<shawn> shadi - wanns join to hear abotu CODE?
<sinarmaya> I think that I'm mute
<shawn> zakim who is here?
<sylvie> bad connection i try to call again
<Zakim> shawn, you wanted to ask about scope - beyond web?
<shawn> saz; business case - explaining the market (to students)
<scribe> scribe: shadi
Liam: please be candid
... collected stuff already out there
... primarily by Tim Berners-Lee
... main goal is to get people interested in the sub-pages
... to make them compelling to readers
... and explain their importance
... then identified that there are things that apply to both browsers and authoring tools
... so took that in the main page and the sub-pages got shorter
Sandi: felt they are very
engaging and emtional
... come from the heart
... contrast to other pages
... wondering if it needs to be grouped differently
... some people may not want to read it the way it is presented
... but i personally loved it
Liam: interesting point
... could be tweaked
Sandi: maybe shorter paragraphs
... not the content, just the presentation
Jeanne: loved it too
... but third paragraph may have negative impact on some readers
... may need a little work on that part but otherwise good
Shawn: other W3C pages on this
level have 1-2 sentences at the top as a brief
... mainly to send people to the more relevant sub-pages
Liam: certainly was something
that concerned me
... supposed to be a navigation page but became a content page
... seemed important to inspire developers to go read this stuff
... typically developers may not recognize the importance at first
... inspired by the "accessibility page" which is also explanatory
... other idea is to structure by audience to address previous issue
... but that is not a popular technique in terms of usability
Shawn: let's explore that
... who are our audiences?
... tool developers
... people procuring tools
... policy developers
shadi: tool users?
<shawn> saz: tool users - you have other options
shadi: to educate them that there are options
Helle: agree with Shadi
... procurers are often not the users
... users may have other interests than the procurers
Liam: need to decide where we are
going to direct people to
... we have specifications for the tool developers
... but not sure what to do with the other audiences
... unlee we want to write new resources
<shawn> Selecting and Using Authoring Tools for Web Accessibility http://www.w3.org/WAI/impl/software
Shawn: we have some old
... that could serve as drafts
Sandi: have discussion about
security in UK
... need to educate responsible people on ICT requirements
Liam: so really, the basic question for the other audiences is "why should i use an atag or uaag complaint tool"?
Shadi: we have several specs at
... maybe enough to just mention that there are standards
... even if non-techies will not follow these links
Liam: was concerned that it is getting too accessibility-centric
Shawn: starting a stub and people will probably add other specs to it
Liam: issue is the breadth of
resources to link to
... bascially writing and reading makes the entire web
Shawn: WAI-ARIA has authoring and browser aspects
<shawn> Device Independence Authoring http://www.w3.org/TR/#tr_Device_Independence_Authoring
Shadi: maybe group or select a
handful of specs that clearly relate to the user-side of
... and send people to more exhaustive listings
Liam: or spec of the month?
... is there a full listing somewhere?
Sandi: difficulty getting
official information about when a spec can be used
... not visible from the site right now
[side-discussion on example of WAI-ARIA]
Liam: could express in terms of "must", "should", and "could"
Shadi: think that this is
... should get people to judge relative importances for themselves
Shawn: need to identify what we
can say to browser vendors, procurers, etc
... basically have two groups: developers and "users"
... want to catch them early and encourage them to keep reading
Liam: had difficulty with this
... many different types of "authoring tools"
<jeanne> Just a minor point - "The best authoring tools require less technical knowledge from their users" is unnecessarily controversial. I'm sure Eclipse would consider themselves a "best" authoring tool, but certainly is not easy to use for novices.
Liam: tried to give some concrete
examples of why this is important
... message important to all audiences
Shawn: what does a procurer get from this page?
Liam: issues that users may observe
Shawn: wonder if they get that
... also not sure if they came through the bucket page
Liam: maybe flip "what" and "how"?
Shawn: basically to say "there are guidelines to follow" but more interestingly than that
Jeanne: not sure the examples
added a lot
... not sure worth their effort
Liam: would love feedback on stronger examples
Sandi: maybe something about who
... not sure if this information exists
<sinarmaya> And example is HERA FFX ;-)
Jeanne: sometimes extensions to browsers help improve accessibility
<sinarmaya> is a accessibility review tool
<sinarmaya> sorry, but our server is out right now :(
Shadi: just caution that extensions alone do not fix all accessibility issues
Shadi: maybe more descriptive rather than exhaustive listing?
Shawn: AUWG will provide an
... might sometimes be enough to say "social media"
<Zakim> shawn, you wanted to say how abotu start with really simple example - even dialog box for alt
Shawn: example is quite advanced, wonder if you want a more basic one
<shawn> reminder to bring any issues to EOWG for discussion
Shawn: WAI-ARIA in last
... let me know if you have comments
... or things for EOWG discussion
<shawn> thanks for scribing shadi, i'll try to get someone to cleam them up
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.135 of Date: 2009/03/02 03:52:20 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/less/lee/ Found Scribe: shadi Inferring ScribeNick: shadi Default Present: +1.512.797.aaaa, Shawn, Shadi, +1.650.348.aabb, +500.008.aacc, jennifer, +184.108.40.206.aadd, sylvie, sandi, Emmanuelle, Sharron, Liam, +44.453.946.aaee, Helle, Jeanne, +1.915.014.aaff, sinarmaya, +1.862.012.aagg Present: Sharron Shawn Shadi Jennifer Sylvie Sandi Emmanuelle Liam Helle Jeanne WARNING: Replacing previous Regrets list. (Old list: ...) Use 'Regrets+ ... ' if you meant to add people without replacing the list, such as: <dbooth> Regrets+ Ian, P Regrets: Ian P Got date from IRC log name: 28 Jan 2011 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2011/01/28-eo-minutes.html People with action items:[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]