14:50:39 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #rdfa
14:50:39 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/02/24-rdfa-irc
14:50:41 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
14:50:41 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #rdfa
14:50:43 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 7332
14:50:43 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFa()10:00AM scheduled to start in 10 minutes
14:50:44 <trackbot> Meeting: RDFa Working Group Teleconference
14:50:44 <trackbot> Date: 24 February 2011
14:57:10 <Steven> Steven has joined #rdfa
14:57:44 <manu1> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdfa-wg/2011Feb/0160.html
14:57:59 <manu1> Chair: Manu
14:59:48 <Zakim> SW_RDFa()10:00AM has now started
14:59:56 <Zakim> +??P13
14:59:58 <manu1> zakim, I am ??P13
14:59:59 <Zakim> +manu1; got it
15:00:06 <Zakim> +Benjamin
15:00:36 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip
15:00:36 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made
15:00:37 <Zakim> +Ivan
15:02:36 <Zakim> +??P17
15:03:23 <ShaneM> ShaneM has joined #rdfa
15:03:32 <ShaneM> zakim, who is here?
15:03:32 <Zakim> On the phone I see manu1, Benjamin, Ivan, ??P17
15:03:33 <Zakim> On IRC I see ShaneM, Steven, Zakim, RRSAgent, Benjamin, ivan, tinkster, manu1, webr3, manu, trackbot
15:03:39 <ShaneM> zakim, ??P17 is ShaneM
15:03:39 <Zakim> +ShaneM; got it
15:04:14 <manu1> zakim, who is on the call?
15:04:14 <Zakim> On the phone I see manu1, Benjamin, Ivan, ShaneM
15:04:29 <manu1> Regrets: Toby
15:05:31 <Steven> zakim, call steven-617
15:05:31 <Zakim> ok, Steven; the call is being made
15:05:33 <Zakim> +Steven
15:05:56 <Benjamin> scribe: Benjamin
15:06:15 <manu1> Topic: HTML WG ISSUE-120 Coordination
15:06:40 <manu1> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/RDFaPrefixesNoChange
15:06:56 <markbirbeck> markbirbeck has joined #rdfa
15:07:05 <Benjamin> manu: Ivan, Tobi, and Manu have updated the proposal and send it to the HTML working group
15:07:11 <markbirbeck> zakim, code?
15:07:11 <Zakim> the conference code is 7332 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), markbirbeck
15:07:28 <Benjamin> ... we think we are ready
15:08:00 <Zakim> +??P5
15:08:07 <markbirbeck> zakim, i am ?
15:08:07 <Zakim> +markbirbeck; got it
15:08:15 <markbirbeck> sorry I'm late...
15:09:34 <manu1> Topic: Preparation for 2nd Last Call
15:09:54 <Benjamin> manu: I believe that we have discussed all of the last call issues
15:10:23 <Benjamin> ... does anybody know unadressed issues?
15:10:41 <ivan> (deep silence...)
15:10:51 <manu1> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdfa-wg/2011Feb/0044.html
15:10:53 <Benjamin> ... nobody knos any 
15:11:11 <ivan> s/knos/knows/
15:11:11 <Steven> Yep.
15:11:28 <Steven> I will send my mails tonight or tomorrow a.m.
15:13:04 <Benjamin> manu: Shane can you give a status on your issues?
15:14:27 <Benjamin> shane: Issue 70 is still outstanding
15:15:02 <Benjamin> Steven: Will send his responses to his issues tonight.
15:17:52 <ivan> zakim, mute me
15:17:52 <Zakim> Ivan should now be muted
15:18:39 <ivan> shane, is there anything waiting on me for the document?
15:18:46 <Benjamin> shane: Implemented changes on RDFa Core and HTML+RDFA documents
15:19:45 <Benjamin> shane: You can point to a live version of a spec in last call responses
15:20:43 <Benjamin> manu: we should ask people to review solved issues in live versions of specs before end of the second last call
15:21:40 <Benjamin> shane: I could make two versions of the specs, one for us and one we agree upon to show others
15:21:59 <Benjamin> manu: anything esle about last call?
15:22:07 <Benjamin> silence
15:22:17 <manu1> Topic: RDF and RDFa API next steps
15:22:37 <ivan> q+
15:23:19 <ivan> ack ivan
15:23:20 <manu1> ack ivan
15:23:29 <Benjamin> manu: Maybe we should invite other people that are familiar with web developements and RDF for working on the RDFa API, RDF API topics 
15:24:16 <ShaneM> just to be clear - I will also turn up.  I just might not add much value.
15:24:37 <Benjamin> shane will contribute less to the APIs
15:25:07 <Benjamin> Steven: will contribute less to the APIs
15:25:45 <Benjamin> Benjamin: I am interested in contributing to the APIs
15:26:24 <Benjamin> markbirbeck:  I am interested in contributing to the APIs We should also invite Python programmers to contribute.
15:26:51 <manu1> Ivan: our emphasis should be on the WebApps/JavaScript people.
15:26:55 <Benjamin> ivan: Our emphasis should be on web development, Java script people
15:28:13 <Benjamin> manu: We should be account RDF/JSON activities when working on the APIs
15:28:39 <Benjamin> s/should be/should/
15:29:36 <Benjamin> ivan: I try to invite |firstname| Steiner to join us
15:29:45 <manu1> Thomas Steiner
15:29:55 <ivan> s/|firstname|/Thomas/
15:32:06 <Benjamin> manu: We shouold try to contact other people, after the charter is accepted
15:32:26 <Benjamin> s/shouold/should/
15:33:16 <manu1> Topic: RDFa API Review
15:33:20 <Benjamin> manu: anything else about high level issues on the RDFa API?
