IRC log of er on 2011-04-20

Timestamps are in UTC.

12:14:59 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #er
12:14:59 [RRSAgent]
logging to
12:15:01 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
12:15:03 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be 3794
12:15:04 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see WAI_ERTWG()8:30AM scheduled to start in 15 minutes
12:15:04 [trackbot]
Meeting: Evaluation and Repair Tools Working Group Teleconference
12:15:05 [trackbot]
Date: 20 April 2011
12:15:13 [shadi]
chair: Shadi
12:15:19 [shadi]
regrets: Rui
12:15:38 [cstrobbe]
cstrobbe has joined #er
12:15:47 [shadi]
12:17:00 [shadi]
agenda+ Welcome
12:17:00 [shadi]
agenda+ [HTTP-in-RDF] StatusCode issue
12:17:00 [shadi]
agenda+ [HTTP-in-RDF] abs_path issue
12:17:00 [shadi]
agenda+ [Content-in-RDF] Content Class
12:17:00 [shadi]
agenda+ [EARL Schema] clarify the aspect of casting in example 6
12:17:01 [shadi]
agenda+ [EARL Schema] use of URIs, URNs, and other identifiers
12:17:03 [shadi]
agenda+ Misc open comments, if any
12:17:05 [shadi]
agenda+ Upcoming meeting schedule
12:26:55 [philip_]
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12:27:22 [shadi]
zakim, call shadi-617
12:27:22 [Zakim]
ok, shadi; the call is being made
12:27:24 [Zakim]
WAI_ERTWG()8:30AM has now started
12:27:24 [Zakim]
12:28:59 [shadi]
regrets: Rui, CarlosV
12:29:49 [Zakim]
12:29:57 [Zakim]
12:30:13 [shadi]
zakim, ? is Philip
12:30:13 [Zakim]
+Philip; got it
12:31:28 [kostas]
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12:31:38 [Zakim]
12:32:55 [shadi]
scribe: Christophe
12:33:09 [shadi]
scribenick: cstrobbe
12:33:22 [cstrobbe]
zakim, agenda?
12:33:22 [Zakim]
I see 8 items remaining on the agenda:
12:33:24 [Zakim]
1. Welcome [from shadi]
12:33:26 [Zakim]
2. [HTTP-in-RDF] StatusCode issue [from shadi]
12:33:28 [Zakim]
3. [HTTP-in-RDF] abs_path issue [from shadi]
12:33:30 [Zakim]
4. [Content-in-RDF] Content Class [from shadi]
12:33:32 [Zakim]
5. [EARL Schema] clarify the aspect of casting in example 6 [from shadi]
12:33:34 [Zakim]
6. [EARL Schema] use of URIs, URNs, and other identifiers [from shadi]
12:33:36 [Zakim]
7. Misc open comments, if any [from shadi]
12:33:38 [Zakim]
8. Upcoming meeting schedule [from shadi]
12:33:42 [cstrobbe]
zakim, take up agendum 1
12:33:42 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "Welcome" taken up [from shadi]
12:33:43 [shadi]
zakim, take up agendum 1
12:33:43 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "Welcome" taken up [from shadi]
12:34:14 [cstrobbe]
Shadi: Waiting for input from Ed Dumbill re software class in FOAF
12:34:42 [cstrobbe]
Shadi: EARL Guide: rename to Developer Guide...; move conformance clauses to this REC doc
12:35:15 [cstrobbe]
Shadi: Issues list has been updated (see link in first agendum)
12:35:38 [cstrobbe]
Shadi: Many issues now "pending" because we have tentative resoltutions; to be checked by the editors
12:35:46 [cstrobbe]
Shadi: Questions?
12:35:54 [cstrobbe]
zakim, take up agendum 2
12:35:54 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "[HTTP-in-RDF] StatusCode issue" taken up [from shadi]
12:36:04 [shadi]
12:36:26 [cstrobbe]
Shadi: Also discussed last week; summary sent to mailing list.
12:37:05 [cstrobbe]
Shadi: thouights on proposed resoltion?
12:37:53 [cstrobbe]
Kostas: Second proposal to change the statusCodeNumber from "value sent by the server" to "should value"...
12:38:26 [cstrobbe]
Shadi: some people use it to debug servers, so there was a proposal to use statements about how servers respond to certain headers etc
12:38:47 [cstrobbe]
Shadi: If we remove it, we will need a very good reason.
