14:39:32 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #sparql
14:39:32 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/02/22-sparql-irc
14:39:37 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #sparql
14:39:47 <AxelPolleres> Zakim, this will be SPARQL
14:39:47 <Zakim> ok, AxelPolleres; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 21 minutes
14:40:36 <AxelPolleres> agenda: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Agenda-2011-02-22
14:40:43 <AxelPolleres> chair: AxelPolleres
14:43:51 <AxelPolleres> regrets: AndyS, Chime, LeeF, Carlos (at risk)
14:43:53 <OlivierCorby> OlivierCorby has joined #sparql
14:57:42 <cbuilara> cbuilara has joined #sparql
14:57:51 <NickH> NickH has joined #sparql
14:58:23 <Zakim> SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has now started
14:58:30 <Zakim> +??P8
14:58:38 <cbuilara> zakim, ??P8 is me
14:58:38 <Zakim> +cbuilara; got it
14:58:47 <Zakim> +??P10
14:58:50 <Zakim> +AxelPolleres
14:58:59 <NickH> Zakim, ??P10 is me
14:59:00 <Zakim> +NickH; got it
14:59:09 <Zakim> +bglimm
14:59:09 <cbuilara> zakim, mute me
14:59:10 <Zakim> cbuilara should now be muted
14:59:18 <AxelPolleres> regrets: AndyS, Chime, LeeF
14:59:40 <AxelPolleres> trackbot, start meeting
14:59:43 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
14:59:45 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 77277
14:59:45 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 1 minute
14:59:46 <trackbot> Meeting: SPARQL Working Group Teleconference
14:59:46 <trackbot> Date: 22 February 2011
15:00:09 <AxelPolleres> Zakim, who is on the phone?
15:00:14 <Zakim> I notice SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has restarted
15:00:18 <Zakim> On the phone I see cbuilara (muted), AxelPolleres, NickH, bglimm, kasei, pgearon
15:00:27 <NickH> queue-
15:00:49 <MattPerry> MattPerry has joined #sparql
15:00:49 <Zakim> +AlexPassant
15:01:05 <NickH> I can scribe
15:01:08 <NickH> (or try)
15:01:10 <Zakim> + +33.9.52.29.aaaa
15:01:26 <OlivierCorby> Zakim, aaaa is me
15:01:26 <Zakim> +OlivierCorby; got it
15:01:32 <Zakim> +MattPerry
15:01:33 <AxelPolleres> scribe: NickH
15:01:58 <AxelPolleres> Zakim, who is on the phone?
15:01:58 <Zakim> On the phone I see cbuilara (muted), AxelPolleres, NickH, bglimm, kasei, pgearon, AlexPassant, OlivierCorby, MattPerry
15:02:50 <AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Agenda-2011-02-22
15:03:15 <AxelPolleres> topic: admin
15:03:17 <NickH> AxelPolleres: starting with admin issues
15:03:21 <AxelPolleres> PROPOSED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2011-02-15
15:03:49 <NickH> AxelPolleres: any objections?
15:03:56 <AxelPolleres> RESOLVED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2011-02-15
15:04:01 <NickH> AxelPolleres: resolved
15:04:18 <NickH> AxelPolleres: next topic, the comments page
15:04:20 <AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Comments
15:04:50 <Zakim> +Sandro
15:04:52 <AxelPolleres> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2011Feb/
15:05:26 <NickH> AxelPolleres: last comment logged was from Rob Vesse
15:05:37 <bglimm> There was one syntax error that I fixed
15:05:46 <bglimm> but he also wanted several additional manifests
15:05:48 <NickH> AxelPolleres: still some ccomments to go through
15:06:08 <AxelPolleres> JB comment from Feb 18 can be addressed later
15:06:39 <AxelPolleres> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2011Feb/0015.html looks ok, will check with chime
15:07:01 <NickH> AxelPolleres: going to update the page. Can't see anything too serious
15:07:14 <NickH> AxelPolleres: any comments ready to be signed off?
15:08:01 <AxelPolleres>  Next regular meeting: 2011-02-29 @ 15:00 UK / 10:00 EST (scribe: Paul Gearon) 
15:08:21 <AxelPolleres>  Next regular meeting: 2011-03-01 @ 15:00 UK / 10:00 EST (scribe: Paul Gearon) 
15:08:24 <Zakim> -cbuilara
15:08:36 <AxelPolleres> topic: to last call
15:08:37 <AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/To_Last_Call
15:08:53 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
15:09:01 <cbuilara> zakim, IPcaller is me
15:09:01 <Zakim> +cbuilara; got it
15:09:08 <cbuilara> zakim, mute me
15:09:08 <Zakim> cbuilara should now be muted
15:09:22 <NickH> AxelPolleres: not much point at looking at the Query because none of the Editors are present
15:10:04 <NickH> AxelPolleres: anything about the Service Description to report from Greg?
