IRC log of lld on 2011-04-14

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:53:27 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #lld
13:53:27 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/04/14-lld-irc
13:53:35 [antoine]
rrsagent, bookmark
13:53:35 [RRSAgent]
See http://www.w3.org/2011/04/14-lld-irc#T13-53-35
13:53:39 [ww]
zakim, i am here
13:53:39 [Zakim]
sorry, ww, I do not see a party named 'here'
13:53:53 [antoine]
zakim, this will be lld
13:53:53 [Zakim]
ok, antoine; I see INC_LLDXG()10:00AM scheduled to start in 7 minutes
13:54:32 [Zakim]
INC_LLDXG()10:00AM has now started
13:54:39 [Zakim]
+??P17
13:54:47 [antoine]
zakim, ??P17 is me
13:54:47 [Zakim]
+antoine; got it
13:55:07 [antoine]
Meeting: LLD XG
13:55:10 [TomB]
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13:55:12 [antoine]
Chair: Tom
13:55:39 [AlexanderH]
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13:55:40 [antoine]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2011Apr/0025.html
13:55:47 [pmurray]
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13:56:10 [antoine]
Previous: 2011-04-07 http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/04/07-lld-minutes.html
13:56:36 [Zakim]
+ +1.763.463.aaaa
13:56:38 [GordonD]
GordonD has joined #lld
13:56:43 [jodi]
zakim, aaaa is Jodi
13:56:43 [Zakim]
+Jodi; got it
13:56:49 [antoine]
Regrets: Kai, Daniel, Felix
13:56:56 [jodi]
zakim, aaaa is me
13:56:56 [Zakim]
sorry, jodi, I do not recognize a party named 'aaaa'
13:56:56 [antoine]
rrsagent, please make record public
13:57:10 [Jodi]
zakim, mute me
13:57:10 [Zakim]
Jodi should now be muted
13:57:15 [antoine]
rrsagent, please draft minutes
13:57:15 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/04/14-lld-minutes.html antoine
13:57:41 [Jodi]
zakim, unmute me
13:57:41 [Zakim]
Jodi should no longer be muted
13:57:49 [emma]
emma has joined #lld
13:58:04 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
13:58:05 [Zakim]
+??P10
13:58:07 [antoine]
Scribe: Jodi
13:58:28 [antoine]
zakim, AlexanderH is IPcaller
13:58:28 [Zakim]
sorry, antoine, I do not recognize a party named 'AlexanderH'
13:58:29 [Asaf]
Zakim, ??P10 is me
13:58:29 [Zakim]
+Asaf; got it
13:58:36 [Jodi]
zakim, IPcaller is AlexanderH
13:58:36 [Zakim]
+AlexanderH; got it
13:58:40 [Zakim]
+??P25
13:58:45 [Zakim]
+??P24
13:58:46 [Zakim]
+ +33.1.44.78.aabb
13:58:47 [antoine]
Scribenick: Jodi
13:58:54 [emma]
zakim, aabb is me
13:58:54 [Zakim]
+emma; got it
13:59:00 [TomB]
zakim, ??P24 is probably TomB
13:59:00 [Zakim]
+TomB?; got it
13:59:04 [Jodi]
zakim, who is making noise?
13:59:07 [kefo]
kefo has joined #lld
13:59:12 [Zakim]
+[LC]
13:59:12 [emma]
zakim, please mute me
13:59:12 [antoine]
zakim, ??P25 is GordonD
13:59:13 [kefo]
zakim, LC is me
13:59:13 [Zakim]
emma should now be muted
13:59:13 [Zakim]
+GordonD; got it
13:59:14 [Zakim]
+kefo; got it
13:59:15 [Zakim]
Jodi, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: antoine (70%), Jodi (5%), TomB? (5%), ??P25 (70%), emma (23%)
13:59:33 [kefo]
zakim, mute me please
13:59:33 [Zakim]
kefo should now be muted
13:59:35 [antoine]
zakim, who is here?