12:39:23 [shadi]
12:39:23 [cstrobbe]
Shadi: Do you have specific concerns with having the "should" value?
12:39:47 [cstrobbe]
Shadi: predefined statusCodes are in the spec (cf URL)
12:40:24 [cstrobbe]
Shadi: Having the number as part of the predefined statusCode class; currently the number is only inside the header. Issues with this?
12:40:53 [cstrobbe]
Kostas: If we need to "should value" then there is probably no problem.
12:41:13 [cstrobbe]
Shadi: Should have "should" value and value sent by server. Useful for consistency checking
12:41:58 [cstrobbe]
Shadi: We have a number of design choices (dc:Identifier; integer datatype...)
12:42:38 [cstrobbe]
Shadi: Subproperty of dc:identifier - if we have a use case for this. xml:integer.
12:43:03 [cstrobbe]
Philip: xml:integer is a good idea. Better for tools that process it.
12:43:30 [cstrobbe]
Philip: subproperty of dc:identifier is also a good idea
12:43:52 [cstrobbe]
Christophe: no preference
12:44:38 [cstrobbe]
Shadi: when using an XML datatype: xml preprocessors can have tools to preprocess the data.
12:44:58 [cstrobbe]
Shadi: subproperty design: best practice in RDF.
12:45:21 [cstrobbe]
Shadi: since we are using a restricted use of dc:identifier, a subproperty would be appropriate
12:45:48 [cstrobbe]
Kostas: subproperty of dc:identifier looks like good idea
12:46:12 [cstrobbe]
Shadi: send this as a suggested resolution to the list to see if anyone has objections.
12:47:21 [cstrobbe]
RESOLUTION: create a subproperty of dc:identifier called statusCodeValue with an xml:integer datatype and with domain statusCode class.
12:47:47 [cstrobbe]
zakim, take up agendum 3
12:47:47 [Zakim]
agendum 3. "[HTTP-in-RDF] abs_path issue" taken up [from shadi]
12:47:54 [shadi]
12:48:25 [cstrobbe]
Shadi: basically a naming issue; current name is based on HTTP spec; but other names use camel case.
12:48:42 [cstrobbe]
Shadi: matter of preference
12:49:04 [cstrobbe]
Shadi: current implementers would need to change their tools, but better now than later
12:49:18 [cstrobbe]
Group: no objects to name change
12:49:51 [cstrobbe]
RESOLUTION: change abs_path property name to absolutePath
12:50:45 [cstrobbe]
zakim, take up agendum 4
12:50:45 [Zakim]
agendum 4. "[Content-in-RDF] Content Class" taken up [from shadi]
12:50:50 [shadi]
12:51:57 [cstrobbe]
Shadi: used rdf:about; i.e. byte sequence is something about the object
12:52:34 [cstrobbe]
Shadi: suggesion is to use "dct:isFormatOf" and "dc:hasFormat" to express relationships between content representations
12:53:14 [cstrobbe]
Shadi: looks like a better model
12:53:52 [cstrobbe]
Shadi: Johannes Koch seemed to be in agreement with this proposal
12:54:05 [cstrobbe]
Shadi: questions, thoughts, objections?
12:55:25 [cstrobbe]
Philip: Seems to provide better flexibility for later use
12:56:03 [cstrobbe]
Philip: have implemented Content in RDF but this does not seem a major change
12:56:15 [cstrobbe]
Kostas: Accessible tool has not implemented it
12:57:26 [shadi]
use "dct:isFormatOf" and "dc:hasFormat" rather than "rdf:about" and
12:57:26 [shadi]
"dct:source" to express relationships between content representations
12:57:26 [shadi]
and between the original source
12:57:42 [cstrobbe]
RESOLUTION: use "dct:isFormatOf" and "dc:hasFormat" rather than "rdf:about" "dct:source" to express relationships between content representations and between the original source
12:58:10 [cstrobbe]
zakim, take up agendum 5
12:58:10 [Zakim]
agendum 5. "[EARL Schema] clarify the aspect of casting in example 6" taken up [from shadi]
12:58:16 [shadi]
12:59:25 [cstrobbe]
Shadi: Assertor class: example 6: person (Bob) using a tool (Cool Tool) to help makind decision
13:00:29 [cstrobbe]
Shadi: the resource described is both a foaf:Agent and a earl:Software at the same time. This is by design.
13:01:22 [cstrobbe]
Shadi: If the software were a test subject, it would not be an agent. That is why we did not make earl:Sofware subclass of agent.
