19:28:34 RRSAgent has joined #svg 19:28:34 logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/02/02-svg-irc 19:28:36 RRSAgent, make logs public 19:28:38 Zakim, this will be GA_SVGWG 19:28:38 ok, trackbot; I see GA_SVGWG(SVG1)2:30PM scheduled to start in 2 minutes 19:28:39 Meeting: SVG Working Group Teleconference 19:28:39 Date: 02 February 2011 19:29:11 GA_SVGWG(SVG1)2:30PM has now started 19:29:17 +tbah 19:30:13 +[IPcaller] 19:30:26 Zakim, [IP is me 19:30:26 +ed; got it 19:30:35 +Shepazu 19:32:29 +??P4 19:32:31 Zakim, ??P4 is me 19:32:31 +heycam; got it 19:32:49 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2011JanMar/0102.html 19:33:49 ChrisL has joined #svg 19:34:11 ChrisL has joined #svg 19:35:08 Zakim, pick a victim 19:35:08 Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose tbah 19:35:20 Zakim, pick a victim 19:35:20 Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose ed 19:35:24 Zakim, pick a victim 19:35:24 Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose heycam 19:35:32 + +39.524.9.aaaa 19:35:44 Scribe: Cameron 19:35:47 zakim, +39 is me 19:35:47 +ChrisL; got it 19:35:47 ScribeNick: heycam 19:36:07 Topic: SVG 1.1 Second Edition progress 19:36:20 CL: i've finally finished off the abbra test, which helps with a few i think 19:36:27 ... you just checked them in erik? 19:36:32 ED: yes i updated the tables 19:36:53 CL: i've also got another implementation from ekioh, which is a 1.2T implementation, but he claims that it passes 5 tests that we currently have listed as not being passed 19:36:54 Ekioh 19:36:55 > PW> animate-elem-46-t 19:36:55 > PW> fonts-desc-02-t 19:36:55 > PW> fonts-glyph-02-t 19:36:55 > PW> painting-stroke-10-t 19:36:55 > PW> text-intro-05-t 19:37:07 ... I haven't run it yet 19:37:45 ... i've also been talking with another company, they do an svg to pdf converter, and they're interested in running the test suite 19:37:55 ... that won't help us with any dom tests, but it may help with some of the static ones 19:38:15 ... lastly i can talk to alex, if we have a shortlist of items we don't pass, we could get him to work on those to fix them 19:38:55 CM: i think we should see which ones we should go for implementations, and which ones we should drop 19:39:09 CL: animate-elem-46-t we've already got one passing then 19:39:11 animate-elem-46-t one pass from Opera and Ekioh claim a pass too 19:40:52 CM: the issue is font-weight animation with discrete/interpolated values 19:41:35 19:41:44 CL: ask jdagett about whether you can interpolate these 19:41:55 that's what the test is doing, so depends on how the interpolation there is meant to work 19:42:00 ... I think it should interpolate from 0 to 1000 19:42:09 ... because there are fonts existing that say their weights that are not multiples of 100 19:42:16 ... 250s, 750s, etc. 19:43:21 CL: maybe we could just drop that sub-test, split it out 19:43:30 ... clarify the issue, and then bring it back as a separate test 19:43:44 ... if we think it's correct and we've got two passes then we're all right... 19:44:02 ED: afaics from firefox it's a timing issue rather than a font weight issue 19:45:09 +??P9 19:45:10 ... we did recently make a change to animation interpolation code that we had a bug on, not sure if it affected this test, but i can check internal builds to see how it goes 19:45:17 ... it's possible it looks more like what firefox is doing now 19:45:32 Zakim, ??P9 is me 19:45:32 +anthony_work; got it 19:46:14 CM: after the call i will test batik/firefox/webkit with the last subtest removed 19:46:33 ACTION: Chris to read css3 fonts and ask jdaggett about interpolating font-weight animations 19:46:34 Created ACTION-2936 - Read css3 fonts and ask jdaggett about interpolating font-weight animations [on Chris Lilley - due 2011-02-09]. 19:46:50 ACTION: cameron to test batik/firefox/webkit with the last subtest removed (animate-elem-46-t) 19:46:53 Created ACTION-2937 - Test batik/firefox/webkit with the last subtest removed (animate-elem-46-t) [on Cameron McCormack - due 2011-02-09]. 