13:59:35 [Zakim]
On the phone I see antoine, Jodi, AlexanderH, Asaf, GordonD (muted), TomB?, emma (muted), kefo (muted)
13:59:38 [Zakim]
+ +1.678.235.aacc
13:59:41 [rayd]
rayd has joined #lld
13:59:42 [pmurray]
zakim, aacc is me
13:59:42 [Zakim]
+pmurray; got it
14:00:02 [marcia]
marcia has joined #lld
14:00:10 [antoine]
zakim, TomB? is really TomB
14:00:10 [Zakim]
+TomB; got it
14:00:37 [antoine]
zakim, please draft minutes
14:00:37 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'please draft minutes', antoine
14:00:38 [CaptSolo]
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14:00:47 [antoine]
rrsagent, please draft minutes
14:00:47 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/04/14-lld-minutes.html antoine
14:00:48 [Zakim]
+ +1.330.289.aadd
14:00:56 [Zakim]
+ +1.614.764.aaee
14:01:00 [jeff_]
zakim, aaee is me
14:01:01 [Zakim]
+jeff_; got it
14:01:09 [TomB]
zakim, aadd is Marcia
14:01:10 [Zakim]
+Marcia; got it
14:01:23 [jeff_]
zakim, mute me
14:01:23 [Zakim]
jeff_ should now be muted
14:01:25 [TomB]
zakim, who is on the call?
14:01:25 [Zakim]
On the phone I see antoine, Jodi, AlexanderH, Asaf, GordonD (muted), TomB, emma (muted), kefo (muted), pmurray (muted), Marcia, jeff_ (muted)
14:01:27 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
14:01:32 [Zakim]
+ +1.423.463.aaff
14:01:37 [Zakim]
-Asaf
14:01:47 [Jodi]
zakim, IPcaller is Uldis
14:01:47 [Zakim]
+Uldis; got it
14:01:53 [CaptSolo]
hi
14:01:59 [marcia]
marcia has joined #lld
14:02:04 [Zakim]
+??P42
14:02:08 [TomB]
zakim, who is on the call?
14:02:08 [Zakim]
On the phone I see antoine, Jodi, AlexanderH, GordonD (muted), TomB, emma (muted), kefo (muted), pmurray (muted), Marcia, jeff_ (muted), Uldis, +1.423.463.aaff, ??P42
14:02:16 [Asaf]
Zakim, ??P42 is me
14:02:16 [Zakim]
+Asaf; got it
14:02:24 [rsinger]
Zakim, aaff is me
14:02:24 [Zakim]
+rsinger; got it
14:02:29 [rsinger]
it was me
14:02:30 [marcia]
zakim, mute me
14:02:30 [Zakim]
Marcia should now be muted
14:02:42 [kefo]
oh no. Sorry, my regrets - I have a conflicting meeting.
14:02:46 [Zakim]
-kefo
14:03:15 [kefo]
kefo has joined #lld
14:03:31 [Jodi]
zakim, mute me please
14:03:33 [Zakim]
Jodi should now be muted
14:03:33 [Zakim]
+[LC]
14:03:39 [TomB]
can you all hear me?
14:03:39 [Jodi]
I can hear you ok, TomB
14:03:40 [edsu]
Zakim, LC is edsu
14:03:40 [Zakim]
+edsu; got it
14:03:45 [Uldis]
audio is breaking up, can't hear TomB either
14:03:48 [Zakim]
+[LC]
14:03:58 [Zakim]
-TomB
14:04:22 [antoine]
zakim, LC is rayd
14:04:27 [Zakim]
+rayd; got it
14:05:41 [edsu]
i have to leave the telecon early, unfortunately
14:05:56 [edsu]
but thought i would listen while i can
14:06:34 [TomB]
having trouble dialing in - waiting for operator assistance. Can Antoine or Emmanuelle please start with the admin details?
14:06:39 [Jodi]
Topic: ADMIN
14:06:54 [digikim]
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14:07:00 [digikim]
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14:07:11 [Jodi]
RESOLVED: To accept last week's minutes http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/04/07-lld-minutes.html
14:07:18 [digikim_]
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14:07:21 [digikim_]
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14:07:43 [digikim]
digikim has joined #lld
14:07:45 [digikim]
hmm
14:07:51 [digikim]
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14:08:29 [Jodi]
Antoine: Next week, Harry Halpin from W3C will talk about the possibility of a W3C Community Group forming after this group finishes.
14:08:41 [Zakim]
+ +1.202.248.aagg
14:09:01 [ww]
harry++
14:09:07 [Jodi]
... W3C Community Group is more informal. He (or someone from W3C) will talk in an upcoming telcon about this.
