IRC log of html-xml on 2011-02-01

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:33:40 [RRSAgent]
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14:33:40 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/02/01-html-xml-irc
14:33:54 [Norm]
zakim, this will be tag_xml
14:33:54 [Zakim]
I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, Norm
14:34:04 [Norm]
zakim, list conferences
14:34:04 [Zakim]
I see Team_(RevCadence)9:00AM, Team_(t-and-s)14:00Z, TAG_(AWWSW)9:00AM active
14:34:07 [Zakim]
also scheduled at this time are INC_SSN()9:00AM, MM_MMI(ITesting)9:00AM, MWI_BPWG()9:30AM, WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)9:00AM
14:34:56 [Norm]
zakim, this will be xml_(tag tf)
14:34:56 [Zakim]
ok, Norm; I see XML_(TAG TF)10:00AM scheduled to start in 26 minutes
14:50:46 [jcowan]
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14:54:51 [Norm]
zakim, what's the passcode?
14:54:51 [Zakim]
the conference code is 9483 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), Norm
14:54:57 [Zakim]
XML_(TAG TF)10:00AM has now started
14:55:04 [Zakim]
+Norm
14:56:25 [Norm]
Norm has changed the topic to: HTML/XML TF meets 1 February, http://www.w3.org/2010/html-xml/2011/02/01-agenda (Norm)
14:57:00 [Norm]
Meeting: HTML/XML Task Force
14:57:00 [Norm]
Date: 1 February 2011
14:57:00 [Norm]
Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2010/html-xml/2011/02/01-agenda
14:57:00 [Norm]
Meeting: 6
14:57:00 [Norm]
Chair: Norm
14:57:01 [Norm]
Scribe: Norm
14:57:03 [Norm]
ScribeNick: Norm
14:57:07 [Norm]
rrsagent, set logs world-visible
14:57:13 [Zakim]
+John_Cowan
14:57:16 [Norm]
Regrets: Noah
15:00:39 [Zakim]
+??P21
15:00:53 [Norm]
zakim, ??p21 is Henri
15:00:55 [Zakim]
+Henri; got it
15:00:58 [Norm]
zakim, henri is hsivonen
15:01:01 [Zakim]
+hsivonen; got it
15:01:37 [Zakim]
+Yves
15:04:35 [Zakim]
+[Microsoft]
15:05:00 [Norm]
zakim, +Microsoft is MChampion
15:05:01 [Zakim]
sorry, Norm, I do not recognize a party named '+Microsoft'
15:05:11 [Norm]
zakim, [Microsoft is MChampion
15:05:11 [Zakim]
+MChampion; got it
15:05:50 [Norm]
zakim, who's on the phone?
15:05:50 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Norm, John_Cowan, hsivonen, Yves, MChampion
15:06:23 [Norm]
Present: Norm, John, Henri, Yves, Michael
15:06:29 [Norm]
Topic: Accept this agenda?
15:06:29 [Norm]
http://www.w3.org/2010/html-xml/2011/02/01-agenda
15:06:32 [Norm]
Accepted.
15:06:37 [Norm]
Topic: Accept minutes from the previous meeting?
15:06:37 [Norm]
-> http://www.w3.org/2010/html-xml/2011/01/25-minutes
15:06:40 [Norm]
Accepted.
15:06:44 [anne]
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15:07:09 [anne]
Zakim, passcode?
15:07:09 [Zakim]
the conference code is 9483 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), anne
15:07:21 [Norm]
The task force notes with regret Michael Kay's decision to resign from the task force.
15:07:27 [Norm]
We thank him for his efforts.
15:07:48 [Norm]
Topic: Use case 06
15:07:49 [Zakim]
+??P32
15:08:04 [Norm]
Zakim, ??p32 is anne
15:08:04 [Zakim]
+anne; got it
15:08:44 [Norm]
Norm: That was Michael Kay's but he's not likely to finish it now.
15:08:52 [hsivonen]
q+
15:09:03 [Norm]
MChampion: I was never sure why that was a separate use case from case 4, XML in HTML.
15:09:06 [Norm]
...What's special?
15:09:21 [Norm]
ack hsivonen
15:09:41 [Norm]
Henri: I think one of the main differences between XForms and other XML is that an island is generally understood to be one subtree somewhere.
15:10:07 [Norm]
...SVG adn MathML are self-contained subtrees. XForms intermingles with the source tree and the semantics.
15:10:09 [Norm]
s/adn/and/
15:10:36 [Norm]
Norm: I don't feel competent to speak about XForms, does anyone?
15:10:51 [Norm]
MChampion: I'll take a stab at it.
15:11:31 [Norm]
...Was there any discussion of a solution?
15:11:48 [Norm]
...Other than namespaces?
15:11:55 [hsivonen]
q+
15:12:01 [Norm]
John: Yes: don't. Politely described as "managing expectations".
