IRC log of lld on 2011-01-20

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:50:34 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #lld
14:50:34 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/01/20-lld-irc
14:50:43 [emma]
zakim, this will be LLD
14:50:43 [Zakim]
ok, emma; I see INC_LLDXG()10:00AM scheduled to start in 10 minutes
14:53:12 [emma]
rrsagent, please make record public
14:54:19 [emma]
Meeting: LLD XG
14:54:29 [emma]
Chair: Emmanuelle
14:54:38 [TomB]
TomB has joined #lld
14:54:42 [emma]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2011Jan/0104.html
14:55:06 [emma]
Previous: 2011-01-13 http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/01/13-lld-minutes.html
14:55:46 [emma]
Regrets: Ray, Jodi, Monica, Uldis, Kai, William, Lars, Ross
14:56:20 [emma]
rrsagent, please draft minutes
14:56:20 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/01/20-lld-minutes.html emma
14:56:43 [emma]
rrsagent, please make record public*
14:56:44 [GordonD]
GordonD has joined #lld
14:56:53 [emma]
rrsagent, please make record public
14:57:37 [Zakim]
INC_LLDXG()10:00AM has now started
14:57:43 [antoine]
antoine has joined #lld
14:57:44 [Zakim]
+??P8
14:57:49 [Zakim]
+michaelp
14:57:51 [TomB]
zakim, ??P8 is TomB
14:57:51 [Zakim]
+TomB; got it
14:57:56 [AlexanderH]
AlexanderH has joined #lld
14:57:59 [jeff_]
zakim, michaelp is me
14:57:59 [Zakim]
+jeff_; got it
14:58:15 [Zakim]
+??P10
14:58:22 [antoine]
zakim, ??P10 is me
14:58:22 [Zakim]
+antoine; got it
14:58:27 [Zakim]
+emma
14:58:41 [markva]
markva has joined #lld
14:58:53 [Zakim]
+[LC]
14:58:57 [michaelp]
michaelp has joined #lld
14:59:04 [antoine]
rrsagent, please draft minutes
14:59:04 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/01/20-lld-minutes.html antoine
14:59:08 [Zakim]
+??P17
14:59:10 [antoine]
zakim, LC is kefo
14:59:10 [Zakim]
+kefo; got it
14:59:17 [Zakim]
+??P13
14:59:21 [antoine]
zakim, ??P17 is kcoyle
14:59:21 [Zakim]
+kcoyle; got it
14:59:24 [kosuke]
kosuke has joined #lld
14:59:30 [antoine]
zakim, ??P13 is AlexanderH
14:59:30 [Zakim]
+AlexanderH; got it
14:59:39 [kefo]
kefo has joined #lld
14:59:44 [jeff_]
zakim, mute me
14:59:44 [Zakim]
jeff_ should now be muted
14:59:52 [Zakim]
+jeff_.a
14:59:54 [kefo]
zakim, LC is me
14:59:54 [Zakim]
sorry, kefo, I do not recognize a party named 'LC'
14:59:57 [Zakim]
+markva
15:00:04 [marcia]
marcia has joined #lld
15:00:26 [kefo]
zakim, mute me
15:00:26 [Zakim]
kefo should now be muted
15:00:32 [Zakim]
+??P25
15:00:45 [antoine]
zakim, ??P25 is GordonD
15:00:45 [Zakim]
+GordonD; got it
15:00:52 [antoine]
zakim, who is here?
