20:03:27 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #html-a11y
20:03:27 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/02/07-html-a11y-irc
20:03:29 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
20:03:29 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #html-a11y
20:03:31 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 2119
20:03:31 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_PFWG(A11Y)3:00PM scheduled to start 3 minutes ago
20:03:32 <trackbot> Meeting: HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
20:03:32 <trackbot> Date: 07 February 2011
20:03:56 <richardschwerdtfe> meeting: W3C HTML Canvas Accessibility Working Group
20:03:59 <richardschwerdtfe> chair: Rich
20:08:25 <richardschwerdtfe> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-canvas-api/2011JanMar/0060.html
20:08:31 <richardschwerdtfe> RRSAgent, make log public
20:08:35 <richardschwerdtfe> scribe: Rich
20:08:43 <richardschwerdtfe> Topic: Caret/Selection Position
20:10:23 <richardschwerdtfe> Rich: We should finish the spec as is before we decide on moving caret selection
20:10:23 <richardschwerdtfe> ]
20:11:11 <richardschwerdtfe> Chuck: I think that that leaving it as a rectangle is fine.
20:11:31 <richardschwerdtfe> Chuck: CSS has a scale command but it has to be mapped to the old coordinate space for the mouse
20:12:28 <richardschwerdtfe> Chuck: I think what we have is fine. We can say we use the current transformation matrix
20:14:57 <frankolivier> frankolivier has joined #html-a11y
20:15:02 <richardschwerdtfe> Chuck: We need to transform the width and height based on the current transformation matrix
20:19:22 <richardschwerdtfe> Chuck: I think adding w, and h to the transformation of the caret is fine
20:19:51 <richardschwerdtfe> Chuck: I need to prototype it
20:20:12 <richardschwerdtfe> Chuck: Dominic (Google) will implement it in Chrome
20:21:55 <richardschwerdtfe> Rich: It looks like Benjamin wants us to move caret and selection position to a normative definition in the spec. 
20:22:03 <richardschwerdtfe> Rich: I will do that and send it out for review
20:23:08 <richardschwerdtfe> Rich: anything else on caret blink rate?
20:23:42 <richardschwerdtfe> Chuck: This does not help in and and by itself
20:24:14 <richardschwerdtfe> Rich: I will add text in blink rate to refer to WCAG 2 requirements on flashing
20:25:46 <richardschwerdtfe> Chuck: there can really be so much animation and movement going on that caret seems inadequate but putting text underneath blink rate that refers to WCAG 2 seems like a good move
20:26:13 <richardschwerdtfe> Rich: Will add a note that generalizes on flashing wrt. caret and general canvas updates
20:26:20 <Downchuck> was considering removing the actual caretBlink method and just having the note there
20:27:22 <richardschwerdtfe> Rich: we need to expose blink rate somehow
20:28:00 <richardschwerdtfe> Chuck: most display caret by a more stable cursor
20:28:52 <richardschwerdtfe> ZoomText: sets a non-blinking caret
20:29:03 <richardschwerdtfe> Rich: yes, but they probably do that in the system.
20:32:32 <richardschwerdtfe> Rich: If an AT changes the blink rate and we don't respond to the blink rate in canvas apps we have a problem.
20:34:40 <richardschwerdtfe> Rich: update canvas blink rate with note and run by Zoomtext team
20:35:11 <Downchuck> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=11328
20:39:26 <richardschwerdtfe> Topic: TextExtent
20:39:44 <richardschwerdtfe> Rich: Did Hixie respond to your text extent?
20:40:01 <richardschwerdtfe> Chuck: He now understands what we are asking and I am waiting to hear back.
20:40:54 <richardschwerdtfe> Topic: Limiting content in the canvas subtree
20:41:31 <richardschwerdtfe> Chuck: Browser manufacturers do not want to limit content in the canvas shadow DOM.
20:41:53 <richardschwerdtfe> Frank: Do you agree with this?
20:42:09 <richardschwerdtfe> to Frank Olivier: Do you agree with this?
20:42:50 <frankolivier> I agree
20:43:13 <frankolivier> It would be good to have a discussion with all browser implementors on this topic (in the html5 wg)
20:43:27 <frankolivier> ...as we are creating a new non-visual 'mode' for all element
20:43:45 <richardschwerdtfe> Resolution: Do not want to limit canvas subtree in this group
20:44:01 <richardschwerdtfe> To Frank: How do you propose we raise this question?
20:44:24 <richardschwerdtfe> To Frank: Want me to have Janina raise this?
