14:33:40 RRSAgent has joined #html-xml
14:33:40 logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/02/01-html-xml-irc
14:33:54 zakim, this will be tag_xml
14:33:54 I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, Norm
14:34:04 zakim, list conferences
14:34:04 I see Team_(RevCadence)9:00AM, Team_(t-and-s)14:00Z, TAG_(AWWSW)9:00AM active
14:34:07 also scheduled at this time are INC_SSN()9:00AM, MM_MMI(ITesting)9:00AM, MWI_BPWG()9:30AM, WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)9:00AM
14:34:56 zakim, this will be xml_(tag tf)
14:34:56 ok, Norm; I see XML_(TAG TF)10:00AM scheduled to start in 26 minutes
14:50:46 jcowan has joined #html-xml
14:54:51 zakim, what's the passcode?
14:54:51 the conference code is 9483 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), Norm
14:54:57 XML_(TAG TF)10:00AM has now started
14:55:04 +Norm
14:56:25 Norm has changed the topic to: HTML/XML TF meets 1 February, http://www.w3.org/2010/html-xml/2011/02/01-agenda (Norm)
14:57:00 Meeting: HTML/XML Task Force
14:57:00 Date: 1 February 2011
14:57:00 Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2010/html-xml/2011/02/01-agenda
14:57:00 Meeting: 6
14:57:00 Chair: Norm
14:57:01 Scribe: Norm
14:57:03 ScribeNick: Norm
14:57:07 rrsagent, set logs world-visible
14:57:13 +John_Cowan
14:57:16 Regrets: Noah
15:00:39 +??P21
15:00:53 zakim, ??p21 is Henri
15:00:55 +Henri; got it
15:00:58 zakim, henri is hsivonen
15:01:01 +hsivonen; got it
15:01:37 +Yves
15:04:35 +[Microsoft]
15:05:00 zakim, +Microsoft is MChampion
15:05:01 sorry, Norm, I do not recognize a party named '+Microsoft'
15:05:11 zakim, [Microsoft is MChampion
15:05:11 +MChampion; got it
15:05:50 zakim, who's on the phone?
15:05:50 On the phone I see Norm, John_Cowan, hsivonen, Yves, MChampion
15:06:23 Present: Norm, John, Henri, Yves, Michael
15:06:29 Topic: Accept this agenda?
15:06:29 http://www.w3.org/2010/html-xml/2011/02/01-agenda
15:06:32 Accepted.
15:06:37 Topic: Accept minutes from the previous meeting?
15:06:37 -> http://www.w3.org/2010/html-xml/2011/01/25-minutes
15:06:40 Accepted.
15:06:44 anne has joined #html-xml
15:07:09 Zakim, passcode?
15:07:09 the conference code is 9483 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), anne
15:07:21 The task force notes with regret Michael Kay's decision to resign from the task force.
15:07:27 We thank him for his efforts.
15:07:48 Topic: Use case 06
15:07:49 +??P32
15:08:04 Zakim, ??p32 is anne
15:08:04 +anne; got it
15:08:44 Norm: That was Michael Kay's but he's not likely to finish it now.
15:08:52 q+
15:09:03 MChampion: I was never sure why that was a separate use case from case 4, XML in HTML.
15:09:06 ...What's special?
15:09:21 ack hsivonen
15:09:41 Henri: I think one of the main differences between XForms and other XML is that an island is generally understood to be one subtree somewhere.
15:10:07 ...SVG adn MathML are self-contained subtrees. XForms intermingles with the source tree and the semantics.
15:10:09 s/adn/and/
15:10:36 Norm: I don't feel competent to speak about XForms, does anyone?
15:10:51 MChampion: I'll take a stab at it.
15:11:31 ...Was there any discussion of a solution?
15:11:48 ...Other than namespaces?
15:11:55 q+
15:12:01 John: Yes: don't. Politely described as "managing expectations".
