14:42:45 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #dap
14:42:45 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/02/23-dap-irc
14:42:47 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
14:42:47 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #dap
14:42:49 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be DAP
14:42:49 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see UW_DAP()10:00AM scheduled to start in 18 minutes
14:42:50 <trackbot> Meeting: Device APIs and Policy Working Group Teleconference
14:42:50 <trackbot> Date: 23 February 2011
14:43:08 <fjh> Chair: Frederick_Hirsch
14:43:18 <fjh> Present+  Frederick_Hirsch
14:43:25 <fjh> Regrets+ Robin_Berjon
14:43:55 <fjh> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Feb/0101.html
14:44:31 <wmaslowski> wmaslowski has left #dap
14:44:58 <fjh> Regrets+ María_Oteo
14:45:26 <fjh> Regrets+ Claes_Nilsson
14:47:11 <fjh_> fjh_ has joined #dap
14:51:22 <JonathanJ> JonathanJ has left #DAP
14:57:39 <Zakim> UW_DAP()10:00AM has now started
14:57:46 <Zakim> +??P0
14:58:40 <jgiraud> jgiraud has joined #dap
14:58:53 <jgiraud> Present+ jerome_giraud
14:58:56 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
14:59:10 <fjh> zakim, [[IPCaller] is me
14:59:10 <Zakim> sorry, fjh, I do not recognize a party named '[[IPCaller]'
14:59:20 <fjh> zakim, [IPcaller] is me
14:59:20 <Zakim> +fjh; got it
14:59:25 <fjh> zakim, who is here?
14:59:25 <Zakim> On the phone I see ??P0, fjh
14:59:26 <Zakim> On IRC I see jgiraud, fjh_, Zakim, RRSAgent, fjh, homata__, richt, ingmar, ilkka, dom, trackbot, lgombos
15:00:31 <dom> Zakim, code?
15:00:31 <Zakim> the conference code is 3279 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), dom
15:00:48 <Zakim> +??P7
15:00:50 <dom> Present+ Dominique_Hazael-Massieux
15:00:52 <dom> Zakim, ??P7 is me
15:00:54 <Zakim> +dom; got it
15:01:02 <ktaklee> ktaklee has joined #dap
15:01:19 <AnssiK> AnssiK has joined #dap
15:01:20 <Zakim> +??P9
15:01:24 <ktaklee> Present+ Kyung-Tak_Lee
15:01:52 <dom> Zakim, who's on the call?
15:01:52 <Zakim> On the phone I see ??P0, fjh, dom, ??P9
15:01:55 <Zakim> +??P10
15:02:08 <AnssiK> zakim, ??P10 is me
15:02:08 <Zakim> +AnssiK; got it
15:02:16 <AnssiK> Present+ Anssi_Kostiainen
15:02:20 <jmorris> jmorris has joined #dap
15:02:22 <hta> hta has joined #dap
15:02:31 <hta> Present+ Harald_alvestrand
15:02:44 <Zakim> + +1.425.214.aaaa
15:03:03 <Zakim> + +1.301.581.aabb
15:03:08 <Zakim> + +1.847.472.aacc
15:03:13 <Suresh> Suresh has joined #dap
15:03:16 <jmorris> Present+ John_Morris
15:03:30 <Suresh> Present+ Suresh_Chitturi
15:03:36 <jmorris> zakim, aabb is jmorris
15:03:36 <Zakim> +jmorris; got it
15:03:48 <Zakim> +Laszlo_Gombos
15:04:21 <jmorris> I unfortunately can only be on the call until 10:30am EST
15:04:26 <hta> what's the command to list all the phone# s zakim knows about and doesn't have names for?
15:04:36 <hta> I joined the bridge before joining the chatroom.
15:04:57 <dom> Zakim, who's on the call?
15:05:00 <Zakim> On the phone I see ??P0, fjh, dom, ??P9, AnssiK, +1.425.214.aaaa, jmorris, +1.847.472.aacc, Laszlo_Gombos
15:05:28 <Suresh> zakim, aacc is Suresh
15:05:28 <Zakim> +Suresh; got it
15:06:13 <hta> I should have been a ??650, so I guess I'm either ??P9 or ??P0. Using Google Voice.
15:06:27 <dom> Zakim, ??P9 is probably hta
15:06:27 <Zakim> +hta?; got it
15:06:42 <Suresh> ScribeNick: Suresh
15:07:19 <fjh> zakim, who is here?
15:07:19 <Zakim> On the phone I see ??P0, fjh, dom, hta?, AnssiK, +1.425.214.aaaa, jmorris, Suresh, Laszlo_Gombos
15:07:20 <Dzung_Tran> Dzung_Tran has joined #dap
15:07:21 <Zakim> On IRC I see Suresh, hta, jmorris, AnssiK, ktaklee, jgiraud, fjh_, Zakim, RRSAgent, fjh, homata__, richt, ingmar, ilkka, dom, trackbot, lgombos
15:07:25 <Dzung_Tran> Present+ Dzung_Tran
15:07:48 <Suresh> Topic: Seoul F2F and  workshop planning 
15:07:58 <fjh> Seoul F2F , please complete registration page, http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/43696/seoul-f2f-reg/
15:08:21 <Suresh> fjh: what about dial-in?
