IRC log of sparql on 2011-02-15

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:56:32 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #sparql
14:56:32 [RRSAgent]
logging to
14:56:38 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #sparql
14:56:46 [AxelPolleres]
Zakim, this will be SPARQL
14:56:46 [Zakim]
ok, AxelPolleres; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 4 minutes
14:56:50 [Zakim]
SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has now started
14:56:57 [Zakim]
14:57:00 [AxelPolleres]
trackbot, start meeting
14:57:02 [cbuilara]
zakim, ??P4 is me
14:57:02 [Zakim]
+cbuilara; got it
14:57:03 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs world
14:57:05 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be 77277
14:57:05 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 3 minutes
14:57:06 [trackbot]
Meeting: SPARQL Working Group Teleconference
14:57:06 [trackbot]
Date: 15 February 2011
14:57:39 [AxelPolleres]
14:57:45 [ocorby]
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14:57:45 [AxelPolleres]
Chair: Axel Polleres
14:58:01 [AxelPolleres]
Regrets: Paul, NickH, Chime
14:58:30 [SteveH__]
SteveH__ has joined #sparql
14:58:54 [kasei]
Zakim seems a bit slow this morning
14:59:16 [AxelPolleres]
Zakim, who is on the phone?
14:59:16 [Zakim]
I notice SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has restarted
14:59:17 [Zakim]
On the phone I see cbuilara, kasei, ??P7, AxelPolleres, +34.92.38.aaaa
14:59:27 [AndyS]
zakim, ??P7 is me
14:59:27 [Zakim]
+AndyS; got it
14:59:33 [ocorby]
Zakim, aaaa is me
14:59:33 [Zakim]
+ocorby; got it
14:59:38 [Zakim]
+ +49.911.973.4.aabb
14:59:52 [NicoM]
zakim, +49 is me
14:59:52 [Zakim]
+NicoM; got it
15:01:50 [AndyS]
Re: "Service vs. Graphstore?" -- I believe this is sorted now - the doc has URLs that make it clear.
15:02:40 [AlexPassant]
AlexPassant has joined #sparql
15:02:58 [MattPerry]
MattPerry has joined #sparql
15:03:05 [Zakim]
15:03:15 [bglimm]
Zakim, mute me
15:03:15 [Zakim]
bglimm should now be muted
15:03:15 [cbuilara]
I can scribe
15:03:16 [AxelPolleres]
Zakim, who is on the phone?
15:03:17 [Zakim]
On the phone I see cbuilara, kasei, AndyS, AxelPolleres, ocorby, NicoM, bglimm (muted)
15:03:24 [AxelPolleres]
scribe: carlos
15:03:41 [Zakim]
15:03:47 [Zakim]
+ +1.617.553.aacc
15:03:51 [SteveH]
SteveH has joined #sparql
15:03:56 [LeeF]
zakim, aacc is me
15:03:56 [Zakim]
+LeeF; got it
15:04:11 [AxelPolleres]
15:04:23 [AxelPolleres]
topic: admin
15:04:28 [SteveH__]
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15:04:34 [AxelPolleres]
PROPOSED: Approve minutes at
15:05:09 [AxelPolleres]
RESOLVED: Approve minutes at
15:05:24 [SteveH__]
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15:05:29 [cbuilara]
AxelPolleres: look at comments page
15:05:36 [AxelPolleres]
15:05:46 [Zakim]
15:05:54 [SteveH__]
SteveH__ has joined #sparql
15:05:56 [AxelPolleres]
ACTION: Axel to update comments page
15:05:56 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-390 - Update comments page [on Axel Polleres - due 2011-02-22].
15:06:23 [LeeF]
I need Chime to look at my response for GR, but I'll ping him offline
15:06:23 [cbuilara]
AxelPolleres: Does anybody need confirmation for responses?
15:06:51 [Zakim]
15:07:13 [AndyS]
scribe: AndyS
15:07:23 [Zakim]
15:07:27 [AndyS]
response for GK-1 in progress
15:07:34 [cbuilara]
zakim, IPcaller is me
15:07:34 [Zakim]
+cbuilara; got it
15:07:47 [AndyS]
scribe: cbuilara
15:08:02 [AndyS]
Regrets for next week: AndyS
15:08:17 [AxelPolleres]
topic: to last call
15:08:27 [AxelPolleres]
15:08:48 [cbuilara]
AxelPolleres: Andy, quick report on query
15:09:13 [cbuilara]
AndyS: nothing to comment
15:09:31 [cbuilara]
AxelPolleres: status of section 11?
