IRC log of forms on 2011-03-23

Timestamps are in UTC.

15:02:44 [RRSAgent]

RRSAgent has joined #forms

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logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/03/23-forms-irc

15:02:46 [trackbot]

RRSAgent, make logs public

15:02:47 [Zakim]

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Zakim, this will be IA_XForms

15:02:49 [trackbot]

Meeting: Forms Working Group Teleconference

15:02:49 [trackbot]

Date: 23 March 2011

15:02:53 [nick]

zaki, code?

15:03:00 [nick]

zakim, code?

15:03:02 [Zakim]

ok, trackbot, I see IA_XForms()11:00AM already started

15:03:16 [Zakim]

the conference code is 93676 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), nick

15:03:22 [Zakim]

+ +44.782.483.aabb

15:04:15 [klotz]

zakim, who is here?

15:04:23 [pfennell]

pfennell has joined #forms

15:04:37 [Zakim]

+Nick_van_den_Bleeken

15:04:47 [Zakim]

On the phone I see [IPcaller], Leigh_Klotz, +1.443.837.aaaa, +44.782.483.aabb, Nick_van_den_Bleeken

15:05:10 [nick]

scribe:nick

15:05:18 [Zakim]

On IRC I see pfennell, Zakim, RRSAgent, klotz, alain, nick, trackbot

15:06:45 [nick]

Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2011Mar/0023.html

15:07:01 [nick]

Regrets: Steven, John

15:08:44 [nick]

TOPIC: Off-line XForms

15:09:06 [ebruchez]

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15:09:26 [Zakim]

+ +1.952.931.aacc

15:09:31 [nick]

alain: I was thinking of XFoms in off line mode (in relation with XML Prague)

15:10:12 [Zakim]

+ +1.650.919.aadd

15:10:13 [nick]

alain: I was searching for a good example for showcasing off line forms

15:10:40 [ebruchez]

zakim, +1.650.919.aadd is ebruchez

15:10:40 [Zakim]

+ebruchez; got it

15:11:18 [nick]

klotz: maybe a configuration editor

15:11:40 [nick]

pfennell: Maybe you could have a look at HTML5 storage

15:12:24 [nick]

alain: Picking a file, editing it and storing it on disk with be a good example

15:12:39 [nick]

zakim, mute me

15:12:39 [Zakim]

Nick_van_den_Bleeken should now be muted

15:13:00 [nick]

Dan: Have you seen the checkbox tree

15:13:05 [nick]

zakim, unmute me

15:13:05 [Zakim]

Nick_van_den_Bleeken should no longer be muted

15:14:42 [nick]

Dan: Alain would you like to generate the form frwom the instance data

15:15:03 [nick]

alain: no just a form that could be used off-line

15:16:15 [nick]

pfennell: alain have you given any thought to the file upload in XSLTForms

15:16:31 [nick]

alain: it is possible now, I added a java jar to do the upload

15:16:55 [klotz]

http://www.xmldatasets.net/XF2/stratmlxform3.xml

15:18:19 [nick]

klotz: You may have a look at http://www.xmldatasets.net/XF2/stratmlxform3.xml

15:19:45 [nick]

TOPIC: Some interesting work on data-driven documents

15:19:54 [klotz]

http://mbostock.github.com/d3/

15:19:54 [nick]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2011Mar/0019.html

15:20:22 [nick]

klotz: D3 allows you to bind arbitrary data to a Document Object Model (DOM), and then apply data-driven transformations to the document.

15:20:48 [nick]

pfennell: Is it completely in javascript using JSON?

15:21:05 [nick]

klotz: It binds to DOM

15:21:47 [nick]

TOPIC: Submission Retries

15:21:54 [nick]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2011Mar/0017.html

15:23:41 [nick]

ebruchez: In our case it is currently about the reliable communication between the client and the server, supporting retries and not rerunning already received requests that got lost

15:25:34 [nick]

ebruchez: Leigh suggested that the same strategy can be used for submission, I didn't fully considered this, in our case we are in full control of both the client and the server, on the other hand for submission that may not be the case if you submit to an external server.

15:26:30 [nick]

klotz: The sequence number is it only between client and server or is it also for the submission

15:26:42 [nick]

ebruchez: no, it is only between the client and the server

15:26:50 [nick]

pfennell: Is it an ETag

15:27:10 [nick]

ebruchez: No, it isn't a hash of the data it is just a sequence number

15:29:57 [nick]

klotz: When you have multiple asynchronous submissions, you don't know which submission you get the completion event from (they could return out of order). You have to put something special in the user data. Maybe we could add something that could be added to the submission to track it

15:30:12 [nick]

pfennell: a submission transaction

15:30:34 [nick]

klotz: we have an event() function to get extra info back

15:30:51 [nick]

alain: XSLTForms has the event() function

15:31:34 [nick]

pfennell: can you access the headers using the event() function

15:31:40 [nick]

klotz: yes, you can

15:32:58 [nick]

klotz: somebody should have a look what extra event-context so you can distinguish the completion events (match them to the original request)

15:34:30 [nick]

pfennell: It seems that it has to generated at a level lower then the user

15:35:12 [Zakim]

- +44.782.483.aabb

15:35:26 [nick]

klotz: Not necessary you could generate it yourself, or it could already be available, you just have to be careful to keep it unique

15:35:41 [Zakim]

+ +44.782.483.aaee

15:36:25 [nick]

klotz: It could be an attribute on submission

15:38:04 [nick]

pfennell: It could be hard to create generator in the form, maybe you should be able to override it

15:39:19 [nick]

s/pfennell/Kurt/

15:40:10 [nick]

ACTION: klotz to write up a text in the wiki to be match asynchrounous submissions

15:40:10 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-1785 - Write up a text in the wiki to be match asynchrounous submissions [on Leigh Klotz, Jr. - due 2011-03-30].

