IRC log of lld on 2011-03-03

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:52:39 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #lld
14:52:39 [RRSAgent]
logging to
14:52:43 [TomB]
rrsagent, bookmark
14:52:43 [RRSAgent]
14:52:50 [TomB]
zakim, this will be lld
14:52:50 [Zakim]
ok, TomB, I see INC_LLDXG()10:00AM already started
14:52:58 [TomB]
Meeting: LLD XG
14:53:03 [TomB]
Chair: Emmanuelle
14:53:13 [TomB]
rrsagent, please make record public
14:53:39 [TomB]
14:53:54 [TomB]
14:54:05 [TomB]
Regrets: Felix
14:54:25 [monica]
Scribe: monica
14:54:25 [antoine]
antoine has joined #lld
14:54:56 [Zakim]
14:54:59 [TomB]
Scribenick: monica
14:55:03 [antoine]
zakim, IPcaller is me
14:55:03 [Zakim]
+antoine; got it
14:55:36 [antoine]
zakim, who is here?
14:55:36 [Zakim]
On the phone I see mduke, antoine
14:55:40 [jodi]
jodi has joined #LLD
14:55:47 [emma]
emma has joined #lld
14:55:50 [jodi]
jodi has left #LLD
14:55:50 [AlexanderH]
AlexanderH has joined #lld
14:55:56 [jodi]
jodi has joined #lld
14:55:57 [rsinger]
rsinger has joined #lld
14:56:04 [antoine]
zakim, code?
14:56:04 [Zakim]
the conference code is 55394 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+ tel:+44.203.318.0479), antoine
14:56:16 [antoine]
rrsagent, please draft minutes
14:56:16 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate antoine
14:56:17 [emma]
sorry for being late
14:56:27 [GordonD]
GordonD has joined #lld
14:56:44 [Zakim]
14:56:51 [Zakim]
14:57:17 [antoine]
zakim, ??P3
14:57:17 [Zakim]
I don't understand '??P3', antoine
14:57:22 [antoine]
zakim, ??P3 is kcoyle
14:57:22 [Zakim]
+kcoyle; got it
14:57:26 [TomB]
zakim, IPcaller is probably TomB
14:57:26 [Zakim]
+TomB?; got it
14:57:36 [Zakim]
14:57:59 [Zakim]
14:58:02 [Zakim]
14:58:11 [emma]
zakim, ipcaller is me
14:58:11 [Zakim]
+emma; got it
14:58:34 [emma]
zakim, who's here ?
14:58:34 [Zakim]
On the phone I see mduke, antoine, TomB?, kcoyle, emma, jeff_, rsinger
14:58:45 [jeff__]
zakim, mute me
14:58:45 [Zakim]
sorry, jeff__, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
14:58:50 [michaelp]
michaelp has joined #lld
14:58:57 [Zakim]
+ +1.330.672.aaaa - is perhaps marcia?
14:58:59 [jar_]
jar_ has joined #lld
14:59:01 [jeff__]
zakim, jeff_ is me
14:59:01 [Zakim]
+jeff__; got it
14:59:06 [jeff__]
zakim, mute me
14:59:06 [Zakim]
jeff__ should now be muted
14:59:07 [antoine]
zakim, aaaa is marcia
14:59:07 [Zakim]
sorry, antoine, I do not recognize a party named 'aaaa'
14:59:19 [Zakim]
14:59:21 [Zakim]
14:59:36 [antoine]
zakim, ??P9 is GordonD
14:59:36 [Zakim]
+GordonD; got it
14:59:46 [marcia]
marcia has joined #lld
15:00:01 [antoine]
zakim, who is here?
