14:48:41 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #dap
14:48:41 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/02/09-dap-irc
14:48:43 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
14:48:43 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #dap
14:48:45 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be DAP
14:48:45 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see UW_DAP()10:00AM scheduled to start in 12 minutes
14:48:46 <trackbot> Meeting: Device APIs and Policy Working Group Teleconference
14:48:46 <trackbot> Date: 09 February 2011
14:49:49 <fjh> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Feb/0045.html
14:50:40 <fjh> Chair: Robin_Berjon, Frederick_Hirsch
14:50:50 <fjh> Present+ Robin_Berjon, Frederick_Hirsch
14:54:09 <fjh> Regrets+ Suresh_Chitturi , Dong-Young_Lee, Marengo_Marco, John_Morris
14:54:32 <fjh> Topic: Administrative
14:54:48 <fjh> Will also include last week's agenda, http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Feb/0002.html
14:57:43 <Zakim> UW_DAP()10:00AM has now started
14:57:50 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
14:58:00 <fjh_> fjh_ has joined #dap
14:58:15 <fjh_> zakim, [IPCaller] is fjh
14:58:15 <Zakim> +fjh; got it
14:59:52 <AnssiK> AnssiK has joined #dap
15:01:00 <Zakim> +??P5
15:01:07 <AnssiK> zakim, p5 is me
15:01:07 <Zakim> sorry, AnssiK, I do not recognize a party named 'p5'
15:01:41 <dom> Zakim, code?
15:01:41 <Zakim> the conference code is 3279 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), dom
15:01:46 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
15:01:47 <AnssiK> zakim, ??P5 is me
15:01:47 <Zakim> +AnssiK; got it
15:01:53 <darobin> Zakim, [IPCaller] is me
15:01:54 <Zakim> +darobin; got it
15:02:19 <AnssiK> Present+ Anssi_Kostiainen
15:02:21 <Zakim> +??P14
15:02:25 <dom> Zakim, ??P14 is me
15:02:25 <Zakim> +dom; got it
15:02:35 <dom> Present+ Dominique_Hazael-Massieux
15:05:05 <Zakim> + +46.1.07.15.aaaa
15:05:21 <dom> Zakim, aaaa is Niklas
15:05:21 <Zakim> +Niklas; got it
15:05:44 <fjh> Present+ Niklas_Widell
15:05:52 <Zakim> + +47.57.091.aabb
15:06:00 <richt> Present+ Rich_Tibbett
15:06:08 <darobin> Zakim, aabb is richt 
15:06:08 <Zakim> +richt; got it
15:06:20 <Claes> Claes has joined #dap
15:06:25 <fjh> zakim, who is here>
15:06:25 <Zakim> I don't understand 'who is here>', fjh
15:06:30 <fjh> zakim, who is here?
15:06:32 <Zakim> On the phone I see fjh, AnssiK, darobin, dom, Niklas, richt
15:06:33 <Zakim> On IRC I see Claes, AnssiK, fjh_, Zakim, RRSAgent, fjh, darobin, JonathanJ, richt, wmaslowski_, dom, ilkka, trackbot, ingmar, lgombos
15:06:58 <manyoung> manyoung has joined #dap
15:07:25 <Zakim> + +1.610.801.aacc
15:07:36 <Dzung_Tran> Dzung_Tran has joined #dap
15:07:40 <dom> Zakim, aacc is claes
15:07:40 <Zakim> +claes; got it
15:07:42 <Dzung_Tran> Present+ Dzung_Tran
15:07:57 <Claes> Present+ Claes_Nilsson
15:08:11 <fjh> zakim, who is here?
15:08:11 <Zakim> On the phone I see fjh, AnssiK, darobin, dom, Niklas, richt, claes
15:08:12 <Zakim> On IRC I see Dzung_Tran, manyoung, Claes, AnssiK, fjh_, Zakim, RRSAgent, fjh, darobin, JonathanJ, richt, wmaslowski_, dom, ilkka, trackbot, ingmar, lgombos
15:09:17 <Zakim> +??P21
15:09:37 <manyoung> Present+ Manyoung_Cho
15:09:48 <dom> [our charter says "To be successful, this Working Group is expected to have 10 or more active participants for its duration, and to have the participation of the industry leaders in fields relevant to the specifications it produces. "]
15:10:20 <fjh> zakim, who is here?
15:10:20 <Zakim> On the phone I see fjh, AnssiK, darobin, dom, Niklas, richt, claes, ??P21
15:10:20 <darobin> can we close down and declare victory?
