IRC log of sparql on 2011-02-22
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 14:39:32 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #sparql
- 14:39:32 [RRSAgent]
- logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/02/22-sparql-irc
- 14:39:37 [Zakim]
- Zakim has joined #sparql
- 14:39:47 [AxelPolleres]
- Zakim, this will be SPARQL
- 14:39:47 [Zakim]
- ok, AxelPolleres; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 21 minutes
- 14:40:36 [AxelPolleres]
- agenda: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Agenda-2011-02-22
- 14:40:43 [AxelPolleres]
- chair: AxelPolleres
- 14:43:51 [AxelPolleres]
- regrets: AndyS, Chime, LeeF, Carlos (at risk)
- 14:43:53 [OlivierCorby]
- OlivierCorby has joined #sparql
- 14:57:42 [cbuilara]
- cbuilara has joined #sparql
- 14:57:51 [NickH]
- NickH has joined #sparql
- 14:58:23 [Zakim]
- SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has now started
- 14:58:30 [Zakim]
- +??P8
- 14:58:38 [cbuilara]
- zakim, ??P8 is me
- 14:58:38 [Zakim]
- +cbuilara; got it
- 14:58:47 [Zakim]
- +??P10
- 14:58:50 [Zakim]
- +AxelPolleres
- 14:58:59 [NickH]
- Zakim, ??P10 is me
- 14:59:00 [Zakim]
- +NickH; got it
- 14:59:09 [Zakim]
- +bglimm
- 14:59:09 [cbuilara]
- zakim, mute me
- 14:59:10 [Zakim]
- cbuilara should now be muted
- 14:59:18 [AxelPolleres]
- regrets: AndyS, Chime, LeeF
- 14:59:40 [AxelPolleres]
- trackbot, start meeting
- 14:59:43 [trackbot]
- RRSAgent, make logs world
- 14:59:45 [trackbot]
- Zakim, this will be 77277
- 14:59:45 [Zakim]
- ok, trackbot; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 1 minute
- 14:59:46 [trackbot]
- Meeting: SPARQL Working Group Teleconference
- 14:59:46 [trackbot]
- Date: 22 February 2011
- 15:00:09 [AxelPolleres]
- Zakim, who is on the phone?
- 15:00:14 [Zakim]
- I notice SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has restarted
- 15:00:18 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see cbuilara (muted), AxelPolleres, NickH, bglimm, kasei, pgearon
- 15:00:27 [NickH]
- queue-
- 15:00:49 [MattPerry]
- MattPerry has joined #sparql
- 15:00:49 [Zakim]
- +AlexPassant
- 15:01:05 [NickH]
- I can scribe
- 15:01:08 [NickH]
- (or try)
- 15:01:10 [Zakim]
- + +33.9.52.29.aaaa
- 15:01:26 [OlivierCorby]
- Zakim, aaaa is me
- 15:01:26 [Zakim]
- +OlivierCorby; got it
- 15:01:32 [Zakim]
- +MattPerry
- 15:01:33 [AxelPolleres]
- scribe: NickH
- 15:01:58 [AxelPolleres]
- Zakim, who is on the phone?
- 15:01:58 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see cbuilara (muted), AxelPolleres, NickH, bglimm, kasei, pgearon, AlexPassant, OlivierCorby, MattPerry
- 15:02:50 [AxelPolleres]
- http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Agenda-2011-02-22
- 15:03:15 [AxelPolleres]
- topic: admin
- 15:03:17 [NickH]
- AxelPolleres: starting with admin issues
- 15:03:21 [AxelPolleres]
- PROPOSED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2011-02-15
- 15:03:49 [NickH]
- AxelPolleres: any objections?
- 15:03:56 [AxelPolleres]
- RESOLVED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2011-02-15
- 15:04:01 [NickH]
- AxelPolleres: resolved
- 15:04:18 [NickH]
- AxelPolleres: next topic, the comments page
- 15:04:20 [AxelPolleres]
- http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Comments
- 15:04:50 [Zakim]
- +Sandro
- 15:04:52 [AxelPolleres]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2011Feb/
- 15:05:26 [NickH]
- AxelPolleres: last comment logged was from Rob Vesse
- 15:05:37 [bglimm]
- There was one syntax error that I fixed
- 15:05:46 [bglimm]
- but he also wanted several additional manifests
- 15:05:48 [NickH]
- AxelPolleres: still some ccomments to go through
- 15:06:08 [AxelPolleres]
- JB comment from Feb 18 can be addressed later
- 15:06:39 [AxelPolleres]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2011Feb/0015.html looks ok, will check with chime
- 15:07:01 [NickH]
- AxelPolleres: going to update the page. Can't see anything too serious
- 15:07:14 [NickH]
- AxelPolleres: any comments ready to be signed off?