20:44:42 <frankolivier> I think a mail on this topic to html-wg should be sufficient
20:44:42 <richardschwerdtfe> To Frank: I can her raise this on the next HTML call Thursday
20:44:50 <frankolivier> we need dom experts to weigh in here
20:45:04 <richardschwerdtfe> To Frank: Do you want to post the question?
20:45:20 <frankolivier> Sure, will do
20:45:27 <richardschwerdtfe> ok
20:46:17 <richardschwerdtfe> Action: Olivier: Post question to HTML working group on whether to limit HTML elements in non-visible content such as the Canvas fallback content
20:46:17 <trackbot> Created ACTION-104 - Post question to HTML working group on whether to limit HTML elements in non-visible content such as the Canvas fallback content [on Frank Olivier - due 2011-02-14].
20:46:57 <richardschwerdtfe> Topic: IME
20:48:07 <richardschwerdtfe> Chuck: WhatWG squashed it over the concern over Rich Text Editing. This was raised by Japan engineers
20:48:57 <richardschwerdtfe> Topic: Spelling, grammar, selection
20:49:25 <richardschwerdtfe> Rich: We can use the HTML selection methods across the browsers
20:50:05 <richardschwerdtfe> Chuck: Webkit does not allow disconnected selections
20:50:13 <Downchuck> <div>node A</div><div>node C</div><div>node B</div>
20:50:23 <Downchuck> if for whatever reason it was in that format, and A & B were to be selected, but not C
20:51:17 <Downchuck> re: "- Positioning information of content is required - per AISquared feedback"
20:51:18 <richardschwerdtfe> Rich: We could a caret using <mark aria-selected="true"></mark> if needed in the content but would need to make aria-selected a global attribute
20:51:42 <Downchuck> We only need to respond to a subset of the dom
20:52:27 <richardschwerdtfe> Rich: Other than aria-selected I don't see any blocking items
20:52:36 <richardschwerdtfe> Rich: for us
20:55:16 <richardschwerdtfe> To Frank: We need to be able to populate the bounding rectangles for MSAA. 
20:55:32 <richardschwerdtfe> To Frank: Have you given any thoughts to this?
20:56:57 <frankolivier> Our current approach is to report the boudnign rectangle of the cnavas element
20:57:27 <richardschwerdtfe> Rich: yes but all the fallback content can't be in the same place
20:57:55 <Downchuck> drawFocusRing reports the live bounding rectangle; <div aria-live="polite">Text to display</div> reports the content
20:57:57 <richardschwerdtfe> we could take x,y coordinates from area maps and apply it to elements - worst case?
20:58:17 <frankolivier> ...that seems like an ok approach...
20:58:28 <frankolivier> we'd need top, left, width, height
20:58:33 <richardschwerdtfe> yes
20:58:46 <frankolivier> ...or we could have the author set those on the actual elements
20:59:05 <richardschwerdtfe> Rich: true
20:59:12 <frankolivier> i getelementbyid on the fake checkbox, set the t, l, w, h
20:59:31 <frankolivier> that seems like a better approach and will fix our architecture a bit better
20:59:43 <richardschwerdtfe> ok
21:00:37 <richardschwerdtfe> Rich: Could be a lot of IDs but it would work
21:01:16 <richardschwerdtfe> Chuck: I have some thoughts. I will show an example for next week
21:01:44 <richardschwerdtfe> Chuck: I will show how this will work in a live application for next week
21:02:15 <richardschwerdtfe> Topic: VNC Clients
21:02:37 <richardschwerdtfe> Chuck: We can get MSAA data/events sent over the pipe
21:02:59 <richardschwerdtfe> To Frank: Have you thought about doing this for Windows VNCs?
21:03:06 <Downchuck> remote desktop
21:03:12 <richardschwerdtfe> RRSAgent, draft minutes
21:03:12 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/02/07-html-a11y-minutes.html richardschwerdtfe
21:04:33 <richardschwerdtfe> Zakim, end  meeting
21:04:33 <Zakim> I don't understand 'end  meeting', richardschwerdtfe
21:04:43 <richardschwerdtfe> Zakim, bye
21:04:43 <Zakim> Zakim has left #html-a11y
21:04:50 <richardschwerdtfe> RRSAgent, draft minutes
21:04:50 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/02/07-html-a11y-minutes.html richardschwerdtfe
21:07:29 <richardschwerdtfe> "Gregory J. Rosmaita" <oedipus@hicom.net>
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21:12:13 <Downchuck> mugtug.com/darkroom/
21:12:19 <Downchuck> in Chrome you can SHIFT+Space 
21:12:30 <Downchuck> still adding in other examples of a11y; will have them tomorrow.
21:15:24 <Downchuck> I mean, next eweek.
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