IRC log of html-a11y on 2011-02-02

Timestamps are in UTC.

22:02:41 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #html-a11y
22:02:41 [RRSAgent]
logging to
22:03:13 [janina]
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22:04:51 [janina]
Meeting: HTML-A11Y telecon
22:04:51 [janina]
Chair: Janina_Sajka
22:04:51 [janina]
agenda: this
22:04:51 [janina]
agenda+ Identify Scribe
22:04:51 [janina]
agenda+ Actions Review
22:04:52 [janina]
agenda+ Time Tracks Feedback from Google
22:04:55 [janina]
agenda+ Are we done with Time Tracks?
22:04:57 [janina]
agenda+ Issue-152 Multitrack Resources
22:04:59 [janina]
agenda+ Synchronizing Multiple Binary Assets
22:05:01 [janina]
agenda+ The U.S. regulatory context for our work -- Judy Brewer
22:05:02 [janina]
agenda+ Poster Issue
22:05:04 [janina]
agenda+ Media Queries on Track
22:05:07 [janina]
agenda+ Other Business?
22:05:09 [janina]
agenda+ be done
22:05:11 [janina]
22:05:24 [janina]
zakim, next item
22:05:24 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "Identify Scribe" taken up [from janina]
22:05:29 [JF]
zakim, scribe is JF
22:05:29 [Zakim]
sorry, JF, I do not recognize a party named 'scribe'
22:05:45 [JF]
scribe: JF
22:05:54 [janina]
zakim, close item 1
22:05:54 [Zakim]
agendum 1, Identify Scribe, closed
22:05:56 [Zakim]
I see 10 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
22:05:58 [Zakim]
2. Actions Review [from janina]
22:06:00 [janina]
zakim, next item
22:06:00 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "Actions Review" taken up [from janina]
22:07:46 [janina]
zakim, close Action-98
22:07:46 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'close Action-98', janina
22:07:56 [silvia]
close Action-98
22:07:56 [trackbot]
ACTION-98 Create a statement with geoff to forward need for caption and description techniques for wcag closed
22:08:10 [janina]
rrsagent, Close Action-98
22:08:10 [RRSAgent]
I'm logging. I don't understand 'Close Action-98', janina. Try /msg RRSAgent help
22:09:05 [JF]
JF: re Action 98, posted draft to the list for CFC, and no feedback received
22:09:23 [JF]
should forward to the appropriate stake holders
22:10:08 [silvia]
22:10:08 [trackbot]
ACTION-88 -- Sean Hayes to review Media Fragment URI 1.0 -- due 2010-11-24 -- OPEN
22:10:08 [trackbot]
22:10:45 [silvia]
22:10:45 [trackbot]
ACTION-96 -- John Foliot to media Sub Team to revisit bug 11395 (Use media queries to select appropriate <track> elements) -- due 2011-01-06 -- OPEN
22:10:45 [trackbot]
22:10:47 [JF]
Re: Action 88 - will leave as is, needs to go back to PF
22:11:12 [Sean]
can you make the due date on 88 end of March
22:12:00 [JF]
Issue 96 reassign to Eric Carlson
22:12:20 [silvia]
close Action-97
22:12:20 [trackbot]
ACTION-97 Follow up on bug #9673 closed
22:12:21 [JF]
Issue 97 - to be closed
22:12:46 [silvia]
22:12:46 [trackbot]
ACTION-99 -- Janina Sajka to annotate 9452 with clear audio discovery and selection, as well as independent control of multiple playback tracks -- due 2011-01-19 -- OPEN
22:12:46 [trackbot]
22:12:48 [JF]
Issue 99
22:14:06 [janina]
zakim, next item
22:14:06 [Zakim]
agendum 3. "Time Tracks Feedback from Google" taken up [from janina]
22:14:55 [JF]
Ad agenda item - overview of FCC status/situation
22:15:18 [Judy]
22:16:03 [JF]
Judy: VPAAC - Video Programming Accessibility Action Commitee
22:16:48 [JF]
recommend to look at the Mission Statement (Word Doc:
22:18:36 [silvia]
zakim, mute me
22:18:36 [Zakim]
sorry, silvia, I don't know what conference this is
22:19:31 [JF]
meetings and actions with tight time-lines around video accessibility - captioning and descriptive audio
22:20:10 [JF]
some awareness of work that is happening at W3C
22:21:50 [JF]
Janina: interested to understand what this applies to, penalties, etc.