15:00:01 [Zakim]
On the phone I see mduke, antoine, TomB?, kcoyle, emma, jeff__ (muted), rsinger, marcia, GordonD (muted), michaelp
15:00:06 [uldis]
uldis has joined #lld
15:00:57 [Zakim]
15:01:10 [Zakim]
15:01:27 [antoine]
zakim, LC is edsu
15:01:27 [Zakim]
+edsu; got it
15:01:36 [Zakim]
15:01:38 [Zakim]
15:01:46 [uldis]
zakim, ??P17 is uldis
15:01:46 [Zakim]
+uldis; got it
15:01:53 [antoine]
zakim, ??P12 is AlexanderH
15:01:53 [Zakim]
+AlexanderH; got it
15:01:55 [ww_]
Zakim, ww_ is ww
15:01:57 [rayd]
rayd has joined #lld
15:01:57 [Zakim]
sorry, ww_, I do not recognize a party named 'ww_'
15:02:14 [antoine]
zakim, jar_ is jar
15:02:14 [Zakim]
sorry, antoine, I do not recognize a party named 'jar_'
15:02:14 [ww_]
RRSAgent: present: ww_
15:02:14 [RRSAgent]
I'm logging. I don't understand 'present: ww_ ', ww_. Try /msg RRSAgent help
15:02:26 [antoine]
zakim, jar is jar_
15:02:26 [Zakim]
+jar_; got it
15:02:38 [pmurray]
pmurray has joined #lld
15:03:02 [monica]
PROPOSED: To accept
15:03:17 [monica]
15:03:21 [monica]
15:03:21 [Zakim]
+ +1.404.892.aabb
15:03:29 [antoine]
zakim, aabb is pmurray
15:03:32 [monica]
15:03:34 [Zakim]
+pmurray; got it
15:03:49 [monica]
15:03:54 [Zakim]
15:04:00 [antoine]
zakim, LC is rayd
15:04:04 [jar_]
jar_ has changed the topic to: (jar_)
15:04:10 [Zakim]
+rayd; got it
15:04:42 [monica]
only 10 telcons left agenda now lists all the telcons with chair and a proposed topic for each telcon
15:04:58 [monica]
s/only/emma: only/
15:05:11 [monica]
...would like to discuss this proposed schedule
15:05:43 [monica]
...first introducing telcon for Asia participants - invites TomB to introduce
15:06:14 [monica]
TomB: Monday or Tuesday depending on location
15:06:38 [Zakim]
15:06:42 [monica]
... 10 people expected no agenda topics suggested so far
15:07:13 [emma]
TomB: looking for agenda ideas
15:07:32 [emma]
... other wise informal discussion
15:07:52 [emma]
... we don't have a scribe yet, late for the US
15:08:07 [marcia]
Can we have two scribers -- we are not familiar with the coming participants and not sure whether will be able to understand them?
15:08:35 [Zakim]
15:08:39 [emma]
... could be difficult to understand
15:09:21 [monica]
emma: suggests during the meeting we should discuss the content of the report
15:09:27 [antoine]
15:09:34 [monica]
TomB: agrees
15:10:02 [monica]
15:10:22 [monica]
emma: agenda proposes contents of report discussed in the upcoming telcons
15:10:43 [monica]
...someone to lead the discussion of the contents (each section)
15:10:50 [monica]
...assuming we agree on contents
15:11:14 [monica]
...we need ot check we have owners for each section of the report
15:11:19 [monica]
15:11:33 [Zakim]
15:11:37 [monica]
...owner could be doing aggregation or summarising
15:12:06 [monica]
...some people are more comfortable with writing than others
15:12:14 [Zakim]
15:12:27 [digikim_]
digikim_ has joined #lld
15:12:28 [monica]
...we need to have text in each section
15:12:42 [uldis]
marcia: re two scribes -- perhaps one of them from Asia-Pacific region/timezone
15:12:43 [antoine]
zakim, ??P17 is maybe digikim_
15:12:43 [Zakim]
I don't understand '??P17 is maybe digikim_', antoine
15:12:52 [uldis]
antoine: that's me
15:12:58 [antoine]
zakim, ??P17 is uldis
15:12:58 [Zakim]
+uldis; got it
15:13:00 [uldis]
Zakim, ??P17 is me
15:13:00 [Zakim]
I already had ??P17 as uldis, uldis
15:13:09 [monica]
...we can now review the list of telcons alongside the outline of report contents
15:13:13 [kcoyle]
emma - plan sounds good
15:13:16 [monica]
..any comments?
