IRC log of sparql on 2011-02-22

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:39:32 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #sparql
14:39:32 [RRSAgent]
logging to
14:39:37 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #sparql
14:39:47 [AxelPolleres]
Zakim, this will be SPARQL
14:39:47 [Zakim]
ok, AxelPolleres; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 21 minutes
14:40:36 [AxelPolleres]
14:40:43 [AxelPolleres]
chair: AxelPolleres
14:43:51 [AxelPolleres]
regrets: AndyS, Chime, LeeF, Carlos (at risk)
14:43:53 [OlivierCorby]
OlivierCorby has joined #sparql
14:57:42 [cbuilara]
cbuilara has joined #sparql
14:57:51 [NickH]
NickH has joined #sparql
14:58:23 [Zakim]
SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has now started
14:58:30 [Zakim]
14:58:38 [cbuilara]
zakim, ??P8 is me
14:58:38 [Zakim]
+cbuilara; got it
14:58:47 [Zakim]
14:58:50 [Zakim]
14:58:59 [NickH]
Zakim, ??P10 is me
14:59:00 [Zakim]
+NickH; got it
14:59:09 [Zakim]
14:59:09 [cbuilara]
zakim, mute me
14:59:10 [Zakim]
cbuilara should now be muted
14:59:18 [AxelPolleres]
regrets: AndyS, Chime, LeeF
14:59:40 [AxelPolleres]
trackbot, start meeting
14:59:43 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs world
14:59:45 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be 77277
14:59:45 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 1 minute
14:59:46 [trackbot]
Meeting: SPARQL Working Group Teleconference
14:59:46 [trackbot]
Date: 22 February 2011
15:00:09 [AxelPolleres]
Zakim, who is on the phone?
15:00:14 [Zakim]
I notice SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has restarted
15:00:18 [Zakim]
On the phone I see cbuilara (muted), AxelPolleres, NickH, bglimm, kasei, pgearon
15:00:27 [NickH]
15:00:49 [MattPerry]
MattPerry has joined #sparql
15:00:49 [Zakim]
15:01:05 [NickH]
I can scribe
15:01:08 [NickH]
(or try)
15:01:10 [Zakim]
+ +
15:01:26 [OlivierCorby]
Zakim, aaaa is me
15:01:26 [Zakim]
+OlivierCorby; got it
15:01:32 [Zakim]
15:01:33 [AxelPolleres]
scribe: NickH
15:01:58 [AxelPolleres]
Zakim, who is on the phone?
15:01:58 [Zakim]
On the phone I see cbuilara (muted), AxelPolleres, NickH, bglimm, kasei, pgearon, AlexPassant, OlivierCorby, MattPerry
15:02:50 [AxelPolleres]
15:03:15 [AxelPolleres]
topic: admin
15:03:17 [NickH]
AxelPolleres: starting with admin issues
15:03:21 [AxelPolleres]
PROPOSED: Approve minutes at
15:03:49 [NickH]
AxelPolleres: any objections?
15:03:56 [AxelPolleres]
RESOLVED: Approve minutes at
15:04:01 [NickH]
AxelPolleres: resolved
15:04:18 [NickH]
AxelPolleres: next topic, the comments page
15:04:20 [AxelPolleres]
15:04:50 [Zakim]
15:04:52 [AxelPolleres]
15:05:26 [NickH]
AxelPolleres: last comment logged was from Rob Vesse
15:05:37 [bglimm]
There was one syntax error that I fixed
15:05:46 [bglimm]
but he also wanted several additional manifests
15:05:48 [NickH]
AxelPolleres: still some ccomments to go through
15:06:08 [AxelPolleres]
JB comment from Feb 18 can be addressed later
15:06:39 [AxelPolleres] looks ok, will check with chime
15:07:01 [NickH]
AxelPolleres: going to update the page. Can't see anything too serious
15:07:14 [NickH]
AxelPolleres: any comments ready to be signed off?
15:08:01 [AxelPolleres]
Next regular meeting: 2011-02-29 @ 15:00 UK / 10:00 EST (scribe: Paul Gearon)
15:08:21 [AxelPolleres]
Next regular meeting: 2011-03-01 @ 15:00 UK / 10:00 EST (scribe: Paul Gearon)
15:08:24 [Zakim]
15:08:36 [AxelPolleres]
topic: to last call
15:08:37 [AxelPolleres]
15:08:53 [Zakim]
15:09:01 [cbuilara]
zakim, IPcaller is me
15:09:01 [Zakim]
+cbuilara; got it
15:09:08 [cbuilara]
zakim, mute me
15:09:08 [Zakim]
cbuilara should now be muted
15:09:22 [NickH]
AxelPolleres: not much point at looking at the Query because none of the Editors are present
15:10:04 [NickH]
AxelPolleres: anything about the Service Description to report from Greg?
