14:50:48 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #i18n
14:50:48 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/03/23-i18n-irc
14:50:55 <aphillip> trackbot, prepare teleconference
14:50:57 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
14:50:59 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 4186
14:50:59 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see I18N_CoreWG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 10 minutes
14:51:00 <trackbot> Meeting: Internationalization Core Working Group Teleconference
14:51:00 <trackbot> Date: 23 March 2011
14:51:28 <aphillip> Chair:   Addison Phillips
14:51:28 <aphillip> Scribe: Addison Phillips
14:51:31 <aphillip> ScribeNick: aphillip
14:51:46 <aphillip> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2011Mar/0012.html
14:51:53 <aphillip> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:51:53 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/03/23-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
14:52:21 <aphillip> RRSAgent, draft minutes
14:52:21 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/03/23-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
14:52:45 <aphillip> Regrets: Gwyneth
14:54:45 <fsasaki> fsasaki has joined #i18n
15:00:27 <matial> matial has joined #i18n
15:00:52 <r12a> r12a has joined #i18n
15:01:08 <aphillip> zakim, are you alive?
15:01:09 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, aphillip.
15:01:25 <r12a> zakim, dial richard please
15:01:26 <Zakim> ok, r12a; the call is being made
15:01:28 <Zakim> I18N_CoreWG()11:00AM has now started
15:01:29 <Zakim> +Richard
15:01:45 <Zakim> +??P19
15:01:49 <David> David has joined #i18n
15:01:51 <Zakim> +Addison_Phillips
15:01:52 <Zakim> +??P15
15:01:55 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
15:01:56 <aharon> aharon has joined #i18n
15:01:59 <aphillip> zakim, I am Addison_Phillips
15:01:59 <Zakim> ok, aphillip, I now associate you with Addison_Phillips
15:02:25 <Zakim> +[IPcaller.a]
15:02:27 <matial> ??p19 is me
15:02:39 <aphillip> zakim, ??P19 is matial
15:02:41 <andrewc> andrewc has joined #i18n
15:02:43 <Zakim> +matial; got it
15:02:53 <aphillip> zakim, [IPcaller] is fsasaki
15:02:56 <Zakim> + +972.7.474.6aaaa
15:02:56 <kojiishi> kojiishi has joined #i18n
15:03:08 <Zakim> +fsasaki; got it
15:03:10 <Zakim> +??P17
15:03:10 <matial> zakim, mute me
15:03:20 <aharon> zakim, mute me
15:03:24 <aharon> zakim, mute me
15:03:26 <Zakim> -??P17
15:03:30 <Zakim> matial should now be muted
15:03:42 <Zakim> aharon should now be muted
15:03:46 <Zakim> aharon was already muted, aharon
15:03:52 <Zakim> +??P31
15:03:56 <matial> zakim, mute me
15:03:58 <kojiishi> zakim, ??P31 is me
15:04:17 <Zakim> matial was already muted, matial
15:04:18 <aharon> aharon has joined #i18n
15:04:23 <Zakim> +kojiishi; got it
15:04:35 <Zakim> + +44.141.888.aabb
15:05:02 <aharon> FYI, unfortunately, I only have half an hour today.
15:05:12 <Zakim> -felix
15:05:22 <aphillip> Topic: Minutes and Agenda review
15:05:35 <aphillip> Topic: Action Items
15:06:07 <aphillip> Review techniques index pages to check that all the current links in the index point to the right place 
15:06:13 <aphillip> (kenny)
15:06:14 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
15:06:14 <kennyluck> needs more time.
15:06:19 <aphillip> thanks
15:06:33 <aphillip> close ACTION-24
15:06:33 <trackbot> ACTION-24 Send addison tools for conversion to HTML closed
15:06:45 <aphillip> Finish edits and convert time zones document to HTML
15:07:02 <aphillip> 	Ping Unicode via liasion about LISA standards status
15:07:26 <aphillip> Topic: Info Share
15:07:27 <kennyluck> +q
15:07:33 <aphillip> ack kennyluck
15:08:20 <aphillip> type into IRC? or dial in again?
15:08:28 <Zakim> -kennyluck
15:08:45 <Zakim> +??P15
15:09:16 <kennyluck> -> http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/infrastructure.html#renderingUA renderingUA
15:09:21 <aphillip> kenny: html spec now has section on rendering UA
15:09:39 <aphillip> ... default stylesheets for almost all elements
15:09:50 <aphillip> ... not required to support all default style sheets
15:10:17 <aphillip> ... but now editor now says UAs that support stylesheets MUST support these sheets
15:10:29 <aphillip> ... so now we can write tests
15:10:56 <aphillip> ... think aharon filed a bug like this
15:11:01 <aharon> zakim, unmute me
15:11:01 <Zakim> aharon should no longer be muted
15:11:11 <aphillip> aharon: did file such a bug
15:11:22 <aphillip> ... sound like a good development
15:11:56 <aharon> zakim, mute me
15:11:56 <Zakim> aharon should now be muted
15:12:19 <aphillip> Topic: Language preference setting in a browser
15:12:30 <aphillip>     http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2011Mar/0011.html 
15:12:55 <aphillip> http://www.w3.org/International/questions/temp.php
15:13:03 <aphillip> richard: okay to publish?
