14:52:39 RRSAgent has joined #lld 14:52:39 logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/03/03-lld-irc 14:52:43 rrsagent, bookmark 14:52:43 See http://www.w3.org/2011/03/03-lld-irc#T14-52-43 14:52:50 zakim, this will be lld 14:52:50 ok, TomB, I see INC_LLDXG()10:00AM already started 14:52:58 Meeting: LLD XG 14:53:03 Chair: Emmanuelle 14:53:13 rrsagent, please make record public 14:53:39 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2011Mar/0007.html 14:53:54 Previous: http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/02/24-lld-minutes.html 14:54:05 Regrets: Felix 14:54:25 Scribe: monica 14:54:25 antoine has joined #lld 14:54:56 +[IPcaller] 14:54:59 Scribenick: monica 14:55:03 zakim, IPcaller is me 14:55:03 +antoine; got it 14:55:36 zakim, who is here? 14:55:36 On the phone I see mduke, antoine 14:55:40 jodi has joined #LLD 14:55:47 emma has joined #lld 14:55:50 jodi has left #LLD 14:55:50 AlexanderH has joined #lld 14:55:56 jodi has joined #lld 14:55:57 rsinger has joined #lld 14:56:04 zakim, code? 14:56:04 the conference code is 55394 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), antoine 14:56:16 rrsagent, please draft minutes 14:56:16 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/03/03-lld-minutes.html antoine 14:56:17 sorry for being late 14:56:27 GordonD has joined #lld 14:56:44 +[IPcaller] 14:56:51 +??P3 14:57:17 zakim, ??P3 14:57:17 I don't understand '??P3', antoine 14:57:22 zakim, ??P3 is kcoyle 14:57:22 +kcoyle; got it 14:57:26 zakim, IPcaller is probably TomB 14:57:26 +TomB?; got it 14:57:36 +[IPcaller] 14:57:59 +jeff_ 14:58:02 +rsinger 14:58:11 zakim, ipcaller is me 14:58:11 +emma; got it 14:58:34 zakim, who's here ? 14:58:34 On the phone I see mduke, antoine, TomB?, kcoyle, emma, jeff_, rsinger 14:58:45 zakim, mute me 14:58:45 sorry, jeff__, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you 14:58:50 michaelp has joined #lld 14:58:57 + +1.330.672.aaaa - is perhaps marcia? 14:58:59 jar_ has joined #lld 14:59:01 zakim, jeff_ is me 14:59:01 +jeff__; got it 14:59:06 zakim, mute me 14:59:06 jeff__ should now be muted 14:59:07 zakim, aaaa is marcia 14:59:07 sorry, antoine, I do not recognize a party named 'aaaa' 14:59:19 +??P9 14:59:21 +jeff__.a 14:59:36 zakim, ??P9 is GordonD 14:59:36 +GordonD; got it 14:59:46 marcia has joined #lld 15:00:01 zakim, who is here? 15:00:01 On the phone I see mduke, antoine, TomB?, kcoyle, emma, jeff__ (muted), rsinger, marcia, GordonD (muted), michaelp 15:00:06 uldis has joined #lld 15:00:57 +jar 15:01:10 +[LC] 15:01:27 zakim, LC is edsu 15:01:27 +edsu; got it 15:01:36 +??P17 15:01:38 +??P12 15:01:46 zakim, ??P17 is uldis 15:01:46 +uldis; got it 15:01:53 zakim, ??P12 is AlexanderH 15:01:53 +AlexanderH; got it 15:01:55 Zakim, ww_ is ww 15:01:57 rayd has joined #lld 15:01:57 sorry, ww_, I do not recognize a party named 'ww_' 15:02:14 zakim, jar_ is jar 15:02:14 sorry, antoine, I do not recognize a party named 'jar_' 15:02:14 RRSAgent: present: ww_ 15:02:14 I'm logging. I don't understand 'present: ww_ ', ww_. Try /msg RRSAgent help 15:02:26 zakim, jar is jar_ 15:02:26 +jar_; got it 15:02:38 pmurray has joined #lld 15:03:02 PROPOSED: To accept http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/02/24-lld-minutes.html 15:03:17 --approved 15:03:21 --accepted 15:03:21 + +1.404.892.aabb 15:03:29 zakim, aabb is pmurray 15:03:32 ACCEPTED 15:03:34 +pmurray; got it 15:03:49 s/write/right/ 15:03:54 +[LC] 15:04:00 zakim, LC is rayd 15:04:04 jar_ has changed the topic to: http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/RunningAgenda (jar_) 15:04:10 +rayd; got it 15:04:42 only 10 telcons left agenda now lists all the telcons with chair and a proposed topic for each telcon 15:04:58 s/only/emma: only/ 15:05:11 ...would like to discuss this proposed schedule 15:05:43 ...first introducing telcon for Asia participants - invites TomB to introduce 15:06:14 TomB: Monday or Tuesday depending on location 15:06:38 -mduke 15:06:42 ... 