14:33:40 RRSAgent has joined #html-xml 14:33:40 logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/02/01-html-xml-irc 14:33:54 zakim, this will be tag_xml 14:33:54 I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, Norm 14:34:04 zakim, list conferences 14:34:04 I see Team_(RevCadence)9:00AM, Team_(t-and-s)14:00Z, TAG_(AWWSW)9:00AM active 14:34:07 also scheduled at this time are INC_SSN()9:00AM, MM_MMI(ITesting)9:00AM, MWI_BPWG()9:30AM, WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)9:00AM 14:34:56 zakim, this will be xml_(tag tf) 14:34:56 ok, Norm; I see XML_(TAG TF)10:00AM scheduled to start in 26 minutes 14:50:46 jcowan has joined #html-xml 14:54:51 zakim, what's the passcode? 14:54:51 the conference code is 9483 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), Norm 14:54:57 XML_(TAG TF)10:00AM has now started 14:55:04 +Norm 14:56:25 Norm has changed the topic to: HTML/XML TF meets 1 February, http://www.w3.org/2010/html-xml/2011/02/01-agenda (Norm) 14:57:00 Meeting: HTML/XML Task Force 14:57:00 Date: 1 February 2011 14:57:00 Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2010/html-xml/2011/02/01-agenda 14:57:00 Meeting: 6 14:57:00 Chair: Norm 14:57:01 Scribe: Norm 14:57:03 ScribeNick: Norm 14:57:07 rrsagent, set logs world-visible 14:57:13 +John_Cowan 14:57:16 Regrets: Noah 15:00:39 +??P21 15:00:53 zakim, ??p21 is Henri 15:00:55 +Henri; got it 15:00:58 zakim, henri is hsivonen 15:01:01 +hsivonen; got it 15:01:37 +Yves 15:04:35 +[Microsoft] 15:05:00 zakim, +Microsoft is MChampion 15:05:01 sorry, Norm, I do not recognize a party named '+Microsoft' 15:05:11 zakim, [Microsoft is MChampion 15:05:11 +MChampion; got it 15:05:50 zakim, who's on the phone? 15:05:50 On the phone I see Norm, John_Cowan, hsivonen, Yves, MChampion 15:06:23 Present: Norm, John, Henri, Yves, Michael 15:06:29 Topic: Accept this agenda? 15:06:29 http://www.w3.org/2010/html-xml/2011/02/01-agenda 15:06:32 Accepted. 15:06:37 Topic: Accept minutes from the previous meeting? 15:06:37 -> http://www.w3.org/2010/html-xml/2011/01/25-minutes 15:06:40 Accepted. 15:06:44 anne has joined #html-xml 15:07:09 Zakim, passcode? 15:07:09 the conference code is 9483 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), anne 15:07:21 The task force notes with regret Michael Kay's decision to resign from the task force. 15:07:27 We thank him for his efforts. 15:07:48 Topic: Use case 06 15:07:49 +??P32 15:08:04 Zakim, ??p32 is anne 15:08:04 +anne; got it 15:08:44 Norm: That was Michael Kay's but he's not likely to finish it now. 15:08:52 q+ 15:09:03 MChampion: I was never sure why that was a separate use case from case 4, XML in HTML. 15:09:06 ...What's special? 15:09:21 ack hsivonen 15:09:41 Henri: I think one of the main differences between XForms and other XML is that an island is generally understood to be one subtree somewhere. 15:10:07 ...SVG adn MathML are self-contained subtrees. XForms intermingles with the source tree and the semantics. 15:10:09 s/adn/and/ 15:10:36 Norm: I don't feel competent to speak about XForms, does anyone? 15:10:51 MChampion: I'll take a stab at it. 15:11:31 ...Was there any discussion of a solution? 15:11:48 ...Other than namespaces? 15:11:55 q+ 15:12:01 John: Yes: don't. Politely described as "managing expectations". 15:12:03 ack hsivonen 15:12:32 Henri: Specifically about XForms, rather than the general issue of widespread vocabulary mixing, there are a couple of solutions. 