15:02:44 RRSAgent has joined #forms 15:02:44 logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/03/23-forms-irc 15:02:46 RRSAgent, make logs public 15:02:47 Zakim has joined #forms 15:02:48 Zakim, this will be IA_XForms 15:02:49 Meeting: Forms Working Group Teleconference 15:02:49 Date: 23 March 2011 15:02:53 zaki, code? 15:03:00 zakim, code? 15:03:02 ok, trackbot, I see IA_XForms()11:00AM already started 15:03:16 the conference code is 93676 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), nick 15:03:22 + +44.782.483.aabb 15:04:15 zakim, who is here? 15:04:23 pfennell has joined #forms 15:04:37 +Nick_van_den_Bleeken 15:04:47 On the phone I see [IPcaller], Leigh_Klotz, +1.443.837.aaaa, +44.782.483.aabb, Nick_van_den_Bleeken 15:05:10 scribe:nick 15:05:18 On IRC I see pfennell, Zakim, RRSAgent, klotz, alain, nick, trackbot 15:06:45 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2011Mar/0023.html 15:07:01 Regrets: Steven, John 15:08:44 TOPIC: Off-line XForms 15:09:06 ebruchez has joined #forms 15:09:26 + +1.952.931.aacc 15:09:31 alain: I was thinking of XFoms in off line mode (in relation with XML Prague) 15:10:12 + +1.650.919.aadd 15:10:13 alain: I was searching for a good example for showcasing off line forms 15:10:40 zakim, +1.650.919.aadd is ebruchez 15:10:40 +ebruchez; got it 15:11:18 klotz: maybe a configuration editor 15:11:40 pfennell: Maybe you could have a look at HTML5 storage 15:12:24 alain: Picking a file, editing it and storing it on disk with be a good example 15:12:39 zakim, mute me 15:12:39 Nick_van_den_Bleeken should now be muted 15:13:00 Dan: Have you seen the checkbox tree 15:13:05 zakim, unmute me 15:13:05 Nick_van_den_Bleeken should no longer be muted 15:14:42 Dan: Alain would you like to generate the form frwom the instance data 15:15:03 alain: no just a form that could be used off-line 15:16:15 pfennell: alain have you given any thought to the file upload in XSLTForms 15:16:31 alain: it is possible now, I added a java jar to do the upload 15:16:55 http://www.xmldatasets.net/XF2/stratmlxform3.xml 15:18:19 klotz: You may have a look at http://www.xmldatasets.net/XF2/stratmlxform3.xml 15:19:45 TOPIC: Some interesting work on data-driven documents 15:19:54 http://mbostock.github.com/d3/ 15:19:54 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2011Mar/0019.html 15:20:22 klotz: D3 allows you to bind arbitrary data to a Document Object Model (DOM), and then apply data-driven transformations to the document. 15:20:48 pfennell: Is it completely in javascript using JSON? 15:21:05 klotz: It binds to DOM 15:21:47 TOPIC: Submission Retries 15:21:54 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2011Mar/0017.html 15:23:41 ebruchez: In our case it is currently about the reliable communication between the client and the server, supporting retries and not rerunning already received requests that got lost 15:25:34 ebruchez: Leigh suggested that the same strategy can be used for submission, I didn't fully considered this, in our case we are in full control of both the client and the server, on the other hand for submission that may not be the case if you submit to an external server. 15:26:30 klotz: The sequence number is it only between client and server or is it also for the submission 15:26:42 ebruchez: no, it is only between the client and the server 15:26:50 pfennell: Is it an ETag 15:27:10 ebruchez: No, it isn't a hash of the data it is just a sequence number 15:29:57 klotz: When you have multiple asynchronous submissions, you don't know which submission you get the completion event from (they could return out of order). You have to put something special in the user data. Maybe we could add something that could be added to the submission to track it 15:30:12 pfennell: a submission transaction 15:30:34 klotz: we have an event() function to get extra info back 15:30:51 alain: XSLTForms has the event() function 15:31:34 pfennell: can you access the headers using the event() function 15:31:40 klotz: yes, you can 15:32:58 klotz: somebody should have a look what extra event-context so you can distinguish the completion events (match them to the original request) 15:34:30 pfennell: It seems that it has to generated at a level lower then the user 15:35:12 - +44.782.483.aabb 15:35:26 klotz: Not necessary you could generate it yourself, or it could already be available, you just have to be careful to keep it unique 15:35:41 + +44.782.483.aaee 15:36:25 klotz: It could be an attribute on submission 15:38:04 pfennell: It could be hard to create generator in the form, maybe you should be able to override it 15:39:19 s/pfennell/Kurt/ 15:40:10 ACTION: klotz to write up a text in the wiki to be match asynchrounous submissions 15:40:10 Created ACTION-1785 - Write up a text in the wiki to be match asynchrounous submissions [on Leigh Klotz, Jr. - due 2011-03-30]. 