15:08:32 <Suresh> Dom: Will look into to it
15:08:34 <fjh> action: dom to reserve zakim line for f2f
15:08:34 <trackbot> Created ACTION-341 - Reserve zakim line for f2f [on Dominique Hazaël-Massieux - due 2011-03-02].
15:08:35 <dom> ACTION: Dom to reserve zakim bridge for DAP F2F
15:08:35 <trackbot> Created ACTION-342 - Reserve zakim bridge for DAP F2F [on Dominique Hazaël-Massieux - due 2011-03-02].
15:08:44 <dom> close ACTION-342
15:08:44 <trackbot> ACTION-342 Reserve zakim bridge for DAP F2F closed
15:09:06 <fjh> http://www.w3.or.kr/DAP2011/
15:09:13 <Suresh> workshop planning: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Feb/0099.html
15:09:35 <bryan_sullivan> bryan_sullivan has joined #dap
15:09:42 <Cathy> Cathy has joined #dap
15:10:04 <Zakim> +Cathy
15:10:16 <Cathy> Present+ Cathy_Chan
15:10:27 <Suresh> Topic: Subsequent F2F planning
15:11:01 <Suresh> fjh: Possibly June and July
15:11:11 <Suresh> s/and/or
15:11:59 <Suresh> Topic: Minutes approval
15:12:01 <fjh> Approve 16 February minutes
15:12:02 <fjh> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Feb/att-0097/minutes-2011-02-16.html
15:12:10 <Suresh> RESOLUTION: Minutes from 16 February 2011 approved
15:12:11 <dom> fjh: we need hosting offers in Europe for our next F2F, in June/July timeframe
15:12:26 <Suresh> Topic: Rechartering
15:12:30 <fjh> http://www.w3.org/2010/11/DeviceAPICharter.html
15:12:38 <fjh> Privacy, security deliverables?
15:13:00 <Zakim> +richt
15:13:09 <Suresh> fjh: reminder to everyone to provide comments to the charter
15:14:35 <Suresh> Topic: System Information
15:14:47 <Suresh> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Feb/0091.html
15:16:13 <fjh> how should this be chartered?
15:16:20 <dom> +1 on need to rework sysinfo
15:17:08 <Suresh> richt: the feedback is that is not ideal for implementers
15:17:21 <dom> http://www.w3.org/2010/11/DeviceAPICharter.html
15:18:10 <Suresh> richt: it needs to be simpler than the current model
15:18:24 <fjh> richt: need clarity that won't deliver specification as is, but simpler approach, in charter
15:18:58 <Suresh> dom: sys info needs to more work e.g. define how network information is made available
15:20:13 <Suresh> q+
15:20:22 <fjh> ack suresh
15:20:59 <fjh> richt: not able to edit, would need an editor for a new spec
15:22:16 <Suresh> Suresh: It is not clear what needs to be changed, is it the set of the properties or the model
15:23:29 <Suresh> richt: it is deep, and more complex...probably making it small for easy implementations
15:25:34 <Suresh> Suresh: one way is to cut down the properties that are non-controversial such as battery, codecs, etc..
15:26:33 <fjh> summary - rather than create a framework for all possibilities, start with simpler spec for specific purposes, then grow as needed
15:26:51 <fjh> this approach makes privacy concern easier
15:29:10 <dom> ACTION: Richard to propose better wording for System information and events api
15:29:11 <trackbot> Created ACTION-343 - Propose better wording for System information and events api [on Richard Tibbett - due 2011-03-02].
15:29:13 <fjh> should the charter be more specific than "System Information" 
15:30:51 <bryan_sullivan> q+
15:31:01 <fjh> ack bryan
15:32:34 <Suresh> Suresh: we need to be explicit if we believe something should not be in scope, but not sure if we should be too specific on the supported properties
15:33:18 <Suresh> Bryan: not agianst generic property access
15:33:39 <fjh> bryan agrees that if change in approach should have different new spec with different name
15:34:27 <Suresh> fjh: should we drop the current spec?
15:36:16 <Suresh> Topic: Messaging
15:36:23 <fjh> zakim, who is here?
15:36:23 <Zakim> On the phone I see ??P0, fjh, dom, hta?, AnssiK, +1.425.214.aaaa, jmorris, Suresh, Laszlo_Gombos, Cathy, richt
15:36:25 <Zakim> On IRC I see Cathy, bryan_sullivan, Dzung_Tran, Suresh, hta, jmorris, AnssiK, ktaklee, jgiraud, fjh_, Zakim, RRSAgent, fjh, homata__, richt, ingmar, ilkka, dom, trackbot, lgombos
15:36:48 <Suresh> Topic: Other API status
15:37:32 <Suresh> Suresh: We had the timezone issue?
15:37:34 <dom> ACTION-333?