14:09:16 [TomB]
zakim, aagg is TomB
14:09:16 [Zakim]
+TomB; got it
14:09:23 [Jodi]
... This would be an interesting way to continue the work that has been done in this group.
14:09:47 [Jodi]
TomB: Dialing in with a phone now.
14:09:55 [Jodi]
... Next item is the Asia-Pacific teleconference.
14:10:10 [Jodi]
... Dixon and Hideoki have expressed interest. There is a doodle poll
14:10:37 [antoine]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2011Apr/0026.html
14:10:41 [edsu]
q+
14:10:51 [TomB]
ack edsu
14:11:03 [Jodi]
Probably 27th or 28th. Time expected 9 PM on U.S. West Coast, midnight U.S. East Coast, early AM for European time.
14:11:24 [Jodi]
Ed: Would it be ok for Dan Chudnov to sit in on that call? (Japan context)
14:11:42 [Jodi]
Doodle poll is at http://www.doodle.com/e86qabb6kegceagr , more context in the listserv post Antoine linked
14:11:46 [Jodi]
TomB: sure
14:11:51 [michaelp]
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14:12:18 [Jodi]
TomB: Significant restructuring of draft report. Removed text, it's now a list of sections:
14:12:29 [Jodi]
http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/DraftReport
14:12:42 [Jodi]
... We also have some separate deliverables:
14:12:50 [Jodi]
... Use Case Report (Daniel is working on this)
14:13:03 [Jodi]
... LLD Vocabularies and Datasets (we'll discuss this later on the call)
14:13:30 [Zakim]
-emma
14:13:30 [Jodi]
... There was an action on Kim to update the transcluded version of the report.
14:13:57 [rsinger]
week after
14:14:00 [rsinger]
i think
14:14:05 [Jodi]
...Benefits of LD for libraries will be discussed in an upcoming call, in 2 weeks
14:14:29 [Jodi]
ACTION: Digikim to update the transcluded version of the report by Wed Apr 13 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/04/07-lld-minutes.html#action06] -- continues
14:14:29 [Zakim]
+emma
14:14:51 [edsu]
and antoine :)
14:15:01 [antoine]
:-)
14:15:06 [emma]
zakim, please mute me
14:15:06 [Zakim]
emma should now be muted
14:15:28 [edsu]
rsinger: thank you :)
14:15:57 [Jodi]
Ross: Decided against turning them into stories... it would be redundant.
14:15:59 [digikim_]
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14:16:01 [digikim_]
hmm
14:16:06 [Jodi]
Topic: BENEFITS OF LINKED DATA FOR LIBRARIES
14:16:11 [Jodi]
Topic: PROBLEMS AND LIMITATIONS
14:16:22 [Jodi]
ACTION: Cluster owners to check the bullet-point list in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Draft_Benefits reflects their understanding and covers relevant points [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/03/31-lld-minutes.html#action04] -- continues
14:16:28 [Jodi]
ACTION: edsu, emma, rsinger to create narrative text and add to bullet-points [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/03/31-lld-minutes.html#action05] -- continues
14:16:37 [digikim]
digikim has joined #lld
14:16:39 [digikim]
digikim has left #lld
14:16:54 [digikim_]
I have some problem in contactin irc.w3.org
14:17:00 [Jodi]
TomB: Two wiki pages... which one?
14:17:07 [Jodi]
oops!
14:17:16 [digikim__]
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14:17:17 [digikim__]
digikim__ has left #lld
14:17:28 [digikim__]
digikim__ has joined #lld
14:17:28 [Jodi]
Topic: RECOMMENDATIONS AND REQUIREMENTS
14:17:41 [Jodi]
TomB: Being drafted as the second half of the draft issues page
14:18:06 [Jodi]
ACTION: Digikim to update the transcluded version of the report by Wed Apr 13 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/04/07-lld-minutes.html#action06]
14:18:06 [Jodi]
-- continues
14:18:13 [pmurray]
http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Draft_issues_page
14:18:25 [Jodi]
antoine -- this is still wrong. what do I need to do?
14:18:59 [antoine]
rrsagent, please draft minutes
14:18:59 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/04/14-lld-minutes.html antoine
14:19:02 [Jodi]
TomB: 'Requirements' - what needs to be achieved in general, to be extracted from the issues. But when I think of requirements, I assume that there's a specific application that is being designed.