19:47:05 filters-light-02-f 19:47:27 +[Microsoft] 19:47:36 ED: is this something that's been changed because of errata? 19:47:40 s/ED/CL/ 19:47:43 ED: yes, from memory 19:47:52 CL: so some of this is stable stuff and some just changed 6 months ago 19:47:52 pdengler has joined #svg 19:48:15 CM: is this one affected by anthony's direction of the light erratum? 19:48:20 ED: it might be 19:48:23 AG: i will check 19:48:38 ED: it's about the same thing 19:48:43 ISSUE-2339? 19:48:43 ISSUE-2339 -- Last Call Comment: definition of azimuth, elevation for feDistantLight -- open 19:48:43 http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2339 19:49:00 CL: opera is the only one that passes 19:49:08 ... so we should lean on someone to fix it 19:49:18 AG: i think in the spec we've got it wrong 19:49:21 TB: inkscape does it backwards 19:49:32 ... let me check 19:49:59 CL: if the spec is wrong or ambiguous, and inkscape has copied the spec, and we've now corrected the spec... 19:50:09 TB: i ran the test automatically and with our test harness it failed 19:50:17 ... but when i open it in inkscape it passes, but the reference image is just a bit lighter 19:50:25 CL: i wouldn't worry about that too much 19:50:29 TB: we pass, then 19:50:38 CL: what about -03? 19:50:54 TB: that one we don't get the primitiveUnits=objectBoundingBox one correct 19:51:52 ED: so from our experience, the primitiveUnits thing is a day of work, not too hard, mostly just converting the coordinates 19:51:59 ... if you have everything else in place it shouldn't be that hard to implement 19:52:17 TB: i'm not sure whether we do objectBoundingBox correct anywhere 19:53:14 http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/svg/filters-light-03-f.svg 19:53:26 file://localhost/D:/WWW/dev/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/svg/filters-light-03-f.svg 19:55:52 AG: looking at filters-light-02 i think we should be fine re the erratum 19:56:01 ... since the test is testing azimuth, but the erratum is about elevation 19:56:26 ... the difference might be a darker or lighter arc 19:56:44 action: cameron to look at batik for filters-light-03 19:56:45 Created ACTION-2938 - Look at batik for filters-light-03 [on Cameron McCormack - due 2011-02-09]. 19:57:45 http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/svg/filters-overview-01-b.svg 19:57:46 filters-overview-01-b.svg 19:58:39 CM: firefox doesn't implement those four inputs 19:58:44 TB: inkscape doesn't do fillpaint/strokepaint 19:59:12 CL: i noticed the ones that fail in firefox are different from those that fail in batik 19:59:23 ... firefox doesn't do backgroundimage/backgroundalpha 19:59:28 CM: and fillpaint/fillstroke 20:00:33 CM: not sure how easy batik is to fix 20:00:39 ... backgroundimage/backgroundalpha are harder to implement 20:01:22 action: cameron to look into batik failing filters-overview-01 20:01:22 Created ACTION-2939 - Look into batik failing filters-overview-01 [on Cameron McCormack - due 2011-02-09]. 20:02:01 http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/svg/fonts-desc-04-t.svg 20:02:24 CL: abbra only has some small problems with italic/oblique 20:02:26 ... maybe it can be fixed 20:03:02 CM: seems like this test might be passed by some tiny implementations 20:03:07 ED: for opera it's the last line that fails 20:03:27 CL: and i think that's a css 2.1 conformance failure 20:03:38 CM: what's it testing specifically? 20:03:46 Italic can match against oblique or italic, but all other values must match exactly. 20:04:23 CM: seems like it should be a simple fix then 20:04:53 action: erik to look at opera failing fonts-desc-04 20:04:54 Created ACTION-2940 - Look at opera failing fonts-desc-04 [on Erik Dahlström - due 2011-02-09]. 20:05:25 adrianba has joined #svg 20:06:05 action: cameron to look into batik failing fonts-desc-04 20:06:05 Created ACTION-2941 - Look into batik failing fonts-desc-04 [on Cameron McCormack - due 2011-02-09]. 