17:14:52 RRSAgent has joined #gallery 17:14:52 logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/04/15-gallery-irc 17:14:56 chair: judy 17:14:59 scribe: jeanne 17:17:14 korn has joined #gallery 17:19:03 jeanne has joined #gallery 17:30:51 zakim, code? 17:30:51 sorry, jeanne, I don't know what conference this is 17:30:57 zakim, this will be Gallery 17:30:57 ok, jeanne, I see WAI_(GALLERY)1:30PM already started 17:31:02 zakim, code? 17:31:02 the conference code is 4255379 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), jeanne 17:31:10 zakim, who's here? 17:31:10 On the phone I see +1.202.418.aaaa, +1.703.602.aabb, Judy 17:31:11 On IRC I see jeanne, korn, RRSAgent, Zakim, judy 17:31:13 + +1.617.324.aacc 17:31:37 +[Oracle] 17:31:38 Jan has joined #gallery 17:31:43 zakim, aacc is jeanne 17:31:43 +jeanne; got it 17:31:48 + +1.202.358.aadd 17:31:48 zakim, code? 17:31:49 the conference code is 4255379 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), Jan 17:31:55 zakim, Oracle is Peter 17:31:55 +Peter; got it 17:32:21 zakim aabb is John 17:32:26 +[IPcaller] 17:32:30 zakim, aaaa is Debbie 17:32:30 +Debbie; got it 17:32:35 zakim, who is here? 17:32:35 On the phone I see Debbie, +1.703.602.aabb, Judy, jeanne, Peter, +1.202.358.aadd, [IPcaller] 17:32:38 On IRC I see Jan, jeanne, korn, RRSAgent, Zakim, judy 17:32:46 zakim, [IPcaller] is really Jan 17:32:46 +Jan; got it 17:33:14 zakim, aabb is John 17:33:14 +John; got it 17:33:27 zakim, Debbie is really Debby 17:33:27 +Debby; got it 17:33:38 zakim, who is here? 17:33:38 On the phone I see Debby, John, Judy, jeanne, Peter, +1.202.358.aadd, Jan 17:33:41 On IRC I see Jan, jeanne, korn, RRSAgent, Zakim, judy 17:34:10 agenda? 17:34:26 zakim, aadd is Jamal 17:34:26 +Jamal; got it 17:34:55 zakim, take up item 1 17:34:55 agendum 1. "Update on Licensing discussion" taken up [from judy] 17:36:58 JB: There are two links in the email I sent earlier http://opensource.org/licenses/alphabetical that would allow any FCC-hosted challenge that can use any OSI-approved (Open Source Initiative) license. 17:37:22 http://opensource.org/licenses/category 17:38:02 JB: Some are useful, some may restrict what we can do. I'm not sure we can use any OSI-approved license. 17:39:01 ... We would either going to restrict the licences we accept, list the only licenses we will accept. 17:39:33 Peter: We are talking about two different situations - one is what goes through the Challenge.gov and what is sent directly to the Gallery. 17:40:18 JB: We may be looking at a more restrictive list for the Challenge, but if someone looks good, we could ask them to make it available under a less retrictive license. 17:41:01 ... I don't want to have a chilling effect, but I also don't want to spend a lot of time evaluating work that we don't want. 17:43:02 [Looking at the OSI Open Source Definitions] http://opensource.org/docs/osd 17:45:17 JB: Free distribution - some of the entries may not be able to be recognized because they are submitting under a license. 17:46:13 Jamal: An observation: A week ago, we talked about someone freely downloading a binary, but these OSI licenses require open source code. 17:46:37 JB: Some of these things don't matter to us, but could be restrictive. 17:47:36 JB: Derived Works is extremely relevant. 17:48:16 Peter: Integriry of the Author can be a problem if someone is downloading binary files. 17:48:56 JB: I worry about needing legal to vett the licenses. That would be even more time consuming. 17:50:25 ... Ian Jacobs suggested taking 4 licenses: W3C Software license, GPL, ???, ??? 17:50:54 Jan: This is the Grab and Go Gallery, so people should be able to grab and go from a license viewpoint. 17:51:12 JB: Can we do a simple front end and reserve the right to refine this issue. 17:52:08 JB: I want to move on, so we don't spend time here. 17:52:25 w3c http://www.w3.org/Consortium/Legal/2002/copyright-software-20021231 17:52:25 mit http://www.opensource.org/licenses/mit-license.php 17:52:25 cc by http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/2.0/ 17:52:25 gpl http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl.html 17:52:26 s/???, ???/MIT, CCBY 17:53:46 s/the licenses/the licenses of each submission as it comes/ 17:55:30 yep 17:55:53 JB: http://appsforcommunities.challenge.gov/rules 17:56:10 JB: Wondered if we could reuse but seems maybe too long 17:56:18 PK: Looking at (10) 17:56:34 Debby: Looking at (3) that referenced OSI 17:56:53 Jamal: SSA challenges 17:57:09 Debby: Yes but haven't looked at it 17:57:51 Jamal: Another relvant... 