IRC log of tagmem on 2011-02-10

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:45:48 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #tagmem
13:45:48 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/02/10-tagmem-irc
13:45:57 [ht]
Meeting: TAG Face-to-Face
13:46:03 [ht]
Chair: Noah Mendelsohn
13:46:23 [ht]
Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2011/02/08-agenda
13:46:28 [ht]
Scribe: Henry S. Thompson
13:46:33 [ht]
Scribenick: ht
13:46:34 [plinss]
plinss has joined #tagmem
13:57:44 [noah]
noah has joined #tagmem
14:01:09 [masinter]
masinter has joined #tagmem
14:05:27 [TimblPhone]
TimblPhone has joined #tagmem
14:05:50 [TimblPhone]
Sorry late
14:08:09 [DKA]
DKA has joined #tagmem
14:10:39 [ht]
Topic: Review of Agenda
14:10:50 [ht]
NM: http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2011/02/08-agenda
14:13:24 [ht]
NM: Action item review is just checking that we've got the right things on the schedule in the near term
14:14:02 [ht]
NM: Open issue review is quite different, intended to check that we haven't let things fall between the cracks, or that we are carrying things we don't need to
14:14:22 [ht]
Topic: TAG Priorities for 2011
14:14:37 [ht]
NM: http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2011/02/08-agenda#priorities
14:15:02 [ht]
NM: Good for us to review each year where our effort is going, and how we are going to get it done
14:15:14 [ht]
... and be sure we have a shared notion of our priorities
14:15:29 [DKA]
q+ to suggest we take a look at w3c priorities : http://www.w3.org/2011/01/w3c2011
14:15:45 [ht]
NM: I'd like to get more than one person on the hook for at least some tasks, to share the work back and forth in some way
14:16:40 [TimblPhone]
TimblPhone has joined #tagmem
14:16:43 [ht]
NM: Looking back, we set outselves some priorities: Tracking/influencing the HTML work -- hard situation, but we did a number of things here and I think we did what we set to do
14:16:48 [timbl]
timbl has joined #tagmem
14:17:52 [ht]
NM: We also committed to a Web App Arch effort, since two years, but I don't feel that we've made as much progress here as I'd hoped -- we need to look hard at this to see whether we should modify or even drop our goal
14:18:22 [Ashok]
Ashok has joined #tagmem
14:18:25 [ht]
NM: Third goal was Metadata, an umbrella for many SemWeb issues
14:18:49 [ht]
JR, LM: No, Metadata is much narrower than that, it is about documents only
14:19:03 [ht]
TBL: +1 to keeping Metadata narrowly focussed
14:19:50 [ht]
NM: We've also done good work, largely due to LM's efforts, on a number of core web infrastructure issues, including IRIs and media types
14:20:00 [ht]
LM: I'm actually concerned IRIs are stalled
14:20:15 [noah]
file:///C:/Noah/Web/TAG/CVS/WWW/2001/tag/products/apiminimization.html
14:20:46 [noah]
http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/products/apiminimization.html
14:21:04 [ht]
NM: On the organizational front, we're trying to structure the management of our work via Tracker Products
14:21:15 [masinter]
s/IRIs are stalled/how little progress on IRIs lately/
14:21:15 [ht]
For example, http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/products/apiminimization.html
14:22:24 [ht]
NM: Tracker has Issues, Actions and Products
14:22:44 [ht]
... Actions can be associated with Issues or Products
14:23:50 [ht]
NM: See the Guide to TAG procedures [URI]
14:24:28 [timbl]
nm: Tracker is just not flexible enough to be able to connect issues and products
14:24:33 [ht]
NM: Please note that there are two 'Product' pages, one under 2001/tag/products and one under Tracker
14:24:52 [ht]
[Discussion about mechanism, not minuted]
14:26:10 [timbl]
nm: Need properties fo a product: Goals, scuuess criteria, deliverables with dates, schedules, TAG members assigned, related issues.
14:26:33 [ht]
NM: Intent is to have a small number of Products
14:26:39 [Norm]
Norm has joined #tagmem
14:26:54 [timbl]
We could do it in RTDF if we had a RDF export from Tracker of course
14:27:11 [ht]
NM: API Minimization is our first example: http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/products/apiminimization.html
14:28:03 [Norm]
Norm has joined #tagmem
14:28:05 [ht]
NM: Goals and Success criteria are the core of these
14:28:37 [ht]
... Made concrete by deliverables
14:30:07 [ht]
NM: Example Action: ACTION-514
14:30:15 [ht]
tracker, ACTION-514
14:30:24 [ht]
trackbot, ACTION-514
14:30:24 [trackbot]
Sorry, ht, I don't understand 'trackbot, ACTION-514'. Please refer to http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc for help
14:30:51 [ht]
LM: I think maybe we need two categories of Products
14:31:08 [ht]
... 1) Specific documents or other outputs'
14:31:09 [timbl]
q+
14:31:12 [ht]
s/'/;/
14:31:47 [ht]
LM: 2) Things which are more like some of our Issues, e.g. Track the HTML work
14:32:02 [ht]
NM: Yes, but can we just try your case (1) for now
14:33:21 [ht]
TBL: Mechanisms are your business as chair, the focus is on the content, that's where our energy should go
14:34:17 [ht]
TBL: But, having said that, my inner hacker has already built an ontology for issue/product/... management for the Tabulator
14:34:33 [ht]
... I could do more hacking and give you everything you want
14:34:47 [ht]
TBL: In practice lets go ahead as you propose
14:35:12 [ht]
... But in the background, maybe you and I should try to do something better
14:35:23 [ht]
Tutti: Crack on
14:36:09 [masinter]
q+
14:36:10 [ht]
NM: Regardless of mechanism, do we agree to focus our effort management on setting goals and success criteria, with dated deliverables
14:36:32 [ht]
q+ to cavill wrt education/oversight kinds of activities
14:36:38 [ht]
ack masinter
14:36:45 [jar]
jar has joined #tagmem
14:36:56 [jar]
It would be nice if (1) product name could be changed (2) products can be classified somehow (active, complete, etc) (3) notes could be added to product pages
14:37:18 [ht]
LM: We do other things -- coordination with the IETF
14:37:26 [masinter]
want to track the larger theme of W3C/IETF coordination at architectural level
14:37:26 [ht]
LM: This is a larger theme
14:37:59 [ht]
NM: For me that's an Issue, about how to coordinate with other bodies
14:38:25 [ht]
LM: It's not a management issue, it's a technical issue -- what is the relationship of Web Arch to Internet Arch
14:38:54 [ht]
LM: What's critical for a Product is Success criteria
14:39:47 [ht]
... And I think we _can_ identify and evaluate progress for this effort, so it can be a Product
14:40:18 [masinter]
q-
14:40:22 [ht]
NM: Other things can have ways to identify and evaluate progress, I want to keep Products for things with deliverables
14:40:44 [ht]
ack DKA
14:40:44 [Zakim]
DKA, you wanted to suggest we take a look at w3c priorities : http://www.w3.org/2011/01/w3c2011
14:40:47 [noah]
q?
14:41:10 [timbl]
q-
14:41:13 [timbl]
http://www.w3.org/2005/01/wf/flow#Task <-- the high-level concept of task
14:41:27 [ht]
DKA: Wrt TAG priorities, there's also the W3C 2011 Priorities and Milestones document
14:41:57 [ht]
DKA: http://www.w3.org/2011/01/w3c2011#Summary
14:42:22 [ht]
NM: This reminds me that there are two ways to come at our planning: internally-driven and externally-driven
14:42:38 [ht]
DKA: In particular, are we missing anything from Jeff Jaffe's list?
14:42:57 [ht]
NM: So take a tentative pass at what we are already spending time on
14:43:08 [ht]
... and then see if there's anything we're missing
14:43:29 [ht]
... at which point we will know if we're overcommitted
14:44:15 [ht]
LM: It's great to see a W3C priority list of technical topics
14:44:22 [ht]
... I'd like to respond to it
14:44:47 [ht]
... So this is higher priority for me than reviewing our current / past efforts
14:46:02 [ht]
HST: The chair is asking for help in getting to that, by first clarifying the status of our existing commitments
14:46:31 [ht]
q- ht
14:46:35 [masinter]
q?
14:46:54 [ht]
NM: Here's another Product: HTML/XML Unification
14:47:38 [ht]
http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/products/???
14:48:43 [masinter]
I think the "big theme" here is: architectural coherence of the W3C protocol and format work
14:48:45 [ht]
TBL: Wrt Success criteria, include documentation of important properties of the system which need to be preserved
14:49:14 [masinter]
And that XML / HTML is a lead element, because so much of W3C work is based on XML and yet HTML consistency with it is at issue
14:49:32 [masinter]
and that the TAG could look at whatever the "task force" produces in this context
14:49:53 [masinter]
the goal should not be "Unification" but "coherence" and "support for workflows and use cases"
14:50:33 [masinter]
and there are various sub-products, around IRIs and URI schemes....
14:50:46 [noah]
ACTION: Noah to build Tracker product page for HTML/XML Unification
14:50:47 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-522 - Build Tracker product page for HTML/XML Unification [on Noah Mendelsohn - due 2011-02-17].
