IRC log of mediafrag on 2011-04-06
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 09:01:50 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #mediafrag
- 09:01:50 [RRSAgent]
- logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/04/06-mediafrag-irc
- 09:01:52 [trackbot]
- RRSAgent, make logs public
- 09:01:52 [Zakim]
- Zakim has joined #mediafrag
- 09:01:54 [trackbot]
- Zakim, this will be IA_MFWG
- 09:01:54 [Zakim]
- ok, trackbot; I see IA_MFWG()5:00AM scheduled to start now
- 09:01:55 [trackbot]
- Meeting: Media Fragments Working Group Teleconference
- 09:01:55 [trackbot]
- Date: 06 April 2011
- 09:02:02 [jackjansen]
- zakim, code?
- 09:02:02 [Zakim]
- the conference code is 3724 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), jackjansen
- 09:02:05 [Zakim]
- IA_MFWG()5:00AM has now started
- 09:02:06 [Zakim]
- +Yves
- 09:02:12 [Zakim]
- + +46.3.13.48.aaaa
- 09:02:31 [foolip]
- Zakim, how do I let you know which caller I am then?
- 09:02:31 [Zakim]
- I don't understand your question, foolip.
- 09:02:35 [foolip]
- Zakim, that figures
- 09:02:35 [Zakim]
- I don't understand 'that figures', foolip
- 09:02:38 [Zakim]
- + +33.4.93.00.aabb
- 09:02:47 [Zakim]
- + +329331aacc
- 09:03:19 [foolip]
- Zakim, mute me
- 09:03:19 [Zakim]
- foolip should now be muted
- 09:03:20 [raphael]
- Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-fragment/2011Apr/0000.html
- 09:03:23 [raphael]
- Chair: Raphael
- 09:03:32 [raphael]
- Regrets: Erik, Silvia, Thomas
- 09:03:41 [Zakim]
- + +31.20.592.aadd
- 09:03:47 [raphael]
- Present: Yves, Davy, Yves, Raphael, Jack
- 09:03:49 [jackjansen]
- zakim, aadd is me
- 09:03:49 [Zakim]
- +jackjansen; got it
- 09:03:59 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/04/06-mediafrag-minutes.html raphael
- 09:04:32 [raphael]
- Scribe: raphael
- 09:04:48 [raphael]
- Scribenick: raphael
- 09:04:56 [raphael]
- Topic: 1. Admin
- 09:05:27 [raphael]
- PROPOSED to accept the minutes of the last week telecon: http://www.w3.org/2011/03/23-mediafrag-minutes.html
- 09:05:29 [foolip]
- +1
- 09:05:31 [raphael]
- +1
- 09:05:32 [davy]
- +1
- 09:05:36 [raphael]
- minutes accepted
- 09:05:37 [Yves]
- +1
- 09:05:43 [raphael]
- close ACTION-215
- 09:05:44 [trackbot]
- ACTION-215 Poke people and encourage them to join the telecons closed
- 09:05:55 [raphael]
- Topic: 2. HTML5 Bugs
- 09:06:00 [raphael]
- ACTION-213?
- 09:06:00 [trackbot]
- ACTION-213 -- Silvia Pfeiffer to submit the proposed list of bugs to HTML5 -- due 2011-03-23 -- OPEN
- 09:06:00 [trackbot]
- http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/213
- 09:06:07 [raphael]
- close ACTIOn-213
- 09:06:07 [trackbot]
- ACTION-213 Submit the proposed list of bugs to HTML5 closed
- 09:06:30 [raphael]
- 4 bugs now in the tracker
- 09:06:30 [raphael]
- http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=10723
- 09:06:35 [raphael]
- http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=12425
- 09:06:37 [raphael]
- http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=12426
- 09:06:39 [raphael]
- http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=12427
- 09:07:11 [foolip]
- not really
- 09:07:18 [foolip]
- (sorry, I'm muted)
- 09:07:38 [foolip]
- I've replied
- 09:08:55 [foolip]
- http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=12426
- 09:10:24 [raphael]
- Topic: 3. TEST CASES
- 09:10:41 [jackjansen]
- q+
- 09:10:48 [raphael]
- zakim, ack jackjansen
- 09:10:48 [Zakim]
- I see no one on the speaker queue
- 09:11:34 [raphael]
- UA test cases: http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/TC/ua-test-cases.html
- 09:11:35 [foolip]
- q+
- 09:11:46 [raphael]
- Server test cases: http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/TC/server-test-cases.html
- 09:11:47 [foolip]
- Zakim, unmute me
- 09:11:47 [Zakim]
- foolip should no longer be muted
- 09:12:14 [raphael]
- Jack: test cases are made for testing the spec and not for particular implementations
- 09:12:38 [raphael]
- Philip: what does it mean? test cases are made for implementations
- 09:13:09 [raphael]
- Jack: no, because test cases are made for making sure the wording of the spec can at least be interpreted the same way by 2 different people