- 15:08:01 [AxelPolleres]
- Next regular meeting: 2011-02-29 @ 15:00 UK / 10:00 EST (scribe: Paul Gearon)
- 15:08:21 [AxelPolleres]
- Next regular meeting: 2011-03-01 @ 15:00 UK / 10:00 EST (scribe: Paul Gearon)
- 15:08:24 [Zakim]
- -cbuilara
- 15:08:36 [AxelPolleres]
- topic: to last call
- 15:08:37 [AxelPolleres]
- http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/To_Last_Call
- 15:08:53 [Zakim]
- +[IPcaller]
- 15:09:01 [cbuilara]
- zakim, IPcaller is me
- 15:09:01 [Zakim]
- +cbuilara; got it
- 15:09:08 [cbuilara]
- zakim, mute me
- 15:09:08 [Zakim]
- cbuilara should now be muted
- 15:09:22 [NickH]
- AxelPolleres: not much point at looking at the Query because none of the Editors are present
- 15:10:04 [NickH]
- AxelPolleres: anything about the Service Description to report from Greg?
- 15:10:40 [NickH]
- kasei: still need to merge in some changes about IRIs
- 15:11:00 [AxelPolleres]
- ACTION: greg to contact chime on Dataset Update Protocol issue
- 15:11:00 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-396 - Contact chime on Dataset Update Protocol issue [on Gregory Williams - due 2011-03-01].
- 15:11:05 [NickH]
- kasei: going to talk to Cheme about issues relating to the HTTP protocol
- 15:11:57 [AxelPolleres]
- ACTION: axel to ask chime what he meeant with "post LC" issues
- 15:11:57 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-397 - Ask chime what he meeant with "post LC" issues [on Axel Polleres - due 2011-03-01].
- 15:12:04 [bglimm]
- I didn't hear back from C&P yet, but they said that they can't finish the review before the end of Feb. Thus, nothing new (just updated Andy's affiliation).
- 15:12:12 [bglimm]
- yes
- 15:12:18 [NickH]
- AxelPolleres: next, entailment
- 15:12:27 [NickH]
- AxelPolleres: waiting for reviews
- 15:12:32 [cbuilara]
- zakim, unmute me
- 15:12:32 [Zakim]
- cbuilara should no longer be muted
- 15:12:48 [cbuilara]
- zakim, ummute me
- 15:12:48 [Zakim]
- I don't understand 'ummute me', cbuilara
- 15:12:53 [NickH]
- sorry I couldn't hear that
- 15:12:54 [cbuilara]
- zakim, mute me
- 15:12:54 [Zakim]
- cbuilara should now be muted
- 15:13:09 [AxelPolleres]
- should have changes implemented by next TC
- 15:13:13 [cbuilara]
- I said that for the next call I will have all changes implemented
- 15:13:23 [AxelPolleres]
- JSON result|: reviews still to be worked in
- 15:13:28 [cbuilara]
- for the Fed extension
- 15:14:03 [NickH]
- AxelPolleres: next item on the agenda is test status
- 15:14:10 [bglimm]
- I ran a couple of the entailment tests
- 15:14:29 [bglimm]
- I can make a list for next week
- 15:14:33 [kasei]
- i went through the function tests several weeks ago and am happy with them. would be nice if someone else could glance over them before we approve them.
- 15:14:34 [bglimm]
- for those that are ready
- 15:14:48 [AxelPolleres]
- ACTION: Birte to prepare entailment tests for next week for approval
- 15:14:48 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-398 - Prepare entailment tests for next week for approval [on Birte Glimm - due 2011-03-01].
- 15:15:09 [AxelPolleres]
- ACTION: Axel to check other test cases ready for approval
- 15:15:09 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-399 - Check other test cases ready for approval [on Axel Polleres - due 2011-03-01].