14:51:04 [ht]
LM: The big theme here is architectural coherence between W3C RECs
14:51:53 [ht]
LM: I wouldn't want to track this as Unification, because that's not the goal even for XML vs. HTML
14:52:02 [ht]
... I don't think that goal stands up
14:52:37 [ht]
NM: I hear you as observing that there's a higher theme that this specific Product fits into
14:52:57 [ht]
and I think we can do that, we can have Themes
14:53:06 [ht]
s/and/NM: and/
14:53:38 [ht]
NM: The name comes from the history -- is the key point the abstraction of a higher level
14:53:55 [ht]
LM: Either this fits in one of the high-level things the JJ laid out, or something else
14:54:11 [ht]
... in this case, something else, which is a particular TAG responsibility
14:54:59 [ht]
NM: I hear this, and will try to find a way to organise our thinking at this level
14:55:08 [ht]
LM: Pass for now
14:58:51 [ht]
HST: [proposed minor agenda restructuring]
14:59:21 [ht]
Topic: Client-side Storage http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2011/02/08-agenda#webAppStorage
14:59:34 [ht]
ISSUE-60
14:59:42 [ht]
trackbot, ISSUE-60
14:59:42 [trackbot]
Sorry, ht, I don't understand 'trackbot, ISSUE-60'. Please refer to http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc for help
14:59:49 [ht]
trackbot, ISSUE 60
14:59:49 [trackbot]
Sorry, ht, I don't understand 'trackbot, ISSUE 60'. Please refer to http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc for help
15:00:24 [ht]
AM: speaks to http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2011/02/ClientSideStorage.pdf
15:00:26 [masinter]
masinter has joined #tagmem
15:00:47 [ht]
AM: I need guidance on how to take this forward
15:02:29 [masinter]
This underlying architectural issue relates to "Powerful Web Apps", "Data and Service Integration" and "Web of Trust": web applications are more powerful if different applications can share. But they have to do it in a secure way that also maintains user privacy.
15:03:07 [ht]
AM: The fundamental issue is how to manage the inevitable intrusion of the Privacy/Security issue into any discussion of client-side storage:
15:03:11 [timbl]
q+
15:03:27 [ht]
AM: 1) Ignore it, and just do the storage thing;
15:03:44 [ht]
AM: 2) Try to do the integration.
15:03:47 [noah]
q?
15:03:47 [jar]
q?
15:03:47 [masinter]
topic?
15:04:41 [ht]
AM: The answer is different depending on whether we see the deliverable here as stand-alone, or as part of a larger document where Security is being taken care of
15:04:57 [timbl]
q+ to point out that there is now a large and increasing amount of technology making cookies the tip of the iceberg, and that the issue of which websites can acecss what cookies generalzies to which websites, pcrincipals, and code modules,
15:05:00 [noah]
ack next
15:05:01 [Zakim]
timbl, you wanted to point out that there is now a large and increasing amount of technology making cookies the tip of the iceberg, and that the issue of which websites can acecss
15:05:06 [Zakim]
... what cookies generalzies to which websites, pcrincipals, and code modules,
15:05:24 [jar]
q+ jar to mumble about multiple requirements -> solution with multiple facets
15:05:53 [ht]
TBL: The document talks mostly about cookies, but there are a large number of new technologies, e.g. sqllib, which are at least as important going forward
15:06:13 [masinter]
Security sections could move to https://wiki.tools.ietf.org/wg/websec/charters
15:06:29 [ht]
TBL: And as you talk about privacy in that context, it becomes a question about what 'agent' (software, site, person) can get access to what
15:06:56 [ht]
AM: You're going beyond data
15:07:04 [masinter]
based on http://w2spconf.com/2010/papers/p11.pdf
15:07:53 [masinter]
q?
15:07:55 [masinter]
q+
15:08:03 [ht]
TBL: No, just data raises these issues, say I have an rdf store on my phone, and an app written by an airline is running in a container from a third party and wants access to that data. . .
15:08:21 [noah]
q+ to briefly respond to Tim
15:08:37 [ht]
... At worst we end up all having to have our own copies of all the privacy-implicated software, to ensure our data doesn't get away
15:08:57 [noah]
ack next
15:08:58 [Zakim]
jar, you wanted to mumble about multiple requirements -> solution with multiple facets
15:09:15 [ht]
TBL: So this discussion has to be forward-looking to address not just what's here now, but what's coming soon
15:09:55 [masinter]
"In 2011, W3C expects to charter a Web Application Security Working Group for work on specific technologies to enable more robust and secure Web Applications." from http://www.w3.org/2011/01/w3c2011
15:10:01 [ht]
JAR: Normal engineering practice should be followed, to look first at the requirements, without jumping to soon to the technology (e.g. cookies)
15:10:24 [ht]
... You started out with "need....", which are requirements, and then jump to security -- but that's a requirement too
15:11:05 [ht]
JAR: It's like building a LISP interpreter, if you leave memory management to the end, you end up with a buggy implementation
15:11:08 [masinter]
q?
15:11:17 [ht]
AM: Right, so you're saying add security as a requirement, early
15:11:31 [ht]
JAR: Only then do you look at solutions
15:11:40 [noah]
ack next
15:11:48 [ht]
... and try to match requirements to aspects of solutions
15:12:10 [masinter]
under "Privacy and Security"
15:12:43 [ht]
LM: There is a commitment at W3C level to charter a Privacy and Security Wg
15:12:50 [noah]
Actually, the slide just said privacy, and I think that's what I heard him ask about. That's why I got confused when we kept talking about security.
15:13:15 [ht]
LM: And that group is a candidate recipient for this work
15:13:32 [ht]
AM: I thought it was a Privacy IG that was on the way
15:13:40 [ht]
... and that's not quite the same
15:14:41 [ht]
LM: W3C has commited to chartering an Web Applications Security WG
15:15:04 [ht]
... In JJ's document
15:15:22 [ht]
s/an Web/a Web/
15:15:29 [noah]
From: http://www.w3.org/2011/01/w3c2011
15:15:48 [noah]
In 2011, W3C expects to charter a Web Application Security Working Group for work on specific technologies to enable more robust and secure Web Applications.
15:15:53 [noah]
(public document)
15:15:54 [noah]
q?
15:15:57 [noah]
ack next
15:15:59 [Zakim]
noah, you wanted to briefly respond to Tim
15:16:04 [ht]
AM: So, yes, when that happens, feeding in to it makes sense
15:16:43 [ht]
NM: On the separate vs. together point (storage vs. Privacy&Security)
15:16:54 [ht]
... indeed per JAR sometimes it's dangerous to factor
15:17:01 [ht]
... but not sure that's true here
15:17:28 [ht]
NM: Suppose you did just focus on storage, w/o talking about P&S
15:17:36 [masinter]
"Client side state" doesn't really have anything to say unless there is some 'memory' or 'communication' of client side state
15:18:01 [ht]
NM: What would the Product page look like if you did that (thought experiment)?
15:18:19 [ht]
... If you can't even do that, we've learned something
15:18:54 [ht]
... And if you _can_, then we can look at the P&S factoring question as such
15:19:15 [masinter]
q+ to explore a different perspective -- there are multiple design patterns in use in the community, some are better than others for several reasons... which are better, how are they evaluated, and what are 'best practices'
15:19:27 [ht]
NM: Thinking about the Product page should be really helpful
15:19:41 [ht]
AM: I want to come back to the "one large document" question
15:19:50 [ht]
JAR: That's not what I said. . .
15:20:06 [ht]
NM: If we want to do a large document, it's a long way out
15:20:32 [ht]
... So even if we are aiming for a merged form, the work has to go ahead as if it were going to stand on its own
15:21:01 [ht]
LM: Different perspective -- we're not designing an implementation -- there are already a number of iimplemenrtations, and they differ
15:21:10 [noah]
q?
15:21:12 [noah]
ack next
15:21:13 [Zakim]
masinter, you wanted to explore a different perspective -- there are multiple design patterns in use in the community, some are better than others for several reasons... which are
15:21:15 [Zakim]
... better, how are they evaluated, and what are 'best practices'
15:21:19 [ht]
... they have different relevant properties to the requirements
15:21:23 [noah]
q+ to ask: what are the top 3 questions this finding will answer?
15:21:52 [ht]
LM: Here are seven different impls, here are their properties, here's why some address req't X, Y, Z better/worse than others
15:22:04 [ht]
s/impls,/design patterns/
15:22:32 [masinter]
"seven" plus or minus four
15:22:36 [ht]
s/iimplemenrtations/design patterns for C-S S/
15:23:11 [ht]
NM: Assuming this is a separate document, what are the top three questions it will answer for the community?
15:23:17 [ht]
AM: Give me three weeks
15:23:42 [ht]
NM: OK, let's suspend judgement on the long-term future of this work until we see your response
15:24:30 [masinter]
are there books or papers on web application design, that cover client side storage, use of cookies, local storage, etc?
15:24:30 [noah]
. ACTION: Ashok (with help from Noah) build product page for client storage finding, identifying top questions to be answered
15:24:33 [ht]
AM: We asked the WebApps guys who are writing these specs, where are your use cases?