15:10:40 [NickH]
kasei: still need to merge in some changes about IRIs
15:11:00 [AxelPolleres]
ACTION: greg to contact chime on Dataset Update Protocol issue
15:11:00 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-396 - Contact chime on Dataset Update Protocol issue [on Gregory Williams - due 2011-03-01].
15:11:05 [NickH]
kasei: going to talk to Cheme about issues relating to the HTTP protocol
15:11:57 [AxelPolleres]
ACTION: axel to ask chime what he meeant with "post LC" issues
15:11:57 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-397 - Ask chime what he meeant with "post LC" issues [on Axel Polleres - due 2011-03-01].
15:12:04 [bglimm]
I didn't hear back from C&P yet, but they said that they can't finish the review before the end of Feb. Thus, nothing new (just updated Andy's affiliation).
15:12:12 [bglimm]
15:12:18 [NickH]
AxelPolleres: next, entailment
15:12:27 [NickH]
AxelPolleres: waiting for reviews
15:12:32 [cbuilara]
zakim, unmute me
15:12:32 [Zakim]
cbuilara should no longer be muted
15:12:48 [cbuilara]
zakim, ummute me
15:12:48 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'ummute me', cbuilara
15:12:53 [NickH]
sorry I couldn't hear that
15:12:54 [cbuilara]
zakim, mute me
15:12:54 [Zakim]
cbuilara should now be muted
15:13:09 [AxelPolleres]
should have changes implemented by next TC
15:13:13 [cbuilara]
I said that for the next call I will have all changes implemented
15:13:23 [AxelPolleres]
JSON result|: reviews still to be worked in
15:13:28 [cbuilara]
for the Fed extension
15:14:03 [NickH]
AxelPolleres: next item on the agenda is test status
15:14:10 [bglimm]
I ran a couple of the entailment tests
15:14:29 [bglimm]
I can make a list for next week
15:14:33 [kasei]
i went through the function tests several weeks ago and am happy with them. would be nice if someone else could glance over them before we approve them.
15:14:34 [bglimm]
for those that are ready
15:14:48 [AxelPolleres]
ACTION: Birte to prepare entailment tests for next week for approval
15:14:48 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-398 - Prepare entailment tests for next week for approval [on Birte Glimm - due 2011-03-01].
15:15:09 [AxelPolleres]
ACTION: Axel to check other test cases ready for approval
15:15:09 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-399 - Check other test cases ready for approval [on Axel Polleres - due 2011-03-01].
15:15:56 [NickH]
AxelPolleres: next item on agenda is checking action and issue status
15:18:04 [AxelPolleres]
topic: update semantics
15:18:24 [AxelPolleres]
15:19:22 [NickH]
sorry, I am finding it really hard to hear/scribe due to a lot of noise around me
15:20:28 [AxelPolleres]
15:20:42 [NickH]
AxelPolleres: one of the main issues is around the DELETE operation
15:21:23 [NickH]
AxelPolleres: there a problems around an earlier resolution
15:21:48 [AxelPolleres]
15:22:06 [AxelPolleres]
"Blank nodes in DELETE templates act as "wild cards", effectively as variables bound to all RDF terms; the same blank node cannot be used in the WHERE clause and the template, or in multiple BGPs, SteveH, dcharbon2, LeeF abstaining "
15:22:51 [AxelPolleres]
DELETE { ?X :knows [] } WHERE {...}
15:22:51 [NickH]
AxelPolleres: the idea is that bnodes can act as wildcards
15:23:19 [NickH]
AxelPolleres: there has been quite a bit of disccussion about this on email
15:23:30 [NickH]
AxelPolleres: wondering if anyone has looked into it?
15:23:36 [NickH]
AxelPolleres: or has comments about it?
15:24:08 [NickH]
<silence on phone>
15:24:09 [NickH]
AxelPolleres: we definately need some feedback about it
15:24:36 [NickH]
AxelPolleres: I have two proposals summaries in email:
15:24:50 [NickH]
15:24:58 [AxelPolleres]
15:25:00 [AxelPolleres]
15:25:42 [NickH]
AxelPolleres: it looks to me like there are three options to deal with blank nodes in delete queries
15:25:59 [NickH]
AxelPolleres: third option would be to override the previous resolution
15:26:40 [NickH]
AxelPolleres: option 1: blank nodes in the delete templete would be replaced by variables
15:27:36 [NickH]
AxelPolleres: option 2 is to copy the modified template into the body
15:28:35 [bglimm]
Does ?X have to be bound in the WHERE clause?