15:13:40 [kefo]
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15:13:44 [Zakim]
15:13:46 [kefo]
zakim, LC is me
15:13:46 [Zakim]
+kefo; got it
15:13:54 [emma]
15:13:55 [kefo]
zakim, mute me please
15:13:55 [Zakim]
kefo should now be muted
15:14:15 [monica]
...I am trying to clarify what we are asking owners to do - could be writing or other tasks
15:14:29 [marcia]
uldis: Not sure who will be there... looks like only 2-3 and maybe they need to speak.
15:14:39 [antoine]
15:15:30 [GordonD]
15:15:35 [monica]
...according to schedule, next week's discussion will eb data issues led by Gordon
15:15:40 [monica]
15:15:51 [monica]
15:16:51 [monica]
...then will be discussion on problems and limitations, 2 telcons, led by karen
15:17:08 [monica]
karen: agrees two telcons is a good idea
15:17:10 [GordonD]
+1 for 2 slots for problems and limitations
15:17:52 [TomB]
q+ to confirm that Gordon for "library data issues" next week means ...?
15:18:04 [monica]
on 2011-03-31 discussion would be on LLD Benefits, owned by Ed and Emma
15:18:17 [emma]
ack to
15:18:17 [Zakim]
TomB, you wanted to confirm that Gordon for "library data issues" next week means ...?
15:18:34 [antoine]
no it is
15:18:41 [monica]
...2011-04-27 discussion on use cases
15:18:48 [monica]
TomB: ??
15:19:40 [monica]
edsu: agrees on date
15:20:28 [monica]
emma: invites others to join in benefits of LLD section
15:20:32 [rsinger]
i'll join
15:20:36 [edsu]
15:21:06 [monica]
...2011-04-07 UC report discussion
15:21:31 [monica]
...previous discussion said there was too much to go in the report from the clusters
15:21:56 [monica]
...any volunteers for the job of aggregating use case clusters
15:22:02 [monica]
15:22:12 [monica] volunteers yet
15:22:57 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate antoine
15:23:06 [monica]
15:23:10 [monica]
15:23:18 [Zakim]
15:23:32 [emma]
ACTION: emma, TomB, and antoine to send a call for finding an owner of the UC deliverable [recorded in]
15:23:34 [emma]
15:23:53 [TomB]
q+ to point out that is not linked to or
15:24:07 [Zakim]
15:24:23 [emma]
ack tom
15:24:23 [Zakim]
TomB, you wanted to point out that is not linked to
15:24:25 [Zakim]
... or
15:25:16 [kcoyle]
15:25:21 [monica]
TomB: do we need to decide what to do with the contents of that page?
15:25:36 [monica]
Gordon: I thought what we agreed was that page would feed into problems and limitations
15:25:51 [emma]
ack k
15:25:53 [monica]
...I would tease out limitations ot feed into karen's work
15:26:13 [monica]
karen: we need to think about a question as we go through this - who is our audience?
15:26:45 [monica]
...what motivated Gordon to write this was a need to educate some adiences about realities int eh library enviroment that they may not be aware of
15:27:10 [monica]
...there is not much of this in problems and limitations, we need to decide how much background we give, which depends on who the audience is
15:27:26 [marcia]
15:27:30 [monica]
...librarians already understand some issues, others outside library will not be aware of them
15:27:34 [emma]
ack marc
15:27:55 [monica]
marcia: it would be useful to decide who the audience is
15:28:14 [monica]
...the title of the group is library data, much thinking on big libraries
15:28:20 [kcoyle]
15:28:23 [jar_]
"long tail" also important, yes
15:29:06 [emma]
ack k
15:29:11 [monica]
...principles of open bibliographic data is helpful
15:29:19 [rsinger]
15:29:23 [monica]
karen: I think we have not yet defined what we mean by library data
15:29:40 [monica]
...I have a short definition I cna share - people may not agree
15:29:41 [antoine]
lcf/ use cases!
15:30:02 [antoine]
cf use cases for "library data"
15:30:03 [monica]
15:30:29 [monica]
marcia: ??
