IRC log of er on 2011-03-23

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:26:54 [RRSAgent]

RRSAgent has joined #er

13:26:54 [RRSAgent]

logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/03/23-er-irc

13:26:56 [trackbot]

RRSAgent, make logs public

13:26:58 [trackbot]

Zakim, this will be 3794

13:26:58 [Zakim]

ok, trackbot; I see WAI_ERTWG()9:30AM scheduled to start in 4 minutes

13:26:59 [trackbot]

Meeting: Evaluation and Repair Tools Working Group Teleconference

13:26:59 [trackbot]

Date: 23 March 2011

13:27:05 [cstrobbe]

Zakim, you are still drowsy, he?

13:27:05 [Zakim]

I don't understand your question, cstrobbe.

13:27:11 [shadi]

:)

13:27:15 [cstrobbe]

That is so typical

13:29:49 [shadi]

agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-ert/2011Mar/0004.html

13:30:02 [Zakim]

WAI_ERTWG()9:30AM has now started

13:30:09 [Zakim]

+Christophe_Strobbe

13:31:00 [cstrobbe]

zakim, that was really smart: "I do not see a conference named 'the end of your siesta' in progress or scheduled at this time"

13:31:00 [Zakim]

I don't understand you, cstrobbe

13:31:07 [cstrobbe]

Whatever.

13:31:14 [Zakim]

+??P32

13:31:15 [shadi]

agenda+ Welcome

13:31:15 [shadi]

agenda+ Updated issues lists

13:31:15 [shadi]

agenda+ EARL 1.0 Schema Software Class

13:31:15 [shadi]

agenda+ Conformance (general)

13:31:15 [shadi]

agenda+ HTTP-in-RDF Message Class

13:31:16 [shadi]

agenda+ HTTP-in-RDF Message Class

13:31:18 [shadi]

agenda+ HTTP-in-RDF Message Class

13:31:20 [shadi]

agenda+ Content-in-RDF Content Class

13:31:22 [shadi]

agenda+ Upcoming meeting schedule

13:31:56 [Zakim]

+Shadi

13:32:12 [shadi]

zakim, ? is philip_

13:32:12 [Zakim]

+philip_; got it

13:33:11 [kvotis]

kvotis has joined #er

13:34:00 [Zakim]

+??P34

13:34:19 [shadi]

zakim, ? is CarlosV

13:34:19 [Zakim]

+CarlosV; got it

13:35:32 [carlosV]

carlosV has joined #er

13:35:33 [shadi]

zakim, take up agendum 1

13:35:33 [Zakim]

agendum 1. "Welcome" taken up [from shadi]

13:35:36 [shadi]

http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/members

13:36:14 [shadi]

regrets: Rui

13:36:37 [Zakim]

+ +30231125aaaa

13:36:58 [shadi]

zakim, aaaa is kvotis

13:36:58 [Zakim]

+kvotis; got it

13:37:48 [shadi]

scribe: cstrobbe

13:37:50 [cstrobbe]

zakim, list agenda

13:37:50 [Zakim]

I see 9 items remaining on the agenda:

13:37:52 [Zakim]

1. Welcome [from shadi]

13:37:52 [Zakim]

2. Updated issues lists [from shadi]

13:37:53 [Zakim]

3. EARL 1.0 Schema Software Class [from shadi]

13:37:55 [Zakim]

4. Conformance (general) [from shadi]

13:37:57 [Zakim]

5. HTTP-in-RDF Message Class [from shadi]

13:37:58 [Zakim]

6. HTTP-in-RDF Message Class [from shadi]

13:38:00 [Zakim]

7. HTTP-in-RDF Message Class [from shadi]

13:38:02 [Zakim]

8. Content-in-RDF Content Class [from shadi]

13:38:03 [Zakim]

9. Upcoming meeting schedule [from shadi]

13:38:11 [cstrobbe]

zakim, take up agendum 1

13:38:11 [Zakim]

agendum 1. "Welcome" taken up [from shadi]

13:38:44 [cstrobbe]

Shadi: (something off the record)

13:40:02 [shadi]

zakim, take up next

13:40:02 [Zakim]

agendum 2. "Updated issues lists" taken up [from shadi]

13:40:22 [shadi]

- <http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/EARL10/issues>

13:40:22 [shadi]

- <http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/EARL10/guide-issues>

13:40:22 [shadi]

- <http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/HTTP/issues>

13:40:22 [shadi]

- <http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/Content/issues>

13:40:22 [shadi]

- <http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/Pointers/issues>

13:40:51 [cstrobbe]

Shadi: fairly elaborate issue list; for each section of the document; some issues still open

13:41:29 [cstrobbe]

Shadi: open issues: many of them editorial or fairly simple

13:41:56 [cstrobbe]

Shadi: If you have additional issues or comments, please bring them in

13:42:09 [cstrobbe]

Shadi: Issues list also contains proposals

13:42:14 [cstrobbe]

CarlosV: How proceed?

