: for each feature we need to say how the extensions and fallbacks work
17:19:48 <smaug_> bringert: productive way could be to enumerate the features which may need extensions and/or fallbacks
17:20:11 <smaug_> burn: even for SSML this was a big discussion topic
17:22:38 <smaug_> bringert: concrete example: I have a speech app which want to handle certain language. I'd like to fail if the language isn't supported
17:24:16 <smaug_> Dan_D: maybe good way to look at this is to list configurable features
17:27:17 <smaug_> Michael_Bodell: shepazu sent email about CSS 3 Speech
17:27:28 <smaug_> bringert: CSS is only about synthesis?
17:27:30 <smaug_> burn: yes
17:29:07 <Zakim> -Robert_Brown
17:29:08 <Zakim> -Bjorn_Bringert
17:29:08 <Zakim> -Olli_Pettay
17:29:09 <Zakim> -Michael_Bodell
17:29:09 <Zakim> -Patrick_Ehlen
17:29:10 <Zakim> -Debbie_Dahl
17:29:10 <Zakim> -Dan_Burnett
17:29:12 <Zakim> -Dan_Druta
17:29:14 <Zakim> -Milan_Young
17:29:16 <Zakim> -Charles_Hemphill
17:30:16 <burn> zakim, who's on the phone?
17:30:16 <Zakim> On the phone I see Michael_Johnston
17:30:26 <burn> zakim, bye
17:30:26 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees were Dan_Burnett, Michael_Bodell, Olli_Pettay, Milan_Young, +1.818.237.aaaa, Patrick_Ehlen, Charles_Hemphill, Robert_Brown,
17:30:26 <Zakim> Zakim has left #htmlspeech
17:30:30 <Zakim> ... +1.760.705.aabb, +1.425.580.aacc, Debbie_Dahl, Dan_Druta, Bjorn_Bringert, +1.425.421.aadd, Michael_Johnston
17:31:04 <burn> rrsagent, draft minutes
17:31:04 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/04/21-htmlspeech-minutes.html burn
17:31:10 <burn> rrsagent, make log public
17:46:54 <ddahl> ddahl has left #htmlspeech