13:26:54 RRSAgent has joined #er 13:26:54 logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/03/23-er-irc 13:26:56 RRSAgent, make logs public 13:26:58 Zakim, this will be 3794 13:26:58 ok, trackbot; I see WAI_ERTWG()9:30AM scheduled to start in 4 minutes 13:26:59 Meeting: Evaluation and Repair Tools Working Group Teleconference 13:26:59 Date: 23 March 2011 13:27:05 Zakim, you are still drowsy, he? 13:27:05 I don't understand your question, cstrobbe. 13:27:11 :) 13:27:15 That is so typical 13:29:49 agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-ert/2011Mar/0004.html 13:30:02 WAI_ERTWG()9:30AM has now started 13:30:09 +Christophe_Strobbe 13:31:00 zakim, that was really smart: "I do not see a conference named 'the end of your siesta' in progress or scheduled at this time" 13:31:00 I don't understand you, cstrobbe 13:31:07 Whatever. 13:31:14 +??P32 13:31:15 agenda+ Welcome 13:31:15 agenda+ Updated issues lists 13:31:15 agenda+ EARL 1.0 Schema Software Class 13:31:15 agenda+ Conformance (general) 13:31:15 agenda+ HTTP-in-RDF Message Class 13:31:16 agenda+ HTTP-in-RDF Message Class 13:31:18 agenda+ HTTP-in-RDF Message Class 13:31:20 agenda+ Content-in-RDF Content Class 13:31:22 agenda+ Upcoming meeting schedule 13:31:56 +Shadi 13:32:12 zakim, ? is philip_ 13:32:12 +philip_; got it 13:33:11 kvotis has joined #er 13:34:00 +??P34 13:34:19 zakim, ? is CarlosV 13:34:19 +CarlosV; got it 13:35:32 carlosV has joined #er 13:35:33 zakim, take up agendum 1 13:35:33 agendum 1. "Welcome" taken up [from shadi] 13:35:36 http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/members 13:36:14 regrets: Rui 13:36:37 + +30231125aaaa 13:36:58 zakim, aaaa is kvotis 13:36:58 +kvotis; got it 13:37:48 scribe: cstrobbe 13:37:50 zakim, list agenda 13:37:50 I see 9 items remaining on the agenda: 13:37:52 1. Welcome [from shadi] 13:37:52 2. Updated issues lists [from shadi] 13:37:53 3. EARL 1.0 Schema Software Class [from shadi] 13:37:55 4. Conformance (general) [from shadi] 13:37:57 5. HTTP-in-RDF Message Class [from shadi] 13:37:58 6. HTTP-in-RDF Message Class [from shadi] 13:38:00 7. HTTP-in-RDF Message Class [from shadi] 13:38:02 8. Content-in-RDF Content Class [from shadi] 13:38:03 9. Upcoming meeting schedule [from shadi] 13:38:11 zakim, take up agendum 1 13:38:11 agendum 1. "Welcome" taken up [from shadi] 13:38:44 Shadi: (something off the record) 13:40:02 zakim, take up next 13:40:02 agendum 2. "Updated issues lists" taken up [from shadi] 13:40:22 - 13:40:22 - 13:40:22 - 13:40:22 - 13:40:22 - 13:40:51 Shadi: fairly elaborate issue list; for each section of the document; some issues still open 13:41:29 Shadi: open issues: many of them editorial or fairly simple 13:41:56 Shadi: If you have additional issues or comments, please bring them in 13:42:09 Shadi: Issues list also contains proposals 13:42:14 CarlosV: How proceed? 13:42:40 Shadi: Taking the most substantial comments first: see agenda. 13:43:05 Shadi: This week and next: address most substantial comments. Then go document by document. 13:43:39 CarlosV: not sure if I have latest editor's draft 13:43:47 http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/#deliv 13:44:16 Shadi: http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/#deliv uses lists all drafts. Any later drafts? 13:44:41 CarlosV: Content & HTTP: not sure? 13:44:52 action: SAZ confirm http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/#deliv has the latest links 13:44:52 Sorry, couldn't find user - SAZ 13:45:45 Shadi: Issue with Schema spec: two version: 2006 and 2008. There is also a recorded issue for this. Talked to Johannes before he left; sorted out draft. 13:46:04 CarlosV: Create a redirect from the 2006 version? 13:46:13 Shadi: Could be done; first check what best way is. 13:46:41 Shadi: Check the issues list again to see if anything is missing. 13:47:38 zakim, take up next 13:47:38 agendum 3. "EARL 1.0 Schema Software Class" taken up [from shadi] 13:48:08 http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/EARL10/issues#Software 13:48:21 http://www.w3.org/TR/2009/WD-EARL10-Schema-20091029/#Software 13:48:30 Shadi: some issues related to EARL software class. 13:49:09 Shadi: 2nd link: section 2.8: describe software that could be an evaluator ((semi)-automated tool). 13:49:43 Shadi: first issue: Dublin Core: dct:hasversion: incorrect use 13:49:56 http://trac.usefulinc.com/doap 13:50:05 Shadi: Also: should we be using DOAP to describe software? 