- 15:15:56 [NickH]
- AxelPolleres: next item on agenda is checking action and issue status
- 15:18:04 [AxelPolleres]
- topic: update semantics
- 15:18:24 [AxelPolleres]
- http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/update-1.1/Overview.xml#formalModel
- 15:19:22 [NickH]
- sorry, I am finding it really hard to hear/scribe due to a lot of noise around me
- 15:20:28 [AxelPolleres]
- http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/update-1.1/Overview.xml#def_deleteinsertoperation
- 15:20:42 [NickH]
- AxelPolleres: one of the main issues is around the DELETE operation
- 15:21:23 [NickH]
- AxelPolleres: there a problems around an earlier resolution
- 15:21:48 [AxelPolleres]
- http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2010-03-09#resolution_2
- 15:22:06 [AxelPolleres]
- "Blank nodes in DELETE templates act as "wild cards", effectively as variables bound to all RDF terms; the same blank node cannot be used in the WHERE clause and the template, or in multiple BGPs, SteveH, dcharbon2, LeeF abstaining "
- 15:22:51 [AxelPolleres]
- DELETE { ?X :knows [] } WHERE {...}
- 15:22:51 [NickH]
- AxelPolleres: the idea is that bnodes can act as wildcards
- 15:23:19 [NickH]
- AxelPolleres: there has been quite a bit of disccussion about this on email
- 15:23:30 [NickH]
- AxelPolleres: wondering if anyone has looked into it?
- 15:23:36 [NickH]
- AxelPolleres: or has comments about it?
- 15:24:08 [NickH]
- <silence on phone>
- 15:24:09 [NickH]
- AxelPolleres: we definately need some feedback about it
- 15:24:36 [NickH]
- AxelPolleres: I have two proposals summaries in email:
- 15:24:50 [NickH]
- s/summaries/summarised/
- 15:24:58 [AxelPolleres]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2011JanMar/0317.html
- 15:25:00 [AxelPolleres]
- q?
- 15:25:42 [NickH]
- AxelPolleres: it looks to me like there are three options to deal with blank nodes in delete queries
- 15:25:59 [NickH]
- AxelPolleres: third option would be to override the previous resolution
- 15:26:40 [NickH]
- AxelPolleres: option 1: blank nodes in the delete templete would be replaced by variables
- 15:27:36 [NickH]
- AxelPolleres: option 2 is to copy the modified template into the body
- 15:28:35 [bglimm]
- Does ?X have to be bound in the WHERE clause?
- 15:29:00 [pgearon]
- no, it may not be
- 15:29:18 [AxelPolleres]
- option3: overriding the original resolution and treating bnodes and in CONSTRUCT/INSERT
- 15:29:53 [AxelPolleres]
- (ehich means they have no effect in DELETE)
- 15:30:24 [Zakim]
- +??P3
- 15:30:33 [NickH]
- Zakim, ??P3 is me
- 15:30:33 [Zakim]
- +NickH; got it
- 15:31:20 [AxelPolleres]
- Strawpoll: option 1, 2, or 3?
- 15:31:20 [NickH]
- AxelPolleres: straw poll
- 15:31:32 [pgearon]
- 3
- 15:31:35 [NickH]
- 3
- 15:31:49 [bglimm]
- undecided
- 15:31:49 [kasei]
- 0
- 15:31:56 [sandro]
- undecided
- 15:31:58 [MattPerry]
- 0
- 15:31:59 [cbuilara]
- 0
- 15:32:06 [AxelPolleres]
- 1 or2 (but can live with 3)
- 15:32:06 [bglimm]
- I have to think about it first
- 15:32:49 [NickH]
- AxelPolleres: would like people to think about it for next week
- 15:33:22 [Zakim]
- -NickH
- 15:33:27 [AxelPolleres]
- All, please look at a) update semantics, b) the different options in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2011JanMar/0317.html
- 15:33:41 [pgearon]
- Re update semantics: My concern is developing a complex description to enable a feature when it is exactly equivalent to the existing alternatives
- 15:34:10 [NickH]
- AxelPolleres: do you have any thoughts about it Alex?
- 15:34:16 [AxelPolleres]
- strawpoll doesn't give a clear indication so far.
- 15:34:19 [NickH]
- Alex: I will need to think about it more
- 15:34:44 [bglimm]
- I sugested the rewording for BGP matching extensions
- 15:35:07 [AxelPolleres]
- birte, link?