15:30:40 [monica]
emma: yes we need to think about scope of report
15:31:21 [monica]
...2011-04-14 discussion on available data and vocabulary - antoine and jeff leading
15:31:23 [jeff__]
zakim, unmute me
15:31:23 [Zakim]
jeff__ should no longer be muted
15:31:28 [antoine]
15:31:39 [digikim_]
sorry, seems like I can't join the phone conference (due to being busy with other things currently) :-/
15:32:00 [monica]
antoine: it is not about gathering vocabulary and datasets yet
15:32:15 [monica]
...we tried to take into account what was said in the last call
15:32:34 [monica]
...we wanted to say something about representative datasets
15:32:51 [monica]
...use cases provide pointers to vocabs/datasets
15:33:09 [marcia]
monica: what I was speaking was about non-academic and national libraries. There are many informaiton centers, vertual libraries, digital collections that are not from those MARC or ISBD based. They produce more open bibliographic data.
15:33:54 [monica]
...people from other domains may be asking questions about the LOD - the cloud does not say everything
15:34:07 [monica]
...especially how people can contribute who are not from libraries
15:34:14 [marcia]
Monida: the example I used is the National Science Digital Library, which has very rich resource. The contributors are mostly not from the traditional, physical libraries.
15:34:17 [jar_]
+1. important to articulate the value proposition of LD (for someone)
15:34:55 [monica] we made reference to that LOD cloud
15:35:35 [monica]
...starting from the use cases we are gathering the data sets connected to the UCs
15:35:55 [monica] point in teh section will be to identify gaps also starting from UCs
15:36:02 [monica]
15:36:29 [edsu]
jar_: someone = cultural heritage institutions: libraries, archives, museums, etc
15:36:36 [TomB]
+1 sounds good
15:37:01 [monica]
...present as work in progress, tell people what they might expect in future
15:37:06 [jar_]
edsu: yes.
15:37:15 [monica]
...this could lead to recommendations
15:37:54 [monica]
...summary: aim of section, identify datasets, identify gaps, issues, work in progress
15:38:42 [monica]
...what we have gathered will be presented as snapshot
15:39:17 [monica]
...second part will be focused on CKAN LLD group to continue the effort
15:40:03 [monica]
...this section is flexible
15:40:52 [monica]
...we are suggesting that one of us liaise with R Cygniak
15:41:02 [TomB]
q+ to suggest that the snapshot be very "broad-brush" (i.e., not take much writing effort away from sections in the main report) because whatever list is presented in the dataset deliverable will very quickly go out of date
15:41:10 [monica]
...ask what they need from LLD
15:42:12 [monica]
ACTION: Antoine and jeff_ to make a proposal to the group about vocabularies and datasets [recorded in]
15:42:30 [monica]
...we will need people to help us
15:43:08 [monica]
...we welcome input on these sections - any of the sections or the separate deliverable
15:43:51 [monica]
...last week's telcon - people who made comments then are welcome to comment
15:44:02 [monica]
...but open to anyone to help with these sections
15:44:35 [rsinger]
i am
15:44:36 [marcia]
I am in
15:44:37 [monica]
15:44:42 [edsu]
ww_: we are talking about you :-)
15:44:54 [emma]
ack Tom
15:44:54 [Zakim]
TomB, you wanted to suggest that the snapshot be very "broad-brush" (i.e., not take much writing effort away from sections in the main report) because whatever list is presented in
15:44:58 [Zakim]
... the dataset deliverable will very quickly go out of date
15:45:35 [monica]
TomB: we need to keep an eye on the report
15:45:37 [ww_]
edsu: ack
15:45:42 [Zakim]
15:45:51 [jeff__]
15:46:16 [monica] will be itneresting for people reading the report to get a sense of what is out there, but as a resource it would get out of date
15:46:36 [kefo]
zakim, LC is me
15:46:36 [Zakim]
sorry, kefo, I do not recognize a party named 'LC'
15:46:37 [Zakim]
15:46:39 [kefo]
zakim, LC is me
15:46:39 [Zakim]
+kefo; got it
15:46:56 [kefo]
zakim, mute me please
15:46:56 [Zakim]
kefo should now be muted
15:46:58 [jeff__]
ack me
15:46:59 [emma]
ack je
15:47:06 [monica]
antoine: links to authority files, subject headings
15:47:24 [monica]
jeff: a snapshot helps becuase it gives you the idea that there is alot more going on and things are changing
15:47:31 [monica]
emma: last 10 minutes
15:47:33 [jeff__]
zakim, mute me
15:47:33 [Zakim]
jeff__ should now be muted
15:47:46 [rsinger]
a snapshot also gives a reference to build on
15:48:00 [monica]
...2011-04-21 discussion would be requirements and recommendations
15:48:06 [rsinger]
re: future snapshots
15:48:12 [antoine]
@rsinger: yes!