14:19:34 [Jodi]
:)
14:19:39 [Jodi]
thanks for checking, antoine!
14:19:51 [Jodi]
... LLD is such a large thing that I have a little bit of difficulty calling this requirements. Does anyone else have a problem with calling this 'requirements'?
14:20:14 [Jodi]
... The content is pretty clear, but do we want to call the section 'requirements'?
14:20:51 [Jodi]
I'm not sure it's a nonissue. But what else can it be called?
14:21:00 [Asaf]
I do see your point
14:21:06 [emma]
issues ?
14:21:25 [GordonD]
What needs to be done +1
14:21:25 [Jodi]
TomB: "What needs to be done?" is another possibility
14:21:49 [Jodi]
agree w/Gordon: +1 to What needs to be done -- but offline discussion will help
14:21:56 [emma]
+1, at least that's clear !
14:21:57 [Jodi]
TomB: taking this offline for further discussion
14:22:04 [Jodi]
Topic: AVAILABLE DATA (VOCABULARIES, DATASETS)
14:22:15 [Jodi]
TomB: This is the section that we want to spend the most time on today.
14:22:21 [antoine]
someone wants to jump in?
14:22:31 [Jodi]
TomB: Antoine, Jeff, Marcia, William, would anyone like to jump in and introduce this?
14:22:32 [marcia]
antoine
14:22:38 [Jodi]
(deafening silence...)
14:23:02 [Jodi]
Antoine: email to the list yesterday morning: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2011Apr/0015.html
14:23:12 [Jodi]
... status of the "LLD vocabularies and datasets" deliverable
14:23:22 [digikim__]
digikim__ has joined #lld
14:23:25 [Zakim]
+??P64
14:23:32 [digikim_]
Zakim, ??P64 is digikim
14:23:32 [Zakim]
+digikim; got it
14:23:36 [Jodi]
... focused on the deliverable first, before focusing on the section of the report
14:23:40 [Jodi]
thanks digikim :)
14:23:54 [Jodi]
Antoine: This draft, for the moment, contains 2 main sections
14:24:05 [Jodi]
... first - metadata element sets
14:24:09 [Jodi]
http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Vocabulary_and_Dataset
14:24:39 [Jodi]
... every metadata element set mentioned in the use cases is given a short description -- 1 line description, xmlns name space, link to the cases which mention it
14:24:59 [digikim_]
Jodi: about my task: based on Thomas Baker email on the list, the DraftReport wikipage is outdated, so I did not proceed at the moment with the transclusion task
14:25:01 [Jodi]
... Dublin Core, VOID, SKOS, ...
14:25:19 [TomB]
q+ to point out that I put a placeholder in the document at http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Vocabulary_and_Dataset#Definitions_and_scope for defining "element set", "value vocabulary", etc
14:25:23 [Jodi]
... Many of these element sets are connected together. Some reuse others; some specialize others.
14:25:37 [Jodi]
... This is a crucial element of having these elements published as LD.
14:25:51 [Jodi]
... , for the data consumer or for the people who are managing these elements sets
14:26:09 [Jodi]
... The graph is a draft -- just a drawing to show what we are aiming at.
14:26:21 [antoine]
http://labs.mondeca.com/dataset/lov/
14:26:32 [Jodi]
... We will follow the conventions set by Bernard and his colleagues (see link)
14:26:33 [GordonD]
+1 Mondeca stuff
14:26:53 [Zakim]
-edsu
14:26:57 [TomB]
@digikim - it makes sense to hold off on transclusion for now
14:27:06 [Jodi]
... We also have some Metadata Element Sets that are not yet LD, some not even being worked on at the moment.
14:27:08 [digikim_]
TomB: yes
14:27:17 [Jodi]
... Should we include those in the same way as the LD elements? Feedback welcome!
14:27:32 [Jodi]
... We also have some questions on MODS and PREMIS -- what is the status of these for the moment? Does anyone know?
14:28:00 [Jodi]
Maybe the metadata element sets that aren't yet LD should go into requirements/what needs to be done?