15:24:44 [ht]
AM: And they didn't have much of a concrete reply
15:25:18 [ht]
[Scribe note: This was all re http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/issues/60]
15:26:26 [noah]
ACTION: Ashok (with help from Noah) build good product page for client storage finding, identifying top questions to be answered on client side storage Due: 2011-03-01
15:26:26 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-523 - (with help from Noah) build good product page for client storage finding, identifying top questions to be answered on client side storage Due: 2011-03-01 [on Ashok Malhotra - due 2011-02-17].
15:27:29 [ht]
[Break until 1045]
15:27:50 [Ashok]
Ashok has joined #tagmem
15:28:08 [Ashok]
rrsagent, pointer
15:28:08 [RRSAgent]
See http://www.w3.org/2011/02/10-tagmem-irc#T15-28-08
15:28:32 [Ashok]
rrsagent, make logs member visible
15:49:11 [ht]
[resume from break]
15:50:03 [ht]
Topic: Review of TAG activity
15:52:51 [ht]
NM: I've been reviewing the open actions, to try to abstract what the set of Products are in principle
15:53:01 [ht]
... So that we can create the ones that are missing
15:53:54 [ht]
NM: Quick scan of the Tracker Products: 2001/tag/group/track/products
15:55:40 [ht]
NM: Agreed that we are _not_ currently working on the Versioning Product
15:55:41 [noah]
ACTION: Noah close versioning product
15:55:41 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-524 - Close versioning product [on Noah Mendelsohn - due 2011-02-17].
15:56:14 [ht]
LM: Some of that work is going forward under other headings, e.g. the mime info work
15:57:21 [ht]
NM: What is this WebApp Access Control product?
15:57:25 [noah]
ACTION: Noah to check with John before closing http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/products/2 WebApps access control
15:57:25 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-525 - Check with John before closing http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/products/2 WebApps access control [on Noah Mendelsohn - due 2011-02-17].
15:57:26 [ht]
JR: Ask JK
15:58:49 [noah]
ACTION: Noah to do first draft product stuff for MIME and related core web mechanisms
15:58:49 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-526 - Do first draft product stuff for MIME and related core web mechanisms [on Noah Mendelsohn - due 2011-02-17].
16:06:57 [ht]
NM: We have a total of 45 open actions
16:10:49 [ht]
LM: I want to push Action 519 to be even bigger, on the relation of standards to operational requirements
16:11:14 [ht]
... Big ISPs come to IETF, not to W3C, so this is important wrt our presentation to the IAB
16:12:42 [noah]
ACTION: Noah to make sure we make progress on ACTION-519 and ACTION-517 in time to provide input to Prague IETF meeting, talk to be ready by mid-March
16:12:42 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-527 - Make sure we make progress on ACTION-519 and ACTION-517 in time to provide input to Prague IETF meeting, talk to be ready by mid-March [on Noah Mendelsohn - due 2011-02-17].
16:18:37 [ht]
NM: Diving in to Action-521, do we want to press forward with taking Disposition of Names in a Namespace to REC: 4 not sure, 2 against, 1 to push it to Core, 0 to do it
16:19:02 [ht]
NM: Remind NM to propose next steps and/or discussion on this
16:19:24 [masinter]
masinter has joined #tagmem
16:20:08 [ht]
NM: Relieved not to find too many "Oops, we've let this slip" responses or "Oops, there's a big iceberg under here"
16:21:41 [ht]
NM: Open for discussion, let's propose edits to the list of Products
16:21:52 [ht]
... Additions or deletions
16:22:11 [ht]
q+ to say Products don't exhaust our work
16:22:16 [jar]
q+ jar to take apart 'important'
16:22:39 [noah]
q_
16:22:40 [noah]
q-
16:22:42 [noah]
ack next
16:22:43 [Zakim]
ht, you wanted to say Products don't exhaust our work
16:22:51 [noah]
ack next
16:22:51 [masinter]
q+ to propose changing "HTML 5 review" to "HTML/CSS/etc. architecture"
16:22:52 [Zakim]
jar, you wanted to take apart 'important'
16:22:59 [noah]
ack next
16:23:00 [Zakim]
masinter, you wanted to propose changing "HTML 5 review" to "HTML/CSS/etc. architecture"
16:23:39 [ht]
LM: Change HTML 5 review to Open Web Platform Architecture
16:25:04 [ht]
LM: At the AC, the MS rep [name?] proposed a number of HTML5-related arch. issues
16:25:26 [ht]
... and I've gotten a list from Julian Reschke
16:25:38 [masinter]
and from several other people
16:25:42 [noah]
q?
16:25:59 [masinter]
s/the AC/the TPAC plenary/
16:27:11 [ht]
HST: Is Persistence a Product
16:27:47 [ht]
NM: Should we be doing that -- think about where this stands?
16:27:49 [DKA]
q+ to suggest a serious thing.
16:28:01 [masinter]
I'm looking at http://www.w3.org/2011/01/w3c2011
16:28:22 [ht]
LM: I don't think it has a real place wrt fundamental arch. issues
16:28:25 [noah]
q?
16:28:49 [masinter]
s/has a real place/is one of the top priorities/
16:29:01 [ht]
TBL: We have responsible for long-term issues, which no-one else will worry about
16:29:07 [ht]
s/have/are/
16:29:59 [ht]
s/wrt fundamental arch. issues/aligns with the guidance we're getting/
16:30:30 [ht]
NM: I read JJ's list as a "be sure to cover this", not "and nothing else"
16:30:49 [timbl]
q+ to to say we can also contribute to Jeff's list
16:32:28 [ht]
HST: We owe it to the people who raised the persistence question to work on it, and I think addressing why people don't trust 'http:' URIs is a fundamental arch. question.
16:32:43 [ht]
NM: Goals and success criteria
16:33:30 [noah]
HT: We have two draft documents in different stages: 1) my somewhat stale but valuable Dirk and Nadia design a naming scheme and 2) Jonathan's checklist document
16:33:52 [noah]
HT: I think each of those speak to a different community, and suggest different deliverables directed at different goals.
16:34:10 [masinter]
the reason why i'm reluctant to put this is a priority is that i'm afraid i have some real disagreements about the nature of the problem and the directions to address them.
16:34:15 [noah]
HT: Potential goal #1: address the architectural origins of the vulnerability of Web names as
16:34:58 [plinss]
s/names as/names./
16:35:03 [noah]
HT: Potential goal #2: identify best practices for the use of Web names in contexts where some form of persistence is goal.
16:36:31 [timbl]
q+ to wonder about a goal in which social insititions are changed in order to acheive persistence.
16:37:07 [noah]
ack next
16:37:09 [Zakim]
DKA, you wanted to suggest a serious thing.
16:37:56 [noah]
ACTION: Henry to create and get consensus on a product page and tracker product page for persistence of names Due: 2011-03-01
16:37:56 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-528 - Create and get consensus on a product page and tracker product page for persistence of names Due: 2011-03-01 [on Henry S. Thompson - due 2011-02-17].
16:38:12 [timbl]
due date: 3011-01-01 -- test that the action URI still works
16:38:12 [noah]
ACTION-528 Due 2011-03-01
16:38:12 [trackbot]
ACTION-528 Create and get consensus on a product page and tracker product page for persistence of names Due: 2011-03-01 due date now 2011-03-01
16:38:37 [DKA]
ack me
16:39:07 [masinter]
"persistence" requires both technical and social institutions to coordinate. We should look at successful social institutions and those in trouble.
16:39:20 [ht]
DKA: Offline web: widgets, app cache, cf. JJ's Web Apps and mobile devices bullet
16:39:38 [masinter]
http://www.archive.org/post/337580/internet-archive-needs-your-help
16:39:57 [ht]
DKA: There is a workshop being organized by Matt Womer in this area
16:40:09 [ht]
NM: This overlaps with C-S S
16:40:20 [ht]
DKA: This is about packaging
16:40:34 [ht]
... not (just) storage
16:40:53 [ht]
NM: Should we discuss making this a product?
16:40:58 [ht]
NM: OK, will do
16:42:02 [noah]
ACTION: Noah to schedule telcon discussion of a potential TAG product relating to offline applications and packaged Web
16:42:02 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-529 - Schedule telcon discussion of a potential TAG product relating to offline applications and packaged Web [on Noah Mendelsohn - due 2011-02-17].
16:42:04 [ht]
NM: All of mobile?
16:42:17 [ht]
DKA: No, mobile and the offline web -- packaging the web
16:43:01 [Ashok]
Interacts with Client-Side Storage
16:43:43 [ht]
JAR: Saying something is important is not very useful, unless someone is signed up for it
16:44:46 [ht]
... Maybe we should do a gap analysis: a matrix where we have supply-side -- what would each member be inclined to do, left to themselves, vs. demand-side: what have JJ and/or our community asked us to do
16:44:55 [ht]
... and we look for the blank spaces
16:45:08 [masinter]
q+ to talk about 'underlying architecture' as possibly a higher TAG priority than Jeff's list, which applies to W3C as a whole
16:45:11 [ht]
JAR: And we don't yet have enough information yet to actually build that matrix
16:45:33 [ht]
NM: That's a goal for us, yes
16:46:00 [masinter]
alignment between W3C working groups, and with IETF and with previous specs and .... is after all what TAG was originally chartered for
16:46:05 [ht]
zakim, close the queue
16:46:05 [Zakim]
ok, ht, the speaker queue is closed
16:46:19 [masinter]
q?