15:09:37 [AxelPolleres]
15:09:54 [AxelPolleres]
steveh any news on section 11?
15:10:01 [SteveH]
AxelPolleres, sorry, I'm having comms problems, can't connect to london, and out voip system wont dial international numbers
15:10:09 [SteveH]
will be on viaskype shortly
15:10:18 [AxelPolleres]
let's take this to mail so.
15:10:23 [cbuilara]
AxelPolleres: Talk this by email
15:10:34 [AxelPolleres]
let us know status updates on section 11 and schedule, if possible
15:10:38 [Zakim]
15:10:43 [SteveH]
Zakim, ??P25 is me
15:10:43 [Zakim]
+SteveH; got it
15:10:59 [cbuilara]
AxelPolleres: Steve, report on section 11
15:11:30 [cbuilara]
SteveH: I made change removing errors, section is complete
15:11:39 [cbuilara]
SteveH: section is ready for review
15:13:14 [AxelPolleres]
15:13:52 [cbuilara]
AxelPolleres: we want to have a handle to the number of errors in the aggregate (in their semantics)
15:14:28 [cbuilara]
AxelPolleres: proposal, drop this requirement (handling of errors)
15:14:32 [AxelPolleres]
15:14:50 [AndyS]
15:14:52 [LeeF]
Does anyone remember if the # of errors supported a paricular use case? all i remember is that it seemed like a nice thing to do at the time
15:15:05 [AxelPolleres]
15:15:11 [AxelPolleres]
PROPOSED: Drop error counts in the semantics definition of aggregate functions, overriding with the insight that it is not needed/special aggregates could define/implement error counts.
15:15:25 [AxelPolleres]
Andy: proposal doesn't cover all
15:16:42 [LeeF]
PROPOSED: Aggregates are not passed a dedicated count of errors, but instead are passed a multiset of values that includes errors as well
15:17:17 [AndyS]
15:17:32 [SteveH]
15:17:44 [cbuilara]
AxelPolleres: hppy with LeeF proposal
15:17:51 [AxelPolleres]
PROPOSED: Aggregates are not passed a dedicated count of errors, but instead are passed a multiset of values that includes errors as well, overriding
15:18:00 [SteveH]
15:18:01 [LeeF]
15:18:04 [LeeF]
15:18:10 [NicoM]
15:18:13 [bglimm]
15:18:17 [AxelPolleres]
RESOLVED: Aggregates are not passed a dedicated count of errors, but instead are passed a multiset of values that includes errors as well, overriding
15:18:39 [cbuilara]
AxelPolleres: Anything more Steve?
15:19:10 [AxelPolleres]
15:19:39 [cbuilara]
AxelPolleres: section 11 is also ready for review
15:20:27 [cbuilara]
AxelPolleres: section 18 keep updating for when the document is ready for review
15:21:12 [AxelPolleres]
ACTION: matt to review Query, particularly Section 18
15:21:12 [trackbot]
Sorry, couldn't find user - matt
15:21:26 [AxelPolleres]
ACTION: matthew to review Query, particularly Section 18
15:21:26 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-391 - Review Query, particularly Section 18 [on Matthew Perry - due 2011-02-22].
15:22:15 [LeeF]
15:22:21 [AxelPolleres]
ACTION: Lee to review query
15:22:22 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-392 - Review query [on Lee Feigenbaum - due 2011-02-22].
15:22:34 [AxelPolleres]
ACTION: Axel to review query
15:22:34 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-393 - Review query [on Axel Polleres - due 2011-02-22].
15:22:47 [cbuilara]
AxelPolleres: Update document
15:22:52 [AxelPolleres]
subtopic: update
15:23:08 [LeeF]
I just sent an email about it.
15:23:14 [LeeF]
I'm not inclined to re-open that issue.
15:23:32 [cbuilara]
ocorby: blank nodes comment, still waiting for feedback, formal model -> issue with xml, it will be online
15:23:58 [cbuilara]
ocorby: formal model will be ready for review
15:24:10 [cbuilara]
ocorby: waiting for comments
15:24:12 [AlexPassant]
15:26:09 [cbuilara]
AxelPolleres: wait for what Paul can do in the document before going to last call
15:26:19 [AxelPolleres]
if anybody has concrete proposal, please mail/respond!
15:26:20 [cbuilara]
AxellPolleres: people can still make proposals
15:26:38 [cbuilara]
AxelPolleres: protocol, any progress there?
15:26:46 [LeeF]
(As I understand it, Paul is Ok with making the change in the document, he just wanted to ask about the resolution.)