20:06:08 +[Microsoft.a] 20:06:17 http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/svg/fonts-desc-05-t.svg 20:06:32 zakim, [Microsoft.a] is me 20:06:32 +adrianba; got it 20:06:45 ED: fonts-desc-05, is that testing the same thing? or something different? 20:07:09 CL: this is testing smallcaps or not, also testing the oblique thing 20:07:49 CM: seems to be testing precedence of the font descriptors too, looking at the pass criteria 20:08:20 action: cameron to check batik for fonts-desc-05 20:08:20 Created ACTION-2942 - Check batik for fonts-desc-05 [on Cameron McCormack - due 2011-02-09]. 20:08:31 ED: might be hard for us to deal with, we do synthesis of smallcaps 20:08:40 ... i think the fonts don't have uppercase glyphs 20:08:53 ... so we would go to the missing glyph 20:09:02 CL: so you never use the real small cap font, only the synthesized one? 20:09:23 ACTION: Erik to check opera for fonts-desc-05, but no promises! 20:09:24 Created ACTION-2943 - Check opera for fonts-desc-05, but no promises! [on Erik Dahlström - due 2011-02-09]. 20:09:31 -tbah 20:09:47 http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/svg/fonts-glyph-02-t.svg 20:10:04 ED: i know this one passes in internal builds 20:10:11 CL: it should be fairly easy, if you do svg fonts 20:10:25 +tbah 20:10:27 ... on the element there's an arabic-form attribute 20:10:36 ... which says whether it's isolated, medial, etc. 20:10:40 ... that's what it's testing 20:11:25 ED: we could change it to use text-anchor=middle 20:12:59 pdengler has joined #svg 20:13:02 ED: same in opera, it will pass with text-anchor=middle 20:13:42 I just checked in the change on CVS 20:13:43 CM: not sure about this text-anchor issue 20:13:49 ED: the text has been backported from 1.2T 20:15:28 CL: the tests need fixing for those text-anchor issues 20:15:46 ACTION: erik to regenerate reference image for fonts-glyph-02 20:15:46 Created ACTION-2944 - Regenerate reference image for fonts-glyph-02 [on Erik Dahlström - due 2011-02-09]. 20:15:48 -ChrisL 20:16:01 http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/svg/fonts-glyph-03-t.svg 20:16:21 +ChrisL 20:17:13 CM: huh, i didn't know had lang="" 20:17:45 CL: it's because of CJK unification, to select between different versions of character for chinese and japanese etc. 20:21:48 ACTION: cameron to look into fonts-glyph-03 with no guarantees 20:21:48 Created ACTION-2945 - Look into fonts-glyph-03 with no guarantees [on Cameron McCormack - due 2011-02-09]. 20:21:57 ACTION-2945: for batik 20:21:57 ACTION-2945 Look into fonts-glyph-03 with no guarantees notes added 20:23:07 http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/svg/interact-pevents-04-t.svg 20:23:17 ED: i could live with fonts-glyph-03 being dropped for now 20:26:15 ACTION: Erik to change the font in fonts-glyph-03 to make the space glyphs be blank 20:26:16 Created ACTION-2946 - Change the font in fonts-glyph-03 to make the space glyphs be blank [on Erik Dahlström - due 2011-02-09]. 20:27:54 http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/svg/linking-uri-01-b.svg 20:28:02 CL: this is also affected by errata 20:28:07 ... svg use to say bare fragments mean nothing 20:28:15 ... we changed it to mean centered on the thing with that id 20:28:28 ... there's a seaprate issue about highlighting it, which i think we decided you shouldn't have to 20:28:35 ... but the moving the viewport probably would be an easy thing 20:28:43 ... if you already do views, it should be easy 20:28:53 q+ to ask about CSS highlighting behavior 20:29:21 http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/publish/linking.html 20:30:07 http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/publish/linking.html#SVGFragmentIdentifiers 20:35:19 DS: there may be UAs out there that do this, maybe we can change the spec to say "UAs can do highlighting if they support :target" 20:35:23 Zakim, who is making noise? 