16:46:24 [masinter]
ack masinter
16:46:24 [Zakim]
masinter, you wanted to talk about 'underlying architecture' as possibly a higher TAG priority than Jeff's list, which applies to W3C as a whole
16:46:24 [ht]
q- to
16:46:45 [noah]
ack next
16:46:47 [Zakim]
timbl, you wanted to wonder about a goal in which social insititions are changed in order to acheive persistence.
16:47:18 [noah]
topic: IETF Meeting in Prague
16:47:24 [noah]
Henry and Larry will be there.
16:47:27 [noah]
AM: Talk or panel.
16:47:48 [noah]
LM: See ACTION-500. There is a panel, with representation from lots of the IETF community. Panel description is copied in the action.
16:47:57 [ht]
trackbot, action-500
16:47:57 [trackbot]
Sorry, ht, I don't understand 'trackbot, action-500'. Please refer to http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc for help
16:48:00 [ht]
trackbot, action-500?
16:48:00 [trackbot]
Sorry, ht, I don't understand 'trackbot, action-500?'. Please refer to http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc for help
16:48:02 [noah]
LM: Not yet determined between Henry and me who will actually be on the panel.
16:48:08 [noah]
ACTION-500?
16:48:08 [trackbot]
ACTION-500 -- Larry Masinter to coordinate about TAG participation in IETF/IAB panel at March 2011 IETF -- due 2011-02-15 -- OPEN
16:48:08 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/500
16:48:22 [noah]
AM: You probably only get 15 mins?
16:48:27 [noah]
LM: At most, could be 10.
16:48:44 [noah]
LM: We should use this mainly to "show the flag", indicate where major points of interest are, etc.
16:48:58 [noah]
LM: They've written what they think the issue is for them.
16:49:20 [noah]
HT: It's in some sense better we don't have a longer slot, which would lead to us reading our laundry list.
16:49:41 [noah]
HT: The appropriate question we need to think of here today is, what do we want to project about the TAG itself?
16:49:50 [noah]
q+ to ask about TAG vs. W3C
16:49:56 [noah]
zakim, open the queue
16:49:56 [Zakim]
ok, noah, the speaker queue is open
16:49:58 [noah]
q+ to ask about TAG vs. W3C
16:50:39 [noah]
LM: We are in the process of establishing our priorities based on what the community needs from us. Some people at the IETF meeting are likely to be, unfortunately, not W3C members.
16:51:37 [noah]
NM: Um, our TAG community is the Web and Internet community, not just the W3C.
16:51:44 [noah]
LM: Ooops, you're right, that's what I meant.
16:52:06 [noah]
NM: We listen to everyone, on www-tag, by inviting people to join meetings and calls, etc.
16:52:24 [noah]
HT: The IETF is appealingly a crypto-anarchist community with a long history.
16:52:49 [noah]
HT: They are phenomenally successfully.
16:54:49 [noah]
HT: Larry and I should probably send email to www-tag asking for input, then get telcon time.
16:55:02 [noah]
LM: Henry, hows about you draft a talk for review, with my help?
16:55:16 [noah]
HT: I'll produce say, 5 slides, for review on call in two weeks.
16:55:22 [masinter]
what is the tag, waht the tag works on, what things are we thinking about in W3C, what things are we thinking about in the TAG in particular
16:56:03 [noah]
ACTION: Henry to draft slides for IETF meeting, with help from Larry Due 2011-02-22
16:56:03 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-530 - Draft slides for IETF meeting, with help from Larry Due 2011-02-22 [on Henry S. Thompson - due 2011-02-17].
16:56:39 [ht]
NM: Suspended for lunch
16:56:54 [ht]
rrsagent, make logs public-visible
16:57:00 [ht]
rrsagent, draft minutes
16:57:00 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/02/10-tagmem-minutes.html ht
17:09:35 [timbl]
timbl has joined #tagmem
17:36:47 [ht]
ht has joined #tagmem
17:41:35 [timbl_]
timbl_ has joined #tagmem
18:04:14 [timbl]
scribenick: timbl
18:04:19 [timbl]
q?
18:04:46 [timbl]
Phlippe Le H├ęgaret joins the meeting
18:05:09 [timbl]
Discussion of action items
18:05:35 [timbl]
NM: LArry asked my to add a link to RFC5226 to th agenda.
18:06:00 [noah]
http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5226
18:06:21 [plh]
plh has joined #tagmem
18:06:39 [noah]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2011Feb/0004.html
18:06:40 [timbl]
DQA: I note IE9 has Geolocation.
18:06:41 [masinter]
there was another link http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-iab-extension-recs
18:06:56 [timbl]
Larry:
18:06:59 [timbl]
re ACTION5111
18:07:10 [timbl]
... we have havd a lot of discussion of registries
18:07:22 [timbl]
.. perhaps as reaction to IANA, feeling that regisries were
18:07:36 [timbl]
... a bottleneck in the system, that we should use URIs to be decentralized.
18:07:53 [noah]
BTW: I can't see the queue when I'm projecting, so for now we won't use it.
18:07:54 [timbl]
... Still, there are protocols, protocol and langauge elements whre we don't use URIs.
18:08:13 [timbl]
... But, if it isn't a URI, then how do you find out what it means?
18:08:26 [plh]
--> http://www.w3.org/2005/04/xpointer-schemes/ XPointer Registry
18:08:43 [timbl]
... DOes IANA still mange it? But IANA is unrespionsive and cumbersome? Should we se a wiki page, [html wg suggest]
18:09:06 [timbl]
... I was trying to frame the issue with MIME type registries.
18:09:13 [plh]
--> http://www.w3.org/2002/06/registering-mediatype.html Register an Internet Media Type for a W3C Spec
18:09:23 [timbl]
... Many issues are around what the mime type means when it eveolves, having to do with versioning.
18:09:54 [timbl]
.... There ar technical and social issues. Power: who controls the resgisteryt? Who controls what properteis things hsould have registered?
18:10:07 [timbl]
... People disagree on the contents oo f the registry
18:10:39 [timbl]
... I pointed to RFC2434, now RFC52226 .
18:10:40 [timbl]
.
18:10:41 [masinter]
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-iab-extension-recs
18:11:08 [timbl]
... I also saw a goid IAN document in progress on extensability from the point of view of protocl design, in which registries are one way.
18:11:17 [timbl]
s/oid/ood/
18:11:31 [timbl]
PLH: I pasted in various links, incluidng to the XPointer registry.
18:11:44 [timbl]
... This registry is hosted by W3C.
18:12:22 [masinter]
css prefix organization names?
18:12:34 [timbl]
HT: The spec didn't have unqualified names, but people companined that getting URIs in to bind every name was ridiculous. Please let us defined some short names whcih we can own, and we did, and so we have a URI-based registry mechanism.
18:12:51 [plh]
http://www.w3.org/2005/04/xpointer-schemes/range
18:12:56 [timbl]
.... the way you tell what short names mean or are available is you concatenate with a URI.
18:13:14 [timbl]
PLH: This was very lightweight, lighteight review process too.
18:13:29 [timbl]
... We demand a link to a spec but no other review.
18:13:50 [timbl]
HT: Just a way of mapoping short names into URI space on a firec come,first served basis.
18:14:10 [timbl]
LM: What does CSS do with vendor prefixes?
18:14:26 [timbl]
Peter: Nothing formal -- we have recently started keeping a list.
18:14:54 [noah]
NM: Is it just a convention?
18:15:06 [timbl]
... You register just the -moz- not the -moz-* names.
18:15:27 [noah]
PL: No, more than that. The spec requires a syntactic convention for use of anything that is either not in the spec, or not advanced to a certain point in the spec development.
18:15:53 [noah]
TBL: Do you standardize thinks like -*-roundedcorner?
18:15:57 [noah]
PL: No, just -*-
18:16:29 [timbl]
TBL: As a CSS user, having many diff anmes was a pain for Roiunded Corners.
18:16:42 [timbl]
Peter: That was necessary as the diff vendors did it differently.
18:17:13 [timbl]
Larry: We were having registries, so we are not really folowing out URI architectuer. Can IANA be fixed? S the problem IANA?
18:17:26 [timbl]
... People say the problem is not IANA but tarcking what IANA is up do.
18:17:27 [plh]
--> http://dev.w3.org/html5/status/issue-status.html#ISSUE-027 HTML ISSUE 27
18:17:47 [timbl]
TbL: For example, the text/n3 mime type is still pending
18:17:51 [timbl]
... after years
18:18:24 [timbl]
Larry: if you look at the docs establishing how IANA works, they don't determienthe process ... that is established each registry anew.
18:18:52 [timbl]
I refined teh URI scheme ergistry process, there is still unhappiness with it.
18:19:07 [timbl]
... I would hope for WC to reivent this wheel and rediscover all the problems
18:19:19 [noah]
s/hope for/hate for/
18:19:29 [timbl]
PLH: THis is related to infmaous HTML WG Issue 27 (see link above)
18:19:39 [timbl]
... (all HTML WG issues are infamous)
18:19:45 [noah]
s/infmaous/infamous/
18:20:17 [masinter]
proposal W3C run rel: http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/RelRegistryAtTheW3C
18:20:20 [noah]
s/determienthe/determine the/
18:20:25 [timbl]
PLH: One proposal is to have a registry at W3C
18:20:50 [masinter]
http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5988
18:21:32 [timbl]
... Mark Nottingham has done work on a IANA registry. Ian Hixon tested it and declared that it was not working.
