15:02:50 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #forms
15:02:50 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/03/30-forms-irc
15:02:52 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
15:02:52 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #forms
15:02:54 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be IA_XForms
15:02:54 <Zakim> ok, trackbot, I see IA_XForms()11:00AM already started
15:02:55 <trackbot> Meeting: Forms Working Group Teleconference
15:02:55 <trackbot> Date: 30 March 2011
15:03:35 <Zakim> +Leigh_Klotz
15:03:38 <klotz> zakim, who is here
15:03:38 <Zakim> klotz, you need to end that query with '?'
15:03:40 <klotz> zakim, who is here?
15:03:40 <Zakim> On the phone I see +1.952.931.aaaa, +44.782.483.aabb, Leigh_Klotz
15:03:41 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, klotz, pfennell, alain, markbirbeck, trackbot
15:05:36 <dmccreary> dmccreary has joined #forms
15:05:42 <pfennell> pfennell has joined #forms
15:05:50 <dmccreary> greetings everyone
15:05:57 <ebruchez> ebruchez has joined #forms
15:06:16 <dmccreary> we still have snow n the ground in Minneapolis
15:07:04 <klotz> ebruchez are you calling in or IRC only today?
15:07:20 <Zakim> +ebruchez
15:07:54 <klotz> scribe: ebruchez
15:07:58 <klotz> scribenick: ebruchez
15:08:53 <klotz> *topic Request-Response IDs [was Submission Retries]
15:09:07 <ebruchez> TOPIC: Request-Response IDs [was Submission Retries]
15:09:28 <klotz> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/wiki/Submission_Request-Response_IDs
15:10:20 <ebruchez> (Leigh describing use cases on wiki.)
15:12:19 <ebruchez> Leigh: Would be good if ppl could review that proposal.
15:14:02 <ebruchez> TOPIC: Incremental delay
15:14:23 <ebruchez> Leigh: We got some more comments on this on the list.
15:14:40 <ebruchez> Dan: Raja Mani is heading an XForms project in India.
15:18:25 <alain> Hello, I'll just be on IRC for the next 15 minutes
15:19:16 <ebruchez> Erik: Was reviewing Joern's reply. Agree that spec shouldn't constrain too much. Also wondering if we do need something in this delay.
15:24:03 <klotz> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2011Mar/0035.html
15:24:31 <ebruchez> ACTION: Leigh to respond to thread on incremental delays http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2011Mar/0035.html
15:24:32 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1787 - Respond to thread on incremental delays http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2011Mar/0035.html [on Leigh Klotz, Jr. - due 2011-04-06].
15:25:35 <dmccreary> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/wiki/Annotations
15:25:54 <ebruchez> TOPIC: Annotations
15:27:24 <ebruchez> Dan: What I put on the wiki: quick definitions, it's a standard in itself and can be complicated. People using this already so we should think about to standardize this.
15:28:26 <ebruchez> Dan: TEI is Text Encoding Initiative. Annotations you can add e.g. for historical docs. Work I did for State Dept was to use this to facilitate search in history of diplomacy.
15:28:37 <klotz> Easy demo: http://demo.danmccreary.com/rest/db/dma/apps/tei-annotator/unit-tests/05-tei-load-test.xq
15:30:02 <ebruchez> Dan: Annotations to textarea, e.g. Orbeon uses mediatype="text/html". What we did was to extend to specify an XML Schema describing annotations and automatically configure editor based on schema.
15:30:25 <Zakim> + +1.443.837.aacc
15:30:33 <dmccreary> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/wiki/Annotation_Use_Case_Simple_Content_Wrap
15:31:48 <ebruchez> Dan: Simple use case: blog publishing, needs just bold, italics, etc.. Allows this kind of configuration.
15:32:11 <klotz> zakim, aacc is kurt
15:32:11 <Zakim> +kurt; got it
15:32:16 <klotz> zakim, mute kurt
15:32:16 <Zakim> kurt should now be muted
15:32:32 <klotz> http://sourceforge.net/projects/teiann/
15:32:39 <ebruchez> Dan: More complex use case: e.g. State Dept has list of names, can do highlighting of those by calling service.
15:33:17 <alain> alain has joined #forms
15:33:29 <dmccreary> http://demo.danmccreary.com/rest/db/dma/apps/tei-annotator/index.xq
15:34:03 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
15:34:11 <klotz> zakim, unmute kurt
15:34:11 <Zakim> kurt should no longer be muted
15:34:21 <ebruchez> Leigh: (...)
15:34:25 <dmccreary> http://demo.danmccreary.com/rest/db/dma/apps/tei-annotator/unit-tests/05-tei-toolbar-test.xq
15:34:39 <klotz> zakim, mute kurt
15:34:39 <Zakim> kurt should now be muted
15:34:58 <ebruchez> Dan: I have some examples online (caveat: might not work w/ IE).