15:29:00 [pgearon]
no, it may not be
15:29:18 [AxelPolleres]
option3: overriding the original resolution and treating bnodes and in CONSTRUCT/INSERT
15:29:53 [AxelPolleres]
(ehich means they have no effect in DELETE)
15:30:24 [Zakim]
15:30:33 [NickH]
Zakim, ??P3 is me
15:30:33 [Zakim]
+NickH; got it
15:31:20 [AxelPolleres]
Strawpoll: option 1, 2, or 3?
15:31:20 [NickH]
AxelPolleres: straw poll
15:31:32 [pgearon]
15:31:35 [NickH]
15:31:49 [bglimm]
15:31:49 [kasei]
15:31:56 [sandro]
15:31:58 [MattPerry]
15:31:59 [cbuilara]
15:32:06 [AxelPolleres]
1 or2 (but can live with 3)
15:32:06 [bglimm]
I have to think about it first
15:32:49 [NickH]
AxelPolleres: would like people to think about it for next week
15:33:22 [Zakim]
15:33:27 [AxelPolleres]
All, please look at a) update semantics, b) the different options in
15:33:41 [pgearon]
Re update semantics: My concern is developing a complex description to enable a feature when it is exactly equivalent to the existing alternatives
15:34:10 [NickH]
AxelPolleres: do you have any thoughts about it Alex?
15:34:16 [AxelPolleres]
strawpoll doesn't give a clear indication so far.
15:34:19 [NickH]
Alex: I will need to think about it more
15:34:44 [bglimm]
I sugested the rewording for BGP matching extensions
15:35:07 [AxelPolleres]
birte, link?
15:35:07 [bglimm]
I'll search for it
15:35:41 [NickH]
AxelPolleres: can you take a look at the update semantics emails
15:36:06 [bglimm]
Hm, the RIF text was already changed
15:36:14 [bglimm]
with infinite answers
15:36:35 [bglimm]
yes, it is should now
15:36:46 [bglimm]
but the text is not in line with the rest of the spec
15:36:57 [bglimm]
15:36:57 [AxelPolleres]
it is on the to_last_call page
15:37:06 [bglimm]
that's the suggestion for rewording
15:37:21 [AxelPolleres]
it is not yet implemented, you mean?
15:37:31 [bglimm]
it uses "answer set" instead of solution sequence etc
15:37:44 [AxelPolleres]
15:37:52 [bglimm]
"pattern instance mapping" means "slotion mapping" etc
15:38:09 [bglimm]
15:38:22 [Zakim]
15:38:23 [AxelPolleres]
15:38:24 [MattPerry]
15:38:24 [bglimm]
I can also try and dial in without my headset, so I can talk
15:38:27 [Zakim]
15:38:31 [MattPerry]
15:38:31 [Zakim]
15:38:33 [Zakim]
15:38:33 [Zakim]
15:38:37 [Zakim]
15:38:38 [Zakim]
15:38:42 [Zakim]
15:38:50 [bglimm]
but then I can't type properly because I have to hold the phone with one hand
15:38:50 [AxelPolleres]
birte... skype/phone?
15:39:17 [bglimm]
I can dial in again without headset
15:39:20 [AxelPolleres]
rrsagent, make records public
15:40:21 [AxelPolleres]
15:41:56 [Zakim]
15:41:59 [Zakim]
15:42:00 [Zakim]
SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has ended
15:42:01 [Zakim]
Attendees were cbuilara, AxelPolleres, NickH, bglimm, kasei, pgearon, AlexPassant, +, OlivierCorby, MattPerry, Sandro
15:43:30 [AxelPolleres]
summary: we will put update semantics (incl bnodes) and BGP matching extensions on next week's agenda, please have a look.
15:43:48 [AxelPolleres]
rrsagent, make records public
15:44:40 [AxelPolleres]
thanks nick for scribing, BTW
16:01:21 [SteveH]
SteveH has joined #sparql
16:14:06 [SteveH]
AxelPolleres, did AndyS pass on my apologies? I wasn't wure who was dialed in
16:14:17 [SteveH]
we lost internet connection at the office
16:14:28 [pgearon]
AndyS is offline this week
16:14:52 [SteveH]
ah, nuts
16:16:04 [pgearon]
It was a short meeting
16:16:07 [AxelPolleres]
anyways, we still have you on for next week, you won't get around scribing ;-)
16:16:23 [SteveH]
heh, that was the least of my worries :)
16:16:42 [SteveH]
our whole office is running of one 3g stick :-/
16:17:15 [AxelPolleres]
steve, let me know if there's anything urgent /pending on query to be discussed next week... I put an initial agenda for next week up at already
16:17:19 [pgearon]
the "blank nodes in delete" issue could have used some more input, but you were only one of many people who wasn't there, so it wasn't a big deal
16:18:38 [AxelPolleres]
BTW, the thing you raised on CONSTRUCT semantics, steve... you ok with my rewording suggestion?
16:18:40 [AxelPolleres]
17:47:39 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #sparql