18:21:45 [timbl]
... there is a counterproposal whcih just uses a wiki page.
18:21:55 [timbl]
... This was escalated to the WG as issue 27.
18:22:17 [noah]
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/27
18:22:26 [noah]
ISSUE 27: @rel value ownership, registry consideration
18:22:38 [timbl]
Larry: We should discuss whether and why and how W3C runs registries -- it should not be decided just by a local WG, as it is a long term commitment, and much more than the design of a technical spec.
18:23:02 [timbl]
PLH: Without requiremets, you can't
18:23:12 [masinter]
image/svg+xml
18:23:19 [timbl]
PLH: It took years to get image/svg+xml took years to get registerd.
18:23:28 [timbl]
... Evne though it was in use for years.
18:23:41 [plh]
--> http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ietf-announce/current/msg08275.html Approval of image/svg+xml Media Type
18:24:15 [plh]
q?
18:24:26 [noah]
q-
18:24:30 [timbl]
Larry: People brought this up as a poster child fo why it didbn;'t work ... but they didn't in fct respond to IANA's commenbst about what was missing from the application
18:24:34 [timbl]
q+
18:24:46 [noah]
ack next
18:25:21 [masinter]
there's also been a long recent discussion about +json and +zip; and +xml is an issue
18:25:33 [noah]
TBL: We had a story with text/n3+rdf type where we used the W3C/IETF liaison meeting to track. Per that discussion we removed the +rdf.
18:25:59 [noah]
TBL: They said we would have to produce a stable document, which we did some years ago, so for me text/n3 is another poster child for the problems.
18:26:18 [plh]
--> http://www.w3.org/TeamSubmission/n3/ N3
18:26:48 [noah]
TBL: The confusion is compounded because there are people out there using the now deprecated +rdf form, but there's nothing to point to saying, "here's what you should do".
18:26:53 [jar]
q+ jar to mention journals e.g. PLoS One
18:27:10 [masinter]
Maybe W3C should have an IANA shepherd who knows how to work IANA and helps people through the process, that would be better than running W3C registry..
18:27:18 [plh]
for n3, I'm probably the bottleneck
18:27:27 [noah]
TBL: There's also no tracker for the application review process for mime types. You can't tell where things are in the process, what the problems are, or even that there is a registration pending.
18:27:49 [noah]
TBL: So, one suggestion is that we should not only run a registry at W3C, but that we should run a tracker.
18:27:56 [noah]
LM: You could run a tracker for IANA
18:28:23 [timbl]
LM: The ITEF tools team has been building tools for IANA but not that one yet.
18:28:30 [noah]
LM: The IETF the tools team has built tools for many groups, and perhaps has just not gotten to IANA
18:28:46 [timbl]
PLH: The technical issues we ahve to resolev, and they can tajke years
18:29:14 [timbl]
... Teh chaset attribute, and then conte-encoding, the dscussions exhausted the energy of the applicants.
18:29:15 [timbl]
q+
18:29:50 [timbl]
Larry: My experience has been very posistive: you tell the truth you get approval. With text/html Dan Connolly and I updated it... I also did application/pdf.
18:29:55 [plh]
q+
18:30:37 [timbl]
... I was involved gopher's mime types
18:31:25 [timbl]
... What can take years has been miscommunication.
18:32:32 [plh]
--> http://www.imc.org/ietf-xml-mime/mail-archive/msg00981.html MIME Type Review Request: image/svg+xml November 2044
18:32:33 [noah]
TBL: I sypmathize with the requirements they have for, e.g. MIME registry, but I've found that the HTML experience of having two specs (I.e. the HTML spec plus the media type registration), was not good. We've now fixed that by ensuring that the spec shall pass muster as a registration document, and IANA will please accept that.
18:32:37 [plh]
s/2044/2004/
18:32:46 [noah]
TBL: That now is the case, which is good.
18:33:21 [noah]
TBL: Therefore, my view is that the right path for SVG would have been that all the stuff like charset should have been caught and fixed as part of the W3C CR process reviews.
18:33:29 [plh]
q?
18:33:34 [noah]
ack next
18:33:35 [Zakim]
jar, you wanted to mention journals e.g. PLoS One
18:33:36 [timbl]
q-
18:33:53 [timbl]
jar: This is not happenin in a vacuum -- there ahve been ergistries before IANA
18:34:06 [timbl]
... It isn't jsyt who runs t, it is wjhat properties it has:
18:34:10 [noah]
s/ahve/have/
18:34:21 [noah]
s/ergistries/registries/
18:34:39 [timbl]
... Wjhat criteria fo acceptabnce, professionalizm of management, what tracking tec,... the publication of a scholarly journal is a analogous process, foo example.
18:35:49 [plh]
s/jsyt/just/
18:35:56 [plh]
s/wjhat/what/
18:36:26 [timbl]
LarryL: We use registries for extensibility, where the spec points to a given specific registry, an dth standard defined the criterial for the registry, so that the standard will still work. If soemoen tries to register a term which violated the design, then it is rejected.
18:37:21 [masinter]
maybe this is an important criteria for registries -- that the protocol design shouldn't rely on the registrar review to maintain invariants
18:38:18 [ht]
q+ to ask what _is_ the problem at hand
18:38:59 [timbl]
Tim: Example -- HTTP header s always as RFC822 headers have a comma -as an equivalent to a new header lne - the cokie header spec in error used it differently asnd it was not caught.
18:39:27 [timbl]
Larry: The spec puts an onuns on the good peopel running the resitry to make sure that good things happen.
18:39:51 [noah]
LM: In some cases in the past, the spec did not tightly bound what extensions could do, and we relied on the registrar to enforce good practice.
18:39:52 [noah]
Hmm. I'm sure Larry is right about the history, but it seems preferable to me that the spec >should< say what extension points can do, and the the registrar merely enforce that
18:40:04 [noah]
ack next
18:40:19 [timbl]
PLH: We have a media type registry at W3C
18:40:42 [masinter]
http://www.w3.org/2002/06/registering-mediatype.html Register an Internet Media Type for a W3C Spec
18:41:16 [timbl]
plh: Since M Duetsr left w3t, I have been maintainin the big table at the bottom
18:41:22 [timbl]
... This table has been there for 8 years
18:42:11 [timbl]
... The old way of registering a media type is to just write an RFC, but a few yeas aho, with Martin's help, IETF lallows other organization's specs to be used in the IANA oregistration.
18:42:14 [plh]
--> http://www.w3.org/2002/06/registering-mediatype.html#RegStatus Status of Internet Media type registrations
18:43:06 [noah]
TBL: Is N3 in the table?
18:43:15 [noah]
PHL: No, my fault. Kick me.
18:43:19 [noah]
TBL: Will do.
18:43:24 [timbl]
PLH: I accept total repsonsability for making sure that it is
18:43:51 [timbl]
... Many of these media tyeps are here but not un the IANA registry.
18:44:24 [timbl]
Larry: How amny of these have been requested?
18:44:58 [timbl]
PLH: If you look at the "Plans" column.
18:45:32 [timbl]
I suggest that the states be defined in an ontolgyt
18:45:55 [timbl]
PLH: "Need ietf types review" means that W3C has yet to ask for that review.
18:46:46 [timbl]
[discussion fo W3C process]
18:47:04 [timbl]
PLH: We have thsioe steps to help working groups go through those processe.
18:47:23 [timbl]
... We can end up with things which just hang there
18:47:31 [noah]
q?
18:47:35 [noah]
ack next
18:47:36 [Zakim]
ht, you wanted to ask what _is_ the problem at hand
18:47:52 [timbl]
HT: What is the problem we are trying to fix now?
18:48:20 [timbl]
PLH: The problem with SVG was gteting is registered in 2010 after asking in 2004, with it being used in between.
18:48:31 [noah]
PLH: For me the problem is that we requested an SVG media type in 2004, that only got formal approval in 2010, and it was used without registration for 6 years.
18:48:47 [noah]
HT: OK, stipulate a problem with >that< registry, the TAG issue appears to be about issues in general.
18:49:35 [timbl]
HT: Sounds like a bug in that registry -- lets suggest that they implement a tracker. That could be fixed. Automating the regisry wouldn't nevessarily help that. The Xpointer scheme registry has a rule that the URI works and tells you the status the oment you have requested it.
18:50:13 [timbl]
Larry: It would be nice to give IANA a heads up before the request -- and intent to register. you coudl post that they intend to register it.
18:50:25 [noah]
q?
18:50:28 [timbl]
Tim: propose that hte IANA system shoudlb surface all the info in PLH's table
18:50:37 [masinter]
http://www.w3.org/2002/06/registering-mediatype.html
18:51:12 [masinter]
but if OASIS and ISO and other organizations want to register values, shouldn't they also be visible to W3C members?
