19:53:34 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #html-a11y
19:53:34 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/02/21-html-a11y-irc
19:53:36 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
19:53:36 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #html-a11y
19:53:38 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 2119
19:53:38 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_PFWG(A11Y)3:00PM scheduled to start in 7 minutes
19:53:39 <trackbot> Meeting: HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
19:53:39 <trackbot> Date: 21 February 2011
19:54:06 <richardschwerdtfe> Meeting: HTML Canvas Accessibility Subteam
19:54:09 <richardschwerdtfe> chair: Rich
19:56:06 <oedipus> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-canvas-api/2011JanMar/0071.html
19:56:12 <Zakim> WAI_PFWG(A11Y)3:00PM has now started
19:56:19 <Zakim> +Gregory_Rosmaita
19:56:36 <oedipus> scribe: Gregory_Rosmaita
19:56:40 <oedipus> scribenick: oedipus
19:57:53 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/02/21-html-a11y-minutes.html oedipus
19:58:30 <Zakim> +Rich
20:00:08 <oedipus> Google Web Toolkit (GWT) 2.2 released this week now includes support for the HTML5 Canvas tag, which enables building "dynamic images/animations/transitions all in HTML with GWT."
20:00:13 <Downchuck> Downchuck has joined #html-a11y
20:01:14 <richardschwerdtfe> Agenda is here:
20:01:16 <richardschwerdtfe> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-canvas-api/2011JanMar/0071.html
20:02:08 <Zakim> + +1.949.637.aaaa
20:02:17 <Downchuck> hello
20:02:56 <oedipus> zakim, aaaa is Chuck_Pritchard
20:02:56 <Zakim> +Chuck_Pritchard; got it
20:03:06 <oedipus> TOPIC: Getting Started/Updates
20:03:23 <oedipus> RS: if FrankO doesn't join, will submit proposal as last circulated to the list
20:03:26 <Downchuck> http://mugtug.com/darkroom/
20:03:36 <oedipus> RS: chuck, do you have an example?
20:03:41 <oedipus> CP: still bug-fixing
20:03:56 <oedipus> canvas 2d API change proposal cover letter: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-canvas-api/2011JanMar/0070.html
20:03:59 <oedipus> canvas 2d API change proposal: http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/CaretSelection
20:04:03 <oedipus> CanvasEditor.html: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-canvas-api/2011JanMar/att-0071/CanvasEditor.html
20:04:08 <oedipus> HTML_Canvas_2DContext20110217.html: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-canvas-api/2011JanMar/att-0071/HTML_Canvas_2DContext20110217.html
20:04:28 <oedipus> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/CaretSelection
20:04:37 <oedipus> TOPIC: Outstanding Bugs
20:04:46 <oedipus> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=11328
20:04:54 <oedipus> RS: pixel resolutoin -- what happened with that?
20:05:10 <oedipus> CP: hixie and mozilla against that kind of work -- is a problem -- MS already exposes it
20:05:20 <oedipus> CP: hixie handed over to CSS WG where it sits
20:05:23 <oedipus> RS: what to do?
20:05:28 <oedipus> CP: "slip in" via CSS
20:05:37 <oedipus> CP: for FF can do collectoin of media queries
20:06:07 <oedipus> CP: problem because vetoed by mozilla -- do have a workaround, but don't know what to do other than to bring to webkit'
20:06:12 <oedipus> RS: close this bug?
20:06:30 <oedipus> CP: assigned to CSS OM
20:06:44 <oedipus> CP: CSS resopnse "backlog is huge" -- sitting for at least a month
20:06:51 <oedipus> resize event during zoom: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=11329
20:07:02 <oedipus> CP: everyone in agreement -- needs to be added to specs
20:07:06 <richardschwerdtfe> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=11329
20:07:06 <Downchuck> #canvas.CompatibilityMozScreen { width: 1px; } @media all and (min--moz-device-pixel-ratio: .3) {  #canvas.CompatibilityMozScreen { width: .3px; } }
20:07:11 <Downchuck> that's the trick for Firefox zoom
20:07:31 <oedipus> CP: asignee in bug tracker, don't need to do ourselves
20:07:33 <oedipus> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=11342
20:07:50 <oedipus> RS: addressed in latest drafts and change proposal
20:08:19 <oedipus> RS: in change proposal under "Positive Effects"
20:08:42 <oedipus> RS: test metrics in Canvas 2D API http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-canvas-api/2011JanMar/att-0071/HTML_Canvas_2DContext20110217.html
20:09:02 <richardschwerdtfe> s/test/text/
20:09:13 <richardschwerdtfe> yw
20:09:43 <oedipus> CP: setCaretSelection API -- if selection not in focus, still works
20:09:48 <oedipus> RS: changed that to accomodate that
20:10:19 <oedipus> TOPIC: Strategy for positioning fallback content relative to corresponding canvas UI drawing counterparts.