15:00:52 [Zakim]
On the phone I see TomB, jeff_ (muted), antoine, emma, kefo (muted), kcoyle, AlexanderH, michaelp (muted), markva (muted), GordonD
15:00:55 [Zakim]
On IRC I see marcia, kefo, kosuke, michaelp, markva, AlexanderH, antoine, GordonD, TomB, RRSAgent, Zakim, kcoyle, emma, jeff_, uldis, edsu, digikim
15:01:51 [antoine]
zakim, pick a victim
15:01:51 [Zakim]
Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose AlexanderH
15:01:58 [antoine]
:-)
15:02:05 [antoine]
zakim, pick a victim
15:02:05 [Zakim]
Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose michaelp (muted)
15:02:15 [Zakim]
+marcia
15:02:20 [Zakim]
+jneubert
15:02:48 [jneubert]
jneubert has joined #lld
15:02:50 [marcia]
zakim, mute me
15:02:50 [Zakim]
marcia should now be muted
15:03:09 [emma]
Scribe: Michael
15:03:23 [emma]
scribenick: michaelp
15:03:43 [Asaf]
Asaf has joined #lld
15:04:02 [michaelp]
Topic: Admin
15:04:08 [Zakim]
+??P35
15:04:15 [Asaf]
??P35 is me
15:04:23 [antoine]
zakim, ???P35 is Asaf
15:04:23 [Zakim]
sorry, antoine, I do not recognize a party named '???P35'
15:04:28 [michaelp]
Emma: Acceptance of minutes of previous telecon.
15:04:31 [antoine]
zakim, ??P35 is Asaf
15:04:31 [Zakim]
+Asaf; got it
15:04:34 [michaelp]
... Objections?
15:04:47 [michaelp]
... Munites accepted.
15:04:56 [michaelp]
s/Munites/Minutes
15:04:56 [antoine]
s/Munites/Minutes
15:05:14 [michaelp]
http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/01/13-lld-minutes.html
15:05:18 [michaelp]
--RESOLVED
15:05:45 [michaelp]
RESOLVED: http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/01/13-lld-minutes.html
15:06:05 [michaelp]
Emma: Special conference for people from Asia timezones
15:07:06 [Zakim]
+[LC]
15:07:09 [edsu]
zakim, LC is edsu
15:07:09 [Zakim]
+edsu; got it
15:07:22 [michaelp]
TomB: Problems with audio, timezones. Schedule extra teleconference that is well-scribed.
15:07:39 [michaelp]
Scribenick: michaelp
15:07:51 [michaelp]
Scribe: michaelp
15:08:35 [kcoyle]
what time would work?
15:08:42 [michaelp]
TomB: We have to make sure that UC of this group are not rejected just because of time zones and geography.
15:09:52 [Zakim]
+??P45
15:10:00 [digikim]
Zakim, P45 is digikim.
15:10:00 [Zakim]
sorry, digikim, I do not recognize a party named 'P45'
15:10:05 [digikim]
Zakim, ??P45 is digikim.
15:10:05 [Zakim]
+digikim; got it
15:10:06 [antoine]
zakim, ??P45 is digikim
15:10:06 [Zakim]
I already had ??P45 as digikim, antoine
15:10:18 [michaelp]
... We will figure out a time.
15:10:42 [michaelp]
Topic: USE CASE CLUSTERS
15:10:52 [michaelp]
Topic: CLUSTER Bibliographic data: curators Gordon, Martin
15:10:52 [michaelp]
http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Cluster_BibData
15:11:17 [michaelp]
GordonD: Cluster is pretty well finished.
15:11:50 [michaelp]
... We added an extra UC on migration of legacy library data. That may add some extra work, however.
15:12:30 [michaelp]
... Question?
15:12:40 [michaelp]
s/Question/Questions
15:12:52 [michaelp]
Emma: Could you highlight main issues?
15:13:16 [Asaf]
Question: Do we expect any impact by this group's work on the work of the FR* and RDA groups?
15:13:29 [michaelp]
GordonD: Two main issues. Firstly, unit of processing is bibliographic record in library environment.
15:13:51 [michaelp]
... Every attribute in a record requires change for local use.
15:14:20 [Asaf]
s/attribute/change in an attribute
15:14:21 [michaelp]
... Causes duplicated data, which is problematic for triple migration.
15:14:31 [michaelp]
... Creates identical triples.