17:58:05 Jamal: Will send URI to list 17:58:43 Jamal: There is another challenge that came in later that uses the Amersterdam?? license, and I will send the link along to the group. 17:58:52 s/so we don't spend time here/so we're looking back at this after a writing round/ 17:59:21 +Cynthia_Shelly 18:00:39 zakim, who's making noise? 18:00:49 judy, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Debby (47%), Peter (11%) 18:01:21 zakim, mute korn 18:01:21 sorry, judy, I do not know which phone connection belongs to korn 18:01:29 zakim, mute Peter 18:01:29 Peter should now be muted 18:01:36 zakim, mute Debby 18:01:36 Debby should now be muted 18:01:55 The main idea that I believe I started with is: 18:01:55 - use an OSI-approved license for things coming into challenge.gov 18:01:55 - allow the gallery (perhaps in a "non-grab-and-go section") to also reference non-OSI web apps & templates 18:01:57 zakim, unmute Peter 18:01:57 Peter should no longer be muted 18:01:58 zakim, mute Cynthia 18:01:58 Cynthia_Shelly should now be muted 18:02:04 zakim, unmute Debby 18:02:04 Debby should no longer be muted 18:02:31 w3c http://www.w3.org/Consortium/Legal/2002/copyright-software-20021231 18:02:31 mit http://www.opensource.org/licenses/mit-license.php 18:02:31 cc by http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/2.0/ 18:02:31 gpl http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl.html 18:02:41 -Debby 18:02:45 Also: look at rules page item #3 bullets 2 & 3, and item #10 18:03:00 you are looking for the rules? http://appsforcommunities.challenge.gov/rules 18:03:03 w3c http://www.w3.org/Consortium/Legal/2002/copyright-software-20021231 18:03:03 mit http://www.opensource.org/licenses/mit-license.php 18:03:03 cc by http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/2.0/ 18:03:03 gpl http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl.html 18:03:12 zakim, Jamal is Debby 18:03:12 +Debby; got it 18:03:21 http://appsforcommunities.challenge.gov/rules 18:05:04 JB: Because we are not doing monetary prizes, perhaps we do not need to have this language. WE may need language for judging to avoid conflict-of-interest. 18:05:11 Jan: It is US centric 18:05:43 Debby: If the Gallery is going to have problems from the Challenge, will that be problem? 18:06:17 JB: Not if we make it clear. We would need clear language in the Gallery to make it clear what we are doing. 18:06:49 Debby: Is the major reward of the Challenge being in the Gallery? If so, we need more of a reward so that 18:07:08 [judy: so we'd need language in two places: in the challenge.gov; and in the gallery, to define what gets in] 18:07:56 ... we can have a separate website of recognition -- it would have to be somewhere meaningful 18:08:19 [debby's suggested language: the gallery itself may include items that come from other sources] 18:08:24 JB: The reward of getting things into the gallery: The Gallery itself may include items that come from other sources. 18:08:45 The reward may be "highlighting in the gallery, which may also contain samples that came from other sources" 18:09:14 Debby: Otherwise, so-and-so was a judge and they got into the gallery even though they didn't submit to the Challenge. 18:09:39 Peter: Maybe a difference between getting into the Gallery and getting prominence in the Gallery. 18:10:17 Debby: How about a symbol in the Gallery that shows that THIS one came from the Challenge. 18:10:30 judy: cheers... 18:10:52 Peter: We could have a selection of small icons that awards recognition, like Prime the Pump submissions. 18:12:02 JB: We wnat announcements from OST, FCC, CIO Council and W3C. The W3C Comm person wants to encourage W3C members to be very present in submissions. He wants a logo on W3C submissions in the Gallery. 18:13:14 ... these could be ways to drive up submissions. I can mentally picture a series of thumbnails and some icons that show the source. 18:13:46 Peter: Some submissions may get multiple icon signs. The first "accessible date book" could be another stamp. 18:14:23 JOhn: For the Challenge, we may need the year for multiple times we run the Challenge. 18:15:22 JB: Let's say we get 5 submissions of accessible CAPTCHA, and 4 of them were not accessible, and one went back and fixed them, so "first" could be tricky and contestable. It would become administratively a high cost. 18:16:20 ... I like the ideas, I'm just trying to think of ideas how it could work out. 18:16:39 [collecting interesting issues for discussion for the gallery, but not baked yet for adding in as expectations for the challenge.gov rules yet] 18:16:56 Peter: I just want to get people to send to the Challenge. If it is burdensome, then don't use it, but we need to look for ways to motivate people to submit to the Challenge. 