15:27:24 [cbuilara]
AxelPolleres: Topic: Service desription
15:28:17 [cbuilara]
kasei: modelling currently has services as distinct from the URL which access an endpoint
15:28:44 [cbuilara]
kasei: the issue is whether the service should actually be the endpoint url
15:28:57 [SteveH]
15:29:03 [cbuilara]
kasei: Andy had a good summary email
15:29:27 [AndyS]
"Service" and "Service endpoint"
15:30:04 [cbuilara]
kasei: any comments?
15:30:36 [LeeF]
15:30:58 [LeeF]
ack AndyS
15:31:01 [LeeF]
ack SteveH
15:32:12 [kasei]
15:32:51 [LeeF]
ack karl
15:32:52 [LeeF]
ack kasei
15:32:56 [cbuilara]
kasei: dropping the URL would make me happy, but I'm comfortable with ANdy's description
15:33:18 [LeeF]
(sounds good to me)
15:33:44 [cbuilara]
kasei: favor not dropping the URL as long as it meets the conformance test
15:34:12 [cbuilara]
AxelPolleres: any objections?
15:34:57 [bglimm]
Zakim, unmute me
15:34:57 [Zakim]
bglimm should no longer be muted
15:34:58 [cbuilara]
topic: Entailment
15:35:09 [cbuilara]
AxelPolleres: Any news?
15:35:10 [LeeF]
I haven't heard anything from Clark & Parsia
15:35:36 [cbuilara]
AxelPolleres: briefing the reviewers, email on the test cases
15:35:37 [MattPerry]
I'm pretty sure Zhe's review is finished
15:35:40 [bglimm]
15:35:46 [bglimm]
I think my mic is not working
15:35:48 [bglimm]
15:35:55 [bglimm]
I am fine with that, will check the email
15:36:03 [MattPerry]
15:36:11 [cbuilara]
Topic: Fed query
15:36:19 [bglimm]
I haven't heard back from Zhe, but I think I addressed it
15:36:40 [bglimm]
Zakim, mute me
15:36:40 [Zakim]
bglimm should now be muted
15:36:41 [cbuilara]
can you hear me?
15:37:28 [cbuilara]
cbuilara: fix all these by end of February
15:37:32 [AxelPolleres]
carlos: will finish including comments by end of the months
15:38:16 [cbuilara]
AxelPolleres: if you need any comment Carlos, bring it up at the list
15:38:19 [cbuilara]
zakim, mute me
15:38:19 [Zakim]
cbuilara should now be muted
15:38:32 [AxelPolleres]
15:38:35 [cbuilara]
AxelPolleres: any more comment?
15:38:52 [AxelPolleres]
Axel: JSON still needs maybe editing power to include comments
15:39:30 [cbuilara]
AxelPolleres: not much progress
15:39:37 [AxelPolleres]
... Overview doc not much progress
15:40:01 [AxelPolleres]
topic: test status
15:40:22 [cbuilara]
AxelPolleres: not much mail about that topic
15:40:43 [AndyS]
PP changes
15:40:45 [cbuilara]
AxelPolleres: is anything more test cases can be conformed?
15:42:08 [AxelPolleres]
ACTION: Matt to look over PP test cases and check whether they still apply, change if necessary
15:42:08 [trackbot]
Sorry, couldn't find user - Matt
15:42:19 [AxelPolleres]
ACTION: Matthew to look over PP test cases and check whether they still apply, change if necessary
15:42:19 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-394 - Look over PP test cases and check whether they still apply, change if necessary [on Matthew Perry - due 2011-02-22].
15:42:42 [bglimm]
Yes, sorted. I just reply to your email
15:43:25 [cbuilara]
topic: Issue status
15:43:37 [AxelPolleres]
15:44:07 [cbuilara]
AxelPolleres: we have decided that we won't have an order parameter for GROUP_CONCAT
15:44:10 [AxelPolleres]
15:44:54 [AndyS]
As this has come up, maybe it's quicker to do it than deal with comments
15:45:01 [cbuilara]
AxelPolleres: we don't think we can do it in a reasonable time, moved to postponed issues, opinions?
15:45:18 [cbuilara]
AxelPolleres: can we do it?
