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15:55:22 Zakim, this will be 2119
15:55:22 ok, trackbot; I see WAI_(A11YF2F)11:30AM scheduled to start 25 minutes ago
15:55:23 Meeting: HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
15:55:23 Date: 20 March 2011
15:55:34 rrsagent, do not start a new log
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15:56:33 zakim, this is 2119
15:56:33 ok, MichaelC; that matches WAI_(A11YF2F)11:30AM
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15:58:07 present: John_Foliot, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, Mike_Smith, Silvia_Pfeiffer, Eric_Carlson, Judy_Brewer, Mastaomo_Kobayashi, Janina_Sajka, Sean_Hayes, Frank_Olivier, Cynthia_Shelly, Michael_Cooper
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15:59:30 +Gregory_Rosmaita
15:59:44 present+ Gregory_Rosmaita
15:59:50 you be on mute? Ha!
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16:04:40 scribe: Rich
16:05:34 Topic: Video Examples with TTS control of audio descriptions
16:05:47 First example: use ARIA live region
16:05:59 RRSAgent, make minutes
16:05:59 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/03/20-html-a11y-minutes.html MikeSmith
16:06:31 RRSAgent, make logs public
16:07:21 Example renders extended description using TTS
16:08:11 mkobyyas: We can change the speed of the audio description
16:08:53 q?
16:09:11 mkobyyas: Can also use TTS server
16:09:31 -Gregory_Rosmaita
16:10:00 mkobyyas: Sends text to server and returns audio
16:10:28 eric: How do you synchronize this with the video?
16:10:32 mkobayas: time update
16:11:23 q?
16:12:32 +Gregory_Rosmaita
16:13:47 rich: Summary: Get text, send to server, get audio file, play it, wait for next timed text call
16:13:59 q?
16:14:06 q+ richardschwerdtfe
16:14:17 sean: pause on exit seems like the wrong thing
16:15:00 RRSAgent, make minutes
16:15:00 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/03/20-html-a11y-minutes.html MikeSmith
16:15:33 eric: he is correct.
16:16:12 sylvia, can you show how it works?
16:16:47 q?
16:16:53 ack richardschwerdtfe
16:17:55 Topic: Demo Sean Hays
16:18:20 niet
16:19:19 Sean: I created a script called trakks.js
16:20:05 sean: I have three different tracks one for captions, two for descriptions
16:20:22 Sean: That make you allowed to do the track markup
16:20:47 Sean: the idea is that you can do other things. I have an Iframe pointing to the same TTML file that is styled as ...
16:21:00 Sean: I am actually using the track API
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16:22:01 http://www.cwmwenallt.com/access/player.html
16:22:17 sean: This demo is on Safari
16:22:36 sean: if I look at in FF or IE it looks the same
16:22:50 sean: there are 4 levels of navigation in the file
16:22:58 sean: if I drill down I can skip along ...
16:23:14 sean: so I can skip along at the various levels
16:23:25 sean: If I skip up a level then the section level changes
16:23:36 sean: So, that is doing navigation based on the XML file
16:23:45 very nice tab navigation for the player with exposed text being spoken
16:23:50 sean: so this is TTML turning up as captions
16:23:56 i'm testing with IE9
16:24:25 sean: I turn on audio descriptions. So, rather than generating the audio. ...
16:24:26 hmm, can tab navigate the controls, but can't get them to activate
16:24:48 sean: so, this is using the caption file as captions as well as descriptions. It also points to the audio files
16:25:06 sean: the media tracks shows the signing
16:25:19 sean: the signing is a separate video file that is synched
16:25:35 sean: so I switched the source
16:25:44 silvia: so it is burned in
16:25:47 sean: yes
16:26:04 sean: the access to the pixels does not work on all the browsers
16:26:19 eric: do you support alpha in 2.64
16:26:25 frank: no
16:26:36 q?
16:26:37 eric: do you support ping - a compression format
16:26:41 frank: no
16:27:17 sean: new demo
16:27:29 sean: I can import an scc file
16:27:53 sean: now that I can support that fxp file ...
16:28:23 secan: In this one the fxp is transparent
16:28:29 s/fxp / dfxp
16:28:36 thanks
16:28:56 silvia: how much of the dfxp have you implemented
16:29:06 sean: all of it except for the obscure timing stuff
16:29:44 sean: If I edit the .dfxp file ...
16:30:03 nobody speaking just now
16:30:11 RRSAgent, make minutes
16:30:11 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/03/20-html-a11y-minutes.html MikeSmith
16:30:18 sean: the styles in here map to CSS files
16:30:28 silvia: so you can also do bold and italic:
16:30:41 sean: yes. all of the classes get mapped to class Q
16:31:07 sean: you can overwrite them can't you
16:31:24 silvia: you implement to different regions - one for the speaker
16:31:56 sorry: sean: you implement to different regions - one for the speaker
16:32:14 style sheet for sean's demo: http://www.cwmwenallt.com/access/style/jquery-ui-1.8.9.custom.css
16:32:16 sean: so there the top region is separate from the bottom one.
16:32:32 sean: two different navigation regions. keyboard navigable
16:32:42 sean: I tested with NVDA and both get working.