15:14:42 [Asaf]
s/change for/duplication of the entire record for
15:15:06 [TomB]
q+ to ask about levels between statement and record, e.g., WEMI
15:15:26 [michaelp]
... But main issue is still shift from record to triples.
15:16:08 [Asaf]
GordonD: Thanks! That's very encouraging!
15:16:21 [michaelp]
... The UC clustering has been valuable with regards to the FR* and RDA groups.
15:16:23 [emma]
ack Tom
15:16:23 [Zakim]
TomB, you wanted to ask about levels between statement and record, e.g., WEMI
15:16:26 [antoine]
q+ to ask about record issue in "problem and limitations"
15:17:07 [michaelp]
TomB: What about intermediate levels between records and statements, like aggregations like FRBR entities?
15:17:45 [michaelp]
GordonD: Records is aggregation of statements, whether work, expression, ..., records.
15:18:16 [michaelp]
... Traditionally, we have been looking at aggregations. LLD challenges this assumptions by looking at statements on their own.
15:18:19 [emma]
http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Granularity_of_library_metadata
15:19:28 [michaelp]
... Granularity is not downwards from single resource, but goes up from aggregations, etc., themselves.
15:20:24 [michaelp]
... Aggregations like collections, series. Levels of granularity of these is often mixed up by libraries.
15:20:28 [emma]
ack ant
15:20:28 [Zakim]
antoine, you wanted to ask about record issue in "problem and limitations"
15:21:00 [michaelp]
Antoine: Granularity important issue for data conversion.
15:21:22 [michaelp]
... We should but reference to this from cluster page.
15:22:25 [michaelp]
... Other issue: Relevant technologies. Case about de-duplication. Single case or are there more like this?
15:22:43 [michaelp]
GordonD: This came up in more than this UC.
15:23:25 [jeff_]
q+ to consider owl sameAs as a factor in granularity
15:23:37 [emma]
ack jeff
15:23:38 [Zakim]
jeff_, you wanted to consider owl sameAs as a factor in granularity
15:24:03 [michaelp]
Jeff: owl:sameAs and levels of granularity.
15:24:29 [michaelp]
... It would be nice to pull resources together, but this issue makes it difficult.
15:25:00 [michaelp]
... We have numbers of documents that contain triples. It is useful to be able to relate those without lining raw triples.
15:25:13 [michaelp]
s/lining/linking
15:25:40 [michaelp]
... Information can be spread across multiple records, but refer to the same thing.
15:26:25 [michaelp]
... It would be nice if triples could be pulled together into a unified record.
15:26:36 [michaelp]
GordonD: I see a number of problems.
15:27:07 [michaelp]
... We shift focus to the triple, then we build aggregations of triples that suit the needs of an organization.
15:28:15 [michaelp]
... This gives us a great deal of flexibility in rebuilding records.
15:28:17 [TomB]
Gordon: we shift attn to triple, then build up aggregations. So if you want MARC-like view, you have an application profile - what attributes need to be part of the profile? Flexibility in building records - my last slide in presentn on "disintegration of the record".
15:28:18 [marcia]
q+
15:28:38 [michaelp]
... The same triple can appear in many different "record" structures.
15:28:43 [jeff_]
zakim, mute me
15:28:43 [Zakim]
jeff_ should now be muted
15:29:07 [kcoyle]
:-)
15:29:34 [michaelp]
... Aggregations can produce conflicts as they are built at will.
15:29:54 [michaelp]
... Conflicting statements, missing data.
15:30:06 [emma]
ack marcia
15:30:10 [michaelp]
... because missing or present owl:sameAs
15:30:35 [michaelp]
s/because/because of/
15:30:57 [michaelp]
marcia: We have a project where multiple databases have to be aggregated.
15:31:37 [michaelp]
... People have more then one option in terms of vocab selection.
15:31:46 [TomB]
Is Gordon referring to http://gordondunsire.com/pubs/pres/EvolCatRec.ppt (for "disintegration of the record")?