- 15:35:07 [bglimm]
- I'll search for it
- 15:35:41 [NickH]
- AxelPolleres: can you take a look at the update semantics emails
- 15:36:06 [bglimm]
- Hm, the RIF text was already changed
- 15:36:14 [bglimm]
- with infinite answers
- 15:36:35 [bglimm]
- yes, it is should now
- 15:36:46 [bglimm]
- but the text is not in line with the rest of the spec
- 15:36:57 [bglimm]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2011JanMar/0276.html
- 15:36:57 [AxelPolleres]
- it is on the to_last_call page
- 15:37:06 [bglimm]
- that's the suggestion for rewording
- 15:37:21 [AxelPolleres]
- it is not yet implemented, you mean?
- 15:37:31 [bglimm]
- it uses "answer set" instead of solution sequence etc
- 15:37:44 [AxelPolleres]
- AOB?
- 15:37:52 [bglimm]
- "pattern instance mapping" means "slotion mapping" etc
- 15:38:09 [bglimm]
- Ok
- 15:38:22 [Zakim]
- -Sandro
- 15:38:23 [AxelPolleres]
- adjourned.
- 15:38:24 [MattPerry]
- bye
- 15:38:24 [bglimm]
- I can also try and dial in without my headset, so I can talk
- 15:38:27 [Zakim]
- -AlexPassant
- 15:38:31 [MattPerry]
- \quit
- 15:38:31 [Zakim]
- -NickH.a
- 15:38:33 [Zakim]
- -OlivierCorby
- 15:38:33 [Zakim]
- -cbuilara
- 15:38:37 [Zakim]
- -kasei
- 15:38:38 [Zakim]
- -pgearon
- 15:38:42 [Zakim]
- -MattPerry
- 15:38:50 [bglimm]
- but then I can't type properly because I have to hold the phone with one hand
- 15:38:50 [AxelPolleres]
- birte... skype/phone?
- 15:39:17 [bglimm]
- I can dial in again without headset
- 15:39:20 [AxelPolleres]
- rrsagent, make records public
- 15:40:21 [AxelPolleres]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2011JanMar/0276.html
- 15:41:56 [Zakim]
- -AxelPolleres
- 15:41:59 [Zakim]
- -bglimm
- 15:42:00 [Zakim]
- SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has ended
- 15:42:01 [Zakim]
- Attendees were cbuilara, AxelPolleres, NickH, bglimm, kasei, pgearon, AlexPassant, +33.9.52.29.aaaa, OlivierCorby, MattPerry, Sandro
- 15:43:30 [AxelPolleres]
- summary: we will put update semantics (incl bnodes) http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2011JanMar/0317.html and BGP matching extensions http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2011JanMar/0276.html on next week's agenda, please have a look.
- 15:43:48 [AxelPolleres]
- rrsagent, make records public
- 15:44:40 [AxelPolleres]
- thanks nick for scribing, BTW
- 16:01:21 [SteveH]
- SteveH has joined #sparql
- 16:14:06 [SteveH]
- AxelPolleres, did AndyS pass on my apologies? I wasn't wure who was dialed in
- 16:14:17 [SteveH]
- we lost internet connection at the office
- 16:14:28 [pgearon]
- AndyS is offline this week
- 16:14:52 [SteveH]
- ah, nuts
- 16:16:04 [pgearon]
- It was a short meeting
- 16:16:07 [AxelPolleres]
- anyways, we still have you on for next week, you won't get around scribing ;-)
- 16:16:23 [SteveH]
- heh, that was the least of my worries :)
- 16:16:42 [SteveH]
- our whole office is running of one 3g stick :-/
- 16:17:15 [AxelPolleres]
- steve, let me know if there's anything urgent /pending on query to be discussed next week... I put an initial agenda for next week up at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Agenda-2011-03-01 already
- 16:17:19 [pgearon]
- the "blank nodes in delete" issue could have used some more input, but you were only one of many people who wasn't there, so it wasn't a big deal
- 16:18:38 [AxelPolleres]
- BTW, the thing you raised on CONSTRUCT semantics, steve... you ok with my rewording suggestion? http://www.w3.org/mid/0B759463-3E4D-4787-B0E2-638D44FBE232@deri.org
- 16:18:40 [AxelPolleres]
- ?
- 17:47:39 [Zakim]
- Zakim has left #sparql