21:28:00 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #media
21:28:00 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/04/11-media-irc
21:28:19 <janina> zakim, this will be WAI_PFWG(A11Y)
21:28:19 <Zakim> I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, janina
21:28:56 <janina> zakim, this will be WAI_PFWG(A11Y)
21:28:56 <Zakim> I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, janina
21:29:06 <janina> janina has left #media
21:30:17 <janina> janina has joined #media
21:30:42 <janina> zakim, code?
21:30:42 <Zakim> the conference code is hidden, janina
21:31:21 <janina> People, I'm trying to get some W3C help about our telecon channel
21:31:50 <frankolivier> frankolivier has joined #media
21:32:11 <janina> All, I'm trying to get our telecon channel unblocked
21:33:38 <janina> zakim, room for 10
21:33:38 <Zakim> I don't understand 'room for 10', janina
21:33:54 <eric_carlson> eric_carlson has joined #media
21:34:15 <janina> zakim, room for ten?
21:34:15 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, janina.
21:34:22 <janina> zakim, room for 10
21:34:22 <Zakim> I don't understand 'room for 10', janina
21:34:29 <janina> zakim, room for 10?
21:34:31 <Zakim> ok, janina; conference Team_(media)21:34Z scheduled with code 2119 (A11Y) for 60 minutes until 2234Z
21:34:37 <eric_carlson> what is the pass code for the Zakim bridge?
21:34:43 <Zakim> Team_(media)21:34Z has now started
21:34:50 <Zakim> +??P1
21:35:14 <Zakim> +Eric_Carlson
21:35:20 <eric_carlson> never mind, I am in now
21:35:50 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
21:36:12 <Zakim> +silvia
21:37:05 <Zakim> + +44.154.558.aaaa
21:37:44 <silvia> silvia has joined #media
21:37:47 <Zakim> +mark
21:38:05 <Zakim> +??P5
21:38:19 <janina> I'm working on getting Zakim to let me in
21:39:48 <silvia> zakim, Sean is aaaa
21:39:48 <Zakim> sorry, silvia, I do not recognize a party named 'Sean'
21:40:01 <silvia> zakim, aaaa is Sean
21:40:01 <Zakim> +Sean; got it
21:40:10 <mark> mark has joined #media
21:40:45 <janina> zakim, ??P1 is Bob
21:40:45 <Zakim> +Bob; got it
21:40:46 <frankolivier> zakim, frankolivier is [Microsoft]
21:40:46 <Zakim> sorry, frankolivier, I do not recognize a party named 'frankolivier'
21:40:58 <janina> zakim, ??P5 is janina
21:40:58 <Zakim> +janina; got it
21:41:07 <janina> zakim, who's here?
21:41:07 <Zakim> On the phone I see Bob, Eric_Carlson, [Microsoft], silvia, Sean, mark, janina
21:41:09 <Zakim> On IRC I see mark, silvia, eric_carlson, frankolivier, janina, RRSAgent, Sean, oedipus_away, Zakim
21:41:37 <janina> zakim, [Microsoft] is Frank
21:41:37 <Zakim> +Frank; got it
21:43:04 <silvia> TOPIC: Issue-152 Multitrack http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Media_Multitrack_Change_Proposals_Summary
21:43:33 <janina> scribe: janina
21:43:50 <janina> rrsagent, make log public
21:43:56 <janina> rrsagent, make minutes
21:43:56 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/04/11-media-minutes.html janina
21:45:41 <janina> Silvia: Believes Ian's proposal is best for moving forward; superior to proposals 2 & 3
21:45:58 <janina> Silvia: Makes all media elements
21:46:12 <janina> Silvia: Proposes to walk through the proposal
21:46:34 <janina> Silvia: Beginning look at Proposal #4 ...
21:48:19 <janina> Bob, Question about exclusive track list, will that change?