18:51:31 [ht]
s/oment you have/moment you have requested, but that's a management decision, not a technical one/
18:51:35 [timbl]
q= to mention ontologies and schemas which we discussed before
18:52:40 [timbl]
LArry: There is a place fro lightweight registries - -- ege MIME types many orgs can contribute to.
18:53:00 [timbl]
q+
18:53:28 [timbl]
Larry: W3C should try to fix IANA befroe running around it.
18:54:16 [timbl]
... We should volunteer to help them, nd find a good way to imtegrate the web architecture of the registry with the Internet Architecture people.
18:55:09 [timbl]
... Specificaly tas technical details, here are issues about the MIME types conflicting with the sniffing documents.
18:55:18 [plh]
q+
18:55:54 [timbl]
Noah: Do we want any more work on this?
18:56:23 [timbl]
Larry: PLH is on the front line, who is being asked to run registries. As the TAG we can help out with arch issues.
18:56:39 [timbl]
PLH: The immediate issue is issue 27, which is related to rel=""
18:56:52 [noah]
Noah: to clarify, I was asking whether we needed to schedule or track work thats
18:56:58 [noah]
that's beyond what we're already doing
18:57:06 [timbl]
... The enxt step if dor counter proposals in the HTML WG.
18:57:07 [noah]
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/27
18:57:31 [noah]
PLH: Potentially, the TAG might have a position to offer to the HTML WG
18:57:49 [noah]
TBL: I'm not sure I'm hearing anyone around the table complain about anything.
18:57:52 [timbl]
JAR: There are RFCs which point t the IANA registries.
18:58:08 [timbl]
q?
18:58:10 [masinter]
http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5988
18:58:13 [noah]
ack next
18:58:19 [noah]
JAR: We don't want two registries.
18:58:20 [plh]
q-
18:58:43 [noah]
TBL: Right, not two registries, and we want a good relationship with IANA. We do need something that will produce RDF.
18:59:00 [noah]
JAR: Um, that can be a tarpit. I've already tried to convince IETF on that.
19:00:16 [noah]
TBL: There are, e.g. ontologies that list each of the HTML headers. People are producing ontologies that are 1:1 with the IANA registries. What's crucial is to deal in URIs that you can dereference to find out what you've got.
19:00:57 [noah]
TBL: IANA spent a long time working in plain text not HTML, a long time using ftp vs. http, they've slowly moved. I fear we might be talking a long time to make the move on conneg that returns RDF.
19:00:58 [masinter]
I think people ascribe to "IANA" things that are really within their own control
19:01:24 [jar]
well, not on exactly that, but on something closely related having to do with link relations and 200 status
19:01:24 [plh]
--> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/RelRegistryAtTheW3C#Positive_Effects Effects of a registry at W3C
19:01:28 [plh]
q+
19:01:40 [masinter]
there's no reason why W3C can't run a service for doing something with IANA registered terms, for example, by adding to the registry a set of "registered value retrieval services"
19:01:49 [noah]
TBL: Meanwhile, there are cases where you want to pick up information etc. about a new media type dynamically, while browsing.
19:02:04 [noah]
NM: Trust issues aside, you could even dynamically pick up handlers, e.g. to render a new image type.
19:02:14 [noah]
TBL: Indeed, a very interesting rathole, but not now.
19:02:20 [masinter]
q+ to talk about getting a document on 'registry requirements and operations' that talks also about the scalability issues
19:02:39 [noah]
ack next
19:03:09 [timbl]
The relationship between a MIME type and a typical file extension si important fr dsecurity -- you must not store a fle in a file system so that it ooks as though it has a fifferent MIME type, as taht is a security hole.
19:03:43 [noah]
ACTION-511?
19:03:43 [trackbot]
ACTION-511 -- Larry Masinter to send email framing TAG work on registries -- due 2011-01-20 -- PENDINGREVIEW
19:03:43 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/511
19:03:46 [timbl]
PLH: Henry Sivonen suggets a very lightweight system for MIME types, with no real review.
19:04:09 [timbl]
Larry: I think i hear enough technical and architectural issues and I am thinking of wroting a finding about it.
19:04:15 [plh]
a/with no real review/similar to the XPointer registry/
19:04:18 [noah]
. ACTION: Larry to write draft finding on architectural good practice relating to registries
19:04:26 [plh]
s/for MIME types/for re values/
19:04:37 [noah]
. ACTION: Larry to write draft document on architectural good practice relating to registries
19:05:01 [noah]
s/good/issues and good/
19:05:04 [timbl]
.. Larry: I would like to write about arch. issues and god practices.
19:05:30 [noah]
ACTION: Larry to write draft document on architectural good practice relating to registries Due 2011-04-19
19:05:30 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-531 - Write draft document on architectural good practice relating to registries Due 2011-04-19 [on Larry Masinter - due 2011-02-17].
19:07:30 [timbl]
----------------------------------------------
19:07:49 [timbl]
topic: Issue Tracking
19:08:11 [timbl]
NM: What does "open" mean of an issue?
19:08:50 [timbl]
... For those we are not working on actively , we shopuld categorize them.
19:08:53 [plh]
plh has left #tagmem
19:09:35 [timbl]
... We shoul close the ones whcih have been overtaken by events.
19:10:56 [noah]
http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/issues/7
19:11:04 [timbl]
NM: re Issue-7
19:11:04 [noah]
ISSUE-7: (1) GET should be encouraged, not deprecated, in XForms(2) How to handle safe queries (New POST-like method?GET plus a body?)
19:11:04 [trackbot]
ISSUE-7 (1) GET should be encouraged, not deprecated, in XForms(2) How to handle safe queries (New POST-like method?GET plus a body?) notes added
19:11:10 [timbl]
Is this still relevant?
19:11:32 [timbl]
Larry PING atributes ping a server to show you took a link
19:11:49 [timbl]
Larry: They are in the WHATWH spec still.
19:12:18 [timbl]
... but not in the W3C spec.
19:12:24 [noah]
LM: We should worry about the W3C spec.
19:12:29 [timbl]
Larry: This battle has been fought.
19:12:37 [masinter]
s/They are/It might be/
19:12:43 [masinter]
s/WHATWH/WHATWG/
19:13:00 [noah]
NM: Disagree, at least in principal. If any organization is promoting widespread use of something we consider inappropriate, that's potentially of concern to the TAG.
19:13:06 [noah]
TBL: Yes, but we have to pick our battles.
19:13:13 [noah]
HT: What about the original XForms issue.
19:13:19 [timbl]
HT: If XForms actually using GET when it should? Iand thsoe who use it, use POST not GET, and that is how XForms archietcture is designed to work.
19:13:33 [timbl]
... I didn't realzie there is a tension there.
19:13:42 [masinter]
I defined MIME type multipart/form-data in http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc2388.html
19:13:51 [timbl]
... But XForms uses POST just in order o have an XML body.
19:14:44 [timbl]
Larry: Lets close this without predjudice.
19:15:03 [noah]
TBL: Let's close it without prejudice
19:15:08 [noah]
NM: Fine with me
19:15:35 [timbl]
TrackBot, Close ISSUE-7
19:15:35 [trackbot]
ISSUE-7 (1) GET should be encouraged, not deprecated, in XForms(2) How to handle safe queries (New POST-like method?GET plus a body?) closed
19:15:58 [noah]
RESOLUTION: We will (re)close ISSUE-7, without prejudice with respect to HTML ping being good/bad
19:16:05 [noah]
close ISSUE-7
19:16:05 [trackbot]
ISSUE-7 (1) GET should be encouraged, not deprecated, in XForms(2) How to handle safe queries (New POST-like method?GET plus a body?) closed
19:16:37 [timbl]
-----
19:16:41 [noah]
http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/issues/20
19:16:44 [timbl]
Issue-20:
19:16:44 [trackbot]
ISSUE-20 What should specifications say about error handling? notes added
19:16:46 [noah]
ISSUE-20: What should specifications say about error handling?
19:16:46 [trackbot]
ISSUE-20 What should specifications say about error handling? notes added
19:17:17 [timbl]
HT: If this is being pursued it would be in the XML HTML TF
19:17:28 [noah]
Last status change was: connecting with "HTML 5 review" product a la http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2009/11/02-agenda
19:17:31 [timbl]
HT: Propsoe this has been overtaken by ovents.
19:17:39 [noah]
HT: I think this is overtaken or subsumed wrt/HTML.
19:17:50 [noah]
LM: Those are specific instances, but there's a broader concern here.
19:18:02 [timbl]
Larry: Thsoe are specific instances -- we have though a general st of conservative/liberal, error handling etc set fo concerns here.
19:18:26 [timbl]
Larry: Like, if you dictatte whta happens exactly with every error, are they still errors?
19:18:49 [timbl]
HT: On a cslae of 1..10, that concern is for me a 2
19:19:10 [timbl]
... in terms of its importance to the TAG.
19:19:24 [noah]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2003Dec/0044
19:20:04 [timbl]
Noah: Look at the history. We closed in in 2003 - Chris L in 2003 -- the TAG closed it in 2003
19:20:24 [timbl]
Noah: In 2008, on Dec 9, we re-opened it specifically about HTML5 Tag Soup.
19:20:36 [timbl]
... So HT's commet does indeed carry they day.
19:21:02 [timbl]
Tim: Suggest open, work hapeniung in XML HTML task force.