15:40:57 [nick]

TOPIC: Configurable delay for incremental

15:41:12 [klotz]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2011Mar/att-0015/2011-03-16.html#topic9

15:41:59 [nick]

klotz: ebruchez said "Recap: Maybe I'm wrong but it's clear to me that the specification doesn't require an event for every keystroke: you don't have to tab out. For us, you need two delays: (1) while the user is typing you get an event every 1-2 seconds and (2) if you type quickly and stop typing, dispatch an event. You notify the application regularly. If you want keystroke you should listen for keydown events. Given this, I'm wondering what @delay would do.

15:42:00 [nick]

the need for delay preventing dispatching every keystroke."

15:42:19 [nick]

klotz: maybe it just do that already today with delay

15:42:34 [klotz]

Last week Erik said this: "Erik Bruchez: Recap: Maybe I'm wrong but it's clear to me that the specification doesn't require an event for every keystroke: you don't have to tab out. For us, you need two delays: (1) while the user is typing you get an event every 1-2 seconds and (2) if you type quickly and stop typing, dispatch an event. You notify the application regularly. If you want keystroke you should listen for keydown events. Given this, I'm wondering w

15:42:34 [klotz]

hat @delay would do. It might go too far. I don't see the need for delay preventing dispatching every keystroke."

15:43:34 [nick]

ebruchez: I didn't understand the problem because the spec doesn't mandate that an event is sent on every keystroke. The implementation could be smart when sending the events

15:46:31 [nick]

ebruchez: We don't dispatch the event on every keystroke. An event should be dispatched when the user stops typing, but events could be send while typing when he is typing more then a few characters

15:47:38 [nick]

klotz: Eriks algorithm doesn't takes into account the time it takes to process an action

15:47:56 [nick]

klotz: events may queue up when the actions run for a long time

15:49:10 [nick]

ebruchez: external submits could take a long time but the author could not send new submissions until the last one is done

15:49:40 [nick]

ebruchez: is clarification needed in the spec?

15:50:18 [nick]

klotz: I could write up the use cases and the solutions without the extra timing attributes

15:51:05 [klotz]

nick please give me the action to write up the use cases including xslt and implementation changes .

15:51:14 [nick]

klotz: If you want to listen for keystrokes, just listen to the DOM events as ebruchez suggested

15:52:12 [nick]

ACTION: klotz to write up a message about the use cases for the timing events on incremental input

15:52:12 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-1786 - Write up a message about the use cases for the timing events on incremental input [on Leigh Klotz, Jr. - due 2011-03-30].

15:52:38 [nick]

TOPIC TEI

15:54:10 [nick]

pfennell: We used XSLTForms and an extension for annotation in a text area

15:54:54 [nick]

pfennell: we configured FCKEditor for that

15:55:34 [nick]

klotz: Are you talking about allowing to add bold, italic,... to text ranges

15:55:57 [nick]

pfennell: I want a standard way to configure the function keys and buttons on the toolbars

15:56:36 [nick]

klotz: Please write it up as message

15:58:49 [nick]

kurt: It is related to RDF-A too

15:59:42 [nick]

pfennell: we are now over 6 groups that came up with a different configuration system

16:02:37 [Zakim]

-ebruchez

16:02:38 [Zakim]

-Leigh_Klotz

16:02:39 [Zakim]

- +1.952.931.aacc

16:02:41 [Zakim]

-[IPcaller]

16:02:41 [Zakim]

- +1.443.837.aaaa

16:02:44 [Zakim]

-Nick_van_den_Bleeken

16:02:45 [Zakim]

- +44.782.483.aaee

16:02:47 [Zakim]

IA_XForms()11:00AM has ended

16:02:48 [Zakim]

Attendees were [IPcaller], Leigh_Klotz, +1.443.837.aaaa, +44.782.483.aabb, Nick_van_den_Bleeken, +1.952.931.aacc, ebruchez, +44.782.483.aaee

16:02:57 [klotz]

ACTION: Dan McCreary to write up message about annotation configuration for textarea.

16:02:57 [trackbot]

Sorry, couldn't find user - Dan

16:03:13 [klotz]

ACTION: dMcCreary to write up message about annotation configuration for textarea.

16:03:13 [trackbot]

Sorry, couldn't find user - dMcCreary

16:03:19 [alain]

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16:03:30 [klotz]

thank you nick

16:04:37 [nick]

ACTION: dan mcqueary to write up a message about configuring TEI annotations in XForms

16:04:37 [trackbot]

Sorry, couldn't find user - dan

16:04:56 [nick]

ACTION: mcqueary to write up a message about configuring TEI annotations in XForms

16:04:56 [trackbot]

Sorry, couldn't find user - mcqueary

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16:18:43 [klotz]

rrsagent, make minutes

16:18:43 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/03/23-forms-minutes.html klotz

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