IRC log of er on 2011-03-23

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:26:54 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #er
13:26:54 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/03/23-er-irc
13:26:56 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
13:26:58 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be 3794
13:26:58 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see WAI_ERTWG()9:30AM scheduled to start in 4 minutes
13:26:59 [trackbot]
Meeting: Evaluation and Repair Tools Working Group Teleconference
13:26:59 [trackbot]
Date: 23 March 2011
13:27:05 [cstrobbe]
Zakim, you are still drowsy, he?
13:27:05 [Zakim]
I don't understand your question, cstrobbe.
13:27:11 [shadi]
:)
13:27:15 [cstrobbe]
That is so typical
13:29:49 [shadi]
agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-ert/2011Mar/0004.html
13:30:02 [Zakim]
WAI_ERTWG()9:30AM has now started
13:30:09 [Zakim]
+Christophe_Strobbe
13:31:00 [cstrobbe]
zakim, that was really smart: "I do not see a conference named 'the end of your siesta' in progress or scheduled at this time"
13:31:00 [Zakim]
I don't understand you, cstrobbe
13:31:07 [cstrobbe]
Whatever.
13:31:14 [Zakim]
+??P32
13:31:15 [shadi]
agenda+ Welcome
13:31:15 [shadi]
agenda+ Updated issues lists
13:31:15 [shadi]
agenda+ EARL 1.0 Schema Software Class
13:31:15 [shadi]
agenda+ Conformance (general)
13:31:15 [shadi]
agenda+ HTTP-in-RDF Message Class
13:31:16 [shadi]
agenda+ HTTP-in-RDF Message Class
13:31:18 [shadi]
agenda+ HTTP-in-RDF Message Class
13:31:20 [shadi]
agenda+ Content-in-RDF Content Class
13:31:22 [shadi]
agenda+ Upcoming meeting schedule
13:31:56 [Zakim]
+Shadi
13:32:12 [shadi]
zakim, ? is philip_
13:32:12 [Zakim]
+philip_; got it
13:33:11 [kvotis]
kvotis has joined #er
13:34:00 [Zakim]
+??P34
13:34:19 [shadi]
zakim, ? is CarlosV
13:34:19 [Zakim]
+CarlosV; got it
13:35:32 [carlosV]
carlosV has joined #er
13:35:33 [shadi]
zakim, take up agendum 1
13:35:33 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "Welcome" taken up [from shadi]
13:35:36 [shadi]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/members
13:36:14 [shadi]
regrets: Rui
13:36:37 [Zakim]
+ +30231125aaaa
13:36:58 [shadi]
zakim, aaaa is kvotis
13:36:58 [Zakim]
+kvotis; got it
13:37:48 [shadi]
scribe: cstrobbe
13:37:50 [cstrobbe]
zakim, list agenda
13:37:50 [Zakim]
I see 9 items remaining on the agenda:
13:37:52 [Zakim]
1. Welcome [from shadi]
13:37:52 [Zakim]
2. Updated issues lists [from shadi]
13:37:53 [Zakim]
3. EARL 1.0 Schema Software Class [from shadi]
13:37:55 [Zakim]
4. Conformance (general) [from shadi]
13:37:57 [Zakim]
5. HTTP-in-RDF Message Class [from shadi]
13:37:58 [Zakim]
6. HTTP-in-RDF Message Class [from shadi]
13:38:00 [Zakim]
7. HTTP-in-RDF Message Class [from shadi]
13:38:02 [Zakim]
8. Content-in-RDF Content Class [from shadi]
13:38:03 [Zakim]
9. Upcoming meeting schedule [from shadi]
13:38:11 [cstrobbe]
zakim, take up agendum 1
13:38:11 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "Welcome" taken up [from shadi]
13:38:44 [cstrobbe]
Shadi: (something off the record)
13:40:02 [shadi]
zakim, take up next
13:40:02 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "Updated issues lists" taken up [from shadi]
13:40:22 [shadi]
- <http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/EARL10/issues>
13:40:22 [shadi]
- <http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/EARL10/guide-issues>
13:40:22 [shadi]
- <http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/HTTP/issues>
13:40:22 [shadi]
- <http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/Content/issues>
13:40:22 [shadi]
- <http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/Pointers/issues>
13:40:51 [cstrobbe]
Shadi: fairly elaborate issue list; for each section of the document; some issues still open
13:41:29 [cstrobbe]
Shadi: open issues: many of them editorial or fairly simple
13:41:56 [cstrobbe]
Shadi: If you have additional issues or comments, please bring them in
13:42:09 [cstrobbe]
Shadi: Issues list also contains proposals
13:42:14 [cstrobbe]
CarlosV: How proceed?
