IRC log of html-a11y on 2011-03-07

Timestamps are in UTC.

19:56:08 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #html-a11y
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logging to
19:56:10 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs world
19:56:10 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #html-a11y
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Zakim, this will be 2119
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ok, trackbot; I see WAI_PFWG(A11Y)3:00PM scheduled to start in 4 minutes
19:56:13 [trackbot]
Meeting: HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
19:56:13 [trackbot]
Date: 07 March 2011
19:56:43 [oedipus]
19:56:47 [Zakim]
WAI_PFWG(A11Y)3:00PM has now started
19:56:54 [Zakim]
19:57:02 [oedipus]
chair: Rich
19:57:07 [oedipus]
scribe: Gregory_Rosmaita
19:57:11 [oedipus]
scribenick: oedipus
19:57:34 [oedipus]
Meeting: Canvas Subgroup of HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
19:57:39 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate oedipus
19:58:18 [Zakim]
20:00:12 [richardschwerdtfe]
20:01:21 [Zakim]
20:01:52 [Downchuck]
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20:05:25 [Downchuck]
20:05:43 [Downchuck]
helpful article for me as I work with ios
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20:07:00 [oedipus]
20:07:57 [Judy]
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20:08:19 [richardschwerdtfe]
20:08:49 [oedipus]
TOPIC: Strategy for positioning fallback content relative to corresponding canvas UI drawing counterparts
20:09:00 [oedipus]
20:10:04 [oedipus]
RS: looked at Chuck's path in SVG thing
20:10:10 [oedipus]
CP: just talking about PATH element
20:10:30 [oedipus]
RS: suggesting what? PATH for drawing?
20:10:37 [oedipus]
CP: have to do manually in CANVAS
20:11:13 [oedipus]
CP: can convert SVG path to series of canvas path commands or reverse -- example of what is available -- first thing IMAGEMAP, if not available can generate PATH -- just an example
20:12:16 [oedipus]
RS: bind an object to something being drawn on screen -- how would 1 set dimensions for object on screen -- how to say "here are bounds of this object"
20:12:40 [oedipus]
RS: want to say this area i am drawing to is associated with this element, and here is bounding element/clipping rectangle
20:12:49 [oedipus]
RS: device context and clipping rectangle, you are done
20:13:19 [oedipus]
CP: for arbitrary paths, don't want to lose ability to represent arbitrary path -- curve that only takes op portion of bounding rectangle becomes less useful
20:13:33 [oedipus]
CP: keep going back to SVG because in terms of usability, very similar
20:13:40 [oedipus]
CP: have example of drawFocusRing
20:14:32 [oedipus]
CP: 1 touch event short -- in canvas, if get mouse event, doesn't require pre-binding elements in DOM -- could change title, draw a focus event
20:14:46 [oedipus]
CP: with iPhone and iPad 1 more layer of touch events that haven't been exposed
20:14:53 [oedipus]
RS: fit testing within a region?
20:14:55 [oedipus]
CP: yes
20:15:00 [oedipus]
RS: how establish region?
20:15:30 [oedipus]
CP: arbitrary -- 2 diff ways: paint to bitmap image and color of fill is mapped over and associated with function call -- quick and dirty to make clickable canvas area
20:15:39 [oedipus]
CP: other: keep object with x,y bounding boxes
20:16:03 [oedipus]
CP: event elegance -- this is a bounding box i am listening to and will now run through program
20:16:16 [oedipus]
CP: point of standards is to give flexibility while having a standard
20:16:28 [oedipus]
RS: can't limit to just path?
20:17:13 [oedipus]
CP: drawFocusRing works, but is hit-testing based -- don't want to force to redefine every path -- could reuse drawFocusRing with diff name, but requires setting region for each clickable element
20:17:20 [oedipus]
RS: would that work for touch devices?
20:17:39 [oedipus]
CP: hit-testing and methods are passed -- would work with touch device if events available
20:18:33 [oedipus]
CP: canvas on iOS -- click on canvas, thinks is image -- will expose title of image -- have to perform awkward steps -- don't want to pass touch events into canvas DOM until user affirms this is element the user wants
20:18:52 [oedipus]
CP: slide finger over link -- give name of link -- set virtual focus on link -- double-TAB to activate
20:19:04 [oedipus]
RS: if move finger over can tell if in clickable area?