21:48:37 <Sean> q+
21:48:44 <janina> Silvia: Exclusive and multiple track list come in as attribs
21:49:00 <janina> Silvia: Ian seems to believe we can only have one video at a time, therefore exclusive
21:49:12 <janina> Bob: So how to do a mosaic of multiple videos
21:49:49 <janina> Silvia: So, you use separate video elements on the page and style through CSS, create a controller to get them to act together
21:50:35 <janina> Silvia: Or, if they're all inband tracks, then you need IDs on each track and ref using media fragment URI
21:51:06 <janina> Eric: It would work, but it makes it difficult to have generic scripts for unknown content
21:52:22 <janina> Mark: If you create one, then the others are exposed and you can go forward
21:52:44 <janina> Eric: For Apple, this would be a step backwards because we already support multiple tracks; would be a step back for us
21:52:55 <janina> Silvia: So how does it now work?
21:53:05 <janina> Eric: You display however it was authored
21:53:26 <janina> Eric: QT has layers and each track is on video matrix that controls where it displays
21:53:39 <sean> sean has joined #media
21:54:07 <janina> Silvia: So, if it's set up one way, PIP, for instance, how to display differently
21:54:38 <janina> Eric: Either in script by disaling all video not to be displayed; then using as source
21:55:01 <janina> Silvia: So we need to change from exclusive to multiple where we have default rendering, but could be changed as desired
21:55:05 <janina> Eric: Think that's right
21:55:28 <janina> Eric: Don't see the exclusivity as helpful
21:56:02 <janina> Silvia: Think he's thinking about slides with someone addressing a meeting, but I agree I'd rather leave to a browser
21:56:26 <janina> Silvia: It would be nice to share a video that can render multiple video
21:56:52 <janina> Silvia: Suggest tracklist be replaced as multiple, not exclusive
21:57:06 <janina> Silvia: Not sure how some browsers will react, Opera ...
21:57:27 <janina> Eric: WebM can only have a single video file
21:57:48 <janina> Eric: Wonders Frank's opinion?
21:57:58 <janina> Frank: We don't yet support multiple tracks
21:58:11 <janina> Frank: We support that it's up to the UA to do this
21:58:38 <janina> Eric: More than one video track in a single file is highly uncommon, but we shouldn't have it as a restriction in the spec
21:59:16 <janina> Mark: In future, if pointing to a manifest, it will be more common; Should not require to download two videos when only one is to be displayed
22:00:13 <janina> janina: We do have the user reqs which specify sign language video track
22:01:56 <janina> janina: Suggesting we check against user reqs when we think we have the engineering we like, just be be sure we got everything
22:02:02 <janina> Silvia: I plan to do code examples
22:02:50 <janina> Eric: No reason to restrict audio tracks
22:02:55 <janina> Sean: Agrees
22:03:43 <janina> Silvia: Our proposal always added kind label language and name ...
22:04:14 <sean> q-
22:04:15 <janina> Silvia: Should we extend Ian's to also have gets for all four of these?
22:04:53 <janina> Silvia: Label is also important for creating menus
22:05:03 <janina> Mark: Agree with both
22:05:05 <janina> Eric: Also
22:06:32 <janina> Silvia: Do we have use cases where we want looping?
22:06:43 <janina> Eric: Absolutely, the same as looping on an individual file
22:07:11 <janina> Eric: Suggest reset time to 0 when rendering reaches $DURATION
22:08:33 <janina> Silvia: Good question, is it enough the group has loop state? Or each individual track?
22:08:47 <janina> Sean: Feel like we're badly reinventing SMIL
22:08:47 <Zakim> +Judy
22:09:25 <janina> Silvia: SMIL does much more, though
22:10:54 <janina> Sean: Not suggesting we adopt all of SMIL; simply saying SMIL has support for everything we're discussing
22:11:09 <janina> Silvia: Think it would be difficult, but maybe worthy of the exercise?
22:11:22 <janina> Sean: Best we make sure we don't do something incompatible with that model
22:11:37 <janina> Silvia: Won't be used in the same context as SMIL, so why does it need to be compatible?
22:11:53 <janina> Judy: We are hearing from multiple directions that alignment would be useful
22:13:19 <sean> ACTION: Sean Explore reusing SMIL semantics for repeat
22:14:15 <Zakim> -Judy
22:15:54 <janina> Silvia: Exploring metadata events ....
22:16:49 <janina> Sean: I'm think about this a bit differently, splitting controller away from network parts
22:17:21 <janina> Sean: That way controller need not be explicitly created, as there's always one by default
22:17:41 <janina> Silvia: Is that basically just an IDL change?