13:50:20 Shadi: DOAP is another RDF voc to describe software; used by Apache 13:51:11 Shadi: got some comments in support of using DOAP. CarlosV, what is your current take? 13:51:50 CarlosV: Use by Apache project. Others: some projects on SourceForge and elsewhere. Some automatic generation. Looks pretty stable. 13:52:21 Shadi: Need to decide if DOAP can be used instead of current Software class. Can it represent what we need, eg title, description. 13:52:54 Shadi: Next thing: dependency, as with DC and FOAF, or use our own vocabulary? 13:53:34 CarlosV: Looked at it during last discussions. No changes since 2008, so looks stable. 13:53:53 CarlosV: No changes in vocabulary since 2009. 13:54:11 Shadi: CarlosV and Philip look at DOAP and work on proposal? 13:55:20 action: carlosv and philip to provide a proposal on DOAP class(es) and properties to relpace the current earl:Software class 13:55:20 Created ACTION-115 - And philip to provide a proposal on DOAP class(es) and properties to relpace the current earl:Software class [on Carlos A. Velasco - due 2011-03-30]. 13:56:16 Kostas: Good to use DOAP. 13:56:25 zakim, take up next 13:56:25 agendum 4. "Conformance (general)" taken up [from shadi] 13:56:52 Shadi: Conformance has been ongoing issue. 13:57:22 Shadi: We're coming from a very XML-centric approach - syntax and how tools would use/process the syntax. 13:57:37 Shadi: However, Semantic Web people look more at vocabulary. 13:57:53 Shadi: We keep getting comments from them. 13:58:30 Shadi: EARL Schema and HTTP-in-RDF: describing the conformance reqs differently: syntactic and semantic approaches. 13:58:45 Shadi: good comments from Dominique H-M and Dan Connolly. 13:59:30 Shadi: For example, consider conformance in a separate document. Separate what EARL reports should look like from the vocabulary document. 14:00:05 Shadi: That could then be put together in the EARL Guide: describe what we expect from tools that create EARL, from EARL reports, and from tools that process EARL. 14:00:51 CarlosV: The spec should also contain requirements for conformance; Guide is more like a tutorial. 14:01:17 Carlos: Separate note? 14:02:07 Shadi: If we understand Guide as the procedural guidance for tool builders... 14:02:26 Shadi: Dom's suggestion was specifically about EARL reports. 14:03:36 Shadi: Having conformance outside Voc document. Semantic Web people ... e.g. DOAP: we use only part of it. There would be a continual conflict between our use of DOAP and DOAP itself. 14:03:54 http://www.w3.org/TR/2009/WD-EARL10-Schema-20091029/#reports 14:04:16 Shadi: Guide would then mainly be for a11y tool developers about how to use the spec in a useful way. 14:05:55 Philip: Could be good to separate it from the spec itself. (...) 14:06:30 Kostas: We also need to have something about conformance in the spec itself. 14:07:31 Shadi: Taking your example of Assertor and Assertion (each Assertion - one Assertor) : makes sense in our context. Some of the context we get think outside of the box, outside accessibility evaluation. 14:07:43 kvotis has joined #er 14:08:30 Shadi: Making the conformance section should be short and refer tool developer to the other document / the Guide. 14:09:58 Shadi: Have a careful look at the conformance section and the related issues; see how best to address them. Other suggestions are welcome. Have resolution next time. 14:10:53 action: shadi to send an e-mail on the particular issue of conformance, with a suggested resolution, for people to review by next meeting 14:10:53 Created ACTION-116 - Send an e-mail on the particular issue of conformance, with a suggested resolution, for people to review by next meeting [on Shadi Abou-Zahra - due 2011-03-30]. 14:11:04 kvotis has joined #er 14:11:38 zakim, take up next 14:11:38 agendum 5. "HTTP-in-RDF Message Class" taken up [from shadi] 14:11:54 http://www.w3.org/TR/2009/WD-HTTP-in-RDF10-20091029/#MessageClass 14:12:08 http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/HTTP/issues#MessageClass 14:13:43 Shadi: Some things not very explicit (?) in HTTP 14:15:23 Shadi: Two approaches re entity class (not in HTTP protocol): (1) remodel slightly and include entity concept/class; (2) Johannes' proposal to use messageHeader class 14:16:59 Shadi: Solution looks simple and effective; not sure what to do wit this. 14:17:11 Johannes' proposal: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-ert/2010Mar/0007.html 14:17:45 Shadi: Should be written up a bit more clearly. 