10 people expected no agenda topics suggested so far 15:07:13 TomB: looking for agenda ideas 15:07:32 ... other wise informal discussion 15:07:52 ... we don't have a scribe yet, late for the US 15:08:07 Can we have two scribers -- we are not familiar with the coming participants and not sure whether will be able to understand them? 15:08:35 +mduke 15:08:39 ... could be difficult to understand 15:09:21 emma: suggests during the meeting we should discuss the content of the report 15:09:27 +1 15:09:34 TomB: agrees 15:10:02 TOPIC FINAL REPORT DRAFT 15:10:22 emma: agenda proposes contents of report discussed in the upcoming telcons 15:10:43 ...someone to lead the discussion of the contents (each section) 15:10:50 ...assuming we agree on contents 15:11:14 ...we need ot check we have owners for each section of the report 15:11:19 s/ot/to/ 15:11:33 -uldis 15:11:37 ...owner could be doing aggregation or summarising 15:12:06 ...some people are more comfortable with writing than others 15:12:14 +??P17 15:12:27 digikim_ has joined #lld 15:12:28 ...we need to have text in each section 15:12:42 marcia: re two scribes -- perhaps one of them from Asia-Pacific region/timezone 15:12:43 zakim, ??P17 is maybe digikim_ 15:12:43 I don't understand '??P17 is maybe digikim_', antoine 15:12:52 antoine: that's me 15:12:58 zakim, ??P17 is uldis 15:12:58 +uldis; got it 15:13:00 Zakim, ??P17 is me 15:13:00 I already had ??P17 as uldis, uldis 15:13:09 ...we can now review the list of telcons alongside the outline of report contents 15:13:13 emma - plan sounds good 15:13:16 ..any comments? 15:13:40 kefo has joined #lld 15:13:44 +[LC] 15:13:46 zakim, LC is me 15:13:46 +kefo; got it 15:13:54 http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/DraftReportReviewerAssignments 15:13:55 zakim, mute me please 15:13:55 kefo should now be muted 15:14:15 ...I am trying to clarify what we are asking owners to do - could be writing or other tasks 15:14:29 uldis: Not sure who will be there... looks like only 2-3 and maybe they need to speak. 15:14:39 +1 15:15:30 +1 15:15:35 ...according to schedule, next week's discussion will eb data issues led by Gordon 15:15:40 seeb/be/ 15:15:51 s/eb/be/ 15:16:51 ...then will be discussion on problems and limitations, 2 telcons, led by karen 15:17:08 karen: agrees two telcons is a good idea 15:17:10 +1 for 2 slots for problems and limitations 15:17:52 q+ to confirm that Gordon for "library data issues" next week means http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Cluster_BibData ...? 15:18:04 on 2011-03-31 discussion would be on LLD Benefits, owned by Ed and Emma 15:18:17 ack to 15:18:17 TomB, you wanted to confirm that Gordon for "library data issues" next week means http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Cluster_BibData ...? 15:18:34 no it is http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Library_standards_and_linked_data 15:18:41 ...2011-04-27 discussion on use cases 15:18:48 TomB: ?? 15:19:40 edsu: agrees on date 15:20:28 emma: invites others to join in benefits of LLD section 15:20:32 i'll join 15:20:36 rsinger++ 15:21:06 ...2011-04-07 UC report discussion 15:21:31 ...previous discussion said there was too much to go in the report from the clusters 15:21:56 ...any volunteers for the job of aggregating use case clusters 15:22:02 ...? 15:22:12 ...no volunteers yet 15:22:57 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/03/03-lld-minutes.html antoine 15:23:06 ACTION http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/02/24-lld-minutes.html#action06 15:23:10 --continues 15:23:18 -mduke 15:23:32 ACTION: emma, TomB, and antoine to send a call for finding an owner of the UC deliverable [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/02/24-lld-minutes.html#action07] 15:23:34 --continues 15:23:53 q+ to point out that http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Library_standards_and_linked_data is not linked to http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/DraftReport or