15:10:22 <Zakim> On IRC I see Dzung_Tran, manyoung, Claes, AnssiK, fjh_, Zakim, RRSAgent, fjh, darobin, JonathanJ, richt, wmaslowski_, dom, ilkka, trackbot, ingmar, lgombos
15:10:28 <dom> Zakim, ??P21 is probably manyoung
15:10:28 <Zakim> +manyoung?; got it
15:10:39 <manyoung> I think so
15:11:00 <fjh> Topic: Administrative
15:11:12 <fjh> Seoul F2F and  workshop planning 
15:11:12 <fjh> please complete registration page, http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/43696/seoul-f2f-reg/
15:11:34 <fjh> UK/French dial in access; calling zakim via voip, http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-device-apis/2011Feb/0000.html
15:11:42 <fjh> Messaging API draft update published, see http://www.w3.org/TR/2011/WD-messaging-api-20110120/
15:11:49 <fjh> Web Introducer prototype update, http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Jan/0096.html (Claes)
15:11:52 <Zakim> +Laszlo_Gombos
15:12:13 <darobin> Scribe: Laszlo
15:12:20 <darobin> ScribeNick: lgombos 
15:12:20 <fjh> TAG on minimization
15:12:21 <fjh> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2011/02/08-agenda.html#apis (Draft TAG minimization draft)
15:12:21 <fjh> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2011Feb/0059.html (comment, Frederick)
15:12:21 <fjh> implementer feedback? http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Feb/0020.html 
15:13:11 <fjh> "Mobile Develop for Privacy Challenge"
15:13:11 <fjh> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2011Feb/0067.html
15:13:34 <dom> Zakim, who's on the call?
15:13:34 <Zakim> On the phone I see fjh, AnssiK, darobin, dom, Niklas, richt, claes, manyoung?, Laszlo_Gombos
15:13:44 <lgombos> Topic: Minutes Approval
15:13:55 <fjh> Approve 2 February minutes
15:13:56 <fjh> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Feb/att-0037/minutes-2011-02-02.html
15:14:10 <lgombos> Resolution: Minutes approval from last call
15:14:32 <lgombos> Topic: Contacts 
15:14:36 <fjh> Draft updated,  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Jan/0091.html 
15:14:47 <fjh> clarification of non-supported field vs empty array, http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Feb/0027.html
15:15:01 <fjh> variety of scripting approaches to contact interface invocation, http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Feb/0018.html
15:15:40 <lgombos> richt: Feedback collected from list, will put in the spec in the next few days
15:16:31 <lgombos> fjh: timeframe ?
15:17:23 <dom> AFAIK, the obstacles to Last Call are utcOffset issue (ISSUE-106), and defining PendingOp (in Core device or elsewhere)
15:17:35 <dom> ISSUE-106?
15:17:35 <trackbot> ISSUE-106 -- Does Contacts API having a timezone field make sense, should it be utfOffset or utcOffset and tz to better match vCard? -- open
15:17:35 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/106
15:17:54 <AnssiK> q+ to ask about ContactName.formatted and ContactAddress.formatted
15:18:21 <fjh> plan to publish updated public working draft soon?
15:18:26 <fjh> ack AnssiK
15:18:26 <Zakim> AnssiK, you wanted to ask about ContactName.formatted and ContactAddress.formatted
15:19:04 <dom> q+ to respond
15:19:09 <lgombos> AnssiK: what is formatted fields are for ?
15:19:28 <lgombos> richt: get the full contact in a single string
15:19:43 <fjh> Using agenda from last week at this point - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Feb/0002.html . 
15:20:00 <dom> q?
15:20:04 <fjh> ISSUE-106?
15:20:04 <trackbot> ISSUE-106 -- Does Contacts API having a timezone field make sense, should it be utfOffset or utcOffset and tz to better match vCard? -- open
15:20:04 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/106
15:20:07 <AnssiK> q+ on Search Qualifiers: when zero-length, returns nothing or array of empty objects (having length of matched objects)?
15:20:20 <fjh> ack dom
15:20:20 <Zakim> dom, you wanted to respond
15:21:43 <fjh> using terms family name, given is clearer that first last, internationally?
15:22:11 <dom> dom: formattedName allows to take into account that depending on countries you would address someone with "familyName givenName" and not with "givenName familyName"
15:22:27 <dom> ... so doesn't duplicate info, adds an additional bit, important I18N-wise
15:23:41 <richt> http://dev.w3.org/2009/dap/contacts/#search-cardinality
15:23:56 <dom> [I wonder how we're planning to make progress on ISSUE-106: any volunteer to draft a proposal to resolve that issue?]