18:18:00 zakim, close this item 18:18:00 agendum 1 closed 18:18:01 I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is 18:18:03 2. Potential additions to rules [from judy] 18:18:17 zakim, take up item 2 18:18:17 agendum 2. "Potential additions to rules" taken up [from judy] 18:18:36 zakim, who is here? 18:18:36 On the phone I see John, Judy, jeanne, Peter, Debby, Jan, Cynthia_Shelly (muted) 18:18:38 On IRC I see Jan, jeanne, korn, RRSAgent, Zakim, judy 18:19:24 Debby: I am happy to simplify the rules. I just sent a request for our Challenge rules. 18:21:48 JB: Ian Jacobs (W3C Comm) suggested that instead of the current description that is more abstract of templates and widgets, to pull off some items straight from the wish list. Image carousel, date picker, accordian expandable navigation, etc. Use specifics instead of definitions. Also add more ways to participate. 18:22:41 JB: Any other things you would like to do? If it passes the W3C Comm Team, then it will make it easier to get it approved by your own groups. 18:22:50 http://www.w3.org/WAI/AU/challenge-gallery/wiki/Grab_and_Go_Gallery? 18:22:54 http://www.w3.org/WAI/AU/challenge-gallery/wiki/Description -- i will be rewriting this based on his feedback. welcome other feedback too, before rewriting. 18:23:22 Debby: What would help me frame it, would be a question: Is making your webiste accessible too overwhelming and too complex? Help us help make it easier for others. 18:23:27 [debby: "help us make it easier"] 18:23:50 zakim, close this item 18:23:50 agendum 2 closed 18:23:51 I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is 18:23:53 3. Updated draft announcement [from judy] 18:24:02 zakim, close this item 18:24:02 I do not know what agendum had been taken up, jeanne 18:24:14 zaim, take up item 3 18:24:21 zakim, close this item 18:24:21 I do not know what agendum had been taken up, jeanne 18:24:32 zakim, take up item 3 18:24:32 agendum 3. "Updated draft announcement" taken up [from judy] 18:24:36 zakim, close this item 18:24:36 agendum 3 closed 18:24:37 I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is 18:24:39 4. Updated sample templates [from judy] 18:24:45 zakim, take up item 4 18:24:45 agendum 4. "Updated sample templates" taken up [from judy] 18:25:33 http://jfciii.com/templates/ 18:25:34 -Peter 18:26:44 John: I was going to have a main page that lists all the asp, jsp, html pages, and list some style pages. 18:26:56 The only one that is finished is the right navigation HTML page. 18:27:44 judy suggests sending people straight to a template: http://jfciii.com/templates/html/right/default.html 18:27:44 JB: It may be better for Prime the Pump to send people right to the template. 18:28:58 JB: I like the term "classic template" instead of static template. 18:31:02 zakim, close this item 18:31:02 agendum 4 closed 18:31:03 I see 1 item remaining on the agenda: 18:31:05 5. Specifics on longer term gallery [from judy] 18:31:12 zakim, unmute Cynthia 18:31:12 Cynthia_Shelly should no longer be muted 18:33:10 Cynthia: what about the idea of asking users to tag when items are no longer relevant to make it easier to maintain. 18:33:30 JB: Cynthia and I will work on that part. 18:33:56 -Debby 18:34:13 heard my name in the static 18:34:18 zakim, close this item 18:34:18 I do not know what agendum had been taken up, jeanne 18:34:19 bye 18:34:26 zakim, take up next item 18:34:26 agendum 5. "Specifics on longer term gallery" taken up [from judy] 18:34:30 zakim, mute cynthia 18:34:30 Cynthia_Shelly should now be muted 18:34:41 no problem 18:34:41 zakim, unmute cynthia 18:34:41 Cynthia_Shelly should no longer be muted 18:34:47 zakim, close this item 18:34:47 agendum 5 closed 18:34:48 I see nothing remaining on the agenda 18:34:49 -John 18:34:51 -Cynthia_Shelly 18:34:51 -Judy 18:34:53 -Jan 18:35:05 there will be a meeting next week. Regrets from Jan, it is a holiday. 18:35:09 -jeanne 18:35:10 WAI_(GALLERY)1:30PM has ended 18:35:12 Attendees were +1.202.418.aaaa, +1.703.602.aabb, Judy, +1.617.324.aacc, jeanne, +1.202.358.aadd, Peter, Jan, John, Debby, Cynthia_Shelly 18:35:25 rrsagent, make minutes 18:35:25 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/04/15-gallery-minutes.html jeanne 18:35:30 rrsagent, make logs public 18:35:36 rrsagent, make minutes 18:35:36 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/04/15-gallery-minutes.html jeanne 18:41:45 korn has left #gallery 18:46:47 rrsagent, bye 18:46:47 I see no action items