13:42:40 [cstrobbe]
Shadi: Taking the most substantial comments first: see agenda.
13:43:05 [cstrobbe]
Shadi: This week and next: address most substantial comments. Then go document by document.
13:43:39 [cstrobbe]
CarlosV: not sure if I have latest editor's draft
13:43:47 [shadi]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/#deliv
13:44:16 [cstrobbe]
Shadi: http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/#deliv uses lists all drafts. Any later drafts?
13:44:41 [cstrobbe]
CarlosV: Content & HTTP: not sure?
13:44:52 [shadi]
action: SAZ confirm http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/#deliv has the latest links
13:44:52 [trackbot]
Sorry, couldn't find user - SAZ
13:45:45 [cstrobbe]
Shadi: Issue with Schema spec: two version: 2006 and 2008. There is also a recorded issue for this. Talked to Johannes before he left; sorted out draft.
13:46:04 [cstrobbe]
CarlosV: Create a redirect from the 2006 version?
13:46:13 [cstrobbe]
Shadi: Could be done; first check what best way is.
13:46:41 [cstrobbe]
Shadi: Check the issues list again to see if anything is missing.
13:47:38 [cstrobbe]
zakim, take up next
13:47:38 [Zakim]
agendum 3. "EARL 1.0 Schema Software Class" taken up [from shadi]
13:48:08 [shadi]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/EARL10/issues#Software
13:48:21 [shadi]
http://www.w3.org/TR/2009/WD-EARL10-Schema-20091029/#Software
13:48:30 [cstrobbe]
Shadi: some issues related to EARL software class.
13:49:09 [cstrobbe]
Shadi: 2nd link: section 2.8: describe software that could be an evaluator ((semi)-automated tool).
13:49:43 [cstrobbe]
Shadi: first issue: Dublin Core: dct:hasversion: incorrect use
13:49:56 [shadi]
http://trac.usefulinc.com/doap
13:50:05 [cstrobbe]
Shadi: Also: should we be using DOAP to describe software?
13:50:20 [cstrobbe]
Shadi: DOAP is another RDF voc to describe software; used by Apache
13:51:11 [cstrobbe]
Shadi: got some comments in support of using DOAP. CarlosV, what is your current take?
13:51:50 [cstrobbe]
CarlosV: Use by Apache project. Others: some projects on SourceForge and elsewhere. Some automatic generation. Looks pretty stable.
13:52:21 [cstrobbe]
Shadi: Need to decide if DOAP can be used instead of current Software class. Can it represent what we need, eg title, description.
13:52:54 [cstrobbe]
Shadi: Next thing: dependency, as with DC and FOAF, or use our own vocabulary?
13:53:34 [cstrobbe]
CarlosV: Looked at it during last discussions. No changes since 2008, so looks stable.
13:53:53 [cstrobbe]
CarlosV: No changes in vocabulary since 2009.
13:54:11 [cstrobbe]
Shadi: CarlosV and Philip look at DOAP and work on proposal?
13:55:20 [shadi]
action: carlosv and philip to provide a proposal on DOAP class(es) and properties to relpace the current earl:Software class
13:55:20 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-115 - And philip to provide a proposal on DOAP class(es) and properties to relpace the current earl:Software class [on Carlos A. Velasco - due 2011-03-30].
13:56:16 [cstrobbe]
Kostas: Good to use DOAP.
13:56:25 [cstrobbe]
zakim, take up next
13:56:25 [Zakim]
agendum 4. "Conformance (general)" taken up [from shadi]
13:56:52 [cstrobbe]
Shadi: Conformance has been ongoing issue.
13:57:22 [cstrobbe]
Shadi: We're coming from a very XML-centric approach - syntax and how tools would use/process the syntax.
13:57:37 [cstrobbe]
Shadi: However, Semantic Web people look more at vocabulary.
