14:58:08 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #hcg
14:58:08 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/02/25-hcg-irc
14:58:10 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs member
14:58:10 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #hcg
14:58:12 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be HTML_CG
14:58:12 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see HTML_CG()10:00AM scheduled to start in 2 minutes
14:58:13 <trackbot> Meeting: Hypertext Coordination Group Teleconference
14:58:13 <trackbot> Date: 25 February 2011
14:58:28 <ddahl> ddahl has joined #hcg
14:58:40 <ddahl> rrsagent, start telcon
14:58:40 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'start telcon', ddahl.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
14:58:41 <plh> plh has joined #hcg
14:59:15 <Zakim> HTML_CG()10:00AM has now started
14:59:22 <Zakim> +Debbie_Dahl
14:59:24 <Steven> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-html-cg/2011JanMar/0055
14:59:37 <Steven> Steven has changed the topic to: Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-html-cg/2011JanMar/0055
14:59:43 <ddahl> chair: Debbie_Dahl
15:00:05 <kaz> kaz has joined #hcg
15:00:06 <Zakim> +Plh
15:00:11 <kaz> zakim, code?
15:00:11 <Zakim> the conference code is 4824 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), kaz
15:00:16 <Steven> zakim, dial steven-617
15:00:16 <Zakim> ok, Steven; the call is being made
15:00:18 <Zakim> +Steven
15:00:25 <Zakim> +??P4
15:00:29 <kaz> zakim, ??P4 is me
15:00:29 <Zakim> +kaz; got it
15:00:41 <kaz> zakim, who is here?
15:00:41 <Zakim> On the phone I see Debbie_Dahl, Plh, Steven, kaz
15:00:42 <Zakim> On IRC I see kaz, plh, ddahl, Zakim, RRSAgent, rubys, Steven, shepazu, plinss, ed_, trackbot
15:01:33 <Zakim> +Doug_Schepers
15:01:53 <paulc> paulc has joined #hcg
15:03:43 <Steven> zakim, who is on the call?
15:03:43 <Zakim> On the phone I see Debbie_Dahl, Plh, Steven, kaz, Doug_Schepers
15:03:56 <paulc> joining by phone in a couple of minutes
15:05:05 <kaz> Meeting: HCG
15:05:08 <kaz> Chair: Debbie
15:05:11 <kaz> Scribe: Kaz
15:05:15 <kaz> scribenick: kaz
15:05:31 <kaz> topic: action items
15:05:59 <kaz> action-64?
15:05:59 <trackbot> ACTION-64 -- Chris Lilley to ask for a Wiki for HCG -- due 2011-02-18 -- OPEN
15:05:59 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/CoordGroup/track/actions/64
15:06:14 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
15:06:20 <kaz> debbie: Chris said he would talk with Doug about this
15:06:27 <kaz> doug: no he has not yet contacted me
15:06:33 <paulc> zakim, [Microsoft] has paulc
15:06:33 <Zakim> +paulc; got it
15:06:38 <kaz> ... will send him an email
15:06:41 <kaz> debbie: ok
15:06:42 <Zakim> +Bert
15:07:33 <kaz> topic: HTML5 and WebIDL
15:08:08 <kaz> plh: geolocation moving to PR, CSS Selecter, etc. are blocked
15:08:09 <paulc> We have external groups with references to HTML5 that also have this problem.
15:08:51 <kaz> ... HTML5 will not get Rec before 2014
15:09:10 <kaz> ... need to remove normative reference
15:09:10 <paulc> For example I attended a JTC1 SC34 meeting on EPUB.  EPUB 3 is moving to refer to the W3C specs like HTML5 and CSS 2/3.
15:10:06 <kaz> plh: 20 different reference to HTML5
15:10:16 <kaz> s/reference/references/
15:10:50 <ddahl> phl: could cut and paste from HTML5 spec to other specs, HTML WG could publish a Note
15:10:55 <kaz> i/plh:/debbie: can we move normative references to WG Note?/
15:11:10 <kaz> s/phl:/plh:/
15:11:25 <plh> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-web-perf/2011Feb/0036.html
15:11:38 <kaz> plh: Web Performance WG discussion
15:11:46 <kaz> ... 23 different references
15:12:30 <paulc> q+
15:12:46 <kaz> [ the above message is on "Blocker for PR: links to HTML5 spec" ]
15:13:16 <kaz> plh: we can't move HTML5 to REC right now
15:13:37 <kaz> paulc: I attended a JTC1 SC34 meeting on EPUB.