- 09:13:45 [raphael]
- Davy: I also think we should not battle for this, we mean roughly the same thing
- 09:15:12 [Yves]
- well, it's those corner cases that are important, testing the spec by implementing is indeed to see if people got the same reading, but also if the coverage of the issue raised by implementation is good enough in the spec
- 09:15:31 [raphael]
- Davy: let's start for the UA test cases
- 09:15:44 [foolip]
- Zakim, mute me
- 09:15:44 [Zakim]
- foolip should now be muted
- 09:15:45 [raphael]
- URI: http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/TC/ua-test-cases.html
- 09:16:14 [raphael]
- ... we have 60 Test Cases
- 09:18:04 [raphael]
- Davy: I will go over the list of TC, and you should shout if you disagree
- 09:18:17 [davy]
- http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/TC/ua-test-cases#TC0001-UA
- 09:18:56 [foolip]
- Zakim, unmute me
- 09:18:56 [Zakim]
- foolip should no longer be muted
- 09:19:50 [foolip]
- npttimedef = [ deftimeformat ":"] ( npttime [ "," npttime ] ) / ( "," npttime )
- 09:20:02 [foolip]
- http://www.w3.org/TR/media-frags/#naming-time
- 09:20:53 [raphael]
- TC 1 is wrong ... syntax is invalid
- 09:21:04 [raphael]
- ... it should be equivalent to 27
- 09:21:08 [raphael]
- ... but we should test it
- 09:21:15 [raphael]
- s/27/TC27
- 09:21:19 [raphael]
- s/TC 1/TC1
- 09:21:23 [davy]
- http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/TC/ua-test-cases#TC0002-UA
- 09:22:57 [raphael]
- Philip: I also disagree on this one ... I think it should be an error
- 09:23:18 [raphael]
- Jack: no, since the intervals are half-open
- 09:23:54 [raphael]
- Philip: it means that it will be a still image?
- 09:24:04 [raphael]
- Jack: no, it means TC2 and TC3 are equivalent
- 09:24:35 [raphael]
- ... start of the interval is inclusive, and end of the interval is exclusive
- 09:25:14 [Yves]
- TC2 with start=end mean display this point in time (one picture in a video?)
- 09:26:15 [raphael]
- Should we enforce e>s
- 09:26:43 [raphael]
- Philip: it is also reasonable to have e=s
- 09:26:58 [raphael]
- Jack: I think I would prefer half-open intervals
- 09:27:52 [raphael]
- Raphael: but Jack, is [3,3) valid?
- 09:28:44 [raphael]
- Philip: I think it should be considered as an invalid range
- 09:29:31 [raphael]
- ... so the whole resource should be requested
- 09:29:48 [raphael]
- ... the UA has detected with its logic that this is an invalid range
- 09:30:36 [raphael]
- Davy: instead of requesting the whole resource, we could just request the include-setup
- 09:30:56 [raphael]
- Philip: this is the general problem of what to do with invalid range
- 09:31:01 [raphael]
- ... again similar to TC27
- 09:31:30 [homata]
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- 09:32:20 [davy_]
- davy_ has joined #mediafrag
- 09:32:24 [raphael]
- Raphael: Philip and Davy prefer to request the whole resource
- 09:32:46 [raphael]
- ... Silvia will perhaps prefer to request only the setup data
- 09:33:14 [raphael]
- ... Jack does not care, Yves has a slight preference to display a still image but just want we specify what should it be
- 09:33:51 [raphael]
- Philip: I think we should just ignore invalid ranges to simplify implementations
- 09:34:01 [jackjansen]
- I don't care, but I agree with Yves that we should specify it.
- 09:34:45 [foolip]
- Zakim, mute me
- 09:34:45 [Zakim]
- foolip should now be muted
- 09:35:58 [raphael]
- Raphael: TC2, TC3, TC27 (and perhaps other TC) will request the entire resource ... except if Silvia strongly disagree
- 09:36:09 [raphael]
- http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/TC/ua-test-cases#TC0003-UA
- 09:36:10 [raphael]
- done
- 09:36:12 [davy_]
- http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/TC/ua-test-cases#TC0004-UA
- 09:36:39 [foolip]
- Zakim, unmute me
- 09:36:39 [Zakim]
- foolip should no longer be muted
- 09:36:43 [davy_]
- http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/TC/ua-test-cases#TC0008-UA
- 09:36:46 [foolip]
- q+
- 09:36:59 [davy_]
- http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/TC/ua-test-cases#TC0013-UA
- 09:39:59 [Yves]
- you can't know in advance that you are requesting the whole resource, right?