http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/DraftReportReviewerAssignments 15:24:07 +mduke 15:24:23 ack tom 15:24:23 TomB, you wanted to point out that http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Library_standards_and_linked_data is not linked to 15:24:25 ... http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/DraftReport or http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/DraftReportReviewerAssignments 15:25:16 q+ 15:25:21 TomB: do we need to decide what to do with the contents of that page? 15:25:36 Gordon: I thought what we agreed was that page would feed into problems and limitations 15:25:51 ack k 15:25:53 ...I would tease out limitations ot feed into karen's work 15:26:13 karen: we need to think about a question as we go through this - who is our audience? 15:26:45 ...what motivated Gordon to write this was a need to educate some adiences about realities int eh library enviroment that they may not be aware of 15:27:10 ...there is not much of this in problems and limitations, we need to decide how much background we give, which depends on who the audience is 15:27:26 q+ 15:27:30 ...librarians already understand some issues, others outside library will not be aware of them 15:27:34 ack marc 15:27:55 marcia: it would be useful to decide who the audience is 15:28:14 ...the title of the group is library data, much thinking on big libraries 15:28:20 q+ 15:28:23 "long tail" also important, yes 15:29:06 ack k 15:29:11 ...principles of open bibliographic data is helpful 15:29:19 +1 15:29:23 karen: I think we have not yet defined what we mean by library data 15:29:40 ...I have a short definition I cna share - people may not agree 15:29:41 lcf/ use cases! 15:30:02 cf use cases for "library data" 15:30:03 s/cna/can/ 15:30:29 marcia: ?? 15:30:40 emma: yes we need to think about scope of report 15:31:21 ...2011-04-14 discussion on available data and vocabulary - antoine and jeff leading 15:31:23 zakim, unmute me 15:31:23 jeff__ should no longer be muted 15:31:28 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2011Mar/0006.html 15:31:39 sorry, seems like I can't join the phone conference (due to being busy with other things currently) :-/ 15:32:00 antoine: it is not about gathering vocabulary and datasets yet 15:32:15 ...we tried to take into account what was said in the last call 15:32:34 ...we wanted to say something about representative datasets 15:32:51 ...use cases provide pointers to vocabs/datasets 15:33:09 monica: what I was speaking was about non-academic and national libraries. There are many informaiton centers, vertual libraries, digital collections that are not from those MARC or ISBD based. They produce more open bibliographic data. 15:33:54 ...people from other domains may be asking questions about the LOD - the cloud does not say everything 15:34:07 ...especially how people can contribute who are not from libraries 15:34:14 Monida: the example I used is the National Science Digital Library, which has very rich resource. The contributors are mostly not from the traditional, physical libraries. 15:34:17 +1. important to articulate the value proposition of LD (for someone) 15:34:55 ...next we made reference to that LOD cloud 15:35:35 ...starting from the use cases we are gathering the data sets connected to the UCs 15:35:55 ...next point in teh section will be to identify gaps also starting from UCs 15:36:02 s/teh/the/ 15:36:29 jar_: someone = cultural heritage institutions: libraries, archives, museums, etc 15:36:36 +1 sounds good 15:37:01 ...present as work in progress, tell people what they might expect in future 15:37:06 edsu: yes. 15:37:15 ...this could lead to recommendations 15:37:54 ...summary: aim of section, identify datasets, identify gaps, issues, work in progress 15:38:42 ...what we have gathered will be presented as snapshot 15:39:17 ...second part will be focused on CKAN LLD group to continue the effort 15:40:03 ...this section is flexible 15:40:52 ...we are suggesting that one of us liaise with R Cygniak 