15:37:34 <trackbot> ACTION-333 -- Richard Tibbett to draft a proposal for utcOffset based on mailing list feedback (re ISSUE-106) -- due 2011-02-16 -- OPEN
15:37:34 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/333
15:37:43 <Suresh> Richt: prefer to talk about it over the list
15:38:49 <Dzung_Tran> Wait, I sent a message asking Rich about System Info, but I got no response
15:39:24 <fjh> zakim, who is here?
15:39:24 <Zakim> On the phone I see ??P0, fjh, dom, hta?, AnssiK, +1.425.214.aaaa, jmorris, Suresh, Laszlo_Gombos, Cathy, richt
15:39:27 <Zakim> On IRC I see Cathy, bryan_sullivan, Dzung_Tran, Suresh, hta, jmorris, AnssiK, ktaklee, jgiraud, fjh_, Zakim, RRSAgent, fjh, homata__, richt, ingmar, ilkka, dom, trackbot, lgombos
15:39:42 <Dzung_Tran> I rather discuss System Info, before doing anything drastic to it
15:40:00 <Dzung_Tran> I don't mind editing it, if I know what are the specifics
15:40:13 <Zakim> -jmorris
15:40:35 <Dzung_Tran> No, I am not on the call - only on IRC today
15:40:43 <bryan_sullivan> present+ bryan_sullivan
15:41:52 <Dzung_Tran> Will do
15:42:01 <fjh> s/Will do//
15:43:08 <bryan_sullivan> To clarify my earlier comments on sysinfo: if the intent is to focus on discrete APIs for sensors and property access than that is fine, but I would propose to drop the current sysinfo spec so that as it evolves, it does not conflict with similar implementations in the market, i.e. we need to avoid fragmentation in APIs for the same purpose, which will br brought to W3C as work in the near future.
15:44:00 <richt> +1 from me bryan
15:44:25 <Suresh> fjh: we should probably discuss this on the list
15:45:57 <Suresh> fjh: we should try to reuse the work already done
15:46:31 <Suresh> xxx: do we have defintion of success?
15:46:39 <hta> xxx=hta
15:46:39 <Suresh> fjh: adoption and implementation
15:47:00 <Suresh> s/xxx/hta
15:48:42 <Suresh> Suresh has joined #dap
15:51:08 <dom> the draft new charter says "To advance to Proposed Recommendation, each specification is expected to have two independent implementations of all features defined in the specification.
15:51:08 <dom> APIs that cannot be demonstrated to be implementable securely within the default browser context will not be released."
15:51:11 <dom> as part of the success criteria
15:51:57 <Suresh> I guess we need to define "default browser context" ....
15:52:00 <Zakim> - +1.425.214.aaaa
15:52:03 <Zakim> -Laszlo_Gombos
15:52:04 <bryan_sullivan> bryan_sullivan has left #dap
15:52:04 <Zakim> -richt
15:52:05 <Zakim> -Cathy
15:52:07 <fjh> Topic: Adjourn
15:52:08 <Zakim> -AnssiK
15:52:09 <Zakim> -hta?
15:52:09 <Zakim> -??P0
15:52:12 <Zakim> -dom
15:52:14 <fjh> rrsagent, generate minutes
15:52:14 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/02/23-dap-minutes.html fjh
15:52:22 <Zakim> -Suresh
15:52:51 <Zakim> -fjh
15:52:53 <Zakim> UW_DAP()10:00AM has ended
15:52:55 <Zakim> Attendees were fjh, dom, AnssiK, +1.425.214.aaaa, +1.301.581.aabb, +1.847.472.aacc, jmorris, Laszlo_Gombos, Suresh, hta?, Cathy, richt
15:53:28 <fjh> s/I unfortunately can only be on the call until 10:30am EST//
15:53:38 <fjh> s/ what's the command to list all the phone# s zakim knows about and doesn't have names for?//
15:53:46 <fjh> s/I joined the bridge before joining the chatroom.//
15:53:57 <fjh> s/I should have been a ??650, so I guess I'm either ??P9 or ??P0. Using Google Voice.//
15:54:50 <fjh> s/Possibly June or July/F2F after Seoul will be possibly June or July. We were planning on Europe, but need a host. If you can offer please let us know./
15:55:12 <fjh> s/agianst/against
15:55:44 <fjh> s/should we drop the current spec/should we have a new spec instead of the current spec, to be clear on scope etc/
15:56:03 <hta> hta has left #dap
15:56:16 <fjh> s/xxx/hta
15:56:21 <fjh> s/hta=hta
15:56:30 <fjh> s/hta=hta//
15:57:07 <fjh> rrsagent, generate minutes
15:57:07 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/02/23-dap-minutes.html fjh
16:06:26 <AnssiK> AnssiK has left #dap
16:41:57 <richt_> richt_ has joined #dap
17:59:42 <Zakim> Zakim has left #dap
18:40:57 <fjh> fjh has joined #dap
19:26:20 <richt> richt has joined #dap
20:02:26 <fjh> fjh has joined #dap