19:21:08 [timbl]
q+
19:22:02 [masinter]
mark it as "PENDING REVIEW"?
19:24:44 [ht]
It appears that @ping has been removed from HTML5[W3C], remains in HTML[WHATWG], but is not receiving much (any?) implementation http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2010Mar/0136.html
19:25:12 [noah]
Added note to ISSUE-7: Reviewed status of this at 10 Feb 2011 (8-10 Feb) F2F. Decided to leave this open for now, pending better understanding of where the XML/HTML Unification Task force is going with related issues.
19:25:21 [ht]
This is from HTML WG issue 1 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/1
19:25:23 [noah]
s/7/20/
19:25:38 [timbl]
----------
19:25:45 [timbl]
Noah: What aboutIssue-24
19:25:53 [timbl]
Larry: Lets leave it open
19:26:03 [timbl]
Noah: Issue-25 Deep Linking -- any actions
19:26:19 [timbl]
DKA: I made a very sketchy draft I made -- neeeds discussion
19:26:38 [timbl]
Noah: Stays open, yuo have an action for it.
19:26:48 [DKA]
http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/rightToLink.html
19:27:06 [timbl]
JAR: Issue 31 is was re-opened for UMP.
19:28:40 [timbl]
Noah: Issue-31 stays open. ACTIOn344 now is asscoited with it
19:29:12 [masinter]
issue-31?
19:29:12 [trackbot]
ISSUE-31 -- Should metadata (e.g., versioning information) be encoded in URIs? -- open
19:29:12 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/issues/31
19:31:56 [DKA]
http://www.w3.org/TR/2007/CR-WICD-20070718/
19:32:26 [timbl]
Noah: We close ss as no objections heard
19:32:31 [masinter]
issue-33?
19:32:31 [trackbot]
ISSUE-33 -- Composability for user interface-oriented XML namespaces -- open
19:32:31 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/issues/33
19:32:36 [noah]
RESOLUTION: Closing ISSUE-33 because CDF is gone, and any concerns about SVG, MathML, etc. in HTML are being tracked elsewhere.
19:32:41 [noah]
close ISSUE-33
19:32:41 [trackbot]
ISSUE-33 Composability for user interface-oriented XML namespaces closed
19:32:56 [timbl]
------------
19:33:00 [masinter]
issue-34?
19:33:00 [trackbot]
ISSUE-34 -- XML Transformation and composability (e.g., XSLT,XInclude, Encryption) -- open
19:33:00 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/issues/34
19:33:04 [timbl]
Issue-37?
19:33:04 [trackbot]
ISSUE-37 -- Definition of abstract components with namespace namesand frag ids -- open
19:33:04 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/issues/37
19:33:10 [masinter]
issue-39?
19:33:10 [trackbot]
ISSUE-39 -- Meaning of URIs in RDF documents -- open
19:33:10 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/issues/39
19:33:25 [noah]
"The community needs:
19:33:25 [noah]
A concise statement of the above architectural elements from different specs in one place, written in terms which the ontology community will understand, with pointers to the relevant specifications."
19:35:32 [timbl]
JAR: I wondered aboit opening an Issue for Harry Halpin's concerns. The problem with doing # or 303.
19:38:26 [timbl]
timbl: Let's not re-define issues udner the same number, taht sis fraud :-)
19:43:41 [noah]
ACTION: Jonathan to propose changes to status of issue-39 & issue-57, and perhaps opening new issue relating to H. Halpin's concerns about 200 responses Due: 2011-02-22
19:43:41 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-532 - Propose changes to status of issue-39 & issue-57, and perhaps opening new issue relating to H. Halpin's concerns about 200 responses Due: 2011-02-22 [on Jonathan Rees - due 2011-02-17].
19:45:23 [noah]
topic: assembling the minutes
19:45:26 [noah]
Day 1: Dan
19:45:30 [noah]
Day 2: Larry
19:45:44 [noah]
Day 3: Henry
19:45:48 [timbl]
BREAK
19:46:04 [timbl]
RBEKA
19:51:28 [DKA]
DKA has joined #tagmem
19:58:52 [Ashok]
Ashok has joined #tagmem
20:06:06 [timbl]
</break?
20:06:21 [timbl]
Noah: Now going through action items
20:06:36 [noah]
http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/open?sort=owner
20:06:46 [timbl]
Noah: Now going through action items
20:07:50 [masinter]
masinter has joined #tagmem
20:07:57 [timbl]
Action-505?
20:07:57 [trackbot]
ACTION-505 -- Daniel Appelquist to start a document wrt issue-25 -- due 2011-01-25 -- OPEN
20:07:57 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/505
20:08:12 [timbl]
DKA: Do we need a TAG finding here?
20:08:31 [timbl]
Noah: Take us to the point where we are ready for discussion.
20:09:07 [timbl]
DKA: I need someone to help me on this
20:09:16 [timbl]
JAR: We could talk.
20:09:48 [noah]
At Feb 2011 F2F, Jonathan agrees to give Dan a bit of help. Next goal is for them to take us to the point where we are ready for telcon discussion.
20:10:10 [noah]
ACTION-505 Due 2011-03-01
20:10:10 [trackbot]
ACTION-505 Start a document wrt issue-25 due date now 2011-03-01
20:10:22 [timbl]
Action-507?
20:10:22 [trackbot]
ACTION-507 -- Daniel Appelquist to with Noah to suggest next steps for TAG on privacy -- due 2011-03-01 -- OPEN
20:10:22 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/507
20:10:49 [timbl]
DKA: We didn't come up with a product page for the over-arching product on privacy.
20:11:24 [timbl]
Noah: The product page is to define work the TAG will do.
20:11:46 [timbl]
action cotinues.
20:11:46 [trackbot]
Sorry, bad ACTION syntax
20:12:33 [noah]
ACTION-460 Due 2011-03-08
20:12:33 [trackbot]
ACTION-460 Coordinate with IAB regarding next steps on privacy policy due date now 2011-03-08
20:13:02 [noah]
ACTION-480 Due 2011-03-01
20:13:02 [trackbot]
ACTION-480 Draft overview document framing Web applications as opposed to traditional Web of documents Due: 2010-11-01 due date now 2011-03-01
20:14:23 [noah]
ACTION-116?
20:14:23 [trackbot]
ACTION-116 -- Tim Berners-Lee to align the tabulator internal vocabulary with the vocabulary in the rules http://esw.w3.org/topic/AwwswDboothsRules, getting changes to either as needed. -- due 2011-02-11 -- OPEN
20:14:23 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/116
20:14:59 [noah]
JAR: Tim took this on himself, up to him whether to proceed
20:15:19 [noah]
TBL: OK, maybe this is overtaken by events
20:16:14 [noah]
Agreed on Feb 10 2011 at F2F Jonathan will move this to become an AWWSW action
20:16:41 [noah]
close ACTION-116
20:16:41 [trackbot]
ACTION-116 Align the tabulator internal vocabulary with the vocabulary in the rules http://esw.w3.org/topic/AwwswDboothsRules, getting changes to either as needed. closed
20:17:20 [noah]
ACTION-510?
20:17:20 [trackbot]
ACTION-510 -- Tim Berners-Lee to write a note conveying the TAG's concerns re: the microdata -> RDF URI mappings in the HTML5 microdata draft Due: 2011-01-20 -- due 2011-01-13 -- OPEN
20:17:20 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/510
20:18:59 [noah]
ACTION-510 Due 2011-03-09
20:19:00 [trackbot]
ACTION-510 Write a note conveying the TAG's concerns re: the microdata -> RDF URI mappings in the HTML5 microdata draft Due: 2011-01-20 due date now 2011-03-09
20:19:23 [noah]
John Kemp's action:
20:19:28 [noah]
ACTION-355?
20:19:29 [trackbot]
ACTION-355 -- John Kemp to explore the degree to which AWWW and associated findings tell the interaction story for Web Applications -- due 2011-02-02 -- OPEN
20:19:29 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/355
20:20:20 [noah]
ACTION-504?
20:20:20 [trackbot]
ACTION-504 -- John Kemp to make sure ACTION-355 links all significant writings including use cases. -- due 2011-01-27 -- OPEN
20:20:20 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/504
20:20:28 [noah]
note that 504 is linked to 355
20:20:48 [noah]
JK: Unclear whether anyone is interested.
20:23:30 [noah]
NM: We could do a product page. Could be one with resource assigned and dates, or could be a partial product page, with blanks for assigned resource and dates
20:23:57 [noah]
JK: Originally, the idea was to fill out a piece that is called out as missing in AWWW, I.e. to cover non-HTTP interactions.
20:24:10 [noah]
JK: I think that's where Noah's original succession
20:24:21 [noah]
JAR: At least, let's not let this get lost
20:25:00 [johnk]
johnk has joined #tagmem
20:25:09 [johnk]
s/succession/suggestion/
20:28:42 [timbl]
http://code.google.com/web/ajaxcrawling/docs/getting-started.html
20:30:07 [noah]
close ACTION-504
20:30:07 [trackbot]
ACTION-504 Make sure ACTION-355 links all significant writings including use cases. closed
20:30:17 [noah]
ACTION-416?