20:10:41 <oedipus> RS: will take a lot longer than we have -- create issue for LC next step -- either accept or not
20:10:50 <oedipus> RS: strategies for positioning content
20:11:18 <oedipus> RS: first, imagemap provides coordinate info -- can do that or use javascript according to FrankO
20:11:26 <oedipus> CP: imagemap proposal been struck down
20:11:59 <oedipus> RS: not doing imagemap, but interesting that elements with imagemap can take coordinates, so can fallback content for CANVAS provide coordinates through fallback
20:12:20 <oedipus> CP: might be able to track positions via jscript object or can stick directly into DOM -- doesn't harm anything
20:12:43 <oedipus> CP: may have an effect --- no one uses fallback content to toggle on and off -- not available, but supposed to be a long-term option
20:12:57 <oedipus> RS: reasonable strategy for doing this?  get width and height, right?
20:13:06 <oedipus> CP: yes, full CSS spectrum of adding info to elements
20:13:26 <oedipus> CP: keeping eye out for use case for exposing all of that data -- 
20:13:33 <oedipus> \CP: not addressed yet in CSS Transformations
20:14:14 <oedipus> CP: CSS Transformations don't provide AT with updates that screen has moved; if canvas animated, as soon as move over few pixels, have to update a lot of elements -- complexity we need to keep in mind
20:14:28 <oedipus> RS: imagemap -- coordinates relative to context they are in?
20:14:30 <oedipus> CP: yes
20:14:49 <oedipus> RS: if UA moved, UA would update coordinates; app author only has to worry to extent that are visible on screen
20:14:55 <oedipus> RS: can't scroll and imagemap
20:15:35 <oedipus> CP: could get same using SVG to define all shapes and z-index in relation to each other
20:16:14 <oedipus> CP: allowed to use transparent SVG elements to do these things (get a whole lot of data to AT) -- use DrawFocusRing and CaretSelection and telling it only what caret is on
20:16:50 <oedipus> RS: could use x,y coordinate to move magnifier to whereever one wants -- not tied to caret in A11y API -- could position wherever one wants -- zoom to drawning object, put caret there
20:20:25 <oedipus> RS: second issue: what other ways can we set positioning other than x,y coordinates -- javascript?
20:20:35 <oedipus> CP: not sure what FrankO means just by "javascript"
20:20:38 <oedipus> RS: can do via CSS
20:20:48 <oedipus> CP: may be referring to CSS absolute positioning
20:22:09 <oedipus> CP: in demo i have on darkroom site, am able to use our semantics (DrawFocusRing and CaretSelection) -- have TTS via google translate API running -- alternating via Mac and PC so can recreate each step on each platform -- works as well in my browser as in their apps -- when scroll, some events don't get set up the way they should so accessibiolity focus ring gets stuck until type something in
20:22:56 <oedipus> RS: if scroll window, position moves -- drawFocusRing around object is necessary step for retaining focus when scrolled
20:23:27 <oedipus> CP: doesn't actually update where FocusRingSelection is on element -- does update in some cases, but only if change between 2 elements
20:23:44 <oedipus> CP: if send focus event on same element, will ignore repeated calls to update x,y position
20:23:57 <oedipus> CP: using our semantics, trying to get same result as apple
20:24:27 <oedipus> note: CP referring to http://mugtug.com/darkroom/
20:24:47 <oedipus> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/CaretSelection
20:25:33 <oedipus> RS: add something to references in Chanqe Proposal so that http://mugtug.com/darkroom/ cited
20:25:48 <oedipus> RS: what to call this?  canvas focus tracking simulation?