15:24:13 <darobin> [right, I'd like people to take actions and go do them :)]
15:24:37 <darobin> [and if that includes someone other than I doing PendingOp, it's even nicer]
15:24:56 <Zakim> +ingmar
15:26:28 <dom> q+ to point that vcard has both
15:26:29 <ingmar> present+ Ingmar_Kliche
15:26:36 <dom> Zakim, who's noisy?
15:26:43 <darobin> q+ to say that having both is the point (I thought)
15:26:47 <Zakim> dom, listening for 11 seconds I heard sound from the following: fjh (91%), manyoung? (69%)
15:26:50 <dom> Zakim, mute manyoung
15:26:50 <Zakim> manyoung? should now be muted
15:27:03 <AnssiK1> AnssiK1 has joined #dap
15:27:09 <dom> q-
15:27:28 <darobin> q-
15:27:35 <dom> ACTION: Rich to draft a proposal for utcOffset based on mailing list feedback (re ISSUE-106)
15:27:35 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - Rich
15:27:39 <dom> ACTION: Richard to draft a proposal for utcOffset based on mailing list feedback (re ISSUE-106)
15:27:39 <trackbot> Created ACTION-333 - Draft a proposal for utcOffset based on mailing list feedback (re ISSUE-106) [on Richard Tibbett - due 2011-02-16].
15:27:47 <fjh> action: richt to propose resolution for ISSUE-106
15:27:51 <trackbot> Created ACTION-334 - Propose resolution for ISSUE-106 [on Richard Tibbett - due 2011-02-16].
15:28:14 <dom> ACTION-334: dup of ACTION-333
15:28:14 <trackbot> ACTION-334 Propose resolution for ISSUE-106 notes added
15:28:17 <dom> close ACTION-334
15:28:20 <trackbot> ACTION-334 Propose resolution for ISSUE-106 closed
15:28:26 <AnssiK> q+
15:28:31 <fjh> ack anssik
15:28:31 <Zakim> AnssiK, you wanted to comment on Search Qualifiers: when zero-length, returns nothing or array of empty objects (having length of matched objects)? and to 
15:28:50 <fjh> anssi asks about extended properties
15:29:21 <lgombos> AnssiK: what is the difference between MUST and SHOULD
15:29:33 <lgombos> richt: we can try MUST
15:30:22 <lgombos> richt: SHOULD is just a guideline, MUST would be better
15:30:40 <AnssiK> http://dev.w3.org/2009/dap/contacts/#extended-contact-properties-and-parameters
15:30:42 <Zakim> -claes
15:31:08 <Zakim> +claes
15:31:17 <lgombos> AnssiK: what about other DAP specs ? 
15:32:47 <fjh> ISSUE: should Contacts API have  MUST  instead of SHOULD for extended attributes, is this a general issue for all specs?
15:32:47 <trackbot> Created ISSUE-108 - Should Contacts API have  MUST  instead of SHOULD for extended attributes, is this a general issue for all specs? ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/108/edit .
15:33:57 <fjh> laszlo notes Optionally can extend spec, but if you do you must do it a certain way
15:34:06 <fjh> +1 to that approach
15:34:11 <dom> [I suggest using the same approach/wording other specs do this, e.g. the CSS specs]
15:34:26 <nwidell> nwidell has joined #dap
15:34:27 <darobin> +1 to using the same wording as elsewhere
15:34:44 <fjh> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Jan/0106.html
15:34:49 <nwidell> Present+ Niklas_Widell
15:35:00 <darobin> q?
15:35:10 <darobin> q+ to PendingOp
15:35:17 <fjh> ack darobin
15:35:17 <Zakim> darobin, you wanted to PendingOp
15:36:22 <lgombos> darobin: We do not have a device and servcie object spec
15:36:26 <fjh> Robin notes PendingOp is in the device spec.
15:37:23 <lgombos> darobin: what about navigator.contacts instead of navigator.service.contact ? 
15:37:44 <fjh> s/Robin notes PendingOp is in the device spec.//
15:39:02 <lgombos> richt: finds cool that one could cancel a pending op
15:39:28 <lgombos> darobin: could be copnfusing of a picker is cancelled/discarded programatically
15:39:42 <fjh> s/copnfusing/confusing/
15:40:06 <fjh> rrsagent, generate minutes
15:40:06 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/02/09-dap-minutes.html fjh
15:41:33 <lgombos> lgombos: PendingOp only usefull if HW resources are involved
15:42:06 <lgombos> Resolution: remove PendingOp for now, see what is the feedback
15:42:07 <fjh> proposed RESOLUTION: remove PendingOp from Contacts
15:43:20 <richt> could we have navigator.contact (minus the 's')
15:43:36 <richt> or do we want the 's' (and do we really want to bikeshed ;))
15:43:44 <darobin> [that's bikeshedding, pick whichever :)]
15:43:52 <lgombos> RESOLUTION - navigator.contact (no servcie object)
15:44:01 <richt> done.