15:13:15 <David> zakim, mute me
15:13:15 <Zakim> sorry, David, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
15:13:34 <David> zakim, +44 is David
15:13:34 <Zakim> +David; got it
15:13:36 <kennyluck> s/these sheets/these sheets no matter they are purely presentational like font-size, etc. or bidi properties/
15:13:45 <David> zakim, mute me
15:13:45 <Zakim> David should now be muted
15:14:10 <aphillip> ACTION: all: review the proposed new version of language preferences and send comments to public-i18n@
15:14:10 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - all
15:15:10 <aphillip> Topic: Richard's Info Share
15:15:28 <aphillip> richard: HTML announced recently that they will create their own IRI section
15:15:37 <aphillip> ... because work going too slowly on ietf spec
15:16:04 <aphillip> Topic: I18N-ISSUE 17 Should UTF-16 be valid in (polyglot) HTML5 documents?
15:16:17 <aphillip>     http://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/17
15:16:41 <aphillip> http://dev.w3.org/html5/html-xhtml-author-guide/html-xhtml-authoring-guide.html#character-encoding
15:16:52 <aphillip> Previously the polyglot document allowed only UTF-8 and UTF-16 encodings. Leif Silli has proposed that only UTF-8 be allowed, and the editor of the polyglot document has changed the specification to say that.
15:17:32 <kennyluck> i/Topic: I18N-ISSUE/-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2011Mar/0404 HTML WG's decision on reference to IRI/
15:17:54 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/03/23-i18n-minutes.html kennyluck
15:17:56 <David> zakim, unmute me
15:17:56 <Zakim> David should no longer be muted
15:18:25 <aphillip> richard: think maybe somebody might think UTF-16 is important enough to keep???
15:18:52 <aphillip> ... don't follow Leif's argument that it should be banned because HTML5 doesn't necessarily support it
15:20:45 <aphillip> david: think it's a good step
15:20:57 <aphillip> ... tools and parsers can be just that little bit simpler
15:21:27 <aphillip> addison: is our official position "don't care"
15:21:59 <aphillip> ACTION: addison: send note to html wg saying "no objection" is our official position on issue 17
15:21:59 <trackbot> Created ACTION-31 - Send note to html wg saying "no objection" is our official position on issue 17 [on Addison Phillips - due 2011-03-30].
15:22:16 <aphillip> Topic: ISSUE-88 resolution (??)
15:22:28 <aphillip>     http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-core/2011JanMar/0111.html
15:22:46 <aphillip>   http://www.w3.org/mid/4D84B9B4.3040809@intertwingly.net
15:23:45 <aphillip> Therefore, the HTML Working Group hereby adopts the Change Proposal to make Content-Language non-conforming.  Of the Change Proposals before us, this one has drawn the weaker objections.
15:25:06 <aphillip> addison: so documents with cl are invalid
15:25:23 <aphillip> ... but maintain rules allowing mapping of CL to html@lang if not present
15:26:08 <aphillip> ... two issues:
15:26:12 <aphillip> ... 1. are we okay with this?
15:26:27 <aphillip> ... 2. do we want to change any of the remaining rules?
15:28:35 <aphillip> addison: on the one hand, makes our lives MUCH easier
15:28:47 <aphillip> ... but it's odd to pick the one header out of the HTTP forest to make invalid
15:28:51 <aharon> zakim, unmute me
15:28:51 <Zakim> aharon should no longer be muted
15:28:54 <aphillip> richard: on balance happy to see it go
15:31:15 <aphillip> <meta language="xxx" />
15:35:28 <aphillip> david: not going to upset very many people, but makes many people's lives easier
15:35:52 <aphillip> andrewc: possible to use other metadata schemas to do the same thing
15:36:02 <aharon> zakim, mute me
15:36:02 <Zakim> aharon should now be muted
15:36:08 <aphillip> richard: that would be a lot clearer than this
15:36:19 <aphillip> ... and its use hsa been perverted
15:36:24 <aphillip> ... which we want to stop
15:36:33 <aphillip> ... (not make equivalent to @lang)
15:36:39 <aharon> FWIW, from someone who does not know much about the issue, proposal sounds good to me.
15:36:56 <aphillip> addison: so does this mean we have strong support?
15:37:02 <aphillip> richard: with regret, yes
15:37:04 <fsasaki> no objections
15:37:16 <kennyluck> no objections.
15:37:24 <David> +1
15:37:30 <matial> no objections
15:37:31 <aharon> no objections
15:37:34 <andrewc> no objections
15:37:34 <aharon> Sorry, have to go now.