14:28:25 [TomB]
ack TomB
14:28:25 [Zakim]
TomB, you wanted to point out that I put a placeholder in the document at http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Vocabulary_and_Dataset#Definitions_and_scope for defining
14:28:28 [Zakim]
... "element set", "value vocabulary", etc
14:28:30 [digikim__]
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14:28:32 [Jodi]
TomB: I took the liberty of putting in a placeholder at the beginning of the document, for definitions and scope
14:29:10 [Jodi]
... someplace in this deliverable we need to refer to the metadata element set, value vocabulary, and dataset.
14:29:23 [Jodi]
... Those definitions are already on the wiki: http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/wiki/Library_terminology_informally_explained#Definitions
14:29:57 [Jodi]
Antoine: Makes sense to have this at the start, had this in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Vocabulary_and_Dataset#Relevant_LLD_Metadata_element_sets_-_anno_2011
14:30:08 [emma]
q+ to PREMIS
14:30:38 [Jodi]
Antoine: The second section is on value vocabularies and datasets: http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Vocabulary_and_Dataset#Value_vocabularies_and_Datasets
14:30:45 [emma]
q-
14:31:12 [Jodi]
... both of them are grouped here because we want to position that section together with the CKAN LLD group
14:31:39 [Jodi]
... The CKAN group is dealing with both value vocabularies and datasets. This may not be practical for the deliverable, but it's what we started with.
14:31:58 [Jodi]
... A bit of a presentation with the LLD group
14:31:59 [Jodi]
(?)
14:32:24 [Jodi]
... William has started to visualize the content of the CKAN LLD group as a cloud, to make it analogous to the LOD cloud.
14:32:38 [Jodi]
... but focused on the library domain.
14:33:08 [ww]
at the moment, i am re-adding in the void part so that we can easily work with inter-dataset links and such
14:33:09 [Jodi]
... Your input would be welcome here. The screenshot here is William's idea, and he's continuing to work on it: http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/File:LLD-Cloud-Draft.png
14:33:21 [TomB]
q+ to point out that the text in http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/wiki/Library_terminology_informally_explained#Definitions is more detailed than text already in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Vocabulary_and_Dataset
14:33:39 [Jodi]
... One idea is to make links between the datasets explicit. Please share other ideas!
14:33:48 [antoine]
http://semantic.ckan.net/viz/group.html?group=http://ckan.net/group/lld
14:34:06 [TomB]
ack TomB
14:34:06 [Zakim]
TomB, you wanted to point out that the text in http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/wiki/Library_terminology_informally_explained#Definitions is more detailed than text already in
14:34:10 [Zakim]
... http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Vocabulary_and_Dataset
14:34:23 [marcia]
http://ckan.net/group/bibliographic
14:34:44 [Jodi]
Antoine: This should give a nice overview of what is published already, so then we want to dive into each dataset and value vocabulary, similar to what was done in the first section for the metadata element sets
14:35:16 [Jodi]
... We were lucky to be able to reuse Marcia's webpage which already describes many of these value vocabularies.
14:35:53 [Jodi]
... More work left for the second section, we'll populate this in the next couple of weeks.
14:36:22 [Jodi]
... We have a bit of hesitation: Should we list everything that's in the LLD cloud (even though it might not be mentioned in the use cases)? Should we list everything that's mentioned in the use cases, even if it's not in LLD yet?
14:36:40 [Jodi]
... So far, we want to make explicit what's available already AND what's not yet available. Opinions/feedback welcome!
14:37:22 [Jodi]
... Finally for the datasets we'll give descriptions, but reuse is more limited, so we'll focus less on describing them.
14:37:32 [Jodi]
... For a newcomer, reuse is more key.
14:38:03 [Jodi]
... For example instance data about books may not be as interesting.
14:38:13 [Jodi]
... Opinions welcome!
14:38:49 [Jodi]
TomB: For the final step, will this be published in HTML or a wiki document?
14:39:09 [Jodi]
Antoine: An HTML document would be ideal, reusing W3C Group Note template
14:39:25 [Jodi]
TomB: Is there a nice routine for converting from wiki to HTML template?
14:39:35 [Jodi]
Antoine: Not sure -- W3C doesn't have wiki templates.
14:39:55 [Jodi]
TomB: Practical issue is that a lot of the links are wiki links which need to be converted into hyperlinks, etc
14:40:17 [Jodi]
there should be general converters from MediaWiki to HTML which could give a start... then hand-finish
14:40:56 [Jodi]
Antoine: We'll need to check these to figure out where things go (final report vs. separate deliverable) as well.