22:17:43 <janina> Sean: Yes.
22:18:20 <janina> Sean: But the network states are separate
22:18:31 <silvia> zakim, mute me
22:18:31 <Zakim> silvia should now be muted
22:18:33 <janina> Eric: Would you leave the existing interfaces?
22:18:49 <janina> Sean: It's just rearranging them, it's just more tidy
22:19:14 <janina> Eric: I find this interesting, but hesitate very much to remove anything we already have for compatability concerns
22:19:23 <janina> Sean: You just say they map to the controller
22:19:39 <janina> Sean: My problem, as currently we have things, is that the controller need always be explicitly created
22:19:49 <janina> Sean: I'd rather it were implicit
22:20:02 <janina> Eric: Actually, if you have elements in the same group, it is already implicit
22:20:23 <janina> Sean: I don't like that it doesn't do that if it's not in a group
22:20:33 <janina> Eric: Yes, that's an interesting approach
22:20:37 <Zakim> -silvia
22:21:53 <janina> Eric: One issue listed in Wiki we haven't yet discussed is default controls, think it's important to have UA default controls
22:22:18 <janina> Frank: So, how would that work? A controller element positioned on the page?
22:22:35 <janina> Sean: yes, perhaps a shadow DOM construct
22:23:06 <janina> Sean: So, it might be something we could apply styling to
22:23:16 <janina> Sean: And would be available by default
22:23:46 <janina> janina: Asks if anyone is opposed?
22:23:52 <janina> Eric: Not sure, but am conflicted
22:24:31 <janina> Sean: So this is a thought expiriment -- there's the shadow DOM, but no representation
22:24:49 <janina> Eric: Yes, a firewall between the shadow and the parent, so that js can't get to them
22:25:08 <janina> Frank: We would have the same limitation in IE
22:25:19 <Zakim> +Judy
22:25:47 <janina> Eric: I haven't yet thought of a way to make it work
22:25:58 <janina> Frank: Question about proposal 4
22:26:18 <janina> Frank: How to get track list count --- Ah, I see it now!
22:27:12 <janina> Frank: So, media controller maps to some amount of UI elements in background
22:27:32 <janina> Frank: Is there a simple mapping here? A union of all the elements in the group?
22:27:36 <janina> Eric: I'd say a union
22:28:22 <janina> Eric: I personally believe we should expect all samples to be played to be loaded first
22:30:21 <janina> Mark: Do we have a definitive list of track kinds that we want proposed for getkind?
22:30:26 <janina> Sean: Think it's still open ended
22:30:40 <janina> Mark: suggest we would want to close that at some point--a basic set?
22:30:44 <janina> Sean: Yes, but extensible
22:30:51 <janina> Frank: Audio, video and text?
22:31:11 <janina> Mark: Thought it would tell you "texted video description," "sign language translation," etc
22:31:36 <janina> Frank: What's the current thinking of displaying multiple text tracks simoultaneously
22:32:51 <janina> Sean: We're not restricted on audio, so why on text?
22:32:58 <janina> Frank: Yes, but not currently a spec req
22:33:46 <janina> Sean: So, at minimum, text for each audio track
22:39:55 <janina> general discussion of displaying multiple text tracks? spec reqs?
22:40:35 <janina> Frank: There are three states, off, (no events and nothing displayed); showing (js generated and siaplayed); hidden (nothing displayed, but events fired)
22:40:50 <janina> Eric: And if off, data not loaded
22:45:33 <Zakim> -Bob
22:45:35 <Zakim> -Eric_Carlson
22:45:36 <Zakim> -Frank
22:45:39 <Zakim> -mark
22:45:52 <Zakim> -Sean
22:45:54 <Zakim> -Judy
22:45:55 <Zakim> -janina
22:45:55 <Zakim> Team_(media)21:34Z has ended
22:45:57 <Zakim> Attendees were Eric_Carlson, silvia, +44.154.558.aaaa, mark, Sean, Bob, janina, Frank, Judy
22:46:07 <janina> zakim, make minutes
22:46:07 <Zakim> I don't understand 'make minutes', janina
22:46:16 <janina> rrsagent, make minutes
22:46:16 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/04/11-media-minutes.html janina
23:00:18 <eric_carlson> eric_carlson has left #media