14:19:14 CarlosV: entities could be part of header? 14:20:12 Shadi: One of the issues re conformance: every message class needs to have a HTTP property; because of request and response sequences. 14:20:34 Shadi: An entity is basically an ... without an HTTP version 14:20:48 Shadi: argument to put conformance outside EARL spec. 14:21:32 Shadi: Also: just one class for MessageHeader in HTTP voc, but there are different types of headers. Johannes' proposal would break this down into different classes. 14:22:18 Shadi: Write up clearer version of Johannes' proposal. Volunteers? 14:22:55 action: shadi to write up specific proposal with changes to the HTTP-in-RDF vocabulary to resolve the "Entity" modelling issue 14:22:56 Created ACTION-117 - Write up specific proposal with changes to the HTTP-in-RDF vocabulary to resolve the "Entity" modelling issue [on Shadi Abou-Zahra - due 2011-03-30]. 14:23:35 zakim, take up next 14:23:35 agendum 6. "HTTP-in-RDF Message Class" taken up [from shadi] 14:23:55 http://www.w3.org/TR/2009/WD-HTTP-in-RDF10-20091029/#MethodClass 14:24:34 Shadi: 8 methods supported by HTTP 1.1 14:25:02 Shadi: one more method has been adopted in RFC 5789: method PATCH 14:25:13 http://www.w3.org/2008/http-methods 14:25:24 Shadi: So we need to add this to the RDF. 14:25:50 Shadi: should be straightforward change. Accept this? 14:26:00 CarlosV: OK. 14:26:12 Shadi: No objections? 14:26:21 RESOLUTION: add PATCH method to the HTTP-in-RDF Method class 14:26:35 http://www.w3.org/2008/http-methods 14:26:46 Shadi: someone take action item to add it? 14:28:21 RFC 5789: PATCH Method for HTTP: http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5789 14:29:19 action: philip to add PATCH description to the http-methods RDF http://www.w3.org/2008/http-methods 14:29:19 Created ACTION-118 - Add PATCH description to the http-methods RDF http://www.w3.org/2008/http-methods [on Philip Ackermann - due 2011-03-30]. 14:29:41 http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/tracker/ 14:30:09 Shadi: You can go to http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/tracker/ to see the currently open issues and action items. 14:30:16 http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/tracker/actions/open 14:30:32 zakim, take up next 14:30:32 agendum 7. "HTTP-in-RDF Message Class" taken up [from shadi] 14:30:47 zakim, take up agendum 9 14:30:47 agendum 9. "Upcoming meeting schedule" taken up [from shadi] 14:31:18 Shadi: no meeting next week; next meeting on 6 April (consensus) 14:31:46 -Christophe_Strobbe 14:31:47 -kvotis 14:31:49 -Shadi 14:31:53 Meeting closed. 14:32:00 -philip_ 14:32:00 WAI_ERTWG()9:30AM has ended 14:32:01 Attendees were Christophe_Strobbe, Shadi, philip_, CarlosV, +30231125aaaa, kvotis 14:32:34 trackbot, end meeting 14:32:34 Zakim, list attendees 14:32:34 sorry, trackbot, I don't know what conference this is 14:32:35 RRSAgent, please draft minutes 14:32:35 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/03/23-er-minutes.html trackbot 14:32:36 RRSAgent, bye 14:32:36 I see 5 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2011/03/23-er-actions.rdf : 14:32:36 ACTION: SAZ confirm http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/#deliv has the latest links [1] 14:32:36 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/03/23-er-irc#T13-44-52 14:32:36 ACTION: carlosv and philip to provide a proposal on DOAP class(es) and properties to relpace the current earl:Software class [2] 14:32:36 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/03/23-er-irc#T13-55-20 14:32:36 ACTION: shadi to send an e-mail on the particular issue of conformance, with a suggested resolution, for people to review by next meeting [3] 14:32:36 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/03/23-er-irc#T14-10-53 14:32:36 ACTION: shadi to write up specific proposal with changes to the HTTP-in-RDF vocabulary to resolve the "Entity" modelling issue [4] 14:32:36 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/03/23-er-irc#T14-22-55 14:32:36 ACTION: philip to add PATCH description to the http-methods RDF http://www.w3.org/2008/http-methods [5] 14:32:36 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/03/23-er-irc#T14-29-19