15:41:02 q+ to suggest that the snapshot be very "broad-brush" (i.e., not take much writing effort away from sections in the main report) because whatever list is presented in the dataset deliverable will very quickly go out of date 15:41:10 ...ask what they need from LLD 15:42:12 ACTION: Antoine and jeff_ to make a proposal to the group about vocabularies and datasets [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/02/24-lld-minutes.html#action08] 15:42:30 ...we will need people to help us 15:43:08 ...we welcome input on these sections - any of the sections or the separate deliverable 15:43:51 ...last week's telcon - people who made comments then are welcome to comment 15:44:02 ...but open to anyone to help with these sections 15:44:35 i am 15:44:36 I am in 15:44:37 --continues 15:44:42 ww_: we are talking about you :-) 15:44:54 ack Tom 15:44:54 TomB, you wanted to suggest that the snapshot be very "broad-brush" (i.e., not take much writing effort away from sections in the main report) because whatever list is presented in 15:44:58 ... the dataset deliverable will very quickly go out of date 15:45:35 TomB: we need to keep an eye on the report 15:45:37 edsu: ack 15:45:42 -kefo 15:45:51 q+ 15:46:16 ...it will be itneresting for people reading the report to get a sense of what is out there, but as a resource it would get out of date 15:46:36 zakim, LC is me 15:46:36 sorry, kefo, I do not recognize a party named 'LC' 15:46:37 +[LC] 15:46:39 zakim, LC is me 15:46:39 +kefo; got it 15:46:56 zakim, mute me please 15:46:56 kefo should now be muted 15:46:58 ack me 15:46:59 ack je 15:47:06 antoine: links to authority files, subject headings 15:47:24 jeff: a snapshot helps becuase it gives you the idea that there is alot more going on and things are changing 15:47:31 emma: last 10 minutes 15:47:33 zakim, mute me 15:47:33 jeff__ should now be muted 15:47:46 a snapshot also gives a reference to build on 15:48:00 ...2011-04-21 discussion would be requirements and recommendations 15:48:06 re: future snapshots 15:48:12 @rsinger: yes! 15:48:13 won't issues lead to that? 15:48:14 ...no content yet we need to get a sense of what we would expect in teis section 15:48:52 ...do we have specific expectations on this? 15:48:53 q+ 15:48:59 ack k 15:49:00 You can't have requirements unless you've articulated what goal you're trying to reach. "X is required in order for ..." 15:49:08 karen: we can't do requiqrements until we have doen issues 15:49:20 s/doen/done/ 15:49:39 karen: the issues discussions will lead to how we approach requirements 15:49:52 emma: we need to have something in mind, there are some placeholders 15:50:08 ...when working on other sections 15:50:11 +1 to have indications of requirements from the work on the problems and limitations section 15:50:30 +1 to separate requirements from recommendations 15:50:34 ...we should think about requirements, recommendations and what we would like to see happening 15:50:55 Issues lead to requirements lead to recommendations 15:50:56 karen: requirements and recommendations are different things but we need to have thought about the issues 15:51:17 q+ point 6 is not only about requirement-related recommendations 15:51:44 ...example recommendation would be to create another group 15:51:56 ack ant 15:52:20 antoine: was going to make similar points, some recommendations are not requirements-related 15:52:49 ...in COlogne ?? had volunteered to write something about curricula 15:53:04 ...maybe we can contact him 15:53:11 s/??/Guenther Neher 15:53:37 emma: agrees, outreach-related work questions discussion 15:53:51 ...may need to be addressed in a May call 15:54:06 s/discussion/needs discussion/ 15:54:19 emma: we need to check all sections have been discussed once 15:54:29 ...in MAy we will check that we ahve doen so 15:54:34 This is a good schedule! 