20:25:59 <oedipus> CP: good -- focus management too
20:26:07 <oedipus> RS: put under "development"
20:26:10 <oedipus> CP: fine with me
20:26:25 <oedipus> RS: now under "references" in change proposal
20:26:36 <oedipus> CP: JAWS doesn't work as well in IE9
20:28:43 <oedipus> GJR: RC beta of IE9 very sporadic with speech--problem updating info when switch tab to tab; forms controls often don't respond to keyboard input, but need routing of JAWS cursor to PC cursor, etc. -- very unstable
20:29:08 <oedipus> CP: shift-based part necessary at moment -- every UA has different method to get focus
20:30:04 <oedipus> CP: working through a lot of quirks to get same result on the software combos we discussed
20:32:08 <oedipus> GJR: am running FF so can use Chatzilla so can't check using IE9 right now -- will do when CP alerts us that bug-fixing de-quirking done for testing
20:32:12 <Downchuck> I'm using "shift+space" to turn a11y on the app at the moment
20:32:17 <Downchuck> yes, will dequirk
20:32:21 <richardschwerdtfe> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/CaretSelection#References
20:35:59 <oedipus> '''''Italic text''
20:37:55 <oedipus> RS: propose we adjourn
20:37:57 <oedipus> CP: ok
20:37:59 <oedipus> GJR: ok
20:38:06 <oedipus> s/'''''Italic text''//
20:39:54 <oedipus> ISSUE-131: Should we add a caret location API to canvas, or is the focus API sufficient? http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/131
20:39:54 <trackbot> Sorry... adding notes to ISSUE-131 failed, please let sysreq know about it
20:40:33 <oedipus> GJR: we have done our due dilligence in notifiying others
20:41:08 <oedipus> RS: barring no objections at this time from Microsoft or Mozilla does Canvas Subgroup agree to submit change proposal for HTML WG ISSUE-131?
20:41:12 <oedipus> CP: no objection
20:41:18 <oedipus> GJR: no objection
20:42:08 <oedipus> proposed RESOLUTION: Submit http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/CaretSelection Change Proposal to HTML WG as has been available for review
20:42:45 <oedipus> RESOLUTION: Submit http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/CaretSelection Change Proposal to HTML WG as it has been available for review and individuals have been asked to review it specifically
20:42:57 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/02/21-html-a11y-minutes.html oedipus
20:45:15 <oedipus> RS: will send email to Sam Ruby, Paul Cotton and Maciej to alert that change proposal for HTML WG Issue 131 complete and vetted by subteqam
20:45:24 <oedipus> s/subteqam/subteam/
20:45:35 <oedipus> [adjournded]
20:45:36 <Zakim> -Chuck_Pritchard
20:45:39 <Zakim> -Gregory_Rosmaita
20:45:40 <Zakim> WAI_PFWG(A11Y)3:00PM has ended
20:45:42 <Zakim> Attendees were Gregory_Rosmaita, Rich, +1.949.637.aaaa, Chuck_Pritchard
20:45:59 <oedipus> present- +1.949.637.aaaa
20:46:02 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/02/21-html-a11y-minutes.html oedipus
20:46:43 <oedipus> zakim, please part
20:46:43 <Zakim> Zakim has left #html-a11y
20:46:47 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/02/21-html-a11y-minutes.html oedipus
20:47:31 <oedipus> present+ Chuck_Pritchard, Rich, Gregory_Rosmaita
20:47:33 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/02/21-html-a11y-minutes.html oedipus
20:48:13 <oedipus> present: Chuck_Pritchard, Rich, Gregory_Rosmaita
20:48:15 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/02/21-html-a11y-minutes.html oedipus
21:45:55 <oedipus> oedipus has joined #html-a11y
21:48:21 <oedipus> the change proposal template once at: http://www.w3.org/wiki/HTML/ChangeProposalTemplate has disappeared and i cannot regenerate it from mediawiki -- can someone restore the Change Proposal Template?
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