13:57:53 [cstrobbe]
Shadi: We keep getting comments from them.
13:58:30 [cstrobbe]
Shadi: EARL Schema and HTTP-in-RDF: describing the conformance reqs differently: syntactic and semantic approaches.
13:58:45 [cstrobbe]
Shadi: good comments from Dominique H-M and Dan Connolly.
13:59:30 [cstrobbe]
Shadi: For example, consider conformance in a separate document. Separate what EARL reports should look like from the vocabulary document.
14:00:05 [cstrobbe]
Shadi: That could then be put together in the EARL Guide: describe what we expect from tools that create EARL, from EARL reports, and from tools that process EARL.
14:00:51 [cstrobbe]
CarlosV: The spec should also contain requirements for conformance; Guide is more like a tutorial.
14:01:17 [cstrobbe]
Carlos: Separate note?
14:02:07 [cstrobbe]
Shadi: If we understand Guide as the procedural guidance for tool builders...
14:02:26 [cstrobbe]
Shadi: Dom's suggestion was specifically about EARL reports.
14:03:36 [cstrobbe]
Shadi: Having conformance outside Voc document. Semantic Web people ... e.g. DOAP: we use only part of it. There would be a continual conflict between our use of DOAP and DOAP itself.
14:03:54 [shadi]
http://www.w3.org/TR/2009/WD-EARL10-Schema-20091029/#reports
14:04:16 [cstrobbe]
Shadi: Guide would then mainly be for a11y tool developers about how to use the spec in a useful way.
14:05:55 [cstrobbe]
Philip: Could be good to separate it from the spec itself. (...)
14:06:30 [cstrobbe]
Kostas: We also need to have something about conformance in the spec itself.
14:07:31 [cstrobbe]
Shadi: Taking your example of Assertor and Assertion (each Assertion - one Assertor) : makes sense in our context. Some of the context we get think outside of the box, outside accessibility evaluation.
14:07:43 [kvotis]
kvotis has joined #er
14:08:30 [cstrobbe]
Shadi: Making the conformance section should be short and refer tool developer to the other document / the Guide.
14:09:58 [cstrobbe]
Shadi: Have a careful look at the conformance section and the related issues; see how best to address them. Other suggestions are welcome. Have resolution next time.
14:10:53 [shadi]
action: shadi to send an e-mail on the particular issue of conformance, with a suggested resolution, for people to review by next meeting
14:10:53 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-116 - Send an e-mail on the particular issue of conformance, with a suggested resolution, for people to review by next meeting [on Shadi Abou-Zahra - due 2011-03-30].
14:11:04 [kvotis]
kvotis has joined #er
14:11:38 [cstrobbe]
zakim, take up next
14:11:38 [Zakim]
agendum 5. "HTTP-in-RDF Message Class" taken up [from shadi]
14:11:54 [shadi]
http://www.w3.org/TR/2009/WD-HTTP-in-RDF10-20091029/#MessageClass
14:12:08 [shadi]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/HTTP/issues#MessageClass
14:13:43 [cstrobbe]
Shadi: Some things not very explicit (?) in HTTP
14:15:23 [cstrobbe]
Shadi: Two approaches re entity class (not in HTTP protocol): (1) remodel slightly and include entity concept/class; (2) Johannes' proposal to use messageHeader class
14:16:59 [cstrobbe]
Shadi: Solution looks simple and effective; not sure what to do wit this.
14:17:11 [cstrobbe]
Johannes' proposal: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-ert/2010Mar/0007.html
14:17:45 [cstrobbe]
Shadi: Should be written up a bit more clearly.
14:19:14 [cstrobbe]
CarlosV: entities could be part of header?
14:20:12 [cstrobbe]
Shadi: One of the issues re conformance: every message class needs to have a HTTP property; because of request and response sequences.
14:20:34 [cstrobbe]
Shadi: An entity is basically an ... without an HTTP version
14:20:48 [cstrobbe]
Shadi: argument to put conformance outside EARL spec.
14:21:32 [cstrobbe]
Shadi: Also: just one class for MessageHeader in HTTP voc, but there are different types of headers. Johannes' proposal would break this down into different classes.
14:22:18 [cstrobbe]
Shadi: Write up clearer version of Johannes' proposal. Volunteers?