15:44:43 <lgombos> fjh: Where are we with messaging
15:45:20 <lgombos> Topic: Messaging
15:46:44 <lgombos> fjh: deffer discussion on this 
15:46:55 <darobin> +1 to talking on the list, could bring people to the calls!
15:48:56 <richt> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Jan/0105.html
15:49:38 <lgombos> fjh: initiate discussion on the list to move this forward
15:51:02 <lgombos> richt: conserned about being specific about mms and sms
15:51:31 <darobin> [I look forward to using it with http://xmpp.org/internet-drafts/attic/draft-saintandre-xmpp-uri-01.html]
15:52:51 <lgombos> Topic: gallery
15:53:05 <fjh> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Jan/0101.html
15:53:19 <dom> ACTION-314?
15:53:19 <trackbot> ACTION-314 -- Anssi Kostiainen to react on media gallery use cases -- due 2010-12-15 -- OPEN
15:53:19 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/314
15:54:29 <lgombos> darobin: Connected Media Experience people are interested ..
15:56:47 <fjh> Topic: Calendar
15:56:48 <fjh> edits to align with Contacts, comments
15:56:48 <fjh> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Feb/0001.html
15:56:58 <lgombos> Topic: Privacy
15:57:09 <fjh> Mozilla, "Do Not Track", http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Jan/0095.html
15:57:10 <fjh> Microsoft, http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Jan/0100.html
15:57:10 <fjh> Ruleset issue questions,  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Jan/0097.html
15:58:02 <fjh> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Feb/0000.html
15:58:46 <lgombos> fjh: Agenda for F2F ? 
15:59:22 <dom> (regrets for next week - will be at MWC)
15:59:40 <fjh> Regrets+ Cécile_Marc
16:00:49 <Zakim> -AnssiK
16:00:54 <Zakim> -Niklas
16:00:54 <Zakim> -darobin
16:00:54 <Zakim> -Laszlo_Gombos
16:00:55 <Zakim> -dom
16:00:57 <Zakim> -richt
16:00:59 <Zakim> -ingmar
16:01:00 <fjh> rrsagent, generate minutes
16:01:00 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/02/09-dap-minutes.html fjh
16:01:01 <AnssiK> AnssiK has left #dap
16:01:03 <Zakim> -manyoung?
16:01:05 <Zakim> -fjh
16:01:07 <Zakim> -claes
16:01:07 <manyoung> -manyoung
16:01:09 <Zakim> UW_DAP()10:00AM has ended
16:01:11 <Zakim> Attendees were fjh, AnssiK, darobin, dom, +46.1.07.15.aaaa, Niklas, +47.57.091.aabb, richt, +1.610.801.aacc, claes, manyoung?, Laszlo_Gombos, ingmar
16:01:34 <manyoung> manyoung has left #dap
16:09:36 <fjh> Present+ Laszlo_Gombos
16:10:16 <fjh> s/Resolution: Minutes approval from last call/RESOLUTION: Minutes from 2 February 2011 approved.
16:11:09 <fjh> s/RESOLUTION - navigator.contact (no servcie object)/RESOLUTION: use navigator.contact (no service object)/
16:12:02 <fjh> s/Resolution: remove PendingOp for now, see what is the feedback/RESOLUTION: remove PendingOp from Contacts/
16:12:29 <fjh> s/Agenda for F2F ?//
16:12:41 <fjh> rrsagent, generate minutes
16:12:41 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/02/09-dap-minutes.html fjh
16:13:27 <fjh> s/RESOLUTION: use navigator.contact (no service object)/RESOLUTION: use navigator.contact in Contacts (no service object)/
16:13:32 <fjh> rrsagent, generate minutes
16:13:32 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/02/09-dap-minutes.html fjh
16:13:54 <fjh> s/Where are we with messaging//
16:14:38 <fjh> s/deffer discussion on this/Need to discuss how to move forward given new approach, also determine interest of current editors/
16:14:48 <fjh> s/conserned/concerned/
16:15:04 <fjh> s/-manyoung//
16:15:09 <fjh> rrsagent, generate minutes
16:15:09 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/02/09-dap-minutes.html fjh
16:15:45 <fjh> s/determine interest of current editors/determine interest of current editors, discuss further on list./
16:15:55 <fjh> rrsagent, generate minutes
16:15:55 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/02/09-dap-minutes.html fjh
17:54:45 <Zakim> Zakim has left #dap
18:30:56 <JonathanJ> JonathanJ has left #DAP