22:22:20 [JF]
Geoff: there will also be rules about amount of video description as well as requirements for emergency information
22:22:51 [JF]
they are also looking at getting television shows already captioned for on-air broadcast, must also move to the web
22:23:07 [JF]
this now involves SMPTE
22:23:28 [JF]
and SMPTE TT will likey emerge as a recommendation from the committee
22:23:39 [JF]
Janina: unless we find accessibility issues with this
22:24:23 [JF]
this will potentially inovolve massive amounts of programming (TV shows)
22:24:34 [JF]
including older content as well as future content
22:24:54 [JF]
22:25:17 [silvia]
22:26:05 [JF]
Judy: can we get differences between SMPTE TT (which is a derivitive of TTML)
22:26:16 [JF]
adds the ability to add background images, as well as binary data
22:26:35 [JF]
also some additional metadata content
22:28:01 [JF]
JF: are broadcasters aware of the browser vendors will or wont support?
22:28:14 [Judy]
22:29:49 [JF]
Sean: we can already support, doesn't require native support for this to work. will likely wait to see how the market plays out
22:30:10 [JF]
Silvia: SMPTE TT is a new format, how much content is currently available
22:30:50 [JF]
Geoff: there is not yet a lot of implementation, but there is one major support - UltraViolet - which is a DRM-like solution to view content from the cloud
22:31:18 [JF]
since SMPTE TT is based on TTML, there is potential for growth
22:31:31 [Judy]
22:31:36 [JF]
ack JFG
22:31:40 [JF]
ack JF
22:31:53 [silvia]
22:32:38 [JF]
Eric: is SMPTE a full profile subset of TTML?
22:32:42 [JF]
Sean: yes
22:33:22 [janina]
22:33:26 [janina]
ack j
22:33:53 [JF]
Judy: with this superset nature of SMPTE TT to what extent are the added features - things that align with accessibility user requirements that we've uncovered?
22:34:56 [JF]
Sean: the addition of images was from a request from asian territories
22:35:24 [JF]
they would rather not use actual fonts, and rather have images as more 'hand-drawn' character-sets
22:35:53 [JF]
the binary data is mostly for commercial requirements, for set-top boxes, etc.
22:36:08 [JF]
not really for user-benefit, but rather operator-benefit
22:37:08 [janina]
22:38:29 [JF]
Janina: one of the other things coming from the FCC work is requirements for devices being sold in the US market, there will be more of these types of devices, and more regs to follow
22:38:33 [kenny_j]
Need to drop off the call for another meeting. bye all.
22:39:52 [janina]
22:39:53 [JF]
Synopsis of questions re: time Tracks
22:40:50 [JF]
Silvia: the track element allows us to associate external caption files, sub-title files and other text files to videos
22:41:04 [JF]
Judy: is there a mechanism that can discover those assets
22:42:22 [JF]
22:42:47 [JF]
ERic: the track element is for things that have timing with them
22:43:17 [JF]
so if the description has timing info thta needs to be displayed in sync with the video, then it is appropriate to use track element
22:43:55 [janina]
22:43:59 [janina]
ack jf
22:44:01 [JF]
ack JF
22:45:39 [JF]
Sean: we've identified that there is no mechanism for labeling a transcript as such - there is no semantic link-up at this time
22:45:42 [gfreed]
geoff needs to go-- will read the minutes later this evening.