15:54:40 ...that leaves a few months 15:54:47 s/MAy/May/ 15:54:57 it's good to HAVE a schedule to try to achieve 15:55:05 emma: there are 4 topics without owners 15:55:56 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2011Feb/0034.html 15:56:30 ...do we keep in use case report, in appendix, as something else? 15:57:01 ...relevant technologies are important, people ask 'are there tools' 15:57:08 q+ 15:57:14 ack k 15:57:42 karen: tools will end up on the issues page - everyoen wants to know what are the tools we can use today, the lack of those tools will be one of the issues 15:57:48 q+ 15:57:53 ack jeff 15:57:54 s/everyoen/everyone/ 15:58:17 zakim, unmute me 15:58:17 jeff__ was not muted, jeff__ 15:58:49 jeff: tools available - we can provide pointers to the ones available, maye short descriptions 15:58:55 s/maye/maybe/ 15:58:55 Relevant technologies are also volatile (like vocabularies/datasets) so suggest a similar treatment 15:59:01 jeff, can you make that list? 15:59:14 also, differ between tools for develoeprs and tools for users 15:59:20 http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/24-lld-minutes.html#action04 15:59:26 jeff, that would be extremely valuable 15:59:27 Karen: FYI: The open ontology group's identified audiences for the messages we need to deliver: (i) policy makers, (ii) budget holders, (iii) Technology Decision Makers (CIOs and Architects), (iv) Implementers (engineers and developers), (v) users/consumers of the technology, and (vi) educators 15:59:31 I was in there, too. 15:59:33 emma: there was a pending action 15:59:39 q+ 15:59:45 ack alex 16:00:12 AlexanderH: agrees this is important, but it is difficult to give recommendations for the far future 16:00:14 zakim, mute me 16:00:14 jeff__ should now be muted 16:00:28 Karen: That list might be a different detail level from what you were talking about the 'audiences'. 16:00:29 q+ 16:00:37 ack ant 16:00:38 marcia: good list of audiences 16:00:47 marcia: i like that list, will think about 16:00:59 -edsu 16:01:02 me too 16:01:14 antoine: we could provide pointers, recommendation would be useful for community 16:01:19 -rsinger 16:01:23 Any tools list will go out of date quickly but a list characterizing what is available in a broad-brush way would be helpful. 16:01:34 s/recommendation/recommendation for the close future 16:01:35 thanks! 16:01:39 -GordonD 16:01:40 -rayd 16:01:41 -uldis 16:01:41 emma: thanks everyone 16:01:42 htank u 16:01:42 -jeff__ 16:01:45 bye 16:01:47 zakim, please list attendees 16:01:48 -pmurray 16:01:49 As of this point the attendees have been mduke, antoine, kcoyle, TomB?, rsinger, emma, +1.330.672.aaaa, jeff__, GordonD, marcia, michaelp, edsu, uldis, AlexanderH, jar_, 16:01:52 jodi has left #lld 16:01:53 ... +1.404.892.aabb, pmurray, rayd, kefo 16:01:55 -kcoyle 16:01:59 -kefo 16:02:06 pmurray has left #lld 16:02:07 -jar_ 16:02:07 michaelp has left #lld 16:02:08 -AlexanderH 16:02:12 rrsagent, please draft minutes 16:02:12 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/03/03-lld-minutes.html antoine 16:02:20 -marcia 16:02:22 -michaelp 16:02:50 s/close future/next future 16:02:58 rrsagent, please draft minutes 16:02:58 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/03/03-lld-minutes.html antoine 16:03:23 uldis has left #lld 16:03:29 -mduke 16:03:39 zakim, who's here ? 16:03:42 On the phone I see antoine, TomB?, emma 16:05:10 ww_? 16:07:25 antoine: Zakim is ignoring me 16:07:37 ww_: ok I'll send you a mail! 16:08:27 volontier! 16:08:52 :-) 16:20:22 ACTION: Alex, Jeff, Martin, MichaelP elaborate on general purpose IT architecture for dealing with linked data with caching feature (short sketch for final report) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/24-lld-minutes.html#action04] 16:23:02 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2011Feb/0034.html 16:25:57 -antoine 16:26:00 -TomB? 16:26:01 -emma 16:26:02 INC_LLDXG()10:00AM has ended 16:26:04 Attendees were mduke, antoine, kcoyle, TomB?, rsinger, emma, +1.330.672.aaaa, jeff__, GordonD, marcia, michaelp, edsu, uldis, AlexanderH, jar_, +1.404.892.aabb, pmurray, rayd, kefo 17:29:11 jar_ has left #lld 18:31:48 Zakim has left #lld