- 09:40:07 [foolip]
- Range: bytes=x-y
- 09:40:34 [raphael]
- zakim, ack davy
- 09:40:34 [Zakim]
- I see foolip on the speaker queue
- 09:40:40 [foolip]
- Zakim, mute me
- 09:40:40 [Zakim]
- foolip should now be muted
- 09:41:06 [raphael]
- Davy: I can add a 4th option with a Range request expressed in bytes
- 09:42:09 [foolip]
- Zakim, unmute me
- 09:42:09 [Zakim]
- foolip should no longer be muted
- 09:43:12 [raphael]
- Philip: we should not specify all the possible ways, but just make sure we can request byte ranges request for TC4
- 09:43:31 [foolip]
- Zakim, mute me
- 09:43:31 [Zakim]
- foolip should now be muted
- 09:44:42 [raphael]
- Raphael: for TC4, add the possibility to issue a Range request expressed in bytes
- 09:45:01 [foolip]
- Zakim, unmute me
- 09:45:01 [Zakim]
- foolip should no longer be muted
- 09:45:09 [raphael]
- http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/TC/ua-test-cases#TC0005-UA
- 09:45:23 [raphael]
- Philip: the byte ranges could be different
- 09:45:37 [raphael]
- ... should we just write x-y ?
- 09:46:16 [foolip]
- Zakim, mute me
- 09:46:16 [Zakim]
- foolip should now be muted
- 09:46:21 [raphael]
- Jack: I'm concerned about readability of the table
- 09:46:31 [raphael]
- ... so we could add at the top this is just possible outcomes
- 09:46:47 [raphael]
- ... for the byte ranges requests (depending on how UA caches things anyway)
- 09:46:47 [foolip]
- Zakim, unmute me
- 09:46:47 [Zakim]
- foolip should no longer be muted
- 09:49:26 [raphael]
- Philip: we should also add on the top of the table that we could have a number of range requests (not a single one)
- 09:49:57 [raphael]
- Davy: the column 4 meant that either the UA has knowledge about the media or it has not ... it does say how he got this information
- 09:51:00 [raphael]
- Jack: will this column 4 be used for automatic testing ?
- 09:51:20 [raphael]
- ... if yes, then Philip's implementation will fail on all test cases
- 09:51:42 [raphael]
- Davy: we just ignore the first request of Philip's implementation
- 09:51:49 [raphael]
- ... the include-setup one
- 09:53:44 [raphael]
- Davy: is it important that we log/check the HTTP request?
- 09:54:13 [raphael]
- ... is it important how the UA get the MF visualization right?
- 09:55:10 [raphael]
- Philip: checking the HTTP implementation is secondary, we absolutely need to test the playback behavior
- 09:56:06 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/04/06-mediafrag-minutes.html raphael
- 09:57:55 [Yves]
- main thing is defining the semantic of the #frag, then the http interaction is optional
- 10:01:50 [raphael]
- Raphael: my UA download the entire resource and just seek to the start of the fragment on client side, and stop playing at the end of the fragment ... is this a conforming implementation ?
- 10:03:08 [raphael]
- Yves: we need to check the playback in the UA, not the network
- 10:03:21 [Zakim]
- -foolip
- 10:03:22 [Zakim]
- -Raphael
- 10:03:22 [Zakim]
- -jackjansen
- 10:03:23 [Zakim]
- -Yves
- 10:03:23 [Zakim]
- IA_MFWG()5:00AM has ended
- 10:03:24 [Zakim]
- Attendees were Yves, +46.3.13.48.aaaa, +33.4.93.00.aabb, +329331aacc, Raphael, foolip, Davy, +31.20.592.aadd, jackjansen
- 10:03:43 [raphael]
- Jack: servers might not be MF compliant and the UA should not be penalized
- 10:03:56 [raphael]
- Rphael: it's noon, thanks all for attending
- 10:04:02 [raphael]
- s/Rphael/Raphael
- 10:04:08 [raphael]
- ... are you all here next week
- 10:04:10 [raphael]
- ALL: yes
- 10:04:15 [raphael]
- Topic: 4. AOB
- 10:04:33 [raphael]
- Next week, we keep discussing all TC, that will include the changes of Davy!
- 10:04:38 [raphael]
- Round of applause for his work
- 10:04:45 [raphael]
- Meeting adjourned
- 10:04:49 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/04/06-mediafrag-minutes.html raphael
- 10:07:53 [raphael]
- ScribeOptions: -final -noEmbedDiagnostics
- 10:07:54 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/04/06-mediafrag-minutes.html raphael
- 10:07:56 [davy_]
- davy_ has left #mediafrag
- 10:08:38 [raphael]
- zakim, bye
- 10:08:38 [Zakim]
- Zakim has left #mediafrag
- 10:08:42 [raphael]
- RRSAgent, bye
- 10:08:42 [RRSAgent]
- I see no action items