15:32:11 [michaelp]
... Individual statements become the elements.
15:32:55 [jeff_]
OWL provides mechanisms for reconciling equivalent/sub classes across vocabularies.
15:33:43 [michaelp]
GordonD: Mapping of properties will become feature of specific namespaces (vocabs)
15:34:11 [TomB]
Gordon: Developing environment will have FRBR, ISBD, and RDA elements in parallel - people will have a choice which to use. Mappings need to be part of those namespaces. Who does the mapping? If that isn't done, we have a third layer of complexity - subjects may have URIs but are sameAs - same with predicates and objects.
15:35:04 [michaelp]
... If namespaces are semantically linked, it gives users free choice which to ise.
15:35:09 [michaelp]
s/ise/use.
15:35:57 [TomB]
...Application Profiles are important because they specify which namespace elements taken from. Concern about unresolved debate about APs versus OWL.
15:36:00 [michaelp]
... The profile will say which namespace the element is taken from, but there is the unresolved debate in terms of DC application profiles and their relationship to OWL.
15:36:16 [marcia]
Zakim, mute me
15:36:16 [Zakim]
marcia should now be muted
15:37:03 [Zakim]
-jeff_
15:37:21 [michaelp]
CTION: Gordon and Martin to curate bibliographic data cluster for end of December [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/23-lld-minutes.html#action05]
15:37:26 [michaelp]
-- continues
15:37:31 [antoine]
s/CTION/ACTION
15:37:39 [Zakim]
+michaelp.a
15:37:44 [michaelp]
ACTION: Gordon and Martin to curate bibliographic data cluster for end of December [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/23-lld-minutes.html#action05]
15:37:46 [jeff_]
zakim, michaelp.a is me
15:37:46 [Zakim]
+jeff_; got it
15:37:51 [michaelp]
--continues
15:38:47 [michaelp]
ACTION: Gordon and Martin to curate bibliographic data cluster for end of December [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/23-lld-minutes.html#action05]
15:38:54 [michaelp]
--continues
15:39:51 [michaelp]
Trying to find the Action, sorry
15:40:05 [michaelp]
ACTION: Gordon and Ross to review use cases in light of migration of legacy data [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/01/13-lld-minutes.html#action01]
15:40:07 [michaelp]
--done
15:40:41 [GordonD]
Tom, yes
15:41:20 [emma]
http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Use_Case_Migrating_Library_Legacy_Data
15:42:10 [michaelp]
emma: I wanted to mention the new social uses cluster.
15:42:20 [michaelp]
... They will have a call for UCs.
15:42:59 [michaelp]
TOPIC: PAGES RELATED TO USE CASES
15:43:14 [michaelp]
TOPIC: -- Terminology: "value vocabulary; metadata element set, and dataset"
15:43:14 [michaelp]
http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/wiki/Library_terminology_informally_explained#Vocabularies.2C_Element_sets.2C_Datasets
15:43:25 [markva]
zakim, unute me
15:43:25 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'unute me', markva
15:43:29 [emma]
ack markva
15:43:36 [michaelp]
Emma: Mark, would you like to report?
15:44:01 [michaelp]
markva: Feedback on mailing list was good.
15:44:07 [michaelp]
... We are on a good path.
15:44:09 [antoine]
+1
15:44:44 [Asaf]
Dispersing some of the fog around the terminology was very, very important. It would be very important for the readers of our final report, too. Mark++!