14:41:18 [Jodi]
Antoine: move back to getting feedback?
14:41:38 [Jodi]
... First one is about the graphs. We think we can do some interesting stuff. Suggestions?
14:42:10 [TomB]
q+
14:42:13 [Jodi]
... Tom and Jodi already started a discussion about the possible links and their meaning. There are several approaches to make links and represent them.
14:42:25 [Jodi]
Second: description grain. Are these descriptions sufficient?
14:42:54 [marcia]
http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/File:LLD-MetadataElementSetCloudMock.png
14:43:08 [Jodi]
TomB: Somebody on last week's call--William?--talked about using visigraph(?). Is that related to this cloudgraph?
14:43:35 [Jodi]
Antoine: William and his colleagues are using this JavaScript library.
14:43:42 [Jodi]
TomB: So there are tools for doing this.
14:44:03 [TomB]
ack TomB
14:44:05 [Jodi]
Antoine: Given William's contribution for the CKAN LLD cloud, the technical aspects should be straightforward.
14:44:12 [jneubert]
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14:44:14 [ww]
using protovis
14:44:29 [Jodi]
Antoine: Two other important questions:
14:44:41 [Jodi]
... Other things you think are crucial that should be covered?
14:44:49 [Jodi]
... Fourth: categorization.
14:44:52 [Uldis]
tools for converting MediaWiki pages into other formats: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Alternative_parsers
14:45:01 [ww]
what i want to do, and should shortly have enough information to, is (1) make links explicit within that big circle, (2) have non-lld datasets that are linked to be outside the big circle, and linked... if that meks sense
14:45:29 [Jodi]
... Reorganizing by topic/coverage. We would like group feedback on this.
14:45:31 [Zakim]
+ +49.173.609.aahh
14:45:32 [ww]
it'll take a bit of protovis fiddling obviously
14:45:33 [TomB]
q+ to suggest that we ask the public-lld list if the coverage is complete
14:45:46 [jneubert]
zakim, aahh is jneubert
14:45:47 [Zakim]
+jneubert; got it
14:46:01 [marcia]
*Antoine: thanks!
14:46:13 [Jodi]
TomB: One way of getting input from the community would be to post to public-lld to ask about the coverage. e.g. Are there reference vocabularies that are missing? To get more people to look at it.
14:46:26 [jeff_]
Thanks Antoine
14:46:30 [Jodi]
TomB: Any more discussion on the available data section?
14:46:32 [marcia]
*ww: Do you mean the open source software at: http://vis.stanford.edu/protovis/? thanks.
14:46:52 [Jodi]
... Is there already a wiki page for the section that will go into the final report? If not, should we create one?
14:47:12 [antoine]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2011Apr/0015.html
14:47:14 [Jodi]
... Looks like it will have a few pointers, a few representative datasets, and a summary of the longer deliverable. Is that right?
14:47:24 [TomB]
ww, thank you for the explanation!
14:47:38 [Jodi]
Antoine: No wiki page yet. The listserv message talks about this a little
14:48:06 [Jodi]
... Identifying gaps will be important, link with issues or recommendations to make sure that the gaps are listed there, or make separate section of issues/recommendations
14:48:17 [Jodi]
... But this depends on other sections and on the separate deliverable
14:48:29 [ww]
marcia: yes
14:48:38 [Jodi]
... It will be way easier to create this once we have a visualization of the datasets and how they are related, and a categorization of the value vocabularies
14:48:44 [ww]
same as what the mondeca folks and edsu use for these sorts of things
14:48:51 [marcia]
ww: thank you!
14:48:54 [TomB]
+1 having a nice graph will really help!
14:49:10 [Jodi]
... For FRBR, for instance, there are 4-5 ontologies available
14:49:13 [Jodi]
< -- so not just gaps but *choices* need to be taken into account>
14:49:28 [Jodi]
TomB: So you envision directly plugging some of these issues into the other issues document?
14:49:52 [Jodi]
... These documents are editable by everyone in the group, so that would be one way to do that
14:50:10 [Jodi]
... Thank you, Antoine, I think having a graphic will really help in presenting that material.