13:01:47 [cstrobbe]
Shadi: We could add a note to the example explaining the casting aspect and why the code is correct.
13:02:02 [cstrobbe]
Christophe: Would like a small explanation.
13:02:29 [cstrobbe]
Shadi: Comments?
13:02:52 [cstrobbe]
Shadi: also refer readers to RDF primer. Some developers are RDF geeks, others aren't.
13:03:59 [cstrobbe]
Philip: About same example: foaf:member is in domain of foaf:group. ... (question)
13:05:26 [cstrobbe]
Shadi: foaf:member has the domain foaf:group, and foaf:group is a subclass of foaf:agent; foaf:agent does not have foaf:member as domain.
13:06:22 [shadi]
13:06:28 [cstrobbe]
Shadi: looks like an issue
13:06:53 [cstrobbe]
Shadi: quote: "The Group class represents a collection of individual agents (and may itself play the role of a Agent, something that can perform actions). "
13:07:15 [cstrobbe]
Shadi: so example 6 should not be foaf:agent but foaf:group: group of agents working together.
13:08:17 [cstrobbe]
Philip: OK.
13:08:58 [cstrobbe]
RESOLUTION: add a note to the example 6 explaining the casting aspect and why the code is correct
13:09:31 [cstrobbe]
RESOLUTION: to change in example 6 the class from foaf:agent to foaf:group.
13:09:57 [cstrobbe]
zakim, take up agendum 6
13:09:57 [Zakim]
agendum 6. "[EARL Schema] use of URIs, URNs, and other identifiers" taken up [from shadi]
13:10:29 [cstrobbe]
Shadi: on test subjects and test criterion classes
13:10:32 [shadi]
13:11:13 [cstrobbe]
Shadi: see example 7: test subject at, which has several parts
13:11:59 [cstrobbe]
Shadi: RDF uses URIs to identify resources. In our case, these will be mostly HTTP-based URIs, but it could also be FTP or local
13:12:19 [cstrobbe]
Shadi: URNs and isbn (for example) would also be valid.
13:13:03 [cstrobbe]
Shadi: the only limitation: things that can have an URI
13:13:43 [cstrobbe]
Shadi: if test subject is not in the Internet, file system ... you would not be able of reference it directly
13:14:25 [cstrobbe]
Christophe: example at
13:14:56 [cstrobbe]
Shadi: test subject is DAISY book
13:15:23 [cstrobbe]
Shadi: any other questions?
13:16:25 [cstrobbe]
Shadi: This takes is through all the open issues except Software class and EARL guide rewrite.
13:17:38 [cstrobbe]
Kostas: comments on Pointers in RDF doc?
13:17:42 [cstrobbe]
zakim, take up agendum 7
13:17:42 [Zakim]
agendum 7. "Misc open comments, if any" taken up [from shadi]
13:17:52 [shadi]
13:18:49 [cstrobbe]
Kostas: e.g. ptr:byteOffset
13:19:21 [shadi]
13:20:24 [shadi]
"char offset" --> "byte offset"
13:20:28 [cstrobbe]
Shadi: see second table in appendix A:
13:21:03 [cstrobbe]
RESOLUTION: at change >"char offset" --> "byte offset" for property ptr:bytOffset
13:22:30 [cstrobbe]
Shadi: Philip taking over editing work from Johannes - for HTTP in RDF and Content in RDF?
13:23:07 [cstrobbe]
Shadi: would then be editor's draft that we will look at again.
13:24:05 [cstrobbe]
zakim, take up agendum 8
13:24:05 [Zakim]
agendum 8. "Upcoming meeting schedule" taken up [from shadi]
13:24:19 [cstrobbe]
Shadi: next week: 27 April
13:24:47 [Zakim]
13:24:49 [Zakim]
13:24:49 [Zakim]
13:24:50 [Zakim]
13:24:50 [Zakim]
WAI_ERTWG()8:30AM has ended
13:24:52 [Zakim]
Attendees were Shadi, Christophe_Strobbe, Philip, Kostas
13:25:45 [shadi]
trackbot, end meeting
13:25:45 [trackbot]
Zakim, list attendees
13:25:45 [Zakim]
sorry, trackbot, I don't know what conference this is
13:25:46 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, please draft minutes
13:25:46 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate trackbot
13:25:47 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, bye
13:25:47 [RRSAgent]
I see no action items