16:33:02 sean: I tried aria-live but does not work across all browser
16:33:06 can access UI with IE9, but can't play (to be expected, no?)
16:33:35 sean: If I were using the TTS engine you could simply send the text and generate the audio on the fly
16:34:07 sean: I did not find out about the bing translator until just now. I might have a go at that
16:34:24 what is the bing translator?
16:34:41 converts text to audio (server based)
16:35:29 found it: http://www.microsofttranslator.com/
16:35:29 sean: I will try to find a link to that
16:35:32 there
16:35:49 Demo: Silvia
16:36:05 http://blogs.msdn.com/b/translation/
16:37:02 silvia: so this is a build of Chromium which is a build of webkit code
16:37:21 Topic: Silvia Demo on chromium
16:38:03 silvia: this is a build by one of the people in Google (not myself) doing text track on chromium
16:38:12 silvia: it is implemented in the browser
16:38:36 silvia: it's been built into the framework of how video works
16:39:25 eric: so what she has done is add a generic track element to webkit and a number of classes to read the data from the track to decode it. The whole thing is done in a very generic way and it is not a big deal to put in a generic parser
16:39:51 eric: it was done as a text track. Binaries would be more work. Basic plumbing is in webkit f4
16:39:56 s/f4/4/
16:40:12 eric: we just got code from the person doing this on Friday
16:40:25 eric: it is a simple matter of finishing this on Sarari
16:40:33 s/Sarari/Safari/
16:40:37 q?
16:40:43 silvia: there is a lot more to do
16:41:15 silvia: we are on the way and we are getting there. It fits with the other stuff in video. That basically states what we have designed so far can be implemented.
16:41:51 RRSAgent, make minutes
16:41:51 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/03/20-html-a11y-minutes.html MikeSmith
16:41:54 sean: the styling you had on that caption, where did that come from ... so you are not hooked up to the CSS
16:42:11 silvia: this is a very, very early pre-release thing but the first thing is done
16:42:19 mike: is the build available publicly
16:42:25 silvia: no
16:42:53 eric: I am working with her but she is a new webkit contributor. The plan is to get it into shape to get it into the tree
16:43:07 eric: the point is it will be in there to play around with
16:43:22 frank: what was the trickiest thing to implement so far?
16:43:26 eric: the architecture
16:43:48 silvia: one thing to note the styling ...
16:43:59 eric: it is done with an element in the shadow dom
16:44:18 frank: we are considering doing a similar thing
16:44:29 silvia: how do you do the controls?
16:44:34 frank: custom draw them
16:44:40 silvia: cool
16:45:05 eric: hooking this up to CSS is no work at all as it is in the shadow DOM. ... hours of work
16:46:13 chair: Janina_Sajka, MikeSmith
16:46:22 eric: Since Webkit is open source. We have to get the architecture and the code submitted. I don't know how far off it is. It will take a week or so to get it all checked in. As it is an early draft it will take 3-5 weeks
16:46:39 silvia: I would say at least a month. soonish
16:46:44 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/03/20-html-a11y-minutes.html oedipus
16:47:16 silvia: the spacial markup for WebVTT
16:47:33 silvia: deciding if to use generic HTML markup in queues
16:47:45 frank: we would like that. CSS ...
16:47:57 silvia: pseudo selector support to get to the shadow DOM
16:48:00 q?
16:48:20 Mike: running a little bit over. The next thing we want to do is do a review of yesterday's minutes
16:48:20 http://www.w3.org/2011/03/19-media-minutes.html
16:48:28 Topic: review media minutes
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16:49:00 MichaelC: Review issue 147 and talk about drag and drop
16:49:07 -> http://www.w3.org/2011/03/19-media-minutes.html minutes of media subteam breakout from March 19
16:49:25 MichaelC: the minutes are by date
16:49:40 Mike: Issue 147
16:49:55 Topic: Issue 147
16:49:58 http://dev.w3.org/html5/status/issue-status.html
16:50:13 Mike: this is the playback rate thing
16:50:17 Issue 147 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/147
16:50:36 silvia: frank did you put that in ?
16:50:38 frank: yes
16:51:37 frank: It seems prudent that you know where you are in live streaming such as if you are behind. It also seems prudent to tell the author if there are issues with playing back at a certain rate.
16:52:00 frank: we want to have something that does not change and ship what we have today in the spec.
16:52:42 silvia: the playback rate tells you the rate it is playing back. If playing backwards it is negative. That is what playback rate does and you can adjust it in JavaScript
16:52:49 q?
16:53:06 eric: this is a javascript API. The text in the spec. says the user sets it and the browser plays it
16:53:47 mike: where we are at is we have a bug and Hixie says won't fix.
16:54:00 mike: we are going to adopt this unless someone introduces a counter proposal
16:54:19 silvia: it is overloaded as the browser can tell you what it has done.