13:42:40 [cstrobbe]

Shadi: Taking the most substantial comments first: see agenda.

13:43:05 [cstrobbe]

Shadi: This week and next: address most substantial comments. Then go document by document.

13:43:39 [cstrobbe]

CarlosV: not sure if I have latest editor's draft

13:43:47 [shadi]

http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/#deliv

13:44:16 [cstrobbe]

Shadi: http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/#deliv uses lists all drafts. Any later drafts?

13:44:41 [cstrobbe]

CarlosV: Content & HTTP: not sure?

13:44:52 [shadi]

action: SAZ confirm http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/#deliv has the latest links

13:44:52 [trackbot]

Sorry, couldn't find user - SAZ

13:45:45 [cstrobbe]

Shadi: Issue with Schema spec: two version: 2006 and 2008. There is also a recorded issue for this. Talked to Johannes before he left; sorted out draft.

13:46:04 [cstrobbe]

CarlosV: Create a redirect from the 2006 version?

13:46:13 [cstrobbe]

Shadi: Could be done; first check what best way is.

13:46:41 [cstrobbe]

Shadi: Check the issues list again to see if anything is missing.

13:47:38 [cstrobbe]

zakim, take up next

13:47:38 [Zakim]

agendum 3. "EARL 1.0 Schema Software Class" taken up [from shadi]

13:48:08 [shadi]

http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/EARL10/issues#Software

13:48:21 [shadi]

http://www.w3.org/TR/2009/WD-EARL10-Schema-20091029/#Software

13:48:30 [cstrobbe]

Shadi: some issues related to EARL software class.

13:49:09 [cstrobbe]

Shadi: 2nd link: section 2.8: describe software that could be an evaluator ((semi)-automated tool).

13:49:43 [cstrobbe]

Shadi: first issue: Dublin Core: dct:hasversion: incorrect use

13:49:56 [shadi]

http://trac.usefulinc.com/doap

13:50:05 [cstrobbe]

Shadi: Also: should we be using DOAP to describe software?

13:50:20 [cstrobbe]

Shadi: DOAP is another RDF voc to describe software; used by Apache

13:51:11 [cstrobbe]

Shadi: got some comments in support of using DOAP. CarlosV, what is your current take?

13:51:50 [cstrobbe]

CarlosV: Use by Apache project. Others: some projects on SourceForge and elsewhere. Some automatic generation. Looks pretty stable.

13:52:21 [cstrobbe]

Shadi: Need to decide if DOAP can be used instead of current Software class. Can it represent what we need, eg title, description.

13:52:54 [cstrobbe]

Shadi: Next thing: dependency, as with DC and FOAF, or use our own vocabulary?

13:53:34 [cstrobbe]

CarlosV: Looked at it during last discussions. No changes since 2008, so looks stable.

13:53:53 [cstrobbe]

CarlosV: No changes in vocabulary since 2009.

13:54:11 [cstrobbe]

Shadi: CarlosV and Philip look at DOAP and work on proposal?

13:55:20 [shadi]

action: carlosv and philip to provide a proposal on DOAP class(es) and properties to relpace the current earl:Software class

13:55:20 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-115 - And philip to provide a proposal on DOAP class(es) and properties to relpace the current earl:Software class [on Carlos A. Velasco - due 2011-03-30].

13:56:16 [cstrobbe]

Kostas: Good to use DOAP.

13:56:25 [cstrobbe]

zakim, take up next

13:56:25 [Zakim]

agendum 4. "Conformance (general)" taken up [from shadi]

13:56:52 [cstrobbe]

Shadi: Conformance has been ongoing issue.

13:57:22 [cstrobbe]

Shadi: We're coming from a very XML-centric approach - syntax and how tools would use/process the syntax.