14:50:12 [jeff_]
zakim, unmute me
14:50:12 [Zakim]
jeff_ should no longer be muted
14:50:21 [Jodi]
Topic: RELEVANT TECHNOLOGIES
14:50:54 [marcia_]
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14:51:17 [Jodi]
TomB: What is the idea of the "relevant technologies" section? To have something high-level, with simple typology of tools, and pointers to maintained lists. And of course a disclaimer that "this is not exhaustive"--it will go out of date. Is that right?
14:51:26 [Jodi]
... Do you envision this as a separate deliverable?
14:51:33 [Jodi]
Jeff: I can envision a paragraph that does this.
14:51:43 [Jodi]
... I can draft something about this this afternoon.
14:52:07 [Jodi]
... Not yet clear whether we point to maintained lists or create a separate section
14:52:22 [Jodi]
TomB: I would envision doing that as a wiki page, even if it's a paragraph or two
14:52:32 [Jodi]
... Then we can put it in as a section of the report outline
14:52:39 [Jodi]
Jeff: ok, "RelevantTechnology"
14:52:59 [Jodi]
ACTION: Jeff to create a wiki page on "RelevantTechnology" and link it to the report outline
14:53:07 [Jodi]
see also http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/wiki/Category:Tool
14:53:22 [Jodi]
Topic: NOTE ON ARCHITECTURE AND CACHING
14:53:26 [jeff_]
zakim, mute me
14:53:26 [Zakim]
jeff_ should now be muted
14:53:42 [jeff_]
zakim, unmute me
14:53:42 [Zakim]
jeff_ should no longer be muted
14:53:56 [Jodi]
TomB: There is an action on Alex, Jeff, Martin, MichaelP to elaborate on a general purpose IT architecture. What is the status of that?
14:54:27 [Jodi]
Jeff: This was in the back of my mind when I was creating the tools page.
14:54:46 [Jodi]
... The 'relevant technologies' is sort of a disclaimer that there *is* no coherent architecture, other than the Web standards.
14:55:00 [Jodi]
TomB: Could the points you want to make here be folded into the Relevant Technologies section?
14:55:03 [Jodi]
Jeff: exactly!
14:55:09 [Jodi]
ACTION: Alex, Jeff, Martin, MichaelP elaborate on general purpose IT architecture for dealing with linked data with caching feature (short sketch for final report) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/24-lld-minutes.html#action04] -- continues
14:55:17 [jeff_]
zakim, mute me
14:55:17 [Zakim]
jeff_ should now be muted
14:55:21 [Jodi]
TomB: This will be an aspect of RelevantTechnologies
14:55:26 [antoine]
rrsagent, please draft minutes
14:55:26 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/04/14-lld-minutes.html antoine
14:55:26 [Jodi]
Topic: NOTE ON POTENTIAL LLD WEB SERVICES
14:55:48 [Jodi]
TomB: Kevin and Joachim have written a note on this: http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Web_services_on_LLD
14:56:03 [Jodi]
:(
14:56:22 [Jodi]
Joachim: Had a dentist operation.
14:56:32 [Jodi]
Joachim: Let's do this next time.
14:56:52 [Jodi]
(don't see this action in the minutes, but it continues)
14:56:59 [Jodi]
Topic: USE CASES
14:57:09 [Jodi]
TomB: Daniel is working on the Use Case report, it's coming along nicely
14:57:19 [Jodi]
ah, thanks antoine! :)
14:57:31 [Jodi]
Topic: HOUSECLEANING
14:57:46 [Jodi]
TomB: Moved around the structure of the draft report
14:57:51 [Jodi]
... We're in wind-up stage
14:58:06 [Jodi]
... Running out of time for outreach
14:58:26 [Jodi]
... Gathered up the raw material, moved them to the end of the report, to see more clearly what parts were actively being worked on
14:59:03 [Jodi]
... Are there any links in here which are being actively worked on? (from the Community building, outreach, related activities and resources section)
14:59:15 [Jodi]
... Or can we park these links?
14:59:50 [Jodi]
... I created a section of the wiki "Intermediate Deliverables" and listed a lot of these documents there so that they don't get lost, but so that they're not actually on our active agenda.
15:00:00 [digikim]
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15:00:03 [antoine]
Seems alright...