15:37:43 <aphillip> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:37:43 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/03/23-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
15:37:48 <Zakim> -aharon
15:38:02 <aphillip> addison: +1
15:38:04 <aharon> aharon has left #i18n
15:38:32 <aphillip> ACTION: addison: write a response on issue 88 indicating our support for the decision
15:38:32 <trackbot> Created ACTION-32 - Write a response on issue 88 indicating our support for the decision [on Addison Phillips - due 2011-03-30].
15:39:25 <aphillip> Topic: CSS3 writing mode, text module
15:39:37 <aphillip> anything to cover this week? some responses from fantasai...
15:39:56 <kennyluck> +q
15:39:58 <kennyluck> q+
15:40:03 <aphillip> richard: meta discussion about how to track these issues?
15:40:17 <aphillip> ... lots of stuff we don't really track
15:40:26 <aphillip> ack kennyluck
15:41:12 <aphillip> richard: issue 17, for example....
15:41:17 <aphillip> ... this was something going on on the html list
15:41:20 <aphillip> ... so turned into issue
15:41:32 <aphillip> ... in the past we track WG comments that way (prior to our endorsement)
15:41:40 <aphillip> ... after review
15:41:49 <aphillip> ... but this one was just something that I turned into an issue
15:41:56 <aphillip> ... somebody could raise to issue status
15:42:27 <aphillip> richard: lots and lots tho'
15:42:35 <aphillip> ... or could create a table or list
15:43:12 <aphillip> addison: using issues makes easy to track
15:43:34 <aphillip> richard: will it cause problems since it mixes formal issues from informal issues
15:44:10 <aphillip> richard: who should we address these issues to? what list?
15:44:18 <aphillip> ... so far tracked on public-i18n-core@
15:44:30 <aphillip> ... html one went to www-international@
15:44:46 <aphillip> ... but also raised on html@
15:45:07 <aphillip> ... some visual confusion issues
15:45:54 <aphillip> addison: public general purpose issues on winter but WG issues on public?
15:49:29 <aphillip> ... or *also* on public?
15:50:12 <aphillip> addison: try for awhile---raising as issues in tracker when we see a thread of interest
15:50:15 <aphillip> ?
15:51:34 <dydz> dydz has joined #i18n
15:51:57 <aphillip> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:51:57 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/03/23-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
15:52:20 <aphillip> richard: (gives example)
15:53:13 <aphillip> addison: need to track WG issues because we'll be asked if we're satisfied
15:54:01 <aphillip> richard: only track on our own?
15:54:18 <aphillip> ... but better to inject our tracker issue # into actual discussion so that it captures the thread
15:55:39 <aphillip> richard: two products for any spec... one for formal comments and one for any other issues
15:55:52 <aphillip> ... may copy same lists but otherwise distinguish
15:56:29 <aphillip> addison: acks kenny
15:56:42 <aphillip> kenny: next week
15:56:49 <aphillip> Topic: AOB?
15:57:32 <aphillip> regrets next week: richard
15:57:37 <aphillip> regrets coming for david
15:57:57 <Zakim> -Addison_Phillips
15:57:58 <Zakim> -kojiishi
15:57:59 <Zakim> -David
15:58:01 <Zakim> -felix-again
15:58:04 <Zakim> -fsasaki
15:58:04 <Zakim> -Richard
15:58:06 <aphillip> rrsagent, make minutes
15:58:06 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/03/23-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
15:58:14 <andrewc> andrewc has left #i18n
15:58:20 <Zakim> -matial
15:58:44 <aphillip> zakim, who is here?
15:58:44 <Zakim> On the phone I see kennyluck
15:58:45 <Zakim> On IRC I see dydz, kojiishi, r12a, RRSAgent, Zakim, aphillip, kennyluck, trackbot
15:58:50 <Zakim> -kennyluck
15:58:51 <Zakim> I18N_CoreWG()11:00AM has ended
15:58:52 <Zakim> Attendees were Richard, Addison_Phillips, kennyluck, matial, +972.7.474.6aaaa, felix, fsasaki, aharon, kojiishi, +44.141.888.aabb, felix-again, David
16:01:04 <aphillip> Present: Addison, Richard, Felix, Mati, Kenny, Koji, Andrew, Aharon, David
16:01:10 <aphillip> rrsagent, make minutes
16:01:10 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/03/23-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
16:01:13 <aphillip> zakim, bye
16:01:13 <Zakim> Zakim has left #i18n
16:01:18 <aphillip> rrsagent, bye
16:01:18 <RRSAgent> I see 3 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2011/03/23-i18n-actions.rdf :
16:01:18 <RRSAgent> ACTION: all: review the proposed new version of language preferences and send comments to public-i18n@ [1]
16:01:18 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/03/23-i18n-irc#T15-14-10
16:01:18 <RRSAgent> ACTION: addison: send note to html wg saying "no objection" is our official position on issue 17 [2]
16:01:18 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/03/23-i18n-irc#T15-21-59
16:01:18 <RRSAgent> ACTION: addison: write a response on issue 88 indicating our support for the decision [3]
16:01:18 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/03/23-i18n-irc#T15-38-32