22:48:39 [silvia]
22:48:44 [JF]
Judy: a case can be made that access to a transcript would serve certain user needs for a11y
22:49:38 [JF]
22:49:40 [janina]
22:51:55 [JF]
Janina: we've identified that if there is timing data, that it should be linked to the video, but even if a transcript has no timing it may need to be programmatically associated to the video none-the-less
22:52:46 [JF]
Judy: the order of presentation /positioning
22:52:52 [JF]
that has been a problem in the past
22:53:21 [JF]
if we are trying to support multple media formats - foolproof discoverablility and sharability
22:57:44 [janina]
22:57:50 [janina]
ack s
22:57:51 [janina]
ack j
22:57:54 [silvia]
23:04:40 [JF]
discussion about discoverability versus mechanisms for delivery
23:05:21 [JF]
ERic: discussion is not that there is disagreement on this, but how we deliver it - in sync (with time)
23:05:40 [Judy]
23:05:53 [JF]
it makes no sense to try and repurpose track and source for non-time-aligned content
23:06:09 [JF]
how does the content author package it
23:06:22 [JF]
Judy: so do we need another element?
23:06:32 [silvia]
23:06:38 [silvia]
23:06:45 [JF]
given that we are under a very tight timeline at this point?
23:07:06 [janina]
23:07:10 [janina]
ack j
23:07:40 [JF]
eric: don't think we need a different/new element
23:07:57 [JF]
echos silvia's observation thta at transcript would be avialable for all users
23:08:03 [JF]
23:08:32 [Judy]
eric: you could just do the association with an attribute
23:08:47 [Judy]
jf: that would take us down the same path as with longdesc
23:09:16 [Judy]
...we need to be able to package the transcript in some way that makes it available to users, not just visible on screen
23:09:49 [silvia]
23:10:26 [JF]
Janina: bottom line is that we do not have a means of associating a transcript to a the video resource
23:10:32 [JF]
whether an element or an attribute
23:12:15 [JF]
silvia are you on mute?
23:12:40 [janina]
Silvia, we don't hear you
23:12:43 [Sean]
try redialling. not hearing you
23:14:31 [Judy]
23:14:44 [JF]
ack jf
23:15:14 [JF]
Judy: we should record everything we can in terms of what is still open
23:15:40 [Judy]
ack ju
23:16:45 [JF]
Silvia: we should have an email discussion on transcript
23:16:57 [JF]
(JF will check for that bug and post to the list)
23:17:31 [MikeSmith]
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23:20:05 [JF]
eric: when the durations are not the same - it's not an issue when they are not the same, but rather when the internal timing information are not the same
23:20:20 [JF]
when segments of one don't exactly overlap segments of the other
23:20:35 [JF]
there is no way of describing those associations
23:20:50 [JF]
Silvia: on the multi-track API
23:21:25 [JF]
summarize from discussions and an email thread from last fall - will summarize into a wiki page for further discussion
23:21:38 [JF]
we re-start a new mail thread
23:23:35 [JF]
Janina, another isue is if the user wants to control the secondary content - change font size, colors, adjust audio levels, etc.
23:24:16 [JF]
Janina: on one hand, this is very specific to Operating Systems
23:24:36 [Judy]
23:24:41 [Judy]
23:24:43 [JF]
but what we should be discussing is a systematic way for authors to create content, and signify this to the browser
23:25:57 [Judy]
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23:26:32 [Judy]
23:27:58 [janina]
23:28:01 [janina]
ack j
23:31:08 [JF]
zakim, bye
23:31:08 [Zakim]
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23:31:28 [JF]
rssagent, make log public
23:31:51 [JF]
rssagent, make log public
23:32:14 [JF]
rssagent, make minutes
23:32:25 [silvia]
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23:32:35 [JF]
rrsagent, make log public
23:32:44 [JF]
rrsagent, make minutes
23:32:44 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate JF
23:40:29 [davidb]
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23:57:37 [gfreed]
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