16:54:30 silvia: I introduced a change proposal
16:54:47 mike: the next thing to do is put out a survey
16:55:07 mike: the bug triage team said this does not have any relation to accessiblity concerns
16:55:29 silvia: I would think Janina might be concerned about a playback rate
16:56:05 eric: the spec. tells you play at the rate the browser told to play
16:56:22 eric: Hixie says if the browser can't perform it sucks
16:56:57 janina: my mother who is not a native English speaker so she would want to see things slown down
16:57:10 sean: it is a mainstream thing too
16:57:27 silvia: Ian regards the playback rate as a vehicle to tell the browser what to do
16:58:05 silvia: he thinks the browser's ability to convey what it was able to do would be good.
16:58:13 q?
16:58:18 silvia: Ian wants to see the reporting
16:58:51 silvia: Hixie did not like my proposal
16:59:22 silvia: there is a whole discussion on statistics but there is no concrete proposal on the table yet and I would like to pull what was said together
16:59:36 silvia: Hixie wants us to assemble all the statistics
16:59:54 eric: Phillip said adding an attribute for the actual rate is insufficient
17:00:23 eric: what is implemented in Webkit is a script that tells us to change the rate and a signal is generated when the rate has changec
17:00:40 eric: leave it the way it is
17:01:08 mike: from the task forces perspective we need to decide to whether to endorse a specific proposal
17:01:15 janina: we should discuss at the next telecon
17:01:18 link to Bing translator http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ff512404.aspx
17:01:26 thanks Sean
17:01:47 action: Michael(tm) to add an agenda item for next week's telcon for discussion of issue 147
17:01:47 Sorry, couldn't find user - Michael(tm)
17:01:58 action: Mike to add an agenda item for next week's telcon f or discussion of issue 147
17:01:59 Could not create new action (failed to parse response from server) - please contact sysreq with the details of what happened.
17:01:59 Could not create new action (unparseable data in server response: local variable 'd' referenced before assignment) - please contact sysreq with the details of what happened.
17:02:33 Mike: we wanted to do summaries of yesterdays discussions
17:02:40 http://www.w3.org/2011/03/19-html-a11y-minutes.html
17:02:57 Mike: we talked about text alternatives a bit
17:03:16 Mike: Laura is not in complete agreement with those in the task force
17:03:59 Mike: Cynthia did you have the discussion on text alternatives
17:04:24 Cynthia: Steve was supposed to send a draft last night but I did not get one
17:04:48 Mike: We saw an Opera plug-in that makes longdesc discoverable
17:05:06 John: there was a jquery plug-in
17:05:11 http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Verbose_desc_reqs
17:05:12 Mike: that is new info
17:05:29 Mike: you took an action item to fold that into the change proposal
17:05:37 http://www.d.umn.edu/~lcarlson/research/ld.html
17:06:06 John: Steve Faulkner also provided draft text
17:06:15 http://www.html5accessibility.com/tests/img-longdesc.html#long
17:06:30 HTML WG Bug 10853: HTML5 lacks a verbose description mechanism http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=10853
17:07:09 mike: the summary on longdesc is we made some progress on long desc. and we got wider support of retaining longdesc
17:07:33 Mike: ARIA lexical processing
17:08:16 http://www.w3.org/2011/03/19-html-a11y-minutes.html#item03
17:08:23 http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/content-models.html#annotations-for-assistive-technology-products-aria
17:08:27 richardschwerdtfe: we need a means to detect clickable regions…
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17:08:40 … so that authors can assign events to regions
17:08:41 http://www.html5accessibility.com/tests/aria-changes.html
17:08:48 … gives you the bounding rectangle
17:08:59 … satisfies an authoring need
17:09:07 … ties input back to the actual DOM
17:09:59 http://dev.w3.org/html5/status/issue-status.html
17:09:59 Mike: The last open issues
17:10:01 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/CaretSelection
17:10:31 MikeSmith: we are good to go on the relevant accessibility issues
17:10:48 MikeSmith: We will talk about drag and drop
17:10:54 http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/dnd.html#dnd
17:11:05 MikeSmith: summaries?
17:11:10 http://www.w3.org/2011/03/19-media-minutes.html
17:11:21 silvia: need Mark Watson but is not around
17:11:33 q+ don't we still have a LOT of outstanding issues with TABLE markup and algorithms (what wendy was working on)
17:11:42 q+ to say we still have a LOT of outstanding issues with TABLE markup and algorithms (what wendy was working on)
17:11:44 silvia: don't think they know how to dial in
17:12:15 q?
17:12:57 silvia: As a summary we started out with the use cases (3). In band tracks
17:13:12 silvia: One resource mentioned int the source attribute of the video element
17:13:31 silivia: we have external tracks as slaves to the main track
17:13:49 silivia: we have equivalent video elements that are synchronized
17:14:27 silvia: we need support for the second one with the slaved timeline. This will be very important for sign languages video and audio descriptions
17:14:40 silvia: that was the key agreement on which we based the design work
17:14:46 http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Media_Multitrack_Media_API#.2810.29_HTML_Accessibility_Task_Force_proposal_.28.22The_San_Diego_Solution.22.29
17:15:01 silivia: this is option 10 on our wiki page
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17:15:18 silvia: we focused on our first use case - inband tracks
17:15:47 silvia: on our agenda we are a little bit behind but we are making good progress
17:15:50 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2011Mar/0131.html
17:16:09