15:14:23 <kaz> ... I think Mike Smith has talked with them
15:14:45 <kaz> [ EPUB 3 is moving to refer to the W3C specs like HTML5 and CSS 2/3 ]
15:16:20 <kaz> paulc: Microsoft has many external standardization works
15:16:25 <kaz> ... e.g., DLNA
15:16:45 <kaz> ... what I explained about the HTML5 LC schedule was
15:16:56 <kaz> ... they want a stable spec to refer
15:17:03 <kaz> s/refer/refer to/
15:17:30 <kaz> plh: new features are to move to WebIDL spec
15:18:40 <kaz> plh: f2f meeting a month ago
15:18:48 <kaz> ... they reached some idea there
15:19:09 <kaz> ... did not have all the features we needed
15:19:35 <Bert> Bert has joined #hcg
15:19:57 <kaz> ... plenty of specs which refer to WebIDL...
15:20:35 <kaz> debbie: cut&paste (moving to WG Note) sounds good?
15:20:37 <paulc> q?
15:20:43 <paulc> ack paulc
15:20:52 <kaz> paul: only one another solution
15:20:59 <kaz> ... XQuery, etc. solution
15:21:16 <kaz> ... simultaneously done as REC
15:21:46 <kaz> plh: we could move all the specs to PR
15:22:51 <paulc> What is the Director's view on normative references?  Can they be one step behind the referencing document?
15:22:58 <kaz> debbie: 5 years ago, IETF cut&pasted MRCP spec
15:23:20 <ddahl> MRCP used NLSML, but now we have EMMA
15:23:44 <ddahl> there are two specs that do basically the same thing, but it hasn't caused many problems in practice
15:23:50 <kaz> paulc: what is W3C's view on normative references?
15:24:24 <kaz> ... in the W3C, one step prior to REC is PR
15:24:54 <kaz> plh: we might be able to let it go
15:25:12 <kaz> ... but have not got Director's dicision
15:26:03 <kaz> paulc: e.g., the relation between SQL and COBOL was little
15:26:30 <kaz> ... but the relation between HTML5 and Web Notification is intimate, and the risk is high
15:26:31 <paulc> interesting problem!
15:27:02 <kaz> debbie: any other comments?
15:27:47 <kaz> paulc: we're our own enemy...
15:29:32 <kaz> kaz: today's minutes should be public or not?
15:29:42 <kaz> plh: ok for public
15:30:11 <kaz> ... web performance message referred to is also public
15:30:42 <kaz> debbie: there was another example of VoiceXML blocked by SRGS etc.
15:31:10 <kaz> ... asked people to implement
15:31:42 <kaz> plh: Web Performance has 2 implementations
15:32:13 <kaz> paulc: Web Performance group has not reached conclusion
15:32:33 <kaz> ... HTML group can cut&paste the normative reference part
15:32:55 <kaz> ... can I go skiing this weekend ;)
15:33:33 <kaz> paulc: another topic
15:33:39 <kaz> ... registry discussion
15:33:56 <kaz> i/paulc:/topic: Registry discussion/
15:34:11 <kaz> plh: I was invited to registry discussion a few weeks ago
15:34:31 <kaz> ... W3C is considering to create a registry within W3C
15:35:19 <kaz> ... we have many media types which are not yet registered with IANA
15:35:32 <kaz> ... various reasons
15:36:25 <kaz> ... Larry Masn(?) got an action item to consider this topic
15:37:16 <kaz> paulc: discussion at Plague IETF conference as well
15:37:23 <kaz> ... March 27-April 1
15:37:35 <kaz> ... one week after XML Plague
15:37:51 <kaz> ... so having HCG discussion after that (in April) would be better
15:38:00 <kaz> debbie: April 8?