15:40:57 TOPIC: Configurable delay for incremental 15:41:12 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2011Mar/att-0015/2011-03-16.html#topic9 15:41:59 klotz: ebruchez said "Recap: Maybe I'm wrong but it's clear to me that the specification doesn't require an event for every keystroke: you don't have to tab out. For us, you need two delays: (1) while the user is typing you get an event every 1-2 seconds and (2) if you type quickly and stop typing, dispatch an event. You notify the application regularly. If you want keystroke you should listen for keydown events. Given this, I'm wondering what @delay would do. 15:42:00 the need for delay preventing dispatching every keystroke." 15:42:19 klotz: maybe it just do that already today with delay 15:42:34 Last week Erik said this: "Erik Bruchez: Recap: Maybe I'm wrong but it's clear to me that the specification doesn't require an event for every keystroke: you don't have to tab out. For us, you need two delays: (1) while the user is typing you get an event every 1-2 seconds and (2) if you type quickly and stop typing, dispatch an event. You notify the application regularly. If you want keystroke you should listen for keydown events. Given this, I'm wondering w 15:42:34 hat @delay would do. It might go too far. I don't see the need for delay preventing dispatching every keystroke." 15:43:34 ebruchez: I didn't understand the problem because the spec doesn't mandate that an event is sent on every keystroke. The implementation could be smart when sending the events 15:46:31 ebruchez: We don't dispatch the event on every keystroke. An event should be dispatched when the user stops typing, but events could be send while typing when he is typing more then a few characters 15:47:38 klotz: Eriks algorithm doesn't takes into account the time it takes to process an action 15:47:56 klotz: events may queue up when the actions run for a long time 15:49:10 ebruchez: external submits could take a long time but the author could not send new submissions until the last one is done 15:49:40 ebruchez: is clarification needed in the spec? 15:50:18 klotz: I could write up the use cases and the solutions without the extra timing attributes 15:51:05 nick please give me the action to write up the use cases including xslt and implementation changes . 15:51:14 klotz: If you want to listen for keystrokes, just listen to the DOM events as ebruchez suggested 15:52:12 ACTION: klotz to write up a message about the use cases for the timing events on incremental input 15:52:12 Created ACTION-1786 - Write up a message about the use cases for the timing events on incremental input [on Leigh Klotz, Jr. - due 2011-03-30]. 15:52:38 TOPIC TEI 15:54:10 pfennell: We used XSLTForms and an extension for annotation in a text area 15:54:54 pfennell: we configured FCKEditor for that 15:55:34 klotz: Are you talking about allowing to add bold, italic,... to text ranges 15:55:57 pfennell: I want a standard way to configure the function keys and buttons on the toolbars 15:56:36 klotz: Please write it up as message 15:58:49 kurt: It is related to RDF-A too 15:59:42 pfennell: we are now over 6 groups that came up with a different configuration system 16:02:37 -ebruchez 16:02:38 -Leigh_Klotz 16:02:39 - +1.952.931.aacc 16:02:41 -[IPcaller] 16:02:41 - +1.443.837.aaaa 16:02:44 -Nick_van_den_Bleeken 16:02:45 - +44.782.483.aaee 16:02:47 IA_XForms()11:00AM has ended 16:02:48 Attendees were [IPcaller], Leigh_Klotz, +1.443.837.aaaa, +44.782.483.aabb, Nick_van_den_Bleeken, +1.952.931.aacc, ebruchez, +44.782.483.aaee 16:02:57 ACTION: Dan McCreary to write up message about annotation configuration for textarea. 16:02:57 Sorry, couldn't find user - Dan 16:03:13 ACTION: dMcCreary to write up message about annotation configuration for textarea. 16:03:13 Sorry, couldn't find user - dMcCreary 16:03:19 alain has left #forms 16:03:30 thank you nick 16:04:37 ACTION: dan mcqueary to write up a message about configuring TEI annotations in XForms 16:04:37 Sorry, couldn't find user - dan 16:04:56 ACTION: mcqueary to write up a message about configuring TEI annotations in XForms 16:04:56 Sorry, couldn't find user - mcqueary 16:07:21 unl has joined #forms 16:18:43 rrsagent, make minutes 16:18:43 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/03/23-forms-minutes.html klotz 17:17:04 nick has joined #forms 17:20:34 Zakim has left #forms 17:40:28 nick has joined #forms