15:48:13 [kcoyle]
won't issues lead to that?
15:48:14 [monica] content yet we need to get a sense of what we would expect in teis section
15:48:52 [monica] we have specific expectations on this?
15:48:53 [kcoyle]
15:48:59 [emma]
ack k
15:49:00 [jar_]
You can't have requirements unless you've articulated what goal you're trying to reach. "X is required in order for ..."
15:49:08 [monica]
karen: we can't do requiqrements until we have doen issues
15:49:20 [monica]
15:49:39 [monica]
karen: the issues discussions will lead to how we approach requirements
15:49:52 [monica]
emma: we need to have something in mind, there are some placeholders
15:50:08 [monica]
...when working on other sections
15:50:11 [GordonD]
+1 to have indications of requirements from the work on the problems and limitations section
15:50:30 [GordonD]
+1 to separate requirements from recommendations
15:50:34 [monica]
...we should think about requirements, recommendations and what we would like to see happening
15:50:55 [GordonD]
Issues lead to requirements lead to recommendations
15:50:56 [monica]
karen: requirements and recommendations are different things but we need to have thought about the issues
15:51:17 [antoine]
q+ point 6 is not only about requirement-related recommendations
15:51:44 [monica]
...example recommendation would be to create another group
15:51:56 [emma]
ack ant
15:52:20 [monica]
antoine: was going to make similar points, some recommendations are not requirements-related
15:52:49 [monica] COlogne ?? had volunteered to write something about curricula
15:53:04 [monica]
...maybe we can contact him
15:53:11 [antoine]
s/??/Guenther Neher
15:53:37 [monica]
emma: agrees, outreach-related work questions discussion
15:53:51 [monica]
...may need to be addressed in a May call
15:54:06 [monica]
s/discussion/needs discussion/
15:54:19 [monica]
emma: we need to check all sections have been discussed once
15:54:29 [monica] MAy we will check that we ahve doen so
15:54:34 [GordonD]
This is a good schedule!
15:54:40 [monica]
...that leaves a few months
15:54:47 [monica]
15:54:57 [kcoyle]
it's good to HAVE a schedule to try to achieve
15:55:05 [monica]
emma: there are 4 topics without owners
15:55:56 [emma]
15:56:30 [monica] we keep in use case report, in appendix, as something else?
15:57:01 [monica]
...relevant technologies are important, people ask 'are there tools'
15:57:08 [kcoyle]
15:57:14 [emma]
ack k
15:57:42 [monica]
karen: tools will end up on the issues page - everyoen wants to know what are the tools we can use today, the lack of those tools will be one of the issues
15:57:48 [jeff__]
15:57:53 [emma]
ack jeff
15:57:54 [monica]
15:58:17 [jeff__]
zakim, unmute me
15:58:17 [Zakim]
jeff__ was not muted, jeff__
15:58:49 [monica]
jeff: tools available - we can provide pointers to the ones available, maye short descriptions
15:58:55 [monica]
15:58:55 [GordonD]
Relevant technologies are also volatile (like vocabularies/datasets) so suggest a similar treatment
15:59:01 [kcoyle]
jeff, can you make that list?