20:35:34 heycam, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: ChrisL (54%), adrianba (35%) 20:36:08 ACTION: Chris to propose wording for highlighting and :target 20:36:09 Created ACTION-2947 - Propose wording for highlighting and :target [on Chris Lilley - due 2011-02-09]. 20:36:26 viewTarget = "XML_Name [XML_NAME]*" 20:36:26 Indicates the target object associated with the view. If provided, then the target element(s) will be highlighted. 20:37:36 ACTION: Chris to change linking-uri-01 and linking-uri-02 to remove the requirement to highlight 20:37:36 Created ACTION-2948 - Change linking-uri-01 and linking-uri-02 to remove the requirement to highlight [on Chris Lilley - due 2011-02-09]. 20:38:17 http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/svg/painting-render-02-b.svg 20:39:43 CM: it should be testing alpha compositing with color-interpolation 20:39:53 ... nobody passes, and comments saying that the test is wrong 20:39:57 CL: let's unapprove it 20:40:10 ACTION: Cameron to unapprove painting-render-02-b 20:40:10 Created ACTION-2949 - Unapprove painting-render-02-b [on Cameron McCormack - due 2011-02-09]. 20:40:30 http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/svg/painting-stroke-10-t.svg 20:40:44 This tests that stroking of zero length subpaths will result in 20:40:44 some rendering if the 'stroke-linecap' property is set to 20:40:44 'square' or 'round', but not if it is set to 'butt'. 20:41:09 CM: jwatt has a patch for this, but it hasn't been approved to be landed yet 20:43:11 http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/harness/htmlObjectApproved/ 20:45:45 ED: we have a bunch of bugs on zero length paths, and i don't think any of those are close to being fixed 20:45:54 CM: it's probably not simple in batik, or in webkit 20:46:26 ACTION: Cameron to see how easy painting-stroke-10-t is to fix in Batik 20:46:26 Created ACTION-2950 - See how easy painting-stroke-10-t is to fix in Batik [on Cameron McCormack - due 2011-02-09]. 20:46:56 http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/svg/struct-dom-15-f.svg 20:47:25 CM: seems to be doing the use element correctly with event dispatch 20:47:36 ISSUE: for SVG2 / SVG Fonts, describe rational for @lang on , e.g. because of CJK unification, to select between different versions of character for chinese and japanese etc. 20:47:36 Created ISSUE-2399 - For SVG2 / SVG Fonts, describe rational for @lang on , e.g. because of CJK unification, to select between different versions of character for chinese and japanese etc. ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2399/edit . 20:50:20 ACTION: Cameron to review struct-dom-15 20:50:20 Created ACTION-2951 - Review struct-dom-15 [on Cameron McCormack - due 2011-02-09]. 20:50:42 -tbah 20:50:52 ED: we can split it up 20:51:15 +tbah 20:51:27 ACTION: Patrick to review struct-dom-15 20:51:28 Created ACTION-2952 - Review struct-dom-15 [on Patrick Dengler - due 2011-02-09]. 20:53:35 http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/harness/htmlObjectApproved/struct-dom-15-f.html 20:55:20 ACTION: Cameron to look into off-colors in reference images on mac 20:55:20 Created ACTION-2953 - Look into off-colors in reference images on mac [on Cameron McCormack - due 2011-02-09]. 20:55:34 http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/svg/text-align-07-t.svg 20:56:16 CL: abbra passes -08 but not -07 20:56:29 ... in unicode there are tables to determine which glyphs go from which baselines 20:56:38 PD: we only have two fonts that support ideographic baseline 20:56:44 -ChrisL 20:57:34 the problem is that for OT/TT fonts, there can be no baseline info at all so what should it align to? 20:57:57 the svg version of the test has explicit baseline infor for all four lines 20:58:11 so is the test correct, i am saying 20:59:27 CM: (summarises some fx tf discussions) 20:59:34 ... if we will unapprove one we should unapprove both 21:00:05 don't follow; one has explicit info and the other has implicit or missing info 21:00:27 ChrisL, ah you dropped off 21:00:38 pdengler has joined #svg 21:00:44 ChrisL, I'll mail