15:44:51 [markva]
:-)
15:44:57 [michaelp]
ACTION: Mark and Emmanuelle to clean definition of value vocabulary and use of attribute [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/01/06-lld-minutes.html#action02]
15:44:57 [michaelp]
--> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/wiki/Library_terminology_informally_explained#Vocabularies.2C_Element_sets.2C_Datasets
15:45:02 [michaelp]
--done
15:45:52 [markva]
zakim, mute me
15:45:52 [Zakim]
markva should now be muted
15:45:57 [antoine]
I think almost everyone in the XG participated that discussion :-)
15:46:37 [michaelp]
ACTION: Alex, Jeff, Martin, MichaelP elaborate on general purpose IT architecture for dealing with linked data with caching feature (short sketch for final report) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/24-lld-minutes.html#action04]
15:46:41 [michaelp]
--continues
15:46:44 [Asaf]
antoine: sure! I commended Mark for undertaking to synthesize and process all the input.
15:46:46 [jeff_]
zakim, unmute me
15:46:46 [Zakim]
jeff_ was not muted, jeff_
15:47:00 [jeff_]
zakim, mute me
15:47:00 [Zakim]
jeff_ should now be muted
15:47:23 [antoine]
http://ckan.net/group/lld -> good progress there!
15:47:23 [michaelp]
ACTION: Volunteers to send login information (openid credentials) to William Waite to curate LLD group on CKAN [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/11/25-lld-minutes.html#action04]
15:47:29 [michaelp]
--continues
15:47:49 [michaelp]
ACTION: Everyone to update the Events page (http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/wiki/LLD/Events) on the wiki regularly [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/24-lld-minutes.html#action05]
15:47:55 [michaelp]
--continues
15:48:03 [michaelp]
Emma: Don't forget to add to that page.
15:48:52 [antoine]
http://www.w3.org/Submission/CBD/
15:49:22 [michaelp]
Antoine: I just wanted to mention the issue of bounding statements for releasing linked data.
15:50:04 [kcoyle]
interesting
15:50:09 [markva]
q+
15:50:12 [michaelp]
... Goal is to create an "optimal unit of specific knowledge about that resource to be utilized"
15:50:17 [edsu]
antoine: thanks, hadn't seen that before
15:50:19 [emma]
ack mark
15:50:47 [michaelp]
Mark: I know about that spec. I used it in WordNet release.
15:51:20 [michaelp]
... CBD connects statements about a topic, skipping blank nodes.
15:51:39 [michaelp]
s/topic/subject
15:51:48 [jeff_]
q+ SKOS/foaf:focus could help with record bounding
15:52:02 [michaelp]
... Triples that have the same URI as subject. Very simple and algorithmic,.
15:52:07 [Asaf]
This was mentioned (without knowing about CBD) in our mailing list discussion, right?
15:52:09 [michaelp]
s/,./.
15:52:13 [jeff_]
q+ SKOS/foaf:focus and "records"
15:52:52 [michaelp]
edsu: Will that increase traffic to do something useful with the data?
15:53:24 [michaelp]
... More roundtrips required to resolve other connected URIs.
15:53:40 [michaelp]
markva: Depends on the application and your goals.
15:53:52 [michaelp]
edsu: Human readable display, for example.
15:54:09 [michaelp]
... You would have to do a number of further lookups.
15:54:22 [michaelp]
q+
15:54:49 [jeff_]
zakim, unmute me
15:54:49 [Zakim]
jeff_ should no longer be muted
15:54:50 [emma]
ack jeff
15:54:57 [michaelp]
markva: In WordNet case, you don't want to get the whole thing.
15:55:36 [michaelp]
Jeff: GordonD was talking about synchronizing info from different sources. There is a UC for foaf:focus and SKOS.
15:56:12 [michaelp]
... Even if you do the inferencing on the real world object, foaf: focus would help to trace back the origin of these statements.