14:22:55 [shadi]
action: shadi to write up specific proposal with changes to the HTTP-in-RDF vocabulary to resolve the "Entity" modelling issue
14:22:56 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-117 - Write up specific proposal with changes to the HTTP-in-RDF vocabulary to resolve the "Entity" modelling issue [on Shadi Abou-Zahra - due 2011-03-30].
14:23:35 [cstrobbe]
zakim, take up next
14:23:35 [Zakim]
agendum 6. "HTTP-in-RDF Message Class" taken up [from shadi]
14:23:55 [shadi]
http://www.w3.org/TR/2009/WD-HTTP-in-RDF10-20091029/#MethodClass
14:24:34 [cstrobbe]
Shadi: 8 methods supported by HTTP 1.1
14:25:02 [cstrobbe]
Shadi: one more method has been adopted in RFC 5789: method PATCH
14:25:13 [shadi]
http://www.w3.org/2008/http-methods
14:25:24 [cstrobbe]
Shadi: So we need to add this to the RDF.
14:25:50 [cstrobbe]
Shadi: should be straightforward change. Accept this?
14:26:00 [cstrobbe]
CarlosV: OK.
14:26:12 [cstrobbe]
Shadi: No objections?
14:26:21 [shadi]
RESOLUTION: add PATCH method to the HTTP-in-RDF Method class
14:26:35 [shadi]
http://www.w3.org/2008/http-methods
14:26:46 [cstrobbe]
Shadi: someone take action item to add it?
14:28:21 [cstrobbe]
RFC 5789: PATCH Method for HTTP: http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5789
14:29:19 [shadi]
action: philip to add PATCH description to the http-methods RDF http://www.w3.org/2008/http-methods
14:29:19 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-118 - Add PATCH description to the http-methods RDF http://www.w3.org/2008/http-methods [on Philip Ackermann - due 2011-03-30].
14:29:41 [shadi]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/tracker/
14:30:09 [cstrobbe]
Shadi: You can go to http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/tracker/ to see the currently open issues and action items.
14:30:16 [shadi]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/tracker/actions/open
14:30:32 [cstrobbe]
zakim, take up next
14:30:32 [Zakim]
agendum 7. "HTTP-in-RDF Message Class" taken up [from shadi]
14:30:47 [cstrobbe]
zakim, take up agendum 9
14:30:47 [Zakim]
agendum 9. "Upcoming meeting schedule" taken up [from shadi]
14:31:18 [cstrobbe]
Shadi: no meeting next week; next meeting on 6 April (consensus)
14:31:46 [Zakim]
-Christophe_Strobbe
14:31:47 [Zakim]
-kvotis
14:31:49 [Zakim]
-Shadi
14:31:53 [cstrobbe]
Meeting closed.
14:32:00 [Zakim]
-philip_
14:32:00 [Zakim]
WAI_ERTWG()9:30AM has ended
14:32:01 [Zakim]
Attendees were Christophe_Strobbe, Shadi, philip_, CarlosV, +30231125aaaa, kvotis
14:32:34 [shadi]
trackbot, end meeting
14:32:34 [trackbot]
Zakim, list attendees
14:32:34 [Zakim]
sorry, trackbot, I don't know what conference this is
14:32:35 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, please draft minutes
14:32:35 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/03/23-er-minutes.html trackbot
14:32:36 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, bye
14:32:36 [RRSAgent]
I see 5 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2011/03/23-er-actions.rdf :
14:32:36 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: SAZ confirm http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/#deliv has the latest links [1]
14:32:36 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/03/23-er-irc#T13-44-52
14:32:36 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: carlosv and philip to provide a proposal on DOAP class(es) and properties to relpace the current earl:Software class [2]
14:32:36 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/03/23-er-irc#T13-55-20
14:32:36 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: shadi to send an e-mail on the particular issue of conformance, with a suggested resolution, for people to review by next meeting [3]
14:32:36 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/03/23-er-irc#T14-10-53
14:32:36 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: shadi to write up specific proposal with changes to the HTTP-in-RDF vocabulary to resolve the "Entity" modelling issue [4]
14:32:36 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/03/23-er-irc#T14-22-55
14:32:36 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: philip to add PATCH description to the http-methods RDF http://www.w3.org/2008/http-methods [5]
14:32:36 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/03/23-er-irc#T14-29-19