15:13:11 ...IBM and web backplane have a JavaScript solution that serves invalid HTML and then fixes it up with JavaScript 15:13:19 ...Orbeon and Lotus also have server-side solutions. 15:14:33 Norm: There are also client-side solutions that work in a similar way, such as XSLTForms 15:16:10 MChampion: Sorry to interrupt the agenda, but I see the TAG is talking about this next week, does anyone know what that's about? 15:16:35 Norm: Oh, sorry, I should have said. Since their f2f meeting is nearby, I agreed to come in and give an update. I don't think there's likely to be more to it than that, but I couldn't say for sure. 15:16:46 the TAG agenda is indeed mostly a status report 15:17:19 Topic: Use case 7: Forgiving error handling for XHTML-style markup 15:17:27 Norm: I think this was Noah's new one from last week. 15:17:44 Norm: I think this nets out to XML with error recovery or XHTML with error recovery. 15:18:00 Anne: His use case was more a generic one of mine. 15:18:57 Norm: It could be done, but I'm not sure what else to say. It couldn't be the same error recover as HTML, I assume, because it would know less about the tags. 15:19:01 Anne: Yes, that sounds right to me., 15:19:06 +TimBL 15:20:14 Topic: Changes to other use cases in the past week 15:20:56 MChampion: I meant to update use case 2, but I haven't gotten to it yet. 15:21:33 http://hsivonen.iki.fi/test/moz/xml-data-block.html 15:21:59 Henri: For research and documentation purposes, I did a small demo of XML in HTML using the script tag. 15:22:29 Norm: Thanks, Henri, that's very cool. You said it works in latest Firefox, Opera, Chrome, Safari, and IE9. 15:22:40 Henri: The latest version of all the top browsers. 15:22:55 Topic: Next steps? 15:24:11 Norm: I started with use cases because it wasn't clear what else we could do. Now we have the use cases and solutions, to some extent, for them. 15:24:35 ...Is the answer to the question what is the problem, "there is no problem." 15:24:44 John: There are solutions but they aren't written down. 15:24:52 Henri: I think writing them down would be a good next step. 15:25:32 Norm: Does anyone have any other thoughts for next steps? 15:25:35 John: We need an editor. 15:25:39 Norm: I'll take a first stab. 15:25:48 s/stab/stab at that./ 15:25:59 timbl has joined #html-xml 15:26:41 Anne: The use cases are quite disjoint; they don't really overlap that much; they're all different kind of problems. 15:26:48 John: True 15:27:19 Norm: Yes, I think there's an editorial challenge there, but there are different problems and they'll have to be described differently. 15:27:38 Henri: I think the nature of the use cases we found happens to be that they are rather disjoint. That's just the nature of the beast. 15:28:39 Topic: Any other business? 15:28:53 Norm: I propose we meet in two weeks, on 15 February, with, I hope, a document to review. 15:29:07 Adjourned. 15:29:10 -TimBL 15:29:12 -John_Cowan 15:29:12 -anne 15:29:14 -Norm 15:29:14 -hsivonen 15:29:15 -Yves 15:29:16 -MChampion 15:29:16 XML_(TAG TF)10:00AM has ended 15:29:17 Attendees were Norm, John_Cowan, hsivonen, Yves, [Microsoft], MChampion, anne, TimBL 15:29:18 rrsagent, draft minutes 15:29:18 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/02/01-html-xml-minutes.html Norm 15:38:03 jcowan_ has joined #html-xml 15:40:30 XML_(TAG TF)10:00AM has now started 15:40:37 +Kurt 15:41:04 -Kurt 15:41:05 XML_(TAG TF)10:00AM has ended 15:41:05 Attendees were Kurt 16:09:17 Norm has joined #html-xml 16:27:47 rrsagent, bye 16:27:47 I see no action items 16:27:49 zakim, bye