15:12:03 ack hsivonen
15:12:32 Henri: Specifically about XForms, rather than the general issue of widespread vocabulary mixing, there are a couple of solutions.
15:13:11 ...IBM and web backplane have a JavaScript solution that serves invalid HTML and then fixes it up with JavaScript
15:13:19 ...Orbeon and Lotus also have server-side solutions.
15:14:33 Norm: There are also client-side solutions that work in a similar way, such as XSLTForms
15:16:10 MChampion: Sorry to interrupt the agenda, but I see the TAG is talking about this next week, does anyone know what that's about?
15:16:35 Norm: Oh, sorry, I should have said. Since their f2f meeting is nearby, I agreed to come in and give an update. I don't think there's likely to be more to it than that, but I couldn't say for sure.
15:16:46 the TAG agenda is indeed mostly a status report
15:17:19 Topic: Use case 7: Forgiving error handling for XHTML-style markup
15:17:27 Norm: I think this was Noah's new one from last week.
15:17:44 Norm: I think this nets out to XML with error recovery or XHTML with error recovery.
15:18:00 Anne: His use case was more a generic one of mine.
15:18:57 Norm: It could be done, but I'm not sure what else to say. It couldn't be the same error recover as HTML, I assume, because it would know less about the tags.
15:19:01 Anne: Yes, that sounds right to me.,
15:19:06 +TimBL
15:20:14 Topic: Changes to other use cases in the past week
15:20:56 MChampion: I meant to update use case 2, but I haven't gotten to it yet.
15:21:33 http://hsivonen.iki.fi/test/moz/xml-data-block.html
15:21:59 Henri: For research and documentation purposes, I did a small demo of XML in HTML using the script tag.
15:22:29 Norm: Thanks, Henri, that's very cool. You said it works in latest Firefox, Opera, Chrome, Safari, and IE9.
15:22:40 Henri: The latest version of all the top browsers.
15:22:55 Topic: Next steps?
15:24:11 Norm: I started with use cases because it wasn't clear what else we could do. Now we have the use cases and solutions, to some extent, for them.
15:24:35 ...Is the answer to the question what is the problem, "there is no problem."
15:24:44 John: There are solutions but they aren't written down.
15:24:52 Henri: I think writing them down would be a good next step.
15:25:32 Norm: Does anyone have any other thoughts for next steps?
15:25:35 John: We need an editor.
15:25:39 Norm: I'll take a first stab.
15:25:48 s/stab/stab at that./
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15:26:41 Anne: The use cases are quite disjoint; they don't really overlap that much; they're all different kind of problems.
15:26:48 John: True
15:27:19 Norm: Yes, I think there's an editorial challenge there, but there are different problems and they'll have to be described differently.
15:27:38 Henri: I think the nature of the use cases we found happens to be that they are rather disjoint. That's just the nature of the beast.
15:28:39 Topic: Any other business?
15:28:53 Norm: I propose we meet in two weeks, on 15 February, with, I hope, a document to review.
15:29:07 Adjourned.
15:29:10 -TimBL
15:29:12 -John_Cowan
15:29:12 -anne
15:29:14 -Norm
15:29:14 -hsivonen
15:29:15 -Yves
15:29:16 -MChampion
15:29:16 XML_(TAG TF)10:00AM has ended
15:29:17 Attendees were Norm, John_Cowan, hsivonen, Yves, [Microsoft], MChampion, anne, TimBL
15:29:18 rrsagent, draft minutes
15:29:18 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/02/01-html-xml-minutes.html Norm
15:38:03 jcowan_ has joined #html-xml
15:40:30 XML_(TAG TF)10:00AM has now started
15:40:37 +Kurt
15:41:04 -Kurt
15:41:05 XML_(TAG TF)10:00AM has ended
15:41:05 Attendees were Kurt
16:09:17 Norm has joined #html-xml
16:27:47 rrsagent, bye
16:27:47 I see no action items
16:27:49 zakim, bye