15:46:10 [cbuilara]
AndyS: I was suggesting that the order by affect the group concat itself
15:46:32 [SteveH]
15:46:48 [cbuilara]
SteveH: it is probably too much work at this stage
15:47:06 [cbuilara]
SteveH: not just the order by applies to all aggregates
15:48:50 [AndyS]
"""Sample(M) = v, where v in Flatten(M)"""
15:49:46 [kasei]
15:49:51 [cbuilara]
AxelPolleres: go ahead, Steve, if you have time edit it, if not, move to postponed issues
15:49:57 [SteveH]
I won't have time to edit it
15:50:11 [LeeF]
15:50:31 [AxelPolleres]
propose to raise an ISSUE now and just see whether we can have time to address it before LC
15:50:45 [cbuilara]
AxelPolleres: is that ok?
15:50:47 [AxelPolleres]
15:50:53 [AndyS]
15:51:11 [cbuilara]
AxelPolleres: go ahead with it
15:51:45 [AxelPolleres]
ISSUE: Should there be an ORDER BY for aggregates, particularly GROUP_CONCAT
15:51:45 [trackbot]
Created ISSUE-66 - Should there be an ORDER BY for aggregates, particularly GROUP_CONCAT ; please complete additional details at .
15:52:22 [cbuilara]
AxelPolleres: issues list
15:52:50 [cbuilara]
AxelPolleres: sparql update issue addressed? anything ongoing
15:52:51 [cbuilara]
15:52:54 [Zakim]
15:53:26 [AlexPassant]
there's section "A Security Considerations (Informative)" on the new doc
15:53:28 [AxelPolleres]
ISSUE-19: probably can be closed upon results LC review of Update
15:53:28 [trackbot]
ISSUE-19 Security issues on SPARQL/UPdate notes added
15:53:58 [kasei]
i think 33 can be closed because we're not doing wsdl anymore
15:54:39 [cbuilara]
AxelPolleres: do we still have to discuss all the http errors? I will talk to Lee on that issue
15:54:53 [AxelPolleres]
ACTION: Axel to get in touch with lee on ISSUE-33 (on the mailinglist)
15:54:53 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-395 - Get in touch with lee on ISSUE-33 (on the mailinglist) [on Axel Polleres - due 2011-02-22].
15:54:58 [cbuilara]
AxelPolleres: on the mailing list
15:55:21 [cbuilara]
AxelPolleres: protocols should remain open
15:56:19 [NicoM]
action 356 on SD review can be closed
15:56:19 [trackbot]
Sorry, couldn't find user - 356
15:56:24 [AxelPolleres]
close ACTION-384
15:56:24 [trackbot]
ACTION-384 Review fed query closed
15:56:33 [AxelPolleres]
close ACTION-385
15:56:33 [trackbot]
ACTION-385 Review fed query closed
15:56:56 [cbuilara]
AxelPolleres: any other issue for the day?
15:57:03 [SteveH]
bye all
15:57:05 [AxelPolleres]
15:57:07 [NicoM]
15:57:07 [bglimm]
15:57:08 [Zakim]
15:57:10 [MattPerry]
15:57:10 [Zakim]
15:57:11 [cbuilara]
15:57:12 [Zakim]
15:57:14 [Zakim]
15:57:15 [Zakim]
15:57:16 [Zakim]
15:57:16 [Zakim]
15:57:22 [Zakim]
15:57:23 [AxelPolleres]
carlos, you know hotw to do the minutes?
15:57:27 [cbuilara]
15:57:35 [cbuilara]
I will chek it in the wiki
15:57:41 [SteveH]
AxelPolleres, sorry I couldn't scribe, phone system here is failing
15:57:47 [AxelPolleres]
rrsagent, make records public
15:57:56 [AxelPolleres]
Steveh, ok to scribe next week?
15:58:07 [Zakim]
15:58:09 [cbuilara]
that's it? only that command to generate the minutes?
15:58:13 [AxelPolleres]
15:58:20 [AxelPolleres]
carlos, go there...
15:58:39 [cbuilara]
ok, I was cheking it now
15:58:53 [AxelPolleres]
there's a control panel, which allows you to copy the raw minutes to the wiki, there you can edit them, and then publish them from the control panel.
15:59:02 [AxelPolleres]
it is quite straightforward
15:59:09 [cbuilara]
15:59:19 [AxelPolleres]
let me know if you have troubles.
15:59:23 [AxelPolleres]
thanks all!
15:59:24 [SteveH]
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15:59:26 [Zakim]
SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has ended
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Attendees were cbuilara, kasei, AxelPolleres, +34.92.38.aaaa, AndyS, ocorby, +49.911.973.4.aabb, NicoM, bglimm, MattPerry, +1.617.553.aacc, LeeF, AlexPassant, SteveH
15:59:52 [AxelPolleres]
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17:53:51 [Zakim]
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18:08:34 [AndyS]
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20:49:49 [AndyS]
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