19:57:58 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #html-a11y
19:57:58 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/02/28-html-a11y-irc
19:58:00 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
19:58:00 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #html-a11y
19:58:02 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 2119
19:58:02 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_PFWG(A11Y)3:00PM scheduled to start in 2 minutes
19:58:03 <trackbot> Meeting: HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
19:58:03 <trackbot> Date: 28 February 2011
19:58:23 <Zakim> WAI_PFWG(A11Y)3:00PM has now started
19:58:30 <Zakim> +Rich
20:01:12 <richardschwerdtfe> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-canvas-api/2011JanMar/0075.html
20:01:35 <Zakim> +Chuck_Pritchard
20:01:52 <richardschwerdtfe> scribe: Rich
20:02:37 <richardschwerdtfe> Meeting: HTML 5 Canvas Accessibility subteam meeting
20:02:41 <richardschwerdtfe> chair: Rich
20:02:43 <Downchuck> Downchuck has joined #html-a11y
20:03:10 <richardschwerdtfe> Topic: Bounding Rectangles Fallback content
20:04:02 <richardschwerdtfe> Rich: I have been thinking about coords
20:04:56 <richardschwerdtfe> Chuck: I have been using CSS to give it a rectangle but it works rather well
20:05:16 <richardschwerdtfe> Chuck: The value of CSS is that if canvas could not be drawn it could be used
20:05:53 <richardschwerdtfe> Chuck: The SVG group is working on on accessibility as well
20:06:21 <richardschwerdtfe> Chuck: The best thing would be if the AT could send a request to the scripting environment
20:07:16 <richardschwerdtfe> Chuck: It sounds like focus ring would work but we are talking about access to things that do not have focus
20:07:28 <richardschwerdtfe> Rich: Correct. That is what AISquared wanted
20:08:10 <richardschwerdtfe> Chuck: I see what they want but I am trying to find an elegant way of doing it
20:08:26 <richardschwerdtfe> Chuck: it really should be callback based
20:08:44 <richardschwerdtfe> Chuck: There are ways for the AT to walk the DOM. 
20:09:13 <richardschwerdtfe> Rich: moving focus to get things messes up the user experience
20:09:31 <richardschwerdtfe> Chuck: I think for zoomtext that there are features they can use to get what they want
20:09:53 <richardschwerdtfe> Chuck: This does not quite fix how canvas works
20:10:40 <richardschwerdtfe> Chuck: Instead of putting all the things in the DOM I add or remove things from the DOM. 
20:11:17 <richardschwerdtfe> Rich: If you pull things out of the DOM this could mess up review mode
20:11:41 <richardschwerdtfe> Chuck: the situation where you treat all elements like a list it is more canvas like
20:12:00 <richardschwerdtfe> Chuck: I can say I have all of these and I need to rotate them all
20:13:04 <richardschwerdtfe> Chuck: SVG benefits from being bound to the drawing surface
20:13:14 <richardschwerdtfe> Rich: HTML is the same way. We just are not bound.
20:14:44 <richardschwerdtfe> Rich: is there a way to create an object in canvas that could be bound to the corresponding fallback object. 
20:15:33 <richardschwerdtfe> Chuck: there is only one object for the canvas
20:16:23 <richardschwerdtfe> Chuck: if you are looking at an entire haptic screen ... 
20:16:31 <richardschwerdtfe> Chuck: a Braille devices is more text based
20:16:40 <richardschwerdtfe> Chuck: I could use some use cases.
20:16:55 <richardschwerdtfe> Chuck: At this point it is mostly a touch based screen
20:18:08 <richardschwerdtfe> Chuck: there is no real drawing object. There is just drawing primitives. There is no positioning information
20:18:41 <richardschwerdtfe> Rich: I wonder what the value would be if we had a drawing object.
20:19:02 <richardschwerdtfe> Chuck: Has a create path item in Canvas API 2.0
20:20:23 <richardschwerdtfe> Rich: it might be a good thing to create a collection of drawing functions into an object and compute the bounding rectangle
20:20:43 <richardschwerdtfe> Chuck: Essentially, the SVG path provides a similar function
20:21:20 <richardschwerdtfe> Chuck: ARIA is rich enough. If you set an ARIA tag on an element then you do this ...
20:21:35 <richardschwerdtfe> Chuck: right now I am going through my mac. etc.
20:21:52 <richardschwerdtfe> Chuck: there is nothing in these ATs that require that yet
20:22:06 <richardschwerdtfe> Chuck: The text finder in Zoomtext is the closest. It uses focus
20:22:30 <richardschwerdtfe> Rich: I will look at SVG path
20:22:34 <richardschwerdtfe> Chuck: OK
20:22:55 <richardschwerdtfe> Chuck: it is perfectly valid to use the SVG path.
20:23:41 <richardschwerdtfe> Topic: Caret Simulator
20:23:53 <richardschwerdtfe> Chuck: I have been working on it in darkroom
20:24:14 <richardschwerdtfe> Chuck: the drawfocus ring using divs does work
20:24:47 <richardschwerdtfe> Chuck: I put a div in a div in contenteditable and got the caret blinking
20:25:22 <richardschwerdtfe> Chuck: I set the text color to be transparent. I used absolute positioning. 
20:25:42 <richardschwerdtfe> Chuck: It worked
20:26:35 <richardschwerdtfe> Topic: Outstanding defects 11328, 11329, 11342
20:26:43 <richardschwerdtfe> Chuck: Nothing has happened yet
20:26:54 <richardschwerdtfe> Chuck: no success yet
20:27:32 <richardschwerdtfe> Rich: I will look at SVG paths
20:27:57 <richardschwerdtfe> Chuck: I will modify darkroom demo to address moving your mouse over something to hear what is going on. 
20:28:04 <richardschwerdtfe> RRSAgent, make log public
20:28:11 <richardschwerdtfe> RRSAgent, draft minutes
20:28:11 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/02/28-html-a11y-minutes.html richardschwerdtfe
20:34:54 <Zakim> -Rich
20:34:56 <Zakim> -Chuck_Pritchard
20:34:56 <Zakim> WAI_PFWG(A11Y)3:00PM has ended
20:34:57 <Zakim> Attendees were Rich, Chuck_Pritchard
20:35:38 <Downchuck> might try to track down some bspin devs
20:35:54 <Downchuck> they weren't treated very well in mozilla for their use of canvas; but they have good input on things
20:37:00 <richardschwerdtfe> zakim, bye
20:37:00 <Zakim> Zakim has left #html-a11y
20:37:23 <richardschwerdtfe> RRSAgent, draft minutes
20:37:23 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/02/28-html-a11y-minutes.html richardschwerdtfe