13:57:37 [cstrobbe]

Shadi: However, Semantic Web people look more at vocabulary.

13:57:53 [cstrobbe]

Shadi: We keep getting comments from them.

13:58:30 [cstrobbe]

Shadi: EARL Schema and HTTP-in-RDF: describing the conformance reqs differently: syntactic and semantic approaches.

13:58:45 [cstrobbe]

Shadi: good comments from Dominique H-M and Dan Connolly.

13:59:30 [cstrobbe]

Shadi: For example, consider conformance in a separate document. Separate what EARL reports should look like from the vocabulary document.

14:00:05 [cstrobbe]

Shadi: That could then be put together in the EARL Guide: describe what we expect from tools that create EARL, from EARL reports, and from tools that process EARL.

14:00:51 [cstrobbe]

CarlosV: The spec should also contain requirements for conformance; Guide is more like a tutorial.

14:01:17 [cstrobbe]

Carlos: Separate note?

14:02:07 [cstrobbe]

Shadi: If we understand Guide as the procedural guidance for tool builders...

14:02:26 [cstrobbe]

Shadi: Dom's suggestion was specifically about EARL reports.

14:03:36 [cstrobbe]

Shadi: Having conformance outside Voc document. Semantic Web people ... e.g. DOAP: we use only part of it. There would be a continual conflict between our use of DOAP and DOAP itself.

14:03:54 [shadi]

http://www.w3.org/TR/2009/WD-EARL10-Schema-20091029/#reports

14:04:16 [cstrobbe]

Shadi: Guide would then mainly be for a11y tool developers about how to use the spec in a useful way.

14:05:55 [cstrobbe]

Philip: Could be good to separate it from the spec itself. (...)

14:06:30 [cstrobbe]

Kostas: We also need to have something about conformance in the spec itself.

14:07:31 [cstrobbe]

Shadi: Taking your example of Assertor and Assertion (each Assertion - one Assertor) : makes sense in our context. Some of the context we get think outside of the box, outside accessibility evaluation.

14:07:43 [kvotis]

kvotis has joined #er

14:08:30 [cstrobbe]

Shadi: Making the conformance section should be short and refer tool developer to the other document / the Guide.

14:09:58 [cstrobbe]

Shadi: Have a careful look at the conformance section and the related issues; see how best to address them. Other suggestions are welcome. Have resolution next time.

14:10:53 [shadi]

action: shadi to send an e-mail on the particular issue of conformance, with a suggested resolution, for people to review by next meeting

14:10:53 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-116 - Send an e-mail on the particular issue of conformance, with a suggested resolution, for people to review by next meeting [on Shadi Abou-Zahra - due 2011-03-30].

14:11:04 [kvotis]

kvotis has joined #er

14:11:38 [cstrobbe]

zakim, take up next

14:11:38 [Zakim]

agendum 5. "HTTP-in-RDF Message Class" taken up [from shadi]

14:11:54 [shadi]

http://www.w3.org/TR/2009/WD-HTTP-in-RDF10-20091029/#MessageClass

14:12:08 [shadi]

http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/HTTP/issues#MessageClass

14:13:43 [cstrobbe]

Shadi: Some things not very explicit (?) in HTTP

14:15:23 [cstrobbe]

Shadi: Two approaches re entity class (not in HTTP protocol): (1) remodel slightly and include entity concept/class; (2) Johannes' proposal to use messageHeader class

14:16:59 [cstrobbe]

Shadi: Solution looks simple and effective; not sure what to do wit this.

14:17:11 [cstrobbe]

Johannes' proposal: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-ert/2010Mar/0007.html

14:17:45 [cstrobbe]

Shadi: Should be written up a bit more clearly.

14:19:14 [cstrobbe]

CarlosV: entities could be part of header?

14:20:12 [cstrobbe]

Shadi: One of the issues re conformance: every message class needs to have a HTTP property; because of request and response sequences.

14:20:34 [cstrobbe]

Shadi: An entity is basically an ... without an HTTP version

14:20:48 [cstrobbe]

Shadi: argument to put conformance outside EARL spec.

14:21:32 [cstrobbe]

Shadi: Also: just one class for MessageHeader in HTTP voc, but there are different types of headers. Johannes' proposal would break this down into different classes.

14:22:18 [cstrobbe]

Shadi: Write up clearer version of Johannes' proposal. Volunteers?