15:59:14 [kcoyle]
also, differ between tools for develoeprs and tools for users
15:59:20 [antoine]
15:59:26 [TomB]
jeff, that would be extremely valuable
15:59:27 [marcia]
Karen: FYI: The open ontology group's identified audiences for the messages we need to deliver: (i) policy makers, (ii) budget holders, (iii) Technology Decision Makers (CIOs and Architects), (iv) Implementers (engineers and developers), (v) users/consumers of the technology, and (vi) educators
15:59:31 [michaelp]
I was in there, too.
15:59:33 [monica]
emma: there was a pending action
15:59:39 [AlexanderH]
15:59:45 [emma]
ack alex
16:00:12 [monica]
AlexanderH: agrees this is important, but it is difficult to give recommendations for the far future
16:00:14 [jeff__]
zakim, mute me
16:00:14 [Zakim]
jeff__ should now be muted
16:00:28 [marcia]
Karen: That list might be a different detail level from what you were talking about the 'audiences'.
16:00:29 [antoine]
16:00:37 [emma]
ack ant
16:00:38 [jodi]
marcia: good list of audiences
16:00:47 [kcoyle]
marcia: i like that list, will think about
16:00:59 [Zakim]
16:01:02 [rsinger]
me too
16:01:14 [monica]
antoine: we could provide pointers, recommendation would be useful for community
16:01:19 [Zakim]
16:01:23 [TomB]
Any tools list will go out of date quickly but a list characterizing what is available in a broad-brush way would be helpful.
16:01:34 [antoine]
s/recommendation/recommendation for the close future
16:01:35 [kcoyle]
16:01:39 [Zakim]
16:01:40 [Zakim]
16:01:41 [Zakim]
16:01:41 [monica]
emma: thanks everyone
16:01:42 [AlexanderH]
htank u
16:01:42 [Zakim]
16:01:45 [kefo]
16:01:47 [antoine]
zakim, please list attendees
16:01:48 [Zakim]
16:01:49 [Zakim]
As of this point the attendees have been mduke, antoine, kcoyle, TomB?, rsinger, emma, +1.330.672.aaaa, jeff__, GordonD, marcia, michaelp, edsu, uldis, AlexanderH, jar_,
16:01:52 [jodi]
jodi has left #lld
16:01:53 [Zakim]
... +1.404.892.aabb, pmurray, rayd, kefo
16:01:55 [Zakim]
16:01:59 [Zakim]
16:02:06 [pmurray]
pmurray has left #lld
16:02:07 [Zakim]
16:02:07 [michaelp]
michaelp has left #lld
16:02:08 [Zakim]
16:02:12 [antoine]
rrsagent, please draft minutes
16:02:12 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate antoine
16:02:20 [Zakim]
16:02:22 [Zakim]
16:02:50 [antoine]
s/close future/next future
16:02:58 [antoine]
rrsagent, please draft minutes
16:02:58 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate antoine
16:03:23 [uldis]
uldis has left #lld
16:03:29 [Zakim]
16:03:39 [emma]
zakim, who's here ?
16:03:42 [Zakim]
On the phone I see antoine, TomB?, emma
16:05:10 [antoine]
16:07:25 [ww_]
antoine: Zakim is ignoring me
16:07:37 [antoine]
ww_: ok I'll send you a mail!
16:08:27 [ww_]
16:08:52 [antoine]
16:20:22 [antoine]
ACTION: Alex, Jeff, Martin, MichaelP elaborate on general purpose IT architecture for dealing with linked data with caching feature (short sketch for final report) [recorded in]
16:23:02 [TomB]
16:25:57 [Zakim]
16:26:00 [Zakim]
16:26:01 [Zakim]
16:26:02 [Zakim]
INC_LLDXG()10:00AM has ended
16:26:04 [Zakim]
Attendees were mduke, antoine, kcoyle, TomB?, rsinger, emma, +1.330.672.aaaa, jeff__, GordonD, marcia, michaelp, edsu, uldis, AlexanderH, jar_, +1.404.892.aabb, pmurray, rayd, kefo
17:29:11 [jar_]
jar_ has left #lld
18:31:48 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #lld