20:19:16 [oedipus]
CP: only when activated -- before, just a canvas blob
20:19:28 [oedipus]
CP: once double-TAB element, starts processing events
20:19:48 [oedipus]
RS: bound to corresponding element, but what are you using as parameters -- how to glean bounding rectangle
20:20:12 [oedipus]
CP: with clicakable use same semantics as drawFocusRing and bind current path to element -- run for each element
20:20:22 [oedipus]
RS: seems like a reasonable approach
20:20:46 [oedipus]
CP: requires that all clickable areas defined ahead of time rather than after an event -- text clickability can get weird
20:21:03 [oedipus]
CP: double-tab on a word, but don't want ot send extra word boundaries if don't have to
20:21:14 [oedipus]
CP: if receive events, ARIA handles with activedescendant
20:22:02 [oedipus]
CP: awkward on iOS getting events to fire -- brought up on www-dom list fact that what apple introduced is "innovative" and unique -- like a touch hover event
20:22:29 [oedipus]
CP: did same thing -- touch hover event not bound or standardized -- if was, could have bounded into hit testing
20:22:57 [oedipus]
CP: setClickableArea falls apart if lot of complexity (lots of text)
20:23:06 [oedipus]
CP: if dealing with complex app, not as desireable
20:23:23 [oedipus]
RS: want to say "take current path to calculate"
20:23:27 [Downchuck]
setClickArea(element) ; clearClickableAreas();
20:23:36 [Downchuck]
[sic] setClickableAreas
20:23:48 [oedipus]
RS: diff btw text and objects -- text has font info so can compute bounding rectangle for text
20:24:06 [oedipus]
RS: might be able to deal with that
20:24:24 [oedipus]
CP: more innovative user interfaces as touch and canvas implemented more broadly and robustly
20:24:50 [oedipus]
RS: apply to text? such as word processor -- do on each piece of text?
20:25:11 [oedipus]
CP: if apply ClickableArea apply to shape -- circle with text make outer circle clickable
20:25:21 [oedipus]
RS: but not on each piece of text in circle?
20:25:42 [oedipus]
CP: possibility -- a11y and ARIA standardizes things for UI -- use of it will depend on application
20:26:07 [oedipus]
CP: might want to allow someone to double-tap to start reading with "you are currently over this word" -- how to do quickly?
20:26:26 [oedipus]
CP: circular text box moseOver first thing to tell is word currently over, then speak text block
20:26:42 [oedipus]
RS: know in document area, but do hit-testing at word and character level?
20:26:51 [oedipus]
CP: when click on RTE, need to know where to put caret
20:27:06 [oedipus]
RS: does application rather than system do all the work
20:27:14 [oedipus]
CP: depends on application
20:27:28 [oedipus]
20:27:48 [oedipus]
CP: hit testing is going to be less memory intense -- asynchronous based model works better
20:28:25 [oedipus]
RS: would be good if could bind hit testing to an element
20:28:34 [oedipus]
RS: more than a11y impact
20:28:49 [oedipus]
CP: make things easier to program
20:29:11 [oedipus]
RS: need to float this concept to WG -- setClickableRegion
20:29:24 [oedipus]
CP: RS float that, i will float "touch hover" concept
20:29:35 [oedipus]
20:30:11 [oedipus]
TOPIC: Chuck Pritchard update on working modification to simulator caret tracking
20:30:14 [oedipus]
20:30:30 [oedipus]
CP: hasn't progressed -- still at 1 character right now -- grabbing focus for ZoomText
20:30:42 [oedipus]
TOPIC: Outstanding Bugs and Issues Being Monitored
20:30:51 [oedipus]
RS: nothing moved on any?
20:31:04 [oedipus]
CP: no -- nearly got WebKit to consider resolution of pixels
20:31:10 [oedipus]
20:31:13 [oedipus]
20:31:15 [oedipus]
20:31:18 [oedipus]
20:31:21 [oedipus]
Issue 131:
20:31:43 [oedipus]
RS: submitted as editorial issue
20:32:07 [oedipus]
CP: should be addressed; just a bit of pushback from webkit community about shadow DOM, but not too hard a pushback
20:32:35 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate oedipus
20:32:44 [oedipus]
RS: thought webkit ok with response we gave them
20:32:52 [oedipus]
CP: need to let it get into codebase
20:33:04 [oedipus]
RS: if not moving, need to ping apple people to find out why
20:33:26 [oedipus]
CP: give it 2 days -- webkit collective discussed as group last week
20:33:30 [oedipus]
RS: regular meetings?
20:33:37 [oedipus]
CP: no -- converse over bug reports
20:33:51 [oedipus]
RS: conncected to WHATWG?
20:33:59 [oedipus]
CP: no directly with webkit bug tracker
20:34:22 [oedipus]
RS: travelling to CSUN -- could discuss canvas a11y at satruday/sunday f2f
20:34:35 [oedipus]
CP: not yet gotten tickets
20:35:08 [oedipus]
RS: face2face meeting in San Diego
20:35:22 [oedipus]
RS: first time i can host a canvas call will be 28 March 2011
20:35:56 [oedipus]
CP: apple is 1 developer who have made the leap so far -- only full screen touch interface widely available
20:36:08 [oedipus]
RS: will float by maciej
20:36:17 [oedipus]
20:36:22 [Zakim]
20:36:26 [Zakim]
20:36:36 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate oedipus
20:36:39 [oedipus]
zakim, please part
20:36:40 [Zakim]
leaving. As of this point the attendees were Gregory_Rosmaita, Rich, Chuck_Pritchard
20:36:40 [Zakim]
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20:36:47 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate oedipus
20:37:55 [oedipus]
20:37:57 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate oedipus
20:52:05 [RRSAgent]
I see no action items