15:38:10 <paulc> http://www.ietf.org/meeting/80/index.html
15:38:25 <kaz> paulc: the above is link to IETF meeting
15:39:09 <kaz> s/Larry Masn(?)/Larry Masinter/
15:39:29 <kaz> ... pretty controversial topic
15:39:46 <kaz> ... would W3C consider to hold a registry?
15:40:06 <kaz> ... IETF procedure/timeline is too long
15:40:37 <kaz> ... that's why somebody like Larry and somebody like plh should be involved
15:41:27 <kaz> debbie: sounds like what we need to do is we invite Larry to April 8 HCG call
15:41:35 <kaz> paulc: that's a draft plan
15:42:06 <kaz> debbie: and plh, who regularly participates in the call, as well
15:42:22 <paulc> paulc has left #hcg
15:43:15 <kaz> ... Kaz, you want to invite somebody from VBWG?
15:43:25 <paulc> paulc has joined #hcg
15:43:47 <kaz> kaz: James Barnett, the SCXML editor, and Dan Burnett, the SSML 1.1 editor (and VBWG chair)
15:44:15 <kaz> ... because SCXML's type attribute needs some registry, and SSML 1.1 expects a registry at IANA
15:44:35 <kaz> debbie: XBL discussion?
15:45:49 <kaz> doug: talked with Art Barstow and no problem
15:46:23 <kaz> ... if the spec needs extension, they can extend the spec
15:46:55 <kaz> ... that doesn't mean the extension can automatically get implementations
15:47:58 <shepazu> s/if the spec needs extension, they can extend the spec/the core XBL spec can be defined by the WebApps WG, and other groups who need more functionality can simply extend that core spec in their own specification/
15:48:15 <Zakim> -Plh
15:48:17 <Zakim> -Steven
15:48:19 <Zakim> -Debbie_Dahl
15:48:21 <Zakim> -Doug_Schepers
15:48:22 <Zakim> -kaz
15:48:29 <Zakim> -Bert
15:48:49 <kaz> zakim, who is online?
15:48:49 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, kaz.
15:48:53 <kaz> zakim, who is here?
15:48:53 <Zakim> On the phone I see [Microsoft]
15:48:54 <Zakim> [Microsoft] has paulc
15:48:56 <Zakim> On IRC I see paulc, Bert, kaz, plh, ddahl, Zakim, RRSAgent, rubys, Steven, shepazu, plinss, ed_, trackbot
15:49:28 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:49:28 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/02/25-hcg-minutes.html kaz
15:50:49 <ddahl> we didn't actually confirm that we agreed to make the minutes public, are there any objections?
15:54:32 <kaz> zakim, who is here?
15:54:32 <Zakim> On the phone I see [Microsoft]
15:54:33 <Zakim> [Microsoft] has paulc
15:54:34 <Zakim> On IRC I see paulc, Bert, kaz, plh, ddahl, Zakim, RRSAgent, rubys, Steven, shepazu, plinss, ed_, trackbot
15:54:40 <kaz> zakim, drop Microsoft
15:54:40 <Zakim> [Microsoft] is being disconnected
15:54:41 <Zakim> HTML_CG()10:00AM has ended
15:54:43 <Zakim> Attendees were Debbie_Dahl, Plh, Steven, kaz, Doug_Schepers, paulc, Bert
16:52:20 <kaz> Present: PLH, Steven, Debbie, Doug, Kaz, Bert, Paul
16:52:27 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:52:27 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/02/25-hcg-minutes.html kaz
16:53:25 <kaz> rrsagent, stop
16:54:04 <kaz> s/Plague/Prague/g
16:54:07 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:54:07 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/02/25-hcg-minutes.html kaz
16:54:24 <kaz> [ adjourned ]
16:54:26 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:54:26 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/02/25-hcg-minutes.html kaz
16:54:29 <kaz> rrsagent, stop
17:10:32 <kaz> i/XBL discussion?/topic: XBL discussion/
17:10:36 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
17:10:36 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/02/25-hcg-minutes.html kaz
17:10:39 <kaz> rrsagent, stop