15:00:08 [jeff_]
jeff_ has left #lld
15:00:09 [digikim]
hmm
15:00:21 [Asaf]
Do we have any "review readers" or "advance copies" thing going on?
15:00:22 [Jodi]
need to look at these, but seems reasonable from a first glance
15:00:26 [digikim]
digikim has left #lld
15:00:32 [Jodi]
Topic: AOB
15:01:05 [Jodi]
TomB: We don't have review readers now, but next week or the week after we will start assigning reviewers to various sections. It feels to me like the individual groups still need a little more time to polish their sections.
15:01:07 [Asaf]
sure, that sounds good.
15:01:19 [Jodi]
... I think it would be a little premature to start sending them out for review.
15:01:41 [digikim_]
thanks
15:01:41 [Jodi]
... I take silence as rough consent that I haven't made any blunders in putting these links at the end of the agenda. Look forward to talking to you all next week!
15:01:44 [Zakim]
-AlexanderH
15:01:48 [Jodi]
zakim, who is here?
15:01:49 [Uldis]
Uldis has left #lld
15:01:50 [Zakim]
-pmurray
15:01:52 [Jodi]
rrsagent, please draft minutes
15:01:52 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/04/14-lld-minutes.html Jodi
15:01:53 [TomB]
Thanks for scribing Jodi!!
15:01:54 [Zakim]
On the phone I see antoine, Jodi (muted), GordonD, Marcia (muted), jeff_ (muted), Uldis, rsinger, Asaf, rayd, TomB, emma (muted), digikim, jneubert
15:01:56 [pmurray]
Bye!
15:01:57 [Zakim]
-GordonD
15:01:57 [Jodi]
zakim, unmute me
15:01:59 [Zakim]
-Uldis
15:02:00 [antoine]
zakim please list attendees
15:02:03 [Zakim]
-digikim
15:02:05 [Zakim]
-Marcia
15:02:06 [antoine]
zakim, please list attendees
15:02:09 [Zakim]
-rsinger
15:02:10 [pmurray]
pmurray has left #lld
15:02:11 [Zakim]
-Asaf
15:02:13 [Zakim]
Jodi should no longer be muted
15:02:15 [Zakim]
-jneubert
15:02:21 [Zakim]
-rayd
15:02:23 [Zakim]
As of this point the attendees have been antoine, +1.763.463.aaaa, Jodi, Asaf, AlexanderH, +33.1.44.78.aabb, emma, GordonD, kefo, +1.678.235.aacc, pmurray, TomB, +1.330.289.aadd,
15:02:26 [Zakim]
... +1.614.764.aaee, jeff_, Marcia, +1.423.463.aaff, Uldis, rsinger, edsu, rayd, +1.202.248.aagg, digikim, +49.173.609.aahh, jneubert
15:02:44 [TomB]
rrsagent, please draft minutes
15:02:44 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/04/14-lld-minutes.html TomB
15:03:00 [Jodi]
rrsagent, please draft minutes
15:03:00 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/04/14-lld-minutes.html Jodi
15:03:26 [digikim_]
sorry for spamming the channel. I have some problems with the IRC connection (=nothing is showed when connecting to the channel from my ordinary client)
15:03:27 [TomB]
zakim, who is on the call?
15:03:36 [Zakim]
-Jodi
15:03:42 [Zakim]
-antoine
15:03:44 [Zakim]
On the phone I see jeff_ (muted), TomB, emma (muted)
15:03:46 [Zakim]
-emma
15:03:52 [michaelp]
michaelp has left #lld
15:03:56 [Zakim]
-TomB
15:16:53 [Jodi]
Jodi has left #LLD
15:35:02 [Zakim]
disconnecting the lone participant, jeff_, in INC_LLDXG()10:00AM
15:35:04 [Zakim]
INC_LLDXG()10:00AM has ended
15:35:05 [Zakim]
Attendees were antoine, +1.763.463.aaaa, Jodi, Asaf, AlexanderH, +33.1.44.78.aabb, emma, GordonD, kefo, +1.678.235.aacc, pmurray, TomB, +1.330.289.aadd, +1.614.764.aaee, jeff_,
15:35:08 [Zakim]
... Marcia, +1.423.463.aaff, Uldis, rsinger, edsu, rayd, +1.202.248.aagg, digikim, +49.173.609.aahh, jneubert
17:17:53 [Zakim]
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