15:33:25 <Benjamin> silence
15:33:46 <Benjamin> manu: Any missing features or bugs?
15:34:10 <manu1> http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/sources/rdfa-api/
15:35:23 <Benjamin> manu: we have to spend work into property groups and projections
15:35:41 <Benjamin> manu: especially work on terminology
15:36:43 <Benjamin> markbirbeck: I took nearly all projection-related things from SPARQL
15:37:02 <Benjamin> ivan: Should we refer to SPARQL instead of defining it ourself
15:37:19 <Benjamin> mark: it is more conceptually related
15:38:52 <Benjamin> ivan: Mark, you defined a subset of sparql in the RDFa API, maybe we should use and refer to the terms of SPARQL then.
15:39:47 <Benjamin> ivan: this might minimize our own work
15:41:25 <Benjamin> manu: we have to check details on projections if it is possible to map it to SPARQL specifications
15:42:18 <Benjamin> ivan: We should define our query patterns in a TURTLE like syntax -- that is close to SPARQL
15:43:20 <Benjamin> manu: The use of SPARQL might confuse web developers
15:44:05 <Benjamin> ivan: we should focus on use the simple parts of SPARQL in our approach.
15:44:44 <Benjamin> markbirbeck: My idea was to query with a JSON structure and syntax.
15:46:28 <Benjamin> ivan: We should not put complex SPARQL features such as optionals to our query approach
15:46:28 <markbirbeck> "?s"
15:46:34 <markbirbeck> "Ivan"
15:46:42 <markbirbeck> add(a, b)
15:47:48 <Benjamin> ivan: we should not provide features such as UNION, OPTIONAL, SUBSELECT
15:48:47 <Benjamin> manu: We should further discuss on querying objects in the RDFa API
15:49:59 <Benjamin> ivan: There is a similarity between TURTLE syntax and SPARQL patterns. Now there is an emerging JSON serialization of RDF, and our JSON related query features.
15:50:19 <Benjamin> ... both, TURTLE syntax and JSON syntax should be allowed
15:51:33 <Benjamin> TOPIC: RDF API Review
15:51:40 <manu1> http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/sources/rdf-api/
15:52:20 <Benjamin> manu: A prose describing design criterias is missing
15:53:15 <Benjamin> ... Nathan and I want a more generalized graph mechanism than RDF allows.
15:54:01 <Benjamin> ... these graphs may not be serializable in RDF/XML - we have to coordinate with the RDF working group
15:55:06 <Benjamin> ivan: The RDF WG is out of scope of a generalized graph mechanism such as using blank nodes in predicates, or literals as subjects.
15:56:21 <Benjamin> ivan: A number of RDF environments already provide such generalized graph mechanisms.
15:59:17 <Benjamin> ivan: Often intermediate steps in these systems use versions of graphs that are also not serializable, e.g., for supporting reasoning. When serializing the graph, the generalized graph mechanism are ignored.
16:00:11 <Benjamin> ivan: It is not a problem to let serializers be silent on  generalized graph mechanisms.
16:00:37 <Benjamin> ivan: Graph literals are heaviliy discussed at the moment so we should skip them
16:01:09 <Benjamin> q+
16:01:35 <manu1> ack benjamin
16:01:49 <manu1> Benjamin: We should also solve the issue of Term and Prefix maps
16:02:54 <Benjamin> ivan: Why are these maps on the API level
16:04:00 <Benjamin> manu: they make programming easier as they save code.
16:04:22 <manu1> q+ to end the telecon
16:04:41 <Benjamin> manu: JS developers want to use terms more than prefixes.
16:05:04 <Steven> I sent my last call replies, by the way
16:05:06 <Steven> Bye
16:05:13 <Zakim> -Steven
16:05:15 <Zakim> -ShaneM
16:11:42 <manu1> about="foo"
16:12:21 <manu1> about="next"
16:15:13 <markbirbeck> @about="foo" would be a reference to a sibling document to the current document, which is not that common.
16:15:30 <markbirbeck> I think people are probably thinking of @about="#foo" as the more common one.
16:15:48 <markbirbeck> @about="./foo"
16:16:24 <markbirbeck> @about="[foo]"
16:18:18 <Benjamin> zakim, make minutes
16:18:18 <Zakim> I don't understand 'make minutes', Benjamin
16:18:50 <Zakim> -manu1
16:18:51 <Zakim> -markbirbeck
16:18:59 <ivan> zakim, drop me
16:18:59 <Zakim> Ivan is being disconnected
16:19:00 <Zakim> -Ivan
16:19:03 <Zakim> -Benjamin
16:19:04 <Zakim> SW_RDFa()10:00AM has ended
16:19:05 <Zakim> Attendees were manu1, Benjamin, Ivan, ShaneM, Steven, markbirbeck
17:06:19 <webr3> hey guys, sorry I missed todays meeting :( not been too well the past couple of weeks
17:10:15 <ShaneM> ShaneM has left #rdfa
17:12:13 <manu1> Sorry to hear that Nathan - hope you feel better soon. :)
17:15:44 <webr3> likewise mate
17:24:57 <ivan> sorry nathan... take a long week-end off and rest!
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18:47:39 <manu1> RRSAgent, bye
18:47:39 <RRSAgent> I see no action items