15:10:40 <NickH> kasei: still need to merge in some changes about IRIs
15:11:00 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: greg to contact chime on Dataset Update Protocol issue
15:11:00 <trackbot> Created ACTION-396 - Contact chime on Dataset Update Protocol issue [on Gregory Williams - due 2011-03-01].
15:11:05 <NickH> kasei: going to talk to Cheme about issues relating to the HTTP protocol
15:11:57 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: axel to ask chime what he meeant with "post LC" issues
15:11:57 <trackbot> Created ACTION-397 - Ask chime what he meeant with "post LC" issues [on Axel Polleres - due 2011-03-01].
15:12:04 <bglimm> I didn't hear back from C&P yet, but they said that they can't finish the review before the end of Feb. Thus, nothing new (just updated Andy's affiliation).
15:12:12 <bglimm> yes
15:12:18 <NickH> AxelPolleres: next, entailment
15:12:27 <NickH> AxelPolleres: waiting for reviews
15:12:32 <cbuilara> zakim, unmute me
15:12:32 <Zakim> cbuilara should no longer be muted
15:12:48 <cbuilara> zakim, ummute me
15:12:48 <Zakim> I don't understand 'ummute me', cbuilara
15:12:53 <NickH> sorry I couldn't hear that
15:12:54 <cbuilara> zakim, mute me
15:12:54 <Zakim> cbuilara should now be muted
15:13:09 <AxelPolleres> should have changes implemented by next TC
15:13:13 <cbuilara> I said that for the next call I will have all changes implemented
15:13:23 <AxelPolleres> JSON result|: reviews still to be worked in
15:13:28 <cbuilara> for the Fed extension
15:14:03 <NickH> AxelPolleres: next item on the agenda is test status
15:14:10 <bglimm> I ran a couple of the entailment tests
15:14:29 <bglimm> I can make a list for next week
15:14:33 <kasei> i went through the function tests several weeks ago and am happy with them. would be nice if someone else could glance over them before we approve them.
15:14:34 <bglimm> for those that are ready
15:14:48 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: Birte to prepare entailment tests for next week for approval
15:14:48 <trackbot> Created ACTION-398 - Prepare entailment tests for next week for approval [on Birte Glimm - due 2011-03-01].
15:15:09 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: Axel to check other test cases ready for approval
15:15:09 <trackbot> Created ACTION-399 - Check other test cases ready for approval [on Axel Polleres - due 2011-03-01].
15:15:56 <NickH> AxelPolleres: next item on agenda is checking action and issue status
15:18:04 <AxelPolleres> topic: update semantics
15:18:24 <AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/update-1.1/Overview.xml#formalModel
15:19:22 <NickH> sorry, I am finding it really hard to hear/scribe due to a lot of noise around me
15:20:28 <AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/update-1.1/Overview.xml#def_deleteinsertoperation
15:20:42 <NickH> AxelPolleres: one of the main issues is around the DELETE operation
15:21:23 <NickH> AxelPolleres: there a problems around an earlier resolution
15:21:48 <AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2010-03-09#resolution_2
15:22:06 <AxelPolleres> "Blank nodes in DELETE templates act as "wild cards", effectively as variables bound to all RDF terms; the same blank node cannot be used in the WHERE clause and the template, or in multiple BGPs, SteveH, dcharbon2, LeeF abstaining "
15:22:51 <AxelPolleres> DELETE { ?X :knows [] } WHERE {...}
15:22:51 <NickH> AxelPolleres: the idea is that bnodes can act as wildcards
15:23:19 <NickH> AxelPolleres: there has been quite a bit of disccussion about this on email
15:23:30 <NickH> AxelPolleres: wondering if anyone has looked into it?
15:23:36 <NickH> AxelPolleres: or has comments about it?
15:24:08 <NickH> <silence on phone>
15:24:09 <NickH> AxelPolleres: we definately need some feedback about it
15:24:36 <NickH> AxelPolleres: I have two proposals summaries in email:
15:24:50 <NickH> s/summaries/summarised/
15:24:58 <AxelPolleres> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2011JanMar/0317.html
15:25:00 <AxelPolleres> q?
15:25:42 <NickH> AxelPolleres: it looks to me like there are three options to deal with blank nodes in delete queries
15:25:59 <NickH> AxelPolleres: third option would be to override the previous resolution
15:26:40 <NickH> AxelPolleres: option 1: blank nodes in the delete templete would be replaced by variables
15:27:36 <NickH> AxelPolleres: option 2 is to copy the modified template into the body
15:28:35 <bglimm> Does ?X have to be bound in the WHERE clause?
15:29:00 <pgearon> no, it may not be
15:29:18 <AxelPolleres> option3:  overriding the original resolution and treating bnodes and in CONSTRUCT/INSERT
15:29:53 <AxelPolleres> (ehich means they have no effect in DELETE)
15:30:24 <Zakim> +??P3
15:30:33 <NickH> Zakim, ??P3 is me
15:30:33 <Zakim> +NickH; got it
15:31:20 <AxelPolleres> Strawpoll: option 1, 2, or 3?