15:56:47 [emma]
ack micha
15:56:54 [emma]
ack sk
15:57:17 [antoine]
Michaelp: perhaps this is a provenance issue
15:57:25 [antoine]
... how you keep stuff together
15:57:43 [jeff_]
zakim, mute m
15:57:43 [Zakim]
'm' is ambiguous, jeff_
15:57:48 [jeff_]
zakim, mute me
15:57:48 [Zakim]
jeff_ should now be muted
15:58:00 [antoine]
... How much data you send back is a very interesting engineering issue
15:58:20 [antoine]
... It somehow dilutes the identifier
15:58:42 [antoine]
... it may suddenly become much more when you get more info for it than what you'd expect
15:59:06 [antoine]
Emma: there are lots of ways to define what is useful for a URI
15:59:11 [edsu]
"useful" is usefully vague imho :-)
15:59:20 [antoine]
Michaelp: that relates to SPARQL DESCRIBE
15:59:50 [antoine]
... It may become really complex if you have a bunch of unconnected identifiers
16:00:04 [Asaf]
edsu++
16:00:13 [marcia]
good discussions!
16:00:19 [Asaf]
bye everyone!
16:00:19 [Zakim]
-edsu
16:00:23 [Zakim]
-kefo
16:00:23 [markva]
bye!
16:00:23 [antoine]
zakim, please list attendees
16:00:24 [Zakim]
As of this point the attendees have been TomB, jeff_, antoine, emma, kefo, kcoyle, AlexanderH, markva, michaelp, GordonD, marcia, jneubert, Asaf, edsu, digikim
16:00:26 [emma]
rrsagent please draft minutes
16:00:27 [Zakim]
-kcoyle
16:00:27 [Zakim]
-GordonD
16:00:29 [Zakim]
-Asaf
16:00:31 [Zakim]
-jeff_
16:00:33 [Zakim]
-markva
16:00:35 [Zakim]
-AlexanderH
16:00:37 [Zakim]
-digikim
16:00:40 [Zakim]
-jneubert
16:00:55 [Zakim]
-marcia
16:01:01 [emma]
rrsagent please draft minutes
16:01:19 [emma]
rrsagent, please draft minutes
16:01:19 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/01/20-lld-minutes.html emma
16:03:43 [Zakim]
-emma
16:03:46 [Zakim]
-TomB
16:03:48 [Zakim]
-michaelp
16:03:48 [Zakim]
INC_LLDXG()10:00AM has ended
16:03:49 [Zakim]
Attendees were TomB, jeff_, antoine, emma, kefo, kcoyle, AlexanderH, markva, michaelp, GordonD, marcia, jneubert, Asaf, edsu, digikim
16:04:02 [emma]
zakim, bye
16:04:02 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #lld
16:04:14 [emma]
rrsagent, bye
16:04:14 [RRSAgent]
I see 7 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2011/01/20-lld-actions.rdf :
16:04:14 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Gordon and Martin to curate bibliographic data cluster for end of December [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/23-lld-minutes.html#action05] [1]
16:04:14 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/01/20-lld-irc#T15-37-44
16:04:14 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Gordon and Martin to curate bibliographic data cluster for end of December [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/23-lld-minutes.html#action05] [2]
16:04:14 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/01/20-lld-irc#T15-38-47
16:04:14 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Gordon and Ross to review use cases in light of migration of legacy data [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/01/13-lld-minutes.html#action01] [3]
16:04:14 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/01/20-lld-irc#T15-40-05
16:04:14 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Mark and Emmanuelle to clean definition of value vocabulary and use of attribute [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/01/06-lld-minutes.html#action02] [4]
16:04:14 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/01/20-lld-irc#T15-44-57
16:04:14 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Alex, Jeff, Martin, MichaelP elaborate on general purpose IT architecture for dealing with linked data with caching feature (short sketch for final report) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/24-lld-minutes.html#action04] [5]
16:04:14 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/01/20-lld-irc#T15-46-37
16:04:14 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Volunteers to send login information (openid credentials) to William Waite to curate LLD group on CKAN [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/11/25-lld-minutes.html#action04] [6]
16:04:14 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/01/20-lld-irc#T15-47-23-1
16:04:14 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Everyone to update the Events page (http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/wiki/LLD/Events) on the wiki regularly [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/24-lld-minutes.html#action05] [7]
16:04:14 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/01/20-lld-irc#T15-47-49