20:30:17 [trackbot]
ACTION-416 -- John Kemp to work on diagrams in "From Server-side to client-side" section of webapps material -- due 2011-03-01 -- OPEN
20:30:17 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/416
20:30:39 [noah]
JK: That's in Ashok's Web App document. I've made no recent progress.
20:31:05 [noah]
JK: What to do whether you will work on future Web applications document. Ashok now has control of the pertinent document.
20:31:35 [noah]
NM: Ashok, do you have an action associated with that.
20:33:17 [johnk]
http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2010/05/WebApps.html
20:34:21 [johnk]
ACTION-417?
20:34:21 [trackbot]
ACTION-417 -- John Kemp to frame section 7, security -- due 2011-01-25 -- CLOSED
20:34:21 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/417
20:34:26 [noah]
http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/480
20:36:20 [noah]
close ACTION-416
20:36:20 [trackbot]
ACTION-416 Work on diagrams in "From Server-side to client-side" section of webapps material closed
20:36:50 [noah]
ACTION-508?
20:36:50 [trackbot]
ACTION-508 -- Larry Masinter to draft proposed bug report regarding interpretation of fragid in HTML-based AJAX apps Due: 2011-01-03 -- due 2011-02-22 -- OPEN
20:36:50 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/508
20:37:33 [noah]
LM: Discussed Tues.
20:37:40 [noah]
ACTION-531?
20:37:40 [trackbot]
ACTION-531 -- Larry Masinter to write draft document on architectural good practice relating to registries Due 2011-04-19 -- due 2011-02-17 -- OPEN
20:37:40 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/531
20:38:04 [noah]
ACTION-515?
20:38:04 [trackbot]
ACTION-515 -- Larry Masinter to (as trackbot proxy for John) who will publish http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2011/02/security-web.html, slightly cleaned up, with help from Noah and Larry Due: 2011-03-07 -- due 2011-02-15 -- OPEN
20:38:04 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/515
20:38:31 [noah]
ACTION-525?
20:38:31 [trackbot]
ACTION-525 -- Noah Mendelsohn to check with John before closing http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/products/2 WebApps access control -- due 2011-02-17 -- OPEN
20:38:31 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/525
20:38:56 [noah]
ACTION-529?
20:38:56 [trackbot]
ACTION-529 -- Noah Mendelsohn to schedule telcon discussion of a potential TAG product relating to offline applications and packaged Web -- due 2011-02-17 -- OPEN
20:38:56 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/529
20:39:19 [noah]
close ACTION-513
20:39:19 [trackbot]
ACTION-513 Do F2F agenda closed
20:39:42 [noah]
ACTION-501?
20:39:42 [trackbot]
ACTION-501 -- Noah Mendelsohn to follow up on whether GeoLocation finds reasonable answer on giving permission per site/app etc [self-assigned] -- due 2011-03-01 -- OPEN
20:39:42 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/501
20:40:04 [noah]
ACTION-379?
20:40:04 [trackbot]
ACTION-379 -- Noah Mendelsohn to check whether HTML language reference has been published -- due 2011-02-08 -- OPEN
20:40:04 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/379
20:42:07 [noah]
ACTION-379 Due 2011-03-09
20:42:07 [trackbot]
ACTION-379 Check whether HTML language reference has been published due date now 2011-03-09
20:42:34 [masinter]
why isn't this document listed in http://www.w3.org/html/wg/
20:45:01 [noah]
ACTION-344?
20:45:01 [trackbot]
ACTION-344 -- Jonathan Rees to alert TAG chair when CORS and/or UMP goes to LC to trigger security review -- due 2011-02-15 -- OPEN
20:45:01 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/344
20:45:07 [noah]
Leave for now, moving ahead.
20:45:13 [noah]
ACTION-532?
20:45:13 [trackbot]
ACTION-532 -- Jonathan Rees to propose changes to status of issue-39 & issue-57, and perhaps opening new issue relating to H. Halpin's concerns about 200 responses Due: 2011-02-22 -- due 2011-02-17 -- OPEN
20:45:13 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/532
20:45:24 [noah]
ACTION-381?
20:45:24 [trackbot]
ACTION-381 -- Jonathan Rees to spend 2 hours helping Ian with http://www.w3.org/standards/webarch/ -- due 2011-02-11 -- OPEN
20:45:24 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/381
20:45:53 [noah]
ACTION-509?
20:45:53 [trackbot]
ACTION-509 -- Jonathan Rees to communicate with RDFa WG regarding documenting the fragid / media type issue -- due 2011-01-29 -- OPEN
20:45:53 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/509
20:46:08 [noah]
JAR: I've been working with Manu
20:46:17 [noah]
ACTION-509 Due 2011-03-15
20:46:17 [trackbot]
ACTION-509 Communicate with RDFa WG regarding documenting the fragid / media type issue due date now 2011-03-15
20:46:20 [noah]
ACTION-509 Due 2011-02-15
20:46:21 [trackbot]
ACTION-509 Communicate with RDFa WG regarding documenting the fragid / media type issue due date now 2011-02-15
20:46:50 [noah]
ACTION-477?
20:46:50 [trackbot]
ACTION-477 -- Henry S. Thompson to organize meeting on persistence of domains -- due 2011-03-15 -- OPEN
20:46:50 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/477
20:47:12 [noah]
ACTION-33?
20:47:12 [trackbot]
ACTION-33 -- Henry S. Thompson to revise naming challenges story in response to Dec 2008 F2F discussion -- due 2011-01-31 -- OPEN
20:47:12 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/33
20:48:02 [noah]
ACTION-33 Due 2011-03-08
20:48:02 [trackbot]
ACTION-33 revise naming challenges story in response to Dec 2008 F2F discussion due date now 2011-03-08
20:48:51 [noah]
ACTION-440?
20:48:51 [trackbot]
ACTION-440 -- Henry S. Thompson to ask Hixie what is meant in this [section 9.2] by "retrieving an external entity" and could some clarification be added. -- due 2011-02-01 -- OPEN
20:48:51 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/440
20:49:28 [noah]
ACTION-440 Due 2011-02-22
20:49:28 [trackbot]
ACTION-440 Ask Hixie what is meant in this [section 9.2] by "retrieving an external entity" and could some clarification be added. due date now 2011-02-22
20:49:49 [noah]
ACTION-23?
20:49:49 [trackbot]
ACTION-23 -- Henry S. Thompson to track progress of #int bug 1974 in the XML Schema namespace document in the XML Schema WG -- due 2011-01-19 -- OPEN
20:49:49 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/23
20:50:16 [noah]
HT: Reviewed state of this, saw something on the XML Schema mailing list implying done, but found closed in error.
20:50:32 [noah]
HT: The bit we care about still hasn't been, I'm still monitoring.
20:50:45 [noah]
ACTION-23 Due 2011-05-01
20:50:45 [trackbot]
ACTION-23 track progress of #int bug 1974 in the XML Schema namespace document in the XML Schema WG due date now 2011-05-01
20:51:34 [noah]
topic: Pending review actions
20:51:39 [noah]
ACTION-421?
20:51:39 [trackbot]
ACTION-421 -- Henry S. Thompson to frame the discussion of EXI deployment at a future meeting -- due 2011-01-21 -- PENDINGREVIEW
20:51:39 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/421
20:51:46 [noah]
HT: I was asked to find out the deal on deployment.
20:52:16 [noah]
HT: Sent a note to the list and got an answer from John Schneider. Please schedule discussion.
20:52:54 [noah]
ACTION-511?
20:52:55 [trackbot]
ACTION-511 -- Larry Masinter to send email framing TAG work on registries -- due 2011-01-20 -- PENDINGREVIEW
20:52:55 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/511
20:53:49 [noah]
LM: I took another ACTION-531, close ACTION-511
20:54:46 [noah]
close ACTION-511
20:54:46 [trackbot]
ACTION-511 Send email framing TAG work on registries closed
20:55:03 [noah]
ACTION-512?
20:55:03 [trackbot]
ACTION-512 -- Noah Mendelsohn to do F2F local arrangements -- due 2011-01-27 -- PENDINGREVIEW
20:55:03 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/512
20:55:07 [noah]
close ACTION-512
20:55:07 [trackbot]
ACTION-512 Do F2F local arrangements closed
21:00:01 [noah]
ACTION: Noah to schedule TAG discussion of !# (check with Yves) [self-assigne]
21:00:01 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-533 - Schedule TAG discussion of !# (check with Yves) [self-assigne] [on Noah Mendelsohn - due 2011-02-17].
21:05:31 [DKA]
DKA has joined #tagmem
21:07:07 [noah]
topic: EXI
21:07:37 [noah]
scribenick: noah
21:11:25 [noah]
HT: There are 3 implementations linked from the home page, 1 proprietary, 2 open source.
21:31:53 [jar]
q+ dka to talk about exi
21:32:08 [ht]
q- masinter
21:35:24 [ht]
ack timbl
21:35:30 [ht]
ack dka
21:35:30 [Zakim]
dka, you wanted to talk about exi
21:47:27 [noah]
We are adjourned
21:50:18 [jar]
jar has joined #tagmem
22:07:58 [timbl]
timbl has joined #tagmem
22:10:26 [ndw]
ndw has joined #tagmem
22:57:16 [Norm]
Norm has joined #tagmem