15:31:20 <NickH> AxelPolleres: straw poll
15:31:32 <pgearon> 3
15:31:35 <NickH> 3
15:31:49 <bglimm> undecided
15:31:49 <kasei> 0
15:31:56 <sandro> undecided
15:31:58 <MattPerry> 0
15:31:59 <cbuilara> 0
15:32:06 <AxelPolleres> 1 or2 (but can live with 3)
15:32:06 <bglimm> I have to think about it first
15:32:49 <NickH> AxelPolleres: would like people to think about it for next week
15:33:22 <Zakim> -NickH
15:33:27 <AxelPolleres> All, please look at a) update semantics, b) the different options in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2011JanMar/0317.html
15:33:41 <pgearon> Re update semantics: My concern is developing a complex description to enable a feature when it is exactly equivalent to the existing alternatives
15:34:10 <NickH> AxelPolleres: do you have any thoughts about it Alex?
15:34:16 <AxelPolleres> strawpoll doesn't give a clear indication so far.
15:34:19 <NickH> Alex: I will need to think about it more
15:34:44 <bglimm> I sugested the rewording for BGP matching extensions
15:35:07 <AxelPolleres> birte, link?
15:35:07 <bglimm> I'll search for it
15:35:41 <NickH> AxelPolleres: can you take a look at the update semantics emails
15:36:06 <bglimm> Hm, the RIF text was already changed
15:36:14 <bglimm> with infinite answers
15:36:35 <bglimm> yes, it is should now
15:36:46 <bglimm> but the text is not in line with the rest of the spec
15:36:57 <bglimm> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2011JanMar/0276.html
15:36:57 <AxelPolleres> it is on the to_last_call page
15:37:06 <bglimm> that's the suggestion for rewording
15:37:21 <AxelPolleres> it is not yet implemented, you mean?
15:37:31 <bglimm> it uses "answer set" instead of solution sequence etc
15:37:44 <AxelPolleres> AOB?
15:37:52 <bglimm> "pattern instance mapping" means "slotion mapping" etc
15:38:09 <bglimm> Ok
15:38:22 <Zakim> -Sandro
15:38:23 <AxelPolleres> adjourned.
15:38:24 <MattPerry> bye
15:38:24 <bglimm> I can also try and dial in without my headset, so I can talk
15:38:27 <Zakim> -AlexPassant
15:38:31 <MattPerry> \quit
15:38:31 <Zakim> -NickH.a
15:38:33 <Zakim> -OlivierCorby
15:38:33 <Zakim> -cbuilara
15:38:37 <Zakim> -kasei
15:38:38 <Zakim> -pgearon
15:38:42 <Zakim> -MattPerry
15:38:50 <bglimm> but then I can't type properly because I have to hold the phone with one hand
15:38:50 <AxelPolleres> birte... skype/phone?
15:39:17 <bglimm> I can dial in again without headset
15:39:20 <AxelPolleres> rrsagent, make records public
15:40:21 <AxelPolleres> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2011JanMar/0276.html
15:41:56 <Zakim> -AxelPolleres
15:41:59 <Zakim> -bglimm
15:42:00 <Zakim> SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has ended
15:42:01 <Zakim> Attendees were cbuilara, AxelPolleres, NickH, bglimm, kasei, pgearon, AlexPassant, +33.9.52.29.aaaa, OlivierCorby, MattPerry, Sandro
15:43:30 <AxelPolleres> summary: we will put update semantics (incl bnodes) http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2011JanMar/0317.html and BGP matching extensions  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2011JanMar/0276.html on next week's agenda, please have a look.
15:43:48 <AxelPolleres> rrsagent, make records public
15:44:40 <AxelPolleres> thanks nick for scribing, BTW
16:01:21 <SteveH> SteveH has joined #sparql
16:14:06 <SteveH> AxelPolleres, did AndyS pass on my apologies? I wasn't wure who was dialed in
16:14:17 <SteveH> we lost internet connection at the office
16:14:28 <pgearon> AndyS is offline this week
16:14:52 <SteveH> ah, nuts
16:16:04 <pgearon> It was a short meeting
16:16:07 <AxelPolleres> anyways, we still have you on for next week, you won't get around scribing ;-)
16:16:23 <SteveH> heh, that was the least of my worries :)
16:16:42 <SteveH> our whole office is running of one 3g stick :-/
16:17:15 <AxelPolleres> steve, let me know if there's anything urgent /pending on query to be discussed next week... I put an initial agenda for next week up at  http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Agenda-2011-03-01 already
16:17:19 <pgearon> the "blank nodes in delete" issue could have used some more input, but you were only one of many people who wasn't there, so it wasn't a big deal
16:18:38 <AxelPolleres> BTW, the thing you raised on CONSTRUCT semantics, steve... you ok with my rewording suggestion? http://www.w3.org/mid/0B759463-3E4D-4787-B0E2-638D44FBE232@deri.org
16:18:40 <AxelPolleres> ?
17:47:39 <Zakim> Zakim has left #sparql