15:36:30 <klotz> zakim, unmute kurt
15:36:30 <Zakim> kurt should no longer be muted
15:36:30 <ebruchez> Dan: Goal is to show what we have done, get discussion started, hope is to have some kind of standardization.
15:37:29 <ebruchez> Leigh: Do you have examples of schema for textarea?
15:38:22 <ebruchez> Dan: In this case I used some element names following what they do in Fed projects. If we standardize would need to be changed. Would like to see how this would work w/ XForms. And whether this should be handled in the XForms community of as something separate.
15:39:22 <ebruchez> Leigh: Would be good if you could show what you already have. (...) If W3C was to start work on this, that will not be before a couple of years.
15:39:59 <ebruchez> Leigh: W3C has "Submissions", which are from members, and rather informal.
15:40:59 <ebruchez> Leigh: That could be a first official step. You can start with the wiki.
15:41:06 <klotz> zakim, unmute kurt
15:41:06 <Zakim> kurt was not muted, klotz
15:41:42 <dmccreary> I will work on creating a "submission"
15:43:04 <ebruchez> TOPIC: XML Prague
15:44:09 <dmccreary> XForms was mentioned in at least three presentations - growing in popularity
15:45:07 <dmccreary> proceedings here: http://www.xmlprague.cz/2011/files/xmlprague-2011-proceedings.pdf
15:45:18 <ebruchez> Alain: XForms was mentioned a lot this year, in 3 presentations. On JSON, some questions on this, Marklogic has a proposal, with differences re. escaping, and they have a query language.
15:46:22 <ebruchez> Alain: MarkLogic had demo jam where I demoed  some XForms, with uploading and a simple XML editor.
15:46:35 <dmccreary> Alain did a demonstration of autogeneration of XForms apps from instance documents
15:47:02 <dmccreary> Thomas White did a demonstration of "nanoforms"
15:47:05 <ebruchez> Alain: betterFORM people demonstrated large form capabilities. Something called nanoforms. There were more demos involving XForms.
15:47:28 <dmccreary> This was a very light-weight approach to editing a small fragment of a web page
15:48:50 <ebruchez> Alain: Mike Kay's client-side XSLT. Ppl working on building apps w/ XSLT or XQuery on the client.
15:48:58 <ebruchez> Alain: No JavaScript required.
15:50:03 <ebruchez> Alain: Got inquiries into XForms and XSLTForms. 
15:50:39 <ebruchez> Alain: Michael Sperberg-McQueen will give a class in California in June on XForms.
15:52:24 <ebruchez> Kurt: Follow-up on this. I looked at Saxon CE. Closer from XBL than anything else. Worth spending time looking at this.
15:53:14 <klotz> Saxon-CE: http://www.biglist.com/lists/lists.mulberrytech.com/xsl-list/archives/201103/msg00150.html
15:53:27 <ebruchez> Erik: You are saying there are some binding capabilities w/ it?
15:54:12 <ebruchez> Kurt: Yes. You can create a template/@match and set a mode to an event. I can say "here is an input control". 
15:54:37 <ebruchez> Kurt: Can react to e.g. key events in the interface.
15:55:16 <ebruchez> Kurt: Significant potential.
15:59:11 <ebruchez> Erik: XBL 2 also has a template language. It is poor. Using XSLT is much more powerful. What's missing to this for a full component solution is encapsulation. It's a major feature to allow reuse.
15:59:33 <ebruchez> Kurt: I agree, encapsulation is a key thing.
16:00:01 <ebruchez> Kurt: I am still exploring this.
16:00:33 <ebruchez> Kurt: Events can bridge to JavaScript too. Not sure if this is fully implemented yet. It's preliminary.
16:00:52 <ebruchez> Kurt: I think it's a very impressive piece.
16:01:27 <ebruchez> Kurt: Downside to this is initial download.
16:01:59 <ebruchez> Kurt: But unavoidable for that kind of JavaScript implementation.
16:03:50 <Zakim> -ebruchez
16:03:51 <Zakim> -Leigh_Klotz
16:03:53 <Zakim> - +1.952.931.aaaa
16:03:54 <ebruchez> ACTION: Kurt to summarize the client-side XSLT 2 binding / Saxon CE discussion for further discussions.
16:03:54 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1788 - Summarize the client-side XSLT 2 binding / Saxon CE discussion for further discussions. [on Kurt Cagle - due 2011-04-06].
16:03:55 <Zakim> -kurt
16:04:00 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]
16:04:09 <klotz> rrsagent, make minutes
16:04:09 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/03/30-forms-minutes.html klotz
16:04:22 <Zakim> - +44.782.483.aabb
16:04:23 <Zakim> IA_XForms()11:00AM has ended
16:04:25 <Zakim> Attendees were +1.952.931.aaaa, +44.782.483.aabb, Leigh_Klotz, ebruchez, +1.443.837.aacc, kurt, [IPcaller]
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