you a summary of what we discussed, since we're out of time now anyway 21:01:01 yes I get dropped after 40 minutes 21:01:05 ok 21:01:49 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2011JanMar/0100.html 21:05:00 -[Microsoft] 21:05:02 -adrianba 21:05:02 -Shepazu 21:05:04 -ed 21:05:04 -heycam 21:05:05 -anthony_work 21:05:09 -tbah 21:05:10 GA_SVGWG(SVG1)2:30PM has ended 21:05:12 Attendees were tbah, [IPcaller], ed, Shepazu, heycam, +39.524.9.aaaa, ChrisL, anthony_work, [Microsoft], adrianba 21:09:02 ed, ah right yes i will :) 21:09:10 RRSAgent, make minutes 21:09:10 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/02/02-svg-minutes.html heycam 21:09:18 trackbot, end telcon 21:09:18 Zakim, list attendees 21:09:18 sorry, trackbot, I don't know what conference this is 21:09:19 RRSAgent, please draft minutes 21:09:19 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/02/02-svg-minutes.html trackbot 21:09:20 RRSAgent, bye 21:09:20 I see 18 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2011/02/02-svg-actions.rdf : 21:09:20 ACTION: Chris to read css3 fonts and ask jdaggett about interpolating font-weight animations [1] 21:09:20 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/02/02-svg-irc#T19-46-33 21:09:20 ACTION: cameron to test batik/firefox/webkit with the last subtest removed (animate-elem-46-t) [2] 21:09:20 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/02/02-svg-irc#T19-46-50 21:09:20 ACTION: cameron to look at batik for filters-light-03 [3] 21:09:20 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/02/02-svg-irc#T19-56-44 21:09:20 ACTION: cameron to look into batik failing filters-overview-01 [4] 21:09:20 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/02/02-svg-irc#T20-01-22 21:09:20 ACTION: erik to look at opera failing fonts-desc-04 [5] 21:09:20 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/02/02-svg-irc#T20-04-53 21:09:20 ACTION: cameron to look into batik failing fonts-desc-04 [6] 21:09:20 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/02/02-svg-irc#T20-06-05 21:09:20 ACTION: cameron to check batik for fonts-desc-05 [7] 21:09:20 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/02/02-svg-irc#T20-08-20 21:09:20 ACTION: Erik to check opera for fonts-desc-05, but no promises! [8] 21:09:20 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/02/02-svg-irc#T20-09-23 21:09:20 ACTION: erik to regenerate reference image for fonts-glyph-02 [9] 21:09:20 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/02/02-svg-irc#T20-15-46 21:09:20 ACTION: cameron to look into fonts-glyph-03 with no guarantees [10] 21:09:20 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/02/02-svg-irc#T20-21-48 21:09:20 ACTION: Erik to change the font in fonts-glyph-03 to make the space glyphs be blank [11] 21:09:20 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/02/02-svg-irc#T20-26-15 21:09:20 ACTION: Chris to propose wording for highlighting and :target [12] 21:09:20 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/02/02-svg-irc#T20-36-08 21:09:20 ACTION: Chris to change linking-uri-01 and linking-uri-02 to remove the requirement to highlight [13] 21:09:20 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/02/02-svg-irc#T20-37-36 21:09:20 ACTION: Cameron to unapprove painting-render-02-b [14] 21:09:20 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/02/02-svg-irc#T20-40-10 21:09:20 ACTION: Cameron to see how easy painting-stroke-10-t is to fix in Batik [15] 21:09:20 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/02/02-svg-irc#T20-46-26 21:09:20 ACTION: Cameron to review struct-dom-15 [16] 21:09:20 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/02/02-svg-irc#T20-50-20 21:09:20 ACTION: Patrick to review struct-dom-15 [17] 21:09:20 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/02/02-svg-irc#T20-51-27 21:09:20 ACTION: Cameron to look into off-colors in reference images on mac [18] 21:09:20 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/02/02-svg-irc#T20-55-20