14:22:55 [shadi]

action: shadi to write up specific proposal with changes to the HTTP-in-RDF vocabulary to resolve the "Entity" modelling issue

14:22:56 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-117 - Write up specific proposal with changes to the HTTP-in-RDF vocabulary to resolve the "Entity" modelling issue [on Shadi Abou-Zahra - due 2011-03-30].

14:23:35 [cstrobbe]

zakim, take up next

14:23:35 [Zakim]

agendum 6. "HTTP-in-RDF Message Class" taken up [from shadi]

14:23:55 [shadi]

http://www.w3.org/TR/2009/WD-HTTP-in-RDF10-20091029/#MethodClass

14:24:34 [cstrobbe]

Shadi: 8 methods supported by HTTP 1.1

14:25:02 [cstrobbe]

Shadi: one more method has been adopted in RFC 5789: method PATCH

14:25:13 [shadi]

http://www.w3.org/2008/http-methods

14:25:24 [cstrobbe]

Shadi: So we need to add this to the RDF.

14:25:50 [cstrobbe]

Shadi: should be straightforward change. Accept this?

14:26:00 [cstrobbe]

CarlosV: OK.

14:26:12 [cstrobbe]

Shadi: No objections?

14:26:21 [shadi]

RESOLUTION: add PATCH method to the HTTP-in-RDF Method class

14:26:35 [shadi]

http://www.w3.org/2008/http-methods

14:26:46 [cstrobbe]

Shadi: someone take action item to add it?

14:28:21 [cstrobbe]

RFC 5789: PATCH Method for HTTP: http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5789

14:29:19 [shadi]

action: philip to add PATCH description to the http-methods RDF http://www.w3.org/2008/http-methods

14:29:19 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-118 - Add PATCH description to the http-methods RDF http://www.w3.org/2008/http-methods [on Philip Ackermann - due 2011-03-30].

14:29:41 [shadi]

http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/tracker/

14:30:09 [cstrobbe]

Shadi: You can go to http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/tracker/ to see the currently open issues and action items.

14:30:16 [shadi]

http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/tracker/actions/open

14:30:32 [cstrobbe]

zakim, take up next

14:30:32 [Zakim]

agendum 7. "HTTP-in-RDF Message Class" taken up [from shadi]

14:30:47 [cstrobbe]

zakim, take up agendum 9

14:30:47 [Zakim]

agendum 9. "Upcoming meeting schedule" taken up [from shadi]

14:31:18 [cstrobbe]

Shadi: no meeting next week; next meeting on 6 April (consensus)

14:31:46 [Zakim]

-Christophe_Strobbe

14:31:47 [Zakim]

-kvotis

14:31:49 [Zakim]

-Shadi

14:31:53 [cstrobbe]

Meeting closed.

14:32:00 [Zakim]

-philip_

14:32:00 [Zakim]

WAI_ERTWG()9:30AM has ended

14:32:01 [Zakim]

Attendees were Christophe_Strobbe, Shadi, philip_, CarlosV, +30231125aaaa, kvotis

14:32:34 [shadi]

trackbot, end meeting

14:32:34 [trackbot]

Zakim, list attendees

14:32:34 [Zakim]

sorry, trackbot, I don't know what conference this is

14:32:35 [trackbot]

RRSAgent, please draft minutes

14:32:35 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/03/23-er-minutes.html trackbot

14:32:36 [trackbot]

RRSAgent, bye

14:32:36 [RRSAgent]

I see 5 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2011/03/23-er-actions.rdf :

14:32:36 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: SAZ confirm http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/#deliv has the latest links [1]

14:32:36 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/03/23-er-irc#T13-44-52

14:32:36 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: carlosv and philip to provide a proposal on DOAP class(es) and properties to relpace the current earl:Software class [2]

14:32:36 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/03/23-er-irc#T13-55-20

14:32:36 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: shadi to send an e-mail on the particular issue of conformance, with a suggested resolution, for people to review by next meeting [3]

14:32:36 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/03/23-er-irc#T14-10-53

14:32:36 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: shadi to write up specific proposal with changes to the HTTP-in-RDF vocabulary to resolve the "Entity" modelling issue [4]

14:32:36 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/03/23-er-irc#T14-22-55

14:32:36 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: philip to add PATCH description to the http-methods RDF http://www.w3.org/2008/http-methods [5]

14:32:36 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/03/23-er-irc#T14-29-19