15:12:03 [Norm]
ack hsivonen
15:12:32 [Norm]
Henri: Specifically about XForms, rather than the general issue of widespread vocabulary mixing, there are a couple of solutions.
15:13:11 [Norm]
...IBM and web backplane have a JavaScript solution that serves invalid HTML and then fixes it up with JavaScript
15:13:19 [Norm]
...Orbeon and Lotus also have server-side solutions.
15:14:33 [Norm]
Norm: There are also client-side solutions that work in a similar way, such as XSLTForms
15:16:10 [Norm]
MChampion: Sorry to interrupt the agenda, but I see the TAG is talking about this next week, does anyone know what that's about?
15:16:35 [Norm]
Norm: Oh, sorry, I should have said. Since their f2f meeting is nearby, I agreed to come in and give an update. I don't think there's likely to be more to it than that, but I couldn't say for sure.
15:16:46 [Yves]
the TAG agenda is indeed mostly a status report
15:17:19 [Norm]
Topic: Use case 7: Forgiving error handling for XHTML-style markup
15:17:27 [Norm]
Norm: I think this was Noah's new one from last week.
15:17:44 [Norm]
Norm: I think this nets out to XML with error recovery or XHTML with error recovery.
15:18:00 [Norm]
Anne: His use case was more a generic one of mine.
15:18:57 [Norm]
Norm: It could be done, but I'm not sure what else to say. It couldn't be the same error recover as HTML, I assume, because it would know less about the tags.
15:19:01 [Norm]
Anne: Yes, that sounds right to me.,
15:19:06 [Zakim]
+TimBL
15:20:14 [Norm]
Topic: Changes to other use cases in the past week
15:20:56 [Norm]
MChampion: I meant to update use case 2, but I haven't gotten to it yet.
15:21:33 [hsivonen]
http://hsivonen.iki.fi/test/moz/xml-data-block.html
15:21:59 [Norm]
Henri: For research and documentation purposes, I did a small demo of XML in HTML using the script tag.
15:22:29 [Norm]
Norm: Thanks, Henri, that's very cool. You said it works in latest Firefox, Opera, Chrome, Safari, and IE9.
15:22:40 [Norm]
Henri: The latest version of all the top browsers.
15:22:55 [Norm]
Topic: Next steps?
15:24:11 [Norm]
Norm: I started with use cases because it wasn't clear what else we could do. Now we have the use cases and solutions, to some extent, for them.
15:24:35 [Norm]
...Is the answer to the question what is the problem, "there is no problem."
15:24:44 [Norm]
John: There are solutions but they aren't written down.
15:24:52 [Norm]
Henri: I think writing them down would be a good next step.
15:25:32 [Norm]
Norm: Does anyone have any other thoughts for next steps?
15:25:35 [Norm]
John: We need an editor.
15:25:39 [Norm]
Norm: I'll take a first stab.
15:25:48 [Norm]
s/stab/stab at that./
15:25:59 [timbl]
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15:26:41 [Norm]
Anne: The use cases are quite disjoint; they don't really overlap that much; they're all different kind of problems.
15:26:48 [Norm]
John: True
15:27:19 [Norm]
Norm: Yes, I think there's an editorial challenge there, but there are different problems and they'll have to be described differently.
15:27:38 [Norm]
Henri: I think the nature of the use cases we found happens to be that they are rather disjoint. That's just the nature of the beast.
15:28:39 [Norm]
Topic: Any other business?
15:28:53 [Norm]
Norm: I propose we meet in two weeks, on 15 February, with, I hope, a document to review.
15:29:07 [Norm]
Adjourned.
15:29:10 [Zakim]
-TimBL
15:29:12 [Zakim]
-John_Cowan
15:29:12 [Zakim]
-anne
15:29:14 [Zakim]
-Norm
15:29:14 [Zakim]
-hsivonen
15:29:15 [Zakim]
-Yves
15:29:16 [Zakim]
-MChampion
15:29:16 [Zakim]
XML_(TAG TF)10:00AM has ended
15:29:17 [Zakim]
Attendees were Norm, John_Cowan, hsivonen, Yves, [Microsoft], MChampion, anne, TimBL
15:29:18 [Norm]
rrsagent, draft minutes
15:29:18 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/02/01-html-xml-minutes.html Norm
15:38:03 [jcowan_]
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15:40:30 [Zakim]
XML_(TAG TF)10:00AM has now started
15:40:37 [Zakim]
+Kurt
15:41:04 [Zakim]
-Kurt
15:41:05 [Zakim]
XML_(TAG TF)10:00AM has ended
15:41:05 [Zakim]
Attendees were Kurt
16:09:17 [Norm]
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16:27:47 [Norm]
rrsagent, bye
